Insurance Question (UK) - Solved, Now Discussing My Progress.

Dragonistic

Dragonistic

5,677
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Dragonistic
Ok so here's the scenario, I'm turning 18 in september and shortly after will be receiving a large amount of money from inheritance, roughly £5000 give or take. So I'm looking to buy a bike and do a full bike test, limiting me to 33bhp for the first 2 years (< correct?). To the point, if i were to buy a large bike, for example a GSXR 600 and limit it to 33bhp, how would i be insured? Would my insurance be sky high because its a 600 or will it be average because its limited to 33bhp?

Note: I will also have 2 years no claims by the point i buy a bike from a 50CC any estimates or recomendations on bikes to buy (road bikes rather then motorcross style or otherwise) would be good.
I've asked around but no-ones been very helpful so far, so i hoped you GTPers could sort this out for me.
 
You're going to be 18. Insurance companies will screw you whatever. :rolleyes:

You would need an A2 licence:
A2 "Standard Motorcycle" Is, by law 25kW / 33 Bhp & Power/Weight ratio below 16kW/kg, age
17 or over and you need :-
A provisional Motorcycle entitlement
A CBT certificate (unless you've already passed a moped or A1 test, see above)
Then ride with "L" plates on machines up to 125cc and up to 11 kW only,
Pass Theory Test (unless you've already passed moped or A1 test, see above)
Pass your test on a machine between 120 & 125 cc, capable of at least 62 mph.
Ride without "L" plates and carry a pillion passenger on any bike but you are restricted to a 33 Bhp machine for 2 years; after that, you're free to ride any bike, there's no re-test.
Click to expand...

So yes, you're limited to 33bhp for the first two years.
 
Ok, so i got that right, but will i be penalised for owning a larger bike (should i buy one) or will my insurance be reasonable as the bike would be within the limits allows, or will i have much higher insurance because of the type of bike (like my example) despite its 33bhp restriction kit?

I knew i'd already get a big insurance bill regardless but my main question is whether it will be vastly increased because of the bike i purchase even though i will be under the legal limits for my age.

I did my research into the tests and knew what i had to do CBT and test wise, just the insurance thats bogging me down with the restricter kits and so on.

I'm not the type who's trying to get a large bike to show off or whatever, but I figured it easier i get a nice comfy road bike that i can keep after my first 2 years to keep me going through Uni, rather then buy a smaller bike now then have to sell that and buy another bike later on.
 
I purposefully didn't comment on the relative insurance costs of a restricted 600 and a 125, because I'd just be hypothesising, and you'd do better to go to a web site like moneysupermarket, and run some comparison quotes (hint: use @example.com as your e-mail to avoid getting spammed by the quoters). I would be surprised if a restricted 600 wasn't more expensive to insure based on its cost, potential and desirability to thieves.

If I were in your place, I'd look for a 125 at around a grand, and trouser the other 4. Spend time on learning the art of riding well, and also learn to maintain your bike. Then, after 2 years, sell the 125 and get a 600. If you buy wisely, you shouldn't lose more than £100 on the 125.
 
Forgot to note i'm also in a very very low risk area, I do realise it will be more expensive, but i could do with rough estimates. I'll check on comparison sites though, thanks for the info :)

Problem with websites is they often don't recognise the restricter and just treat it by the bike model engine size etc.
 
I know nothing of British rules and regulations regarding bikes and insurance, but you'd still be better off buying a basic bike that doesn't need to be restricted to meet the power limit, and holding on to the cash. Starter bikes here go through several owners before they're really not useful any more, I would think the same would apply on your side of the water.

It may not be as desirable, but get a basic bike, put the miles on it and stay out of trouble. Sell it when you're ready (and legally able) to move up.

Taking the class does not mean you are able to ride skillfully. That takes miles and practice. I would recommend moving up only after you've got about 5000 miles or so behind you. (Yes, THOUSAND!) It will take that long to train "muscle memory" so that you know how the bike behaves, what the controls do, etc. without conscious thought. If someone pulls out in front of you and your thought process includes "Um, right hand lever, squeeze, add right foot pedal; oh, yeah, downshift, downshift again," then you haven't ridden enough to be on a bigger bike. If you have to think about which lever to use, even for a fraction of a second. . . then you'll be too late someday.

Ride the boring bike long enough to get good on it, you'll save some money, and recover a good portion of it selling to the next newbie. If something happens to it (and it probably will) it won't be that painful if it's a cheap used bike maybe under 1,000 pounds, maybe even half that.
 
I already do have well over 5000 miles under my belt, i used to be doing around 200 miles a week minus my regular trips to telford at weekends (another 40). Although thats on a twist and go, i have had previous experience with geared bikes and am comfortable on a 250 Quad (private land).

Again i'm not going for a showy bike as a big limited bike will be slower then a naturally 33bhp bike. Buying one bike at the beginning then keeping it longer should work out cheaper if the insurance isn't sky high as i won't need to sell a buy another bike later on.
 
Yes insurance will take you up the ass having a restricted 600. Have you consideredthe new ninja 250 thats coming out?
 
Even with some experience, I think you'd gain more from learning to ride the piss out of a 125 and upgrading to a 600, rather than getting used to riding your 33hp 600 and then tripling or quadrupling the power in the span of a day. How do those restrictors affect fuel economy?

Also, GilesGuthrie is right -- choose a popular 125 and you'll barely have lost any money at all. Hell, if it's beaten up when you buy it you could put some work into it and turn a profit.

rovens
Have you consideredthe new ninja 250 thats coming out?
Click to expand...
The Ninja 250 makes more than 33hp (at the crank), so would he have to restrict that, too? I'm not familiar with the law, I don't know if there's wiggle room. Might as well buy a starter bike that has <=33hp from the factory.
 
Ok thanks for the opinions, we'll see when the time comes and i'll get some quotes, one friend of mine recenlty got insured on a restricted 350cc in a similar situation to me but in a higher risk area at £250. Not sure what bike it was though but if mines anywhere near that i'll be happy.
 
Well just incase anyone cared, I've made my decision now (get my money next week), I decided to buy an already under 33bhp bike, this proved difficult to find a decent example for a decent price, so I've opted to get a 125CC supermoto style bike, more specifically a 2007 Yamaha DT-R SM if I can grab one. Like this.
media

I can learn and do my test on this I should think, it's pretty good on petrol (streaks better then the race replica 125s) accelerates almost as fast and top speed doesn't realy mean anything to me. The roads by me are very twisty and technical, so I'll find my fun there. I love the styling on this bike though, and I won't be green-laning so this is possibly the best option for me with a good compromise of fun and practicality.
 
Is that bike a 4-stroke or a 2-stroke? And if it's a 4t, why does it look like it has an expansion chamber? :odd:

Nice looking bike though. As far as fuel consumption goes it depends which race reps you're comparing it to. If you mean the 2-stroke Aprilia, Cagiva et al, then yeah it'll be a lot better, but compared to the 4-stroke Honda CBR125 and Yamaha YZF-R125 there won't be much difference.
 
Its a 2T i believe, but yes compared to the Aprilia RS125s which I considered as they look great and go like stink but are to unreliable and high running costs. I hear the CBR125s can have unfriendly clutches but i hate the look of them anyway and I'm quite tall and they seem really small. I read up and aparently the DT-R i intend to get, or that model, can do 120 miles per tank and took £6.50 to fill (more like about £7.00 now i'd estimate) but that works out cheaper then the bus if im sensible, which i likely will be. No need to rush to college :)
 
Thanks, should be able to get it next week. It's one of those, 'I look better then I am' kind of bikes, and it probably sounds like a hairdryer on steroids :lol:
 
Dragonistic
Its a 2T i believe, but yes compared to the Aprilia RS125s which I considered as they look great and go like stink but are to unreliable and high running costs. I hear the CBR125s can have unfriendly clutches but i hate the look of them anyway and I'm quite tall and they seem really small. I read up and aparently the DT-R i intend to get, or that model, can do 120 miles per tank and took £6.50 to fill (more like about £7.00 now i'd estimate) but that works out cheaper then the bus if im sensible, which i likely will be. No need to rush to college :)
Click to expand...

You're right, the CBR125s are tiny (though a good size for me at roughly 5'9") but I've not heard anything about unfriendly clutches - I'm a member on a very active motorcycle forum and with a lot of new riders joining all the time, many of whom have CBR125s, I've not heard of the problem before.

Likewise, the Aprilia isn't unreliable as long as it's maintained properly (i.e, strict warming-up routines stuck to and remembering to give it 2t oil!) - and doesn't even have to be that expensive, given that 2-strokes are much easier to work on yourself than 4-strokes are as they have fewer moving parts.

But you're probably right, the Yamaha will probably take a little more new-rider punishment even though it's still a 2-stroke, as it'll be less highly-strung than the Aprilia.

As a general rule, from what I've read, you'll be looking to get between maybe 50-60mpg if you ride it fairly normally, though that'll dip pretty quickly if you thrash it, compared to most 4-stroke 125s that'll struggle to do less than 70mpg even if you're riding like a nutter.
 
Maybe it was just the two i heard of then, people seemed to have trouble getting them going compared to normal bikes (CBRs). But yes they're just to small for me. Im buying used so 99.9% of Aprilia RS125s are useless for me bar low mileage ones, I need a good 3-4 years out this bike, and the italians aren't well known for long lasting machines. I will be riding sensibly most of the time so 50MPG sounds just fine, but I reckon i can beat that if i ride fully eco. Unlike most 18 year old males I do intend to look after my machine and not just thrash it. I'll be doing 200 mile a week minimum with just college, so Ideally I need a low mileage long lasting bike and I trust the Japanese much more then other manufacturers.

I believe I'll be much more comfortable on a supermoto style bike like this to, I'm pretty tall and I live in the country so roads aren't always great, a nice high clearance with more spring rate should make for a more comfortable ride. With my budget i can easily get a decent '07 model of the DT-R SM with less then 5K on the clock for around £2,000. My exact budget is around £2,500, but i want some money to spare for myself.

The main thing attracting me to this particular DT-R is the styling, I love supermoto's and this one looks great. I looked at the CBRs, RS125s and alternatives to the DT-R and this one just calls to me most, particularly in the blue/black paint job. Thanks for the info, you obviously know more about this then me. I'll have another look for any 4 stroke 125s to see if one takes my fancy, but it's a pretty high bar for me as that Yam is practically perfect for what i want.
 
Well if you like the style and even the colour, Yamaha do make their own 4-stroke 125 supermoto style bike, the XT125X, and also the WR25X, though that's brand new so you probably won't find it within your budget. The XT you might as it's been out a few years.

You'd probably eke out more than 50mpg if you were riding really gingerly, but remember that motorcycles need revving a lot more than cars do even for normal progress, and that 2-strokes don't take as kindly to constant low-revving as 4-strokes do. Well, that's to say they prefer a good thrashing but not to the point of mistreating them.
 
I did some more research, people are claiming 70MPG on DT-R SMs. I had a look at those bikes also, but I think I've fallen for that DT-R now. 50MPG should be fine though to be fair. Even if money does get tight, I can always get the bus a few times a week. After my first year with the bike I'll be off to Uni and the bike may stay here at home. I'd rather have a bike I love then something I'm content with and is cheaper. As sensible as I am, my machines mean alot to me and I want something I can toy with to, 2 strokes being easier to work with at home seems best.

My heart overrides my wallet on this one :) Thanks again though, but I believe my decision is made. Going to book my CBT asap and then I can get on the roads right away then do a full test in a month or so.
 
No worries, I wasn't trying to influence you :) Just giving you options. 2-strokes should definitely be easier for home maintenance, no valves, cams, pushrods, rockers, timing gears/belts/chains to worry about on the engine!

One thing I'd advise you to look out for is to make sure you get a restricted one so it's actually learner legal. I know they don't make the 30-odd bhp derestricted that the Aprilias etc do, but it's only technically learner legal if it's under 14.6bhp 👍 It'll still get you the best part of 65-70mph top end which is more than enough for a learner bike :D
 
Yea, the DT-Rs can't pass an MOT with original parts unrestricted though I hear, due to the nature it's restricted a whole new exhaust is needed to make it passable on an MOT, so I can quite literally see a restricted bike and what isn't. I saw a few on autotrader with DEP exhausts which are obvious not restricted and others with the normal one which would be fine. I've found a great example with 2,000 miles on the clock (an '07 model) but it's far away so I have to pass my CBT so I can ride it home (no trailer). Let's hope no-one snaps it up as it's at a great price. Fingers crossed.
 
Definitely, good luck to you 👍 I really need to get my CBT re-done at some stage (did it earlier this year, awful weather, didn't complete it, ran out of money, still have no money, have to wait!) and get a bike! Honda CG for me...
 
The CBT classes confuse me though. A1 is 125CC under 15 bhp (ish) A2 is the whole 33bhp job, but thats the only difference it details. So I don't know which one I should be doing the bike I'm buying fits into A1, but I want to do a full test and the websites are useless in explaining it all, they only say the power difference and no more. If i did the A2 (i might have 1 and 2 mixxed up so the 'standard' motorcycle instead of 'light' motorcycle) I'll still be able to ride solo won't i? for 2 years of course on L plates and no motorway travel until I pass my full test or it expires. Correct?

EDIT: Never mind, found a normal ENGLISH and not jargon article, problem solved, I now realise a CBT doesn't change at all it was blabberingon about rubbish completely unlrelated to a CBT.
 
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Hehe, no worries.

Basically, CBT covers you for two years from any age, to ride anything up to 125cc/15bhp (unless you're 16, and then you're limited to 50cc/30mph until you're 17). You'd need L plates during the CBT period until you took a test.

You can take an A1 restricted test, which would let you get rid of the L plates but you still wouldn't be able to ride anything bigger than 125cc/15bhp, for as long as you held the licence. No L plates.

A2 is the main test, if you take this you can ride anything up to 33bhp for two years, and then the restriction lifts and you can ride anything. No L plates during the restriction period.

The final option, if you're over 21, is Direct Access. Taking this test, which is usually longer and more expensive, will allow you to ride any capacity or power right from the start. Much as it's tempting, it's not something I'd go for because I'd probably kill myself, with the best will to ride sensibly in the world. I'd be quite happy toddling about on a 125cc for two years until the restriction lifted!

That said, I'm not a big speed freak anyway and when I get around to starting biking, I can't realistically see myself riding anything with more than about 60bhp anyway, as that's still good for 60 in 4-5 seconds and 130mph+...
 
Well seeing as my bikes only going to be 14.x bhp i believe, I may just do an A1 restricted test after (the bikes going to be with me 4 years hopefully) as I'll be able to use a bike i'm mre familiar with, If i did A2 i'd be to tempted to buy a large bike going straight from my tiny machine after the 4 years and it just wouldn't be worth it.

I to won't ever be looking at huge bikes unless i end up very rich at some point for some reason, and even then i won't be buying something silly like a YZF R1 :lol: My girlfriend would kill me if I did she doesn't like the idea of me having the DT-R125 ! Fortunately she trusts me to be sensible, and i intend to be :) Why have a bike or even car that'll do speeds you'll never actually achieve?
 
I've often wondered the answer to that question myself, beyond the "speed is addictive" thing. I really see no reason whatsoever to have anything faster than a 600cc, considering the supersports machines make 120bhp, do 60 in roughly 3 seconds and top out at 160-170mph - you question the need for anything bigger.

Good call on deciding to keep on a smaller machine for longer though, it's a good attitude to take. It means that your learning curve will be shallower and when you do eventually move to bigger bikes, you've have more experience early on. Plus, depreciation of the bike you're getting won't matter as much.

Given that the basic question of the thread has been answered, I'll deviate a little off-topic. I'm not actually that interested in sports machines - I'm more a fan of classic bikes, small-engined bikes, classic scooters and naked bikes, so when I eventually get through a number of years of riding 125s (I'm going to try and not give up my car during this time, hence I need money!) I'd like something like the CCM CR40, which is a new bike in the old "cafe racer" style:

retrocr40cu0.png


It's not that powerful - it's got a 400cc Suzuki engine with about 40bhp, and only just does over 100mph, but I love the looks of it, it's quite light, and they're still supposed to be fun even if they aren't that quick. This is the sort of biking I want to get into, as opposed to the leather-racesuit and superbike sort of biking.
 
I'm more into motoX and supermoto, which is why i went for that style of bike and there's plenty of 125s available for it. I do love a classic I must say, that bike is very nice. Must be light having so little extra bits attached, light = fun :)
 
Quick update on happenings, my CBT now on Wednesday, I am set still on the DTX to be precise, but this isn't exactly a common bike and finding a good one for good money is proving difficult, however I shall persist as long as it takes to get one, two have slipped through my grasp already so efforts are being increased tenfold and I'm now expanding my budget up to £2200 and cutting into my extra spending money.

This is proving a most difficult task but I shall not be defeated!
 
If all else fails remember you could do worse than buying a normal offroad style bike (like the Honda XR125L, which are abundant) and then just bunging street tyres on it :D
 
Yup, very true, i just want the road set up preferably and being the rare model it's also that little bit more desirable and special, that X makes a big difference in that department :)

I could even buy a normal DTR and shove road tyres on it quite easily, but it's just not the same if I can pick one of these elusive DTXs up. I've found another 2 possible in my price range (1,899 and 1,999) the latter being the exact spec and low miles and the first being more miles (not alot though) but with some modifications. This might make it illegal on a CBT and i'd rather have a normal original bike, no need for extra bits.
 

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