Impossible Gear-Shift Speed On Arcade!

[Beatboy]

I like the G25 users making out they're at a disadvantage using the wheel with nonsense comments about the learning curves and missing gears. Here's the reality. From what I have seen with the wheel, the car accelerates significantly faster in a straight line. It's so obvious from the replay. In time trial mode this is a MASSIVE advantage. Fact.

Don't you think it would be wise to change your perspective from observer to user? I'd recommend you sit behind the wheel before passing anything as fact

From Experience (FE): out of the box, the controller is much easier to use - you can go from lock to lock in a heartbeat and you can control the whole car with just your thumbs.

FE: The G25 is a 900 deg wheel. Lock to lock takes considerably longer and as such is unforgiving if you miss the apex. Secondly, to operate the G25 with clutch efficiently you need to use all 4 limbs - naturally this takes a LOT of co-ordination and skill to get this right. If you lose your rhythm your lap is ruined. If you skip a gear on the down shift at speed, you may as well select restart.

FE: It takes a LOT of practice to use the G25 effectively, and the reality of the situation is it also takes a LOT more skill. The G25 and sixaxis are like chalk and cheese.

Opinion: If the G25 does give you a bit more acceleration (although i cant confirm if it does), and your skilled enough to actually navigate the track without error (which as above is a lot harder than with sixaxis), then id go as far to say that the boost is well deserved for all the extra effort required!

 

[kart.no.38]

So are we confirming that a G25 gives you better acceleration?!

Thats insane IMO

 

[BreakerOhio]

Opinion: If the G25 does give you a bit more acceleration (although i cant confirm if it does), and your skilled enough to actually navigate the track without error (which as above is a lot harder than with sixaxis), then id go as far to say that the boost is well deserved for all the extra effort required!

I agree. 👍

From my experience: Factors like shift accuracy, braking and downshifting with clutch, corning and thinking how much turn in to give, preparing to shift after cornering are what I see for G25 more prone for error than a sixaxis when trying to generate fast times, let alone the concern that there is an accelleartion shift advantage.

This is not saying using the G25 gives you an advantage in accelleration fact, or saying using this wheel is a disadvantage. This is just describing what is involved when you think that there is such an advantage to using the G25.

I think once you've got the practice in and have the coordination down, the Logitech wheel force feedback is obviously better than a sixaxis and if the game developers want to really simulate this game and encourage gamers to play this realistically, they should reward those that use wheels or clutch.

Imagine for a second if this was a topic about AT verse MT. Which one should have an advantage? I think you'll agree why I support this comment.

 

[hornet_burnout]

(...)if the game developers want to really simulate this game and encourage gamers to play this realistically, they should reward those that use wheels or clutch.

Can't agree when it's the case of real cars having fast sequential gears and that being "removed" in game, because you don't have a wheel...

 

[BreakerOhio]

At the very least the input device should be displayed (along with the other car settings) within the players ranking area in the table. At the most the rankings could be split between the steering wheel and pad users. This way I wouldn't be competing against players it is not possible to beat.

That's a good idea.

 

[GTXLR]

So are we confirming that a G25 gives you better acceleration?!

Thats insane IMO

IMO, the advantage comes from your ability to manage all the controls more precisely.

When you become adept with a wheel and you get to know a car and the way you lap with it with a G25 it, becomes second nature as to when and how much exactly to give the gas, preventing wheelspin, especially coming out of the turns. the added feel from the feedback is something the pad doesnt give you to know when your beginning to slip, and you can react instantaniously and precisely, getting better grip equals better acceleration.
The more precise nature of cornering allows you to balance the car better and carry better speed and weight transition.
Finally manual shifting with clutch is the quickest method to accelerating, using the clutch you can rev higher when you make your change.
This is quicker than, manual h shift no clutch,quicker than sequential, and auto. BUT it takes real skill to be able to pull all those clutch shifts off perfectly at such speed that is required, mistakes are costly, but those prepared to take the risks and put in the practice will reap the rewards of driving this sim as realistically as possible.
The Gate on the G25 is sloppier than you could ever imagine, theres no resistance in the gate, and it is very easy to select wrong gear.

edit: The G25 only has 6 forward gear positions so cars with seven or eight speed boxes wont be able to use the gears above six, the game does not give them six speed transmissions.
Cars like the F430 in the game do have fast sequential boxes, its just that manual overide with clutch gives better control of the shifts, i certainley havent been able to downshift as fast through the box in full manual mode as the sequential (though you do have the luxury in manual mode of dropping 2 or more gears per shift if you so desire). Doing it all manually just means i can put it in my desired rev range. I drive my 430 both ways, online i go sequential but for trialing i go manual for full control.

As for being able to beat or equal times of a wheel with a pad, this is a sim which do you think you should be faster with?

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

I use the pad as do my other friends. However its a shame there isn't separate leaderboards for wheel users and pad users although I imagine this is difficult to implement.

I was going to buy the DFP but have decided to wait until the full release of GT5 before parting with my money.

 

[nasanu]

the sixaxis is a LOT easier to use than the G25

Rubbish. I use a DFP and whenever I try to use the DS3 I am all over the road. It take a lot of time to learn any control method, not just a wheel. Give a non gamer a go with the pad then a go with the wheel. A controler is quite hard at first.

It looks like DFP owners and owners of the new wheel are going to get the worst of both worlds. Slower shifts than G25 owners and slower turning than control pad users.

 

[kart.no.38]

IMO, the advantage comes from your ability to manage all the controls more precisely.

When you become adept with a wheel and you get to know a car and the way you lap with it with a G25 it, becomes second nature as to when and how much exactly to give the gas, preventing wheelspin, especially coming out of the turns. the added feel from the feedback is something the pad doesnt give you to know when your beginning to slip, and you can react instantaniously and precisely, getting better grip equals better acceleration.
The more precise nature of cornering allows you to balance the car better and carry better speed and weight transition.
Finally manual shifting with clutch is the quickest method to accelerating, using the clutch you can rev higher when you make your change.
This is quicker than, manual h shift no clutch,quicker than sequential, and auto. BUT it takes real skill to be able to pull all those clutch shifts off perfectly at such speed that is required, mistakes are costly, but those prepared to take the risks and put in the practice will reap the rewards of driving this sim as realistically as possible.
The Gate on the G25 is sloppier than you could ever imagine, theres no resistance in the gate, and it is very easy to select wrong gear.

edit: The G25 only has 6 forward gear positions so cars with seven or eight speed boxes wont be able to use the gears above six, the game does not give them six speed transmissions.
Cars like the F430 in the game do have fast sequential boxes, its just that manual overide with clutch gives better control of the shifts, i certainley havent been able to downshift as fast through the box in full manual mode as the sequential (though you do have the luxury in manual mode of dropping 2 or more gears per shift if you so desire). Doing it all manually just means i can put it in my desired rev range. I drive my 430 both ways, online i go sequential but for trialing i go manual for full control.

As for being able to beat or equal times of a wheel with a pad, this is a sim which do you think you should be faster with?

Dude I use a wheel. Its just the DFP and not the G25. Just because someone can heal and toe in GT doesn't mean they should 'get rewarded' with a car that accelerates better. The Nissan GTR has a seven speed sequential gearbox... keyword: Sequential. So just because someone is using the H-Shift can't be justification to give an advantage.

When racing a car in real life (I know this because I do it) slipping the clutch on up changes is slower, period. So it's not more realistic either.

The most realistic way of driving a sim is if the car has an H-Shift you use the H-Shift, if it has paddle shift then you use paddle shift.

I hope that what we are saying here is not true because what it means is that if you want to be at the top of the times you have to own a G25... which happens to be quite expensive.

 

[doctor-wilson]

if you want to be at the top of the times you have to own a G25... which happens to be quite expensive.

Exactly, and it makes the rankings obsolete. I havn't bothered playing for quite a few days now and feel there is no longer any point (unless I get a wheel). What a total failing on PD's part. Do they get commision on every G25 sold?

 

[NapoleonMikey]

all this talk about the wheel having the advantage when the controller has an advantage the G25 guys wish they had. with the controller when you down shift it automatically heel-toes for you why i have to manually hit all 3 pedals at the same time and hope i dont press in the brake to hard or let off on accident and end up going for a spin. both devices have its advantages its how you use that advantage is the key.

 

[kart.no.38]

I have recently acquired a G25. The learning curve was a whole 4laps so I am not sure what everyone was referring to regarding the length of time it takes to learn how to drive with one.

Another important point is that there are zero performance advantages when using the G25. I did manage to beat my times and eventually top the PP750 records at London and Eiger but it didn't come from using a different wheel, it came from gear ratios. Point is that even though I have improved the speed of the car considerably on acceleration the user 'petitgris3' is still nailing me in the mid range.

Please could someone compare my replay with his from London. My lap is terrible, I have two massive wall taps but I let it upload to make a point. When you watch both take note of the wheelspin he has in 4th gear.... it is hectic and something which I cannot replicate regardless of ratios. It's like he has 10% more horsepower on the bottom end.

If anyone is willing to put in the effort to analyze both replays I will greatly appreciate it. Corners to note of are exiting turn 1 and exiting the right hander just before Split #2.