Intelligence: Genetic inheritance or function of effort?

[Mike Rotch]

Is it possible to increase one’s intelligence? Or is one condemned to being limited to an ‘inherent’ level of intelligence? Consider the following to explain further:

A chap called North E. West is born. He is an average sort of fellow, born with an IQ of 100. The question I ask is, is he born with an IQ ‘ceiling’, or is the world his oyster? Is he ever only able to achieve a maximum intelligence of say, 130, or can be “re-wire” his brain by constant learning to achieve super intelligence?

Maybe it is better to ask some sub-questions. Does additional learning above the IQ of 130 imply intelligence, or simply an ability to learn? The two aren’t the same, just put a person with a natural mathematical flair next to someone who does, but both sharing similar qualifications.

Are we doomed to a level of intelligence as a part of our genetic make-up, or is it entirely in our own hands hands?

 

[Kylehnat]

I think that IQ is merely a measure of one's natural ability to learn. It has no bearing on what you can and can't learn. I know "smart" people who are stupid, and "stupid" people who are smart. It's all a matter of whether you think you can learn something, and putting forth the effort. And whether you feel like you should put forth that effort is a result of your surroundings. It may take someone with a lower IQ more effort to learn something, but they can still do it.

 

[Mike Rotch]

I dont quite agree with that. The fact that someone is able to learn something with greater ease necessarily implies they have higher intelligence then someone who takes a lot longer to learn the same thing.

 

[Dave A]

I think everyone's intelligence is limited, but I don't think anyone in the world has ever come close to reaching that limit though. Some people are dimmer than other's thank's to their genetic makeup but short of people with mentla or learning difficulties, they can make up a hell of a lot of the difference with effort.

 

[Zardoz]

This is the "nature versus nurture" question, which will be debated forever, and may be an unresolvable issue.

But let's all get on the same page about "intelligence", first.

Mike: What is your definition of "intelligence"? Are you talking about one's ability to do complex math functions without a calculator, or the ability to make the right life choices? Those are very different forms of intelligence, aren't they?

 

[Small_Fryz]

Some people can learn things so fast other so slow.

But its more grey than that.

I for one can learn maths and logic stuff extremely fast, it never took me long to learn anything at school. Yet put in a artist, or dancing class and i would be up **it creek with no paddle.

I think you are limited to a certin degree yes, just like you are limited physically, you have to embrace what your good at and make the most of it. Instead of some time focusing on what you dont have and fighting a downhill battle.

 

[Pupik]

Is it possible to increase one’s intelligence? Or is one condemned to being limited to an ‘inherent’ level of intelligence?

Are we doomed to a level of intelligence as a part of our genetic make-up, or is it entirely in our own hands hands?

I think that anyone, with a few exceptions, has the possibility to enhance or degrade their intelligence quotient by thier own free will. You learn, you develop skills, you learn some more based on your new skills... possibly ad infinitum.

I think the bell curve would change the IQ rating of everyone, some people would get swept further away from the mean as they became senile, or played too many video games and watched too much TV. Others would constantly push the envelope and move forward from the average to derive new skills based on what they've learned before. They can teach themselves more personally efficient ways to learn, process information, and recall it.

There's exceptions: Piaget (?) discovered that the human brain has sections that can get damaged, but the mind can work around there things. It can take 2 hours, or perhaps 20 years, or forever...but the ability is there to repair the mind. Also, disease and things that can cause brain damage can harm one abilities; likewise, cases of mental retardation, autism, insanity, etc. could seriously prevent/inhibit the ability to increase one's IQ.

Even then, I think that it's possible to always at least incrementally increase one's intelligence, except in some exceptional cases. Your mind has to overcome barriers, and therefore, adapts to changes which allows you to modify your environment (unless you go completely mad and kill yourself).

(Hah! I just tricked the computer into making green links on just the right hot-button words...Take that, space coyote!)

 

[a6m5]

I think the intelligence is like any other abilities/skills. I think it has a lot to do with your genes, but you can get smarter or dumber, depending on how you nurture your mind/brain. No matter how hard I try, I'll never be an Einstein(or that indigo dude that lurks this forum).

 

[Ev0]

I'd wager that most of what determines how intelligent we are depends a lot on our early lives. If we have good parents or any sort of person to help us through the early years by, for example, reading to a young child, it should help a lot down the road.

Also, there are different types of intelligence. For instance, once I figure out how a certain concept in math/science works, I'll probably never forget it. But it takes me a long time generally to achieve that understanding. And I'll be damned if I have to try and explain it to someone.

 

[Delirious]

I'm reading a lot of "I think" responses...

Can anyone come up with a "I know" response? (I reply in such a way to maybe gain intelligence to see if I have reached my plateau, if I even have one)

 

[niky]

First of all, we have to agree on a common measure of intelligence. IQ doesn't work, as it's culture biased. I.E., if you're an Aborigine, you could be a virtual Einstein and still score miserably on a classical "abstract reasoning" IQ exam, because your mode of think is non-linear.

This implies, of course, that you can study for an IQ exam. Dedicate a few months to understanding the common ploys used in testing, and you can boost your IQ by ten or twenty points.

While it's certainly impossible to make an Einstein out of yourself just by studying, you can definitely increase your comprehension, mathematical abilities and/or memory by constant practice, to hardwire those modes of thought into your brain.

Take me, for example, I sucked at Math in grade school, barely passing it, year after year. But thanks to a teacher who was both innovative and traditional (flash cards, endless drills and formula derivation practice), two years later, I hardly had to study for it anymore. In fact, I never had to memorize formulas for Physics and Trigonometry, as I could always extrapolate formulas on the spot.

But there are limits to our personal potentials, and there are some things some people just can't understand or do. (I still suck at languages).

 

[Mike Rotch]

What is your definition of "intelligence"?

From wiki: "a very general mental capability that, among other things, involves the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly and learn from experience. It is not merely book learning, a narrow academic skill, or test-taking smarts. Rather, it reflects a broader and deeper capability for comprehending our surroundings—"catching on", "making sense" of things, or "figuring out" what to do."

First of all, we have to agree on a common measure of intelligence. IQ doesn't work, as it's culture biased

I didnt want to get onto this, even though i fully agree with you - IQ is culturally based and thus pretty much useless. But it the best of the worst at the moment.

While it's certainly impossible to make an Einstein out of yourself just by studying, you can definitely increase your comprehension, mathematical abilities and/or memory by constant practice, to hardwire those modes of thought into your brain.

That implies intelligence for any individual has a natural limit. Having to practice and hardwire limits above that natural intelligence can be done, but I would assume it is subject to decreasing marginal returns: you achieve smaller and smaller increments of improvement as you improve, and thus also subject to a limit.

 

[niky]

That's true... you do reach a point where the returns become marginal. I was able to go from a D in math to a "I don't even need to study to get an A+" through training, but I could never aspire to the same level as my classmate, who could do cubed roots in his head (He got 3rd in an International Math Challenge in Japan).

As with all "nature versus nurture" arguments, you can present many proofs for either idea (re: inheritance vs. effort), but you can never totally disprove the opposite.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

It not only seems quite logical to have a limit, I certainly know people who will never have the general comprehension of others, as they are mentally inferior, just a fact of life. Just like carl lewis could jump so friggin far back in the day, somebody can lift so much weight, some body can always do something better than somebody else. And that how the process os natural slection has always worked, though we've done our best to stop it for humans.

As for IQ being biased, it may be biased, but there really is no way to measure one's logic, general process of information, wether they can putt 2+2 together, and all the things of intelligence.
My opinion, which I believe as fact, though no proof behind it, you are completly limited naturally, a birth, assuming no health problems or accidents, you have what you got. You can learn more, try hard and make your brain work as best it can, but you will never become a TRULY smarter person, simply learn what you can.
Like they've said^^^ Some can't learn math for crap, but after a while, they get taught well, now they can do it. can anybody teach common sense? good decision-making? the ability the rationalize with yourself, and realize that you MUST do what you don't want to?

Book-Learning: Yes
True Intelligence: No.

 

[Swift]

There's also a big difference between knowledge and wisdom.

 

[a6m5]

Book-Learning: Yes
True Intelligence: No.

Basically that's what I was thinking too(more I thinks).

 

[LeadSlead#2]

There's also a big difference between knowledge and wisdom.

What is that difference?
The only one I could guess is wisdom is a knowledge for the unseen/unexpected/unknown?

 

[niky]

Knowledge is knowing that hair-dryers run on electricity.

Wisdom is not using them when you're sitting in the bath-tub.

 

[Blake]

That’s common sense.

 

[kikie]

...The fact that someone is able to learn something with greater ease necessarily implies they have higher intelligence then someone who takes a lot longer to learn the same thing.

Ok but the outcome is the same. They both learned and understand the same thing (it took the latter a lot longer to learn the same thing but at the end he/she got it).



Could be that everybody is born with a "basic" intelligence (=> genes). If your brain is functioning "normally", you could improve your knowledge but is this the same thing as intelligence. Intelligence is relative. Someone could be a specialist in languages or science or a combination of ... But that doesn't mean that this person is a mathematical wizzard.
The ability to learn, to cope with new situations and "learn" from these situations or whatever is a form of intelligence.
Some people could even be very intelligent but don't even know it. Due to social, economical situations, experiences, they could develop a lack of cofidence and blocks their "natural" level of intelligence. If your brain is "chemically" in perfect order and some parts are more "awake" than normal, you could have a higher intelligence. You must have the right chemicals (neurotransmitters) balance in your brain to create new neurons (pathways) in your brain and the right, correct connections.
There are so many forms of intelligence; science, laguages, verbal, social, economical, musical etc.....
Maybe it's the same thing as your (body) condition, being in shape. Every body has a basic condition and you can develop a better and stonger body trough training, (but there is a limit for everybody).
Intelligence is also a social thing. People with a "high IQ" (don't forget the EQ, which is as important as IQ), are being concidered as "kind of" important. Everybody looks up to these people. But what about other "skills"??? A very good health (genes), being good in sports (genes) etc....!!

 

[Swift]

What is that difference?
The only one I could guess is wisdom is a knowledge for the unseen/unexpected/unknown?

Knowledge:
1. The state or fact of knowing.
2. Familiarity, awareness, or understanding gained through experience or study.
3. The sum or range of what has been perceived, discovered, or learned.
4. Learning; erudition: teachers of great knowledge.
5. Specific information about something.
6. Carnal knowledge.

Wisdom:
1. accumulated knowledge or erudition or enlightenment
2. the trait of utilizing knowledge and experience with common sense and insight
3. ability to apply knowledge or experience or understanding or common sense and insight
4. the quality of being prudent and sensible
5. Wisdom of Solomon: an Apocryphal book consisting mainly of a meditation on wisdom; although ascribed to Solomon it was probably written in the first century B

 

[Pupik]

Wisdom is not using them when you're sitting in the bath-tub.

Actually, you would gain more learning that water is a poor conductor of electricity...and it shall seek the simplest path through thy body when in holy water.

Teaching someone that using a hairdryer in the bathtub is dangerous, but it's far more useful to teach someone what an electrical item is and which ones are dangerous to use in a bathtub. Otherwise, the subject might avoid hairdryers near bathtubs, but think that a VCR is okay to use while bathing...

It's probably accurate to define wisdom as "what you gain by learning things through direct experience (and maybe a few bandages and ego-deflating incidents)".

I'm not sure about the dimishing returns on education: There's so many different things in the field of space and time in which to apply one's knowledge, that it would likely yield an infinte number of opportunites to learn from each experience. The phrase "What we know...is so much smaller than what we don't know" applies to this theory.

"It" caught VCR...how many people buy those anymore?

 

[niky]

I think we've got one lying around somewhere... and my copy of Deep Throat is probably still stuck in it.

 

[Kylehnat]

Actually, you would gain more learning that water is a poor conductor of electricity...and it shall seek the simplest path through thy body when in holy water.

Tap water has enough random crap in it to make it a fairly decent conductor.

 

[Danoff]

On topic here:

I think that some intelligence is a matter of genetics. There are far too many examples of intelligent parents having intelligent kids for there to be no correlation.

However, I think a huge amount of intelligence comes from another quality that is a little less tangible - determination. Motivation and the willingness to work hard is something that drives one's overall intelligence.

In order to be capable of learning some subjects, one first has to learn other subjects. Example - you have to understand algebra to learn calculus. Much of our ability to learn depends on our having learned other subjects ahead of time. A person who has a natural propensity for being smart can easily throw it away and end up stupid by refusing to use that ability to learn. Likewise a person with very little genetic intelligence can increase their ability to learn many subjects by working hard in the requisite subjects.

I've seen many people who picked up new subjects quickly throw away their potential... and I've seen many people who struggle much harder to pick up new concepts go much further in life and end up learning a great deal more - and being capable of learning even more because of it.

So your genetic predisposition toward being intelligent plays an important role, but, in my opinion, not as important a role as determination.

 

[Swift]

I don't think that they are the same thing at all. Knowledge and the ability to use knowledge effectively are two different things.

I agree that people can literally work to overcome some shortcomings, however I don't think that makes them more intelligent at a fundamental level. It makes them smart enough to realize they need to work hard.

This is why a lot of immigrant children beat the pants off of American children in schools. Not because they are so much smarter. But because they and their parents are willing to work harder(in general) to achieve the goal of good grades, college and somekind of a successful future.

 

[Poverty]

Id say its a combination of genetics and a persons primary and secondary socialisation.

This is why a lot of immigrant children beat the pants off of American children in schools. Not because they are so much smarter. But because they and their parents are willing to work harder(in general) to achieve the goal of good grades, college and somekind of a successful future.

This is an example of primary socialisation.

 

[Danoff]

I don't think that they are the same thing at all. Knowledge and the ability to use knowledge effectively are two different things.

I totally agree with that.

I agree that people can literally work to overcome some shortcomings, however I don't think that makes them more intelligent at a fundamental level. It makes them smart enough to realize they need to work hard.

At some point it is indistinguishable from intelligence. If you take two second graders and compare their ability to pick up a new subject, you can get a feel for some sort of natural propensity toward learning - a genetically granted intelligence.

But if you take two college freshmen and try the same thing you won't be able to distinguish hard work prior to college from natural propensity for learning.

This is why a lot of immigrant children beat the pants off of American children in schools. Not because they are so much smarter. But because they and their parents are willing to work harder(in general) to achieve the goal of good grades, college and somekind of a successful future.

Totally agree here.

 

[Swift]

I totally agree with that.

Thanks

At some point it is indistinguishable from intelligence. If you take two second graders and compare their ability to pick up a new subject, you can get a feel for some sort of natural propensity toward learning - a genetically granted intelligence.

But if you take two college freshmen and try the same thing you won't be able to distinguish hard work prior to college from natural propensity for learning.

Very interesting point. I've always understood that but hadn't thought about it from that standpoint.

Totally agree here.

Thanks

 

[Swift]

This is an example of primary socialisation.

Please exlpain...