improvement

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I really love Gran Turismo 3 but there's a lot of things that I would like to be improve for GT4, like:

-More car company: like volvo (just to name one)
-Less EVO
-More views: like GT2 you had 3 views for driving, GT3 2 views...?!?!
-More european cars: more bmw's, audi, mercedes, jag, peugot, etc...
-I would love to adjust the music & SFX volume
-More visual costimization like stickers & body kits
-Muscle Cars!!!!!
-Online (I know GT4 will have it and I can't wait to play it!!!)
-If had to choose 3 new cars for GT4 they would be:
-McLaren F1 (greatest car ever)
-Audi S6 (like in the movie Ronin.....I think)
-BMW M5
 
Online (I know GT4 will have it and I can't wait to play it!!!)
Click to expand...

Dont Be So sure!

The Online Experience is Currently So Bad, It caused the game to be delayed to an undefined time in 2004.

Expect to see ONline racing Dropped if PD cant improve it significantly.

Racing games online just dont seem feasable to much latency.
How many racers promised online content only to see it dropped.
Even the upcoming WRC3 whose main improvement was to be Online racing...has now dropped the feature.
 
Heres the bottom line: - :trouble:

-More car company: like volvo
Confirmed in the car list on this website... use SEARCH Option?

-Less EVO
U do mean Lancer Evolutions, Gran Turismo isn't quite right without EVO's

-More views: like GT2 you had 3 views for driving, GT3 2 views...?!?!
I have to agree.

-More european cars: more bmw's, audi, mercedes, jag, peugot, etc...
Hopefully there will be, as seen in the testing footage of GT4.

-I would love to adjust the music & SFX volume
PD Could be able to put the option in, MAYBE....

-More visual customization like stickers & body kits
Sorry, but Racing Mods are suuposedly in but no NFS:Underground stuff...

-Muscle Cars!!!!!
They definately are, again, USE the SEARCH option....

-Online (I know GT4 will have it and I can't wait to play it!!!)
Me too!!!

-If had to choose 3 new cars for GT4 they would be:
-McLaren F1 (NO CHANCE, soory but its True.)

-Actually its an Audi S8 Too big and bulky, but could be put in?

-BMW M5
I would love to have this car, it appeared in NFS Hot pursuit 2 so y not GT4!!! Please,Please, PD!!!!

I hope this helped.;)
 
Originally posted by GTXLR
Dont Be So sure!

The Online Experience is Currently So Bad, It caused the game to be delayed to an undefined time in 2004.

Expect to see ONline racing Dropped if PD cant improve it significantly.

Racing games online just dont seem feasable to much latency.
How many racers promised online content only to see it dropped.
Even the upcoming WRC3 whose main improvement was to be Online racing...has now dropped the feature.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:

Racing games online just dont seem feasable to much latency.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:

you dont have a computer do you.

how do you think ppl play first person shooters online? :P
 
i want a ma70 in there a 280z, old skoo 300zx, and i think if u have braodband connection, this game will fine lol and ya u know one of the highest latency games is command and counquer genrals, amazingly enough that games takes a reallly ncie computer adn a at least DSL or Cable
 
how do you think ppl play first person shooters online?
Click to expand...

I never said there was a problem for other types of game, and yes i do have a computer with broadband access and have played many online games with differing levels of enjoyment and success.

My Pc Is not my main gaming device, My Consoles are.

Sony Is looking to build Its own network from scratch for Sony products, software and hardware, for the future of its business.
The PC gaming market is not looking to do any of this, the internet exists and games companies make use of it, games of varying quality come and go.

IMO Racing games will require a much more efficient and constant flow of informaton to provide a smoother gaming experience than a first person shooter,Especially a game of GTs depth of simulation and physics.
(Altough im not a programmer, so if anyone could let me know if that is close to the mark, feel free.)

How Many Descent Online Racers are there?

Also Sonys PS2 networking seems to be causing all sorts of headaches for developers, as promised online games have been dropping their online content like theres no tommorrow.

The difference over PC online gaming is that Sony is Looking to Online for a whole range of media distribution for the fututre success and advancement of its business, and for that it needs its end users to be happy to be online to buy its network adapters and eventually the HD.
Sony Is really looking to games like GT4 to be its must have Killer experience to really expand the Online Component of Its core business, and due to its favorable links and investment with PD Is really relying on GT4 to provide an experience that will make you the punter invest in the technology.

Therefore there is no way that Sony wants a game which according to my information, has been suffering serious glitches, and is a poor example of on line racing/gaming due to severe latency problems being the lead example for its Network units ability.
The Delayed relase date shows how worried they are about it, they are prepared to give Kaz and his team More time to try and work around the latency problems for the online component, Even though It has forced PD into releasing the prologue edition of Gt4 to keep The deal with Logitech out of courtrooms.

Finally you have to wonder what will happen, PD have been frantically rewriting game code to help improve things, (not happy yet).
KY is renowned for only allowing things in GT that he is satisfied with,(and as I understand it Kaz is far from pleased with the online network mode at this time).
So if things cannot be improved significantly, will PD and Sony Risk putting out a merely reasonable online effort, or will they eventually decide to remove the aspect from the game?

Will Sony Have to wait for PS3 with built in online capabilty, to really push the online market?
How much has the Investment in online tec cost so far? Can they wait?

.
 
I used to be a long-time subscriber to Motor City Online before it unfortunately shut down. Awesome game, deep deep deep customization, but the actual racing... not all that great. To have a half-decent race, all 4 people's pings must range in the 90-160 ms area. That was far and few between on there. I've had my share of awesome races in the game, but if you were closing in on 2 other cars, they would start to stutter and not move smoothly. Very upsetting. The games physics were no match to Gran Turismos obviously, but good enough to keep me a daily player.

EDIT: I wish Gran Turismo was as easy to set up a LAN for as Halo is. And even if it was, because you can't modify your cars, its useless as tits on a bull.
 
IMO Racing games will require a much more efficient and constant flow of informaton to provide a smoother gaming experience than a first person shooter,Especially a game of GTs depth of simulation and physics.
(Altough im not a programmer, so if anyone could let me know if that is close to the mark, feel free.)

. [/B][/QUOTE]

I see what you mean, with racing games espe where every movment is important the game would need to run smooth all of the time, if your halfway round a corner and the game starts to jump you gonna crash and depending on oposition your race is over and all that due to latency, it would kill the enjoyment, in a FPS shooter it's less of a problem because you can just wait a couple of seconds till it stops, it gu killed somtimes but it's generaly less annoying in a game like that.
 
TOCA/DTM/V8/PRO Race Driver for PC isn't bad online if you go on a low ping server. Occasionally your opponents do jerk abit though (But this is still perfectly playable). Live For Speed too is also good online.

PD ought to be able to do it since all PS2s should be using the same hardware so theres less incompatibilities to worry about.

Many games seem to work so if you lag out for a sec, you don't crash but simply don't update to the server (Opponents may jerk). When your connection stabilises you then update the server and continue as before.
 
Just to say something on this matter.

In the interview I held with mr. Yamauchi one month ago, during the PlayStation Experience event, I had to ask him about the online problems they've been facing during the E3 game demonstration. Those problems were highlited by all the journalists, and no mmatter how everybody was amased by the game, online problems were mentioned all the time.

I asked him will they be able to succesfully cope with that problem, and first thing he said is "No."

Further explanation was something like this: "We will never be able to solve this problem in total, not on this hardware and not on broadband standards we currentlly have. The online (network) latency we are facing is something that we were awere from the very beggining, but we didn't think it'll become such a problem. I'm very sorry that we just can't find a way to solve this, but me and my people are trying to do so, with all the help we can get from Sony. But only thing we can do right now is to make this problem less noticable because it just can't be solved right now".

During the PSE event, all the official press-materials from Sony clamied that GT4 is out in fourth quarter od 2003. Just one week later game was delayed to 2004.

I'm not sure would I agree or not with GTXLR but I have to share the oppinion that online component could even be dropped out of the final code if the problems couldn't be solved in some time. Maybe PD will have to find some other way to make GT4 online compatible beside actual racing, just because Sony is demanding online components in all their major releases from july of this year.

Opportunity to further promote online capabilities of PS2 can't be missed, not with such as important game to the whole company, as GT4 deffinately is.

And one of the things that worries me the most is not online, but network: GT3 was the only game that had iLink capabilities implemented in serious way. As the 6 player racing in iLink was extremly hardware-demanding feature, and due to idea to have people racing only on new-established online racnig leagues, there was rumour the GT4 won't be iLink compatible.

I was partially settled down wwhen I saw GT4 on the list of Sony's network games, but does that mean iLink, I still don't know. Especially after the release of the new console model worldwide - SCPH 50000 - which even does not have an iLink (firewire) port for newtwork conecctivity via iLink.

Questions, questions...
 
Well,after reading this,my opinion is that GT4 is not the game for online racing(they just dont seem ready yet)I think PD & Sony should wait until PS3 to get it right.And whose to say they can do that.Yep in my opinion scrap the online racing and consentrate on Cars,Tracks,Details,Graphics and blow everyone away (again).
My Two Cents...
 
I think they should still do their best with the current hardwear and release it with online. Sure it won't be perfect and it will have problems, but at least it will be a MAJOR step forward from GT1, 2 and 3. AI can be very good, but it will never be like racing against humans.

Hopefully they might just be able to get off a basic online version on Prologue and get feedback from the online capabilities of GT4 and what needs improving on that aspect for the final release.
 
Originally posted by GTXLR

Will Sony Have to wait for PS3 with built in online capabilty, to really push the online market?
How much has the Investment in online tec cost so far? Can they wait?

.
Click to expand...

No, Automodelista's 8player online races were fine, lag free %95 of the time. Midnight Club2's 8pl online mode was near flawless. Other online games have been great aswell. Guess what there wil be as many PS2 online games(thank you EA)as XBL before Spring. Thats XBL games that actually have online play not just content downloads. The push is the software. Killzone for PS2 could be the that #1 seller if GT4 fails with online.
 
Originally posted by amar212
Just to say something on this matter.

In the interview I held with mr. Yamauchi one month ago, during the PlayStation Experience event, I had to ask him about the online problems they've been facing during the E3 game demonstration. Those problems were highlited by all the journalists, and no mmatter how everybody was amased by the game, online problems were mentioned all the time.

I asked him will they be able to succesfully cope with that problem, and first thing he said is "No."

Further explanation was something like this: "We will never be able to solve this problem in total, not on this hardware and not on broadband standards we currentlly have. The online (network) latency we are facing is something that we were awere from the very beggining, but we didn't think it'll become such a problem. I'm very sorry that we just can't find a way to solve this, but me and my people are trying to do so, with all the help we can get from Sony. But only thing we can do right now is to make this problem less noticable because it just can't be solved right now".

During the PSE event, all the official press-materials from Sony clamied that GT4 is out in fourth quarter od 2003. Just one week later game was delayed to 2004.

I'm not sure would I agree or not with GTXLR but I have to share the oppinion that online component could even be dropped out of the final code if the problems couldn't be solved in some time. Maybe PD will have to find some other way to make GT4 online compatible beside actual racing, just because Sony is demanding online components in all their major releases from july of this year.

Opportunity to further promote online capabilities of PS2 can't be missed, not with such as important game to the whole company, as GT4 deffinately is.

And one of the things that worries me the most is not online, but network: GT3 was the only game that had iLink capabilities implemented in serious way. As the 6 player racing in iLink was extremly hardware-demanding feature, and due to idea to have people racing only on new-established online racnig leagues, there was rumour the GT4 won't be iLink compatible.

I was partially settled down wwhen I saw GT4 on the list of Sony's network games, but does that mean iLink, I still don't know. Especially after the release of the new console model worldwide - SCPH 50000 - which even does not have an iLink (firewire) port for newtwork conecctivity via iLink.

Questions, questions...
Click to expand...


oh.. so you interviewed, president of PD?

Who are you and what "site or magazine" do you work for?

With your grammer and spelling skills, and information provided, it is very difficult to take your "article" seriously. :rolleyes:
 
He did interview him, he posted his questions and answers on granturismo.com (his name is deus there)

He usually has the latest info on GT4 on those boards
 
:mad:
silver Pyo:banghead:
And who are you?

In defence of Amars grammar and spelling.....just read his sig and it might explain something to you!

I trust his information, its very close to what im hearing from my own trusted sources.
And Im not revealing those to you either.

With your arrogant, blazee attitude to peoples comments, why should we take you seriously.


Note to La bounti.
Maybe things are different in the States, but online users for PS2 are very low in europe at this time, games are always promising online support and failing to deliver, im not sure Sony can manage to be succesfull with online PS2 in europe, broadband is not as common(although it is improving), So they really need Top level games for it to succeed, and forgive me but Automodelista(which didnt make it online in europe) and MC2 were hardly massive hits and will be very simplistic compared to the complex GT4 engine.
Some Games may well make it Online in europe, But Sony Needs quality to get more interest in Online network in europe.

Unfortunately, the lack of demand in europe, means we often get left behind with content.
Rumour has it that RE breakout, May well loose its online player mode in the european release, even though the game was designed to be played online.

P.S come on Kenji hurry up, so I can get back to the home of GT!
 
silverpuyo, amar212 is a professional please give a little respect. If it wasn't for him we wouldn't have known some things we do now. I remember perfectly that when he published Kazunori's interview lot's of things that were just speculation became facts.

Keep up the good work amar212 :)
 
GTXLR.. Ok your views are from a european perspective. Midnight Club 2 is a hit in the US and has sold Network adapters. If you were refering to racing games in general, I'd say its still untested. as dynamic as GT4 could be, online would be a massive achivement. But not many online racing games are planed from what I've seen :(. Automodelista could have been great with a few more months of development to imporve/add things. Broadband is pretty much commen in the US. Why is europe so slow to expand broadband ?


Edit: Would 1 on 1 peer to peer be acceptable? Something is better then nothing I guess.
 
ah, I see.

well, amar , if you were offended by my comments, I appolgize.

with all the "rumors" out there, I try to take all the information with caution.
 
Originally posted by M_and_M
I really love Gran Turismo 3 but there's a lot of things that I would like to be improve for GT4, like:

-More car company: like volvo (just to name one)
-Less EVO
-More views: like GT2 you had 3 views for driving, GT3 2 views...?!?!
-More european cars: more bmw's, audi, mercedes, jag, peugot, etc...
-I would love to adjust the music & SFX volume
-More visual costimization like stickers & body kits
-Muscle Cars!!!!!
-Online (I know GT4 will have it and I can't wait to play it!!!)
-If had to choose 3 new cars for GT4 they would be:
-McLaren F1 (greatest car ever)
-Audi S6 (like in the movie Ronin.....I think)
-BMW M5
Click to expand...

the S6? they will put the RS6 tho. They'll prolly put the M5, but not the mclaren.
 
am i the only one who really doesn't care about playing GT4 online, it doesn't matter to me, i'd rather have them do other thing to tweak the game, i couldn't care less about the online content!:banghead:

don't be offended, this is just my opinion:rolleyes:
 
Some Games may well make it Online in europe, But Sony Needs quality to get more interest in Online network in europe.
Click to expand...

GT.

Why are you not interested in GT Online?
The Extra depth in the gameply would be huge if it works.

Is it because in Europe we havent had a big push to get PS2 Online, & Broadband is not the norm and is quite expensive.

If so, This is the Dilema I was talking about in my earlier post Europe is not yet geared up to go online (sure the Techs will, but not the masses) , and Sony is going to need some serious AAA games with superb online content to garner enough interest in the european market.

In the mean time developers keep dropping online content in Euroreleases because the costs far outway the small potential sales.
 
Unfortunatly, the problem is a little big bigger then this (I always come to ruin the party):

- GT4 should go out - and that plan still stands I think - as a worldwide release in the same time. Two reasons for that:

1) In that way PD is makin sure that there'll be no differnencies between the versions which is very important for online racing, and

2) Sony can make advertising and promotional plans trough worldwide campaign much effective, better targeted and even cheaper.

Both NTSC and PAL codes were shown (together with mp/h and km/h dials) and it goes in behalf of written above.

Now comes the first "Catch 22":

- if the game is going to have a simultanious worldwide release, that means that online component should be made effective for all 3 territories (USA, Japanese and EUR) in the same time and from very beggining. Problem is not the differencies between broadband standards - I highly doubt that Sony was ever concerning to provide online racing for all 3 territories because lag would be enormuos - but European total mayhem in field of broadband compatibility. Every country in Europe (with Sony's online support) has it's own providers which have contract with Sony to provide some Internet spped connection for online gaming. That's different for every country and it sucks big time, and it sucks brains out of Sony's PS2 online planners right now.

Second "Catch 22":

- some kind of online component must be in the game because all the devolopers and publishers have a "small letter print" on PS2 publishing contracts which determines that all new games must have some kind of online component, espeecially those famous "AAA" games in which GT4 certanly is.


Third "Catch 22":

- My bigget concern goes to behalf of mr. Yamauchi himself. If he's not pleased with worldwide support for his game - and enormuos time, money and effort was made its way into GT4 - I think he'll be first who'll say "no" to online racing. But if Sony persist in onlline - and problems the game is facing couldn't be solved - guess everything can happen.

I don't want to specify anything particullar with those "Catches", they're here just to present some of the aspects from bussines side of the GT4 online matter.

But in conclusion it comes that not even the broadband standards sre so important: it comes to that PS2 just can't cope with GT's graphic, sound and physical engine in online mode. In both E3 and PSXE (USA and Europe) game was suffering from conectivity problems. On PSXE they even had to disconnect GT4 6-people online racing mode in Network booth because game just didn't work and visitors could just play it offline. In the same time, Resident Evil Outbreak was working, but it was far from perfect (only game I saw that was working good in online mode was Syphon Filter). GT4 is probablly just too demanding for online: sending the data form console to console, letting consoles calculate them and presents them in real time without serious problems, together will all the responds from all the players in the same timeand without single flaw - which is a first priority and dogma for Yamauchi - is a serious task for a much serius harware then one of PS2.

But I still hope I'm wrong and I hope that all I've said is nonscence and that in final we'll get a game that will run, and run and run and run... and to Silverpuyo: no hard feelings man.
 
Originally posted by amar212
But in conclusion it comes that not even the broadband standards sre so important: it comes to that PS2 just can't cope with GT's graphic, sound and physical engine in online mode. In both E3 and PSXE (USA and Europe) game was suffering from conectivity problems. On PSXE they even had to disconnect GT4 6-people online racing mode in Network booth because game just didn't work and visitors could just play it offline. In the same time, Resident Evil Outbreak was working, but it was far from perfect (only game I saw that was working good in online mode was Syphon Filter). GT4 is probablly just too demanding for online: sending the data form console to console, letting consoles calculate them and presents them in real time without serious problems, together will all the responds from all the players in the same timeand without single flaw - which is a first priority and dogma for Yamauchi - is a serious task for a much serius harware then one of PS2.
Click to expand...

Yea, I too think that the engines are FAR too complex for GT4 to have an online mode. In my opinion the way to fix it, is to simplify the physics in online play (maybe to the point of GT3), but even that might not be enough. Time will tell everything.
 
Maybe we willll end up loading and downloading, ghost laps, lap records and replays, as the online content.
I sure hope they can improve the situation cause that really would be a dissapointment.

P.S the extra problem of getting european PS2(at least as far as UK is concerned) gamers online to broadband, is that the network adapter requires an erthernet Modem.
Where as if like me you already have Broadband and had paid your provider for the modem, or as a new user, do so in the future (which will be the majority), they generally supply a USB modem which is not connectable to the network adapter, so you would also have to purchase and set up another (erthernet) modem.
That is unless you subscribe Via a Cable provider, who already use Ethernet connection.

All this would be very confusing To those less knowledgable, and im afraid will put many off.
 
Originally posted by GTXLR
Maybe we willll end up loading and downloading, ghost laps, lap records and replays, as the online content.
I sure hope they can improve the situation cause that really would be a dissapointment.
Click to expand...

That would be horrible, I would rather they just reduce the # of people who can race (I would even settle for 2-player online).
 
That would be horrible, I would rather they just reduce the # of people who can race (I would even settle for 2-player online).
Click to expand...

That could be a possibility, I suppose.
A 2 player online Mode probably with out Any AI cars!
 
All this waiting and delays with Europe online plans and game releases really pissed me off last year, which forced me to get a NA PS2. Luckily I was in a broadband area, (v.lucky as a friend nearby is just out of an area I think) and it's pretty funny seeing how late online games come over here (even Tiger Woods latest isn't online here :rolleyes: )

Anyways, sorry for that OT rant.... deus, I too hope your wrong :D but you made so many good points there that it's hard to ignore, and now I think everyone can see how the later 2004 date is justified.
 
im not even going to play online becase i dont have a good computer but what pd should do is put out a version that dosent include online play. that way it would be out eariler
 
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