Interest Check & Discussion : Sprint vs Standard Length Races

Discussion in 'WRS-OE Archive' started by WRP001, Jan 9, 2014.

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For our weekly events, what is your preference for the racing format offered (standard vs sprint).

  1. Both formats offered simultaneously (I would primarily choose standard)

    16.7%
  2. Both formats offered simultaneously (I would primarily choose sprint)

    4.5%
  3. Both formats offered simultaneously (I would participate in both equally)

    22.7%
  4. Sprint format offered instead of standard occasionally (~1 per quarter)

    7.6%
  5. Sprint format offered instead of standard regularly (~1 per month)

    31.8%
  6. Sprint format offered instead of standard frequently (every other week)

    16.7%
  1. WRP001

    WRP001 Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Topic For Discussion: Sprint vs Standard Length Races for weekly events

    In our weekly Wednesday time slots, the WRS-Online has historically focused on offering standard (45-60 minute) races. Occasionally (rarely), the format is adjusted to use multiple sprints (12-20 mins) races.

    The main attraction to the standard length race is to bring into play many desirable strategic features of racing including, but not limited to:
    • Fuel strategy (without having to use wonky very fast settings)
    • Extended battles (not always bumper to bumper but splits vs strategy and end games)
    • Tire conservation (which requires different driving skills versus all out time trial pace)
    • Pit strategies and switching on the fly based on other drivers and race situations (e.g. one versus two pits, short pitting, etc.).
    We definitely want to keep these components a part of the majority of our events.

    At the same time there is also a lot to like about sprint races.
    • Significantly more close racing, the field naturally spreads out during a race and each restart brings the field back together.
    • More opportunities to work on clean racecraft and develop that aspect of driving (which is also different from a TT).
    • A chance to reset mutliple times during the event after a mistake (crash). In a standard length race if you make a mistake that puts you significant behind other racers it becomes a lonely endeavor. With a sprint, you know the next race isn't far away and you can restart from scratch.
    • The opportunity to have multiple winners (psychologically it's nice to win!)
    • The opportunity to run some reverse grid setups and allow different dynamics. That can also be a bad thing if too much aggression is present so has to be in the correct environment.
    • The ability to join late or leave early if they can't participate for the entire time or make the start.
    • The ability to participate if you can't manage 45-55 minutes of racing straight without a break.
    • A less serious atmosphere where you can show up to have fun without quite so much pre-race practice (although some practice and knowing braking points is always required so as not to impact others on track).

    One idea the admins/steward are discussing, as long as the numbers support it, would be to offer drivers both options in a given week. Drivers would register for one or the other (but not both since they would take place simultaneously).

    All drivers in the registry would be eligible for either offering. It's not a case of division requirements, but just preference and the amount of time drivers have to prepare and which environment they prefer.

    The standard event would typically require more preparation testing strategies, calculating fuel consumption, practicing with worn tires, and being ready to compete for at least 45-55 minutes straight without a break. The sprint races would really just focus on the racing while tire wear and fuel would not come into play significantly. Tire wear would still be on and it could still pay to save tires, but the events would be set up so that pits are never required.

    The alternate idea is to just offer the sprints more frequently. The admins would decide based on the combo which format is used and drivers would not have the option.

    Anyway, we are throwing these ideas out there to start a discussion, get feedback and field questions which may lead to refinements of the idea and more discussions. There are certainly constraints and caveats with the idea, primarily it takes enough interest in both formats to make it even possible to offer both simultaneously so this may be something we can offer early in the game while participation numbers are high. Also, as more drivers get experience there may be a shift in preferences toward the standard length races... but early in the life of GT6 this may be something we could offer.
     
    Firecracker, Nish and PASM like this.
  2. Nish

    Nish

    Messages:
    1,398
    Location:
    Canada
    I'd enjoy both options being available simultaneously. I like the longer races better myself but feel some people would benefit from a few short races if they don't have an hour or so to sit aside for the standard format. Possibly even hold the Sprints and "Standard" races on separate days?
     
  3. haansen

    haansen

    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    Germany
    I'm new to the whole friendly online racing thing, yesterday was my first participation. I think I could learn more from the sprint races, but I really would like to do the strategic standard races as well. So I vote for regulary sprint races.
     
  4. LittlePaul78

    LittlePaul78

    Messages:
    198
    I've always liked longer races, it brings a sense of strategy into the races. I voted for 'Both formats offered simultaneously (I would primarily choose standard)' because I enjoyed the short races yesterday, but I would prefer the standard races. It would be nice to have a mix around though.
     
    Thematic likes this.
  5. Racingworld68

    Racingworld68 Premium

    Messages:
    2,883
    Location:
    Belgium
    voted :

    Both formats offered simultaneously (I would participate in both equally)
     
    ernestone and n0iZe83 like this.
  6. n0iZe83

    n0iZe83

    Messages:
    491
    Location:
    Italy
    voted :

    Both formats offered simultaneously (I would participate in both equally)
     
  7. kreezydoed

    kreezydoed Premium

    Messages:
    261
    Location:
    Belgium
    What about the Parity Racing? Will they return on saterdays?

    That is sort of sprint races.
     
    GTP_DeathStar likes this.
  8. hasslemoff

    hasslemoff Premium

    Messages:
    3,382
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    They will be back one day as one of special events for the weekends as with GT5 :)


    I voted once a month for sprint.

    For the pug it was ideal to have sprint races, always in reach of someone and if it was a full length race you would of got a bit lonely. Im more for sprint races with this type of car.

    The faster car combos I think suit a full length race better, with stratergy more in mind as it is a lot harder to race bumper to bumper with out incident (lag included) and the track normally starts to split a bit after 1 lap in the quicker cars.
     
  9. PASM

    PASM Moderator

    Messages:
    4,518
    Location:
    Netherlands
    I voted for "Sprint format offered instead of standard regularly (~1 per month)". I think the sprints are a nice format every once and a while. As Tim says, both standard and sprints have their charm. I would be equally inclined to join both standard and sprint race formats.

    Organising them both each week (at the same time?) is also possible, but maybe not desirable. That would be splitting the field into two, where maybe racers that are otherwise closely matched would not meet each other in a race. So, the chance of a very close race with multiple other WRS'ers is a little bit smaller. Of course you would also be able to see the registration tables of both formats and choose for a race based on the competitors in your own (sub)division too.

    Lastly, I hope we could do some races in the Saturday Attack format again too! I always enjoyed them a lot.
     
    See23, Cats_PJs and Racingworld68 like this.
  10. jtv90069

    jtv90069 Moderator

    Messages:
    1,625
    Location:
    Australia
    I've voted for occasional sprint race.
    Sprint races are great in the right car(like the Pug 207), but I think most races need the extra length. Managing tyres, short stint vs long stint, how close do i cut fuel, it's great :cool:. There have been long races where I've literally been shaking with adrenaline after them because of how the race has changed throughout and come down to a mini sprint race over the last few laps:D.
     
    Tombstoneplt and Nish like this.
  11. GTP_Patrick1

    GTP_Patrick1

    Messages:
    2,175
    Location:
    United States
    I like both formats, and voted for sprints once a month. If participation remained strong though we may be able to support 2 different types of races concurrently. I hope all of the new WRSers keep coming back, it was fun to have such a big turnout. Sprints give you a chance to redeem yourself if you make a big mistake. The longer races involve more strategy, but the field can get a bit strung out, especially with faster cars. Whatever we end up with, as long as I have time, I will participate.
     
  12. mohitraina91

    mohitraina91 Premium

    Messages:
    1,747
    Location:
    Canada
    Voted for sprint offered regularly (~1 per month).

    Have to agree with what Jon said. The sprint races should be offered with the slower cars (like the Pug, and for those who remember, The Great Autozam Races of 2013). Once you drop away from the pack, these cars are not as fun to drive alone. The sprint races should fix that.

    The faster sports/super/racing cars should be kept in a longer format, as racing these wheel to wheel is much more difficult, and strategy comes into play often in these.

    IMHO we shouldn't be tied down to offering a sprint race every month, but do it with the right cars (420 PP ish and below). Knowing Kev's rotational policy though, it would probably be every 4-5 weeks.
     
  13. NINE_HUNDRED

    NINE_HUNDRED

    Messages:
    2,111
    Location:
    England
    I voted I'd take part in both. But I agree with Jon and Mohit, certain cars are better for the sprints. I think it would be best to judge the sort of race on the combo for that particular week.
     
  14. oink83

    oink83 Premium

    Messages:
    3,493
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    My thoughts are pretty much exactly what Mohit laid down there. :)
     
  15. AspecBob

    AspecBob Premium

    Messages:
    1,909
    Location:
    Canada
    I voted for having sprints every other week, because I am prone to making at least one costly mistake per race. That said, I must say I also miss the enduro races, hope we have one again soon as a special event!
     
    iainoflo85, Tombstoneplt and PASM like this.
  16. jammy21

    jammy21 Premium

    Messages:
    3,253
    Location:
    Finland
    Voted. Same thoughts (& vote) with Jon & Mohit.
     
  17. Cats_PJs

    Cats_PJs Premium

    Messages:
    1,576
    Location:
    United States
    Voted for sprints once a month. I don't have time to practice and develop strategy for the longer races (as evidenced by my past performance), and being able to leave a bit early makes it much easier for me to participate.
     
  18. GTP_CargoRatt

    GTP_CargoRatt

    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    United States
    As most of you know, I am completely new to this idea of online circuit racing and have recently decided to take the plunge and try actually racing instead of just time trialing all the time. Having said that, I voted for sprint races for the main reason being because of my disability. I cannot sit for long periods of time at once and have to get up and move around quite frequently. I would never make it doing a 45-60 min race. Yea, I put in anywhere from 8-10 hours a day in GT6, but its not without many breaks of getting up and stretching and just trying to stay loose, not to mention the pain that sets in after about 30 minutes of continual sitting. My routine goes like this: Play for about 30 - 40 minutes, get up and stretch for about 5 minutes, then back at it again. Sprints are probably not the best way to start out an online racing career while trying to learn race craft, but its the way I have to do it. 40 minutes is my max, and that's pushing it.

    EDIT: Think I misunderstood the voting choices. Really meant to vote for the second one from the bottom. Sorry for screwing up the voting results. :guilty:
     
  19. GTPCrispyOne

    GTPCrispyOne

    Messages:
    274
    Location:
    United States
    Voted for sprint offered regularly (~1 per month).

    I generally can't commit to the Wednesday events in their current time slots, but more sprint races would give me the opportunity to attend some of an event rather than having to miss it altogether.
     
  20. gm matthew

    gm matthew

    Messages:
    580
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I've voted for offering both options, with me preferring sprint races.

    I really enjoyed the three unofficial events which were in sprint format, they produced some really epic battles that would occur less often in standard length races. Also, it looks like we could get more participants willing to compete in sprint events which is always good.

    Mind you, if both formats were to become popular, then each event would be split into two rooms minimum, even if there aren't that many participants in total. This isn't an issue at the moment, but towards the end of GT5 there were many events that didn't get enough participants to become official (and that was with one room).

    On another note, I'm theorizing that many of the more keen drivers may choose standard while the more casual drivers may opt for sprint, similar to multi-class events where faster drivers choose faster cars. Of course, I could be wrong.
     
    GTP_DeathStar likes this.
  21. Daniel Pinho

    Daniel Pinho

    Messages:
    384
    Location:
    Germany
    I voted in Both formats offered simultaneously.
     
    GTP_DeathStar likes this.
  22. serfon

    serfon

    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    Belgium
    I voted in Both formats offered simultaneously. I have a preference for standard races but it will mainly depend on which combo is used.
     
  23. GTP_Patrick1

    GTP_Patrick1

    Messages:
    2,175
    Location:
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    I think this week's TT is an excellent candidate for sprint races. At less than a minute a lap, we could get three 15 - 20 lap sprints in.
     
  24. jfro22

    jfro22

    Messages:
    51
    I agree. I asked in the TT thread and it was hinted at that there would be sprints this week.
     
  25. GTP_DeathStar

    GTP_DeathStar (Banned)

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Macau
    Another advantage to having sprint races is that they would give people more chances to complete a race. I've seen a number of people every single week get DC'd for whatever reason, be it when one person has connection issues or the game decides to drop 4 people from the race all at once.

    Not by any means would I want to do away with longer races. I love running in a race that takes around an hour to complete. I'm just adding another point to the "for the Sprint" column because I love doing a series of shorter heats in just over an hour too.
     
  26. See23

    See23

    Messages:
    80
    Location:
    Canada
    A late vote for sprints every other week. (just found this thread)
    It's lonely getting separated from the field wether you're up front, middle, or back
    ...in any car!
    Besides, most of the action usualy happens in the first 5 laps anyways.

    Mandatory pit for the long races.?
     
    GTP_DeathStar likes this.
  27. oink83

    oink83 Premium

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    If you mean the longer of the 2 in a sprint event, generally the events are more about a single stint sprint (as the name implies) so the idea is no pitting at all.
     
  28. See23

    See23

    Messages:
    80
    Location:
    Canada
    I mean for non-sprint events. But maybe for the long race of a sprint event.
    I've heard it mentioned before and I think it might be ok to do. It's done in the real world.
     
  29. oink83

    oink83 Premium

    Messages:
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    Yes we will use it sometimes, but only if we think it's useful or will make the race better. We considered it for Monaco race this week but decided against it. If it makes sense, then it's there to use but only then.
     
    See23 likes this.
  30. Gravitron

    Gravitron Moderator

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    We'll be avoiding pit stops as much as possible until the pit bug is fixed. :ouch:

    For Monaco we could have used Very Fast Tire/Fuel and it would have forced a pit for fuel. But with the worse tires you get, it kind of makes everyone's strategy the same - stay on the original tires as long as possible. :tdown:
     
    See23 likes this.