Interest check--S2000 spot race

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Gil

Gil

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Here's the deal. I have been thinking about the S2000 questions that I've seen. I have come to the conclusion that the only way to find out which of the "street" cars (Mugen, Spoon, and Honda) is truly the best, is to race them under "equal" conditions.

As usual, OLR rules would apply.
The conditions:
AS the MUGEN S2000 makes the least HP fully modded, with oil change is 380. We'll use that as figure as our max.
All mods allowed. Just keep your HP within 5 HP (+/-) of 380.

To make things interesting: Set the cars up as close to identically as possible.
Then Pick from SSR-5 or Tokyo R246. Run as many laps as you like with each car and tell us which one is fastest for you.

I'd be very interested to see your results.:D

I know what you're thinking. "If I run identically set up cars around the same tracks, my times should be virtually, identical."
I tried this the other nite at Midfield. One of the S2000s was significantly quicker around the track than the others. And they were set up virtually identically.
I hope that little tidbit, piques your interest.:trouble:

Oh yeah, I know that this is a pretty busy time for all. So, if there is no interest, We can try again during the summer when everybody has the time.
THANX.
 
Update:

To include the Spoon S2000 Racecar. I dropped HP to 355 or as close as I could get. My opinion that the Spoon S2000 racecar sucks...STANDS.
I beat it with all three street versions with similar HP. One of them was even DOWN by 6 HP.

Now to run this at both tracks with 380 HP...
Anybody in?
 
I'd be up for it, but it seems my OLR time is pretty well wrapped up in the '9 boards' challenge, and another OLR league. It does look enjoyable, so I'll be back to it.

AO
 
Excellent.
I can't wait. I know your write-up will hit stuff I never even noticed.:D

*edit*
I chose Tokyo R246 and SSR-5 because they are relatively easy tracks. But good drivers can find the nuances to go "really fast" at either track.
I also would like the real "analysts" like Der Alta and Neon Duke to drive these and give me their impressions.
 
Hey Gil, I'll take you up on this expidition here, but instead of running on those two course, I think I am gonig to run it on Trail Mountain. The S200 is more of a technical car then a speed demon. If I am correct here I think this will show the true champion of S2000s. - - - to even make this more interesting, I think I am going to setup the suspension and braking all the same, including the LSD. The only thing I am gonig to change on the cars is going to be gearing.
 
Turismo Vision

Welcome to Turismo vision. It is a mildly cold day to hit the track. Clear sky a beautiful 70 degrees out and Asphalt just waiting for tar to be layith uponith.
This is your host Miata13b!

After the pre-lims - here are the suspension settings I used with all cars -
SR - F 14.4 R 12.0
RH F 86 R 86
B F 4 R 7
R F 4 R 7
Chamber F 3.0 R 0.0
Toe F -2.0 R 0.0
Stab F 1 R 4
Brake F 8 R 18
Initial 33
Accel 46
Rear 15
Gearing was done differently on each and needs to be tweaked on each car to make this a more fair match
The Spoon went into the comp with just 377hp, while the Mugen laid in the middle of the field with 380hp. The Turbo S2000 (stock from honda) went in with a hefty 387hp. I know that was 2 over but I think it will not change anything here.
Trial Mountain first lap only -
#1 Spoon - 1'29.990
#2 Mugen - 1'30.761
#3 Turbo S2000 - 1'30.974

After running just a one lap test, I feel the Mugen is probably the best performer out of the bunch, even though it placed second. It had the most natural feel to it while taking corners. The Turbo S2000 was great on exits of corners, but it was the Spoon that had the best corner entry. These cars are evenly matched, with a few gears ratio changes and a comprehensive 20 lap test to make an average lap time, I feel this competition will come to an end through my stand point. I am even willing to bet that I can get each car within .100 of each other on their hot laps and possibly within .500 with average lap time. I am really excited to find out who the victor will be. in the next coming days, An infamous ex-mazda roadster driver steps into the seats of these great cars, we will witness a biblical testing event that Honda never intended to happen. Until next time, We bid our GTPLANET readers farewell from Turismo Vision!
 
Folks, the numbers are in and the test results are here, but you don't get to see them just yet. Are you ready for a surprise??? The results will shock you once I get everything typed up later tonight.
 
I found out today that you can get equal hp from each of the S2000's. The magic number is 373 HP.
There is a big weight discrepancy among the cars. And to my surprise the Spoon was the heavyweight, at 1100kg. The type V and the Mugen are within 5 kg of each other at 1050 and 1054kg respectively.
SSR-5 told the tale as to which car is best. Since it's late, that will have to wait for another time...
 
Yeah, actually, I found out a really interesting discovery between the three cars I used. The factory version was the V-spec and I am interested in using the other factory car. I am too drunk right now to really write the report, so unfortunately I will have it tomorrow. sorry guys.
 
Turismo Vision

Welcome again folks to the second edition of Turismo Vision. Qualifications are finished and today is the big race day. Miata13b here, reporting to you on what can possibly be an amazing day to race. The weather is cold and there is a little sunshine here at Trial Mountain. The results of the one lap qualifying round will give you the starting order for the comparison race. First up the Factory Turbo S2000. We will look at the five most critical laps the S2000 did.
Lap 1 - 1'29.437
This lap shows the sluggish weakness of the factory car. The turbo gives the car a nice high-rev power range but the low revs just don't make up for it.
Lap 2 - 1'28.264
The second anaylised lap was the first improved lap ran by the factory car. A couple adjustments were made to the Factory car. First, they put some super softs on, including a chamber adjustment to the rear of .5 degrees.
Lap 3 - 1'26.276
The fastest lap the factory car made was this lap. Pushing the car real hard, the driver, a former Mazda test driver, had these comments to say about the car. "It was a blast to drive this factory car, but the problem in this car lays in the glued to the ground feeling. It is slow on entry on turns, but can blast out of them like a demon. It is a fine line car on the turns. You either grip it of drift it, there is no in-between!"
Lap 4 - 1'26.630
One gear missed on this lap for the test driver cost the record for the factory team in this car. Amazingly it was less then .400 of a second behind its fastest lap.
Lap 5 - 1'27.853
This is the final lap that is going to be anaylized for this car during the 20 lap test. The reason this lap is going to be used instead of a lap with closer times is because the driver felt this was his own personal best on the first half of the track right before the big left swooper. A slight mishap on the swooper leaves the bad lap time.

After a valiant effort, The Factory tuned S2000 just falls short in every category. After running the testing session in the morning, we head to the Test Course for some 400m and 1000m times. The Factory tuned S2000 gets a oil change and car wash before hand. - now it is tuned with 387hp tested and approved on the Dyno.

400M - Run #1 - 12.367 - N/A from the radar gun.
400M - Run #2 - 12.286 - 120mph at the trap.
400M - Run #3 - 12.236 - 120mph at trap.

1000m - Run #1 - 21.851 - 151mph
1000m - Run #2 - 121.903 - 154mph

The conclusion of the Factory S2000 test. Speculation from the testers - "A wonderful car for the learning curve, but it just lacks the handling response others have." - "Feels sluggish and loose, but it either sticking or sliding, no median."

Once again, this is Miata13B reporting race day at Trail Mountain! Have a wonderful evening; until next time.
 
A quick break for our sponsors and we will return with part 2 :)!
 
Turismo Vision

Welcome back for the third installment of Turismo Vision. This is Miata13B caoming direct from Trail Mountsin freezing his pants off here. THe weather has cooled down just a bit here and we are awating the arrival of The Mugen Team on the starting line. Now coming into this competition, The Mugen team was heavily a favorite by the judges and drivers, let us see what it can post.
Lap1 - 1'27.400
This was the most disappointing lap the Mugen team put on the boards. The Mugen team focused hard on balancing the car through this lap. They didn't feel like pushing the car to the limit on this lap. It was rumored that the weight transfer was going to be their biggest objective to nail.
Lap 2 - 1'26.465
Still worried about the weight transfer on this lap, Mugen nails the Apex dump on the turns. It is rumored that on Turn 5, the infamous right hander that has lead many of test cars into the jagged rocks on this course, The Mugen car was able to post one of the fastest speeds on the course, but that is all unofficial.
Lap 3 - 1'25.668
Mugne stepped up a notch on this lap after a brief pit stop. Mugen on the previous lap threw on some super softs and after the second pit stop, they added .5 degrees of chamber to the rear too. The Pit leader is still skepitcal about how the car has been acting today. The pit leader is quoted, "With the fast response and easily the best gripping car of the bunch, I don't see how our driver can be beast." Those were some real big words coming from the crew chief.
Lap 4 - 1'25.630
"Everything just grooved on this lap" Mugen's driver stated."I felt a rush this whole lap. Driving the car on the edge of traction and quickly manuvering around the corners, I don't see anyone touching us. I am on today." I started to sense a little too much Ego here from Mugen, and still with the Spoon team to place their mark, is it possible that Mugen is starting the celebration a little too early?
Lap 5 - 1'26.274
If it hadn't been for hitting the rumble strip a little too fast on turn two, this could have easily been the sealing lap for Mugen to take home. Running the fastest second half of the lap, Mugen could have taken a whole second off this lap had it not been for the airborne S2000.

Tuners admit, this is one of the most fun cars they have driven in a long time.The cunningness and agility of the Mugne are the biggest part of the car strong points. There are few weaknesses in this foundation. Quick response, good balancing and of course its great looks, this could be the perfect cruiser for anyone trying to make a staement and have the balls to back it up.

After a quick car wash and oil change, We brought the Mugen to the Dyno. Giving us 380hp and 324 lbs/ft. This is a lethal combination for the 400m and 1000m. Lets find out the results of today's testing.

400M - run #1 - 12.037 - 121mph
400M - run #2 - 11.991 - 121mph
400M - run #3 - 12.088 - 120mph

1000M - run #1 - 21.687 - 148mph
1000M - run #2 - 21.567 - 151mph

Through the eyes of the tuner, this is the real deal. The total package for them. Mugen has definately given itself some more respect with their S2000. It posted the best 400m and 1000m times and speeds, but it lacks one thing. It lacks the ability to pull it all together at the same time. It doesn't like to let go at all on turns, which inevitably hurt it in the long run.

Until next time, this is Miata13b coming direct from Trail Mountain. Good evening folks.
 
Turismo Vision

Miata13B reporting to you on the fourth installment of S2000 - Who reigns supreme. Spoon is setting up on the starting line at this point. Spirits are high with the Spoon team today. They seem confident and are going to take it slow at first. They spent a lot of time working on the turning ability of this car and out of the three cars, it has the least amount of power and is the heaviest. Can this combination overcome the opposition? We are going to find out.
Lap 1 - 1'27.354
With a problem reported with the exhaust system, Spoon still pulled off a pretty hot lap here. They pulled the car into the pits and replaced the straight pipe that was not properly tightened into position.
Lap 2 - 1'26.584
watching the car squat into the turns and tear threw them is an amazing sight. The Spoon seems to maintain their speed throughout the turns the best out of the three cars. Using an outside - inside - outside line it is able to keep the most momentum of the three. A quick pit consisting of a chamber adjustment and a tire change to super softs, the Spoon was ready for action.
Lap 3 - 1'25.583
Pulling through their second fastest lap, it is reported that the Spoon car should be able to shave off even more time on the lap. The final chicane turn, the Spoon lost the rear end for a fraction of a second.
Lap 4 - 1'25.288
This was the fastest lap recorded for the day. The Brake balance of this car is undescribable. Weight transfers so fast on this heavyweight of the group giving it more traction to use throughout the turn. With its fast gears and quick pickup, even being the least powered, it seems to make the perfect combo for racing.
Lap 5 - 1'26.192
With sealing the day with the quickest time around the course, Spoon is very proud of their achievements. The car just glides threw corners like a bird drifting against the wind.

Tested and approved by drivers, the Spoon has the most unmatched combination of pyshics to pull off being number one. It placed thrid in Torque and horsepower, also being the heaviest; still persistant cornering ability pays off in the end for Spoon.

After taking the Spoon to the car wash and went in for an oil change it came back to the 400m and 1000m with 376hp.

400M - run #1 - 12.143 - 120mph
400M - run #2 - 12.093 - 120mph
400M - run #3 - 12.039 - 120mph

1000M - run #1 - 21.803 - 147mph
1000M - run #2 - 21.825 - 147mph

Despite the slower times on the 400 and 1000m, the Spoon has the fastest gearing and the lowest top speed out of the three cars. It is remarkable the turning radious of the car. It goes to show, Races are won on the corners.

It has been real, It has been fun, it hasn't been real fun, Later from Miata13B!
 
Oh, back in the day when I was still completing the Proffesional league, I got my hands on the Spoon and Mugen S2000s, I had a ton of fun with them and Gill told me to try this out. So, I just started running this. Unfortunately now, the Miata is a metal block thanks to an SUV driver running it over at work, now I'm in need of a new car and possible new name. lol.
 
Tokyo R246, Medium Race Tires:
1. Spoon S2000(387hp): 1:43.271
2. Mugen S2000(380hp): 1:43.380
3. S2000 Type V(381hp): 1:44.017
4. Honda S2000 (375hp): 1:44.387
 
nice times, I gotta try to match those :), Looks like work for the next few days.
 
lol - I actually do that to get a feel of the car first. I'll run them on super slicks to see how the car is going to react on the track, then I run the super softs.
 
Mediumtires were what you used, Ok, I'll make sure to use those. BTW, were there any other restrictions that I need to abide by? like hp tops and suspension in use? I like racing without wall tapping and cutting any part of the course( at least two wheels on the same side of the car must be on the pavement at any one point in the whole lap.
 
not really, i fully tuned them, but if you wanna use my setup just to keep it fair here:

14.5/14.5
83(86)/83(86)
5/6
9/9
3.2/2.7
0.5/-0.5
3/4

24/18

LSD
5/20/10

whatever gears you like

ASM: 2*
TCS: 2*
*(just to keep a smooth line)
 
Well, It looks like we have an announcer in Miata 13b.
I drove all the cars and I can tell you that the S2000 is a very interesting car, in all of its forms.
In descending order as far as speed: The Honda S2000, Type V. I elected to only drive the Type V because I felt that the cars were not substantially different enough to warrant another lapping session.

The Type V felt very "tail-happy" to me. It seemed that it was trying to steer from the back. The polar moment was such that weight took a long time to transfer to the front. Then with the back end unloaded it started to come around too quickly. I never got completely comfortable with it. My book is missing so I don't remember my times. But this one was the slow-poke. Though, compared to the Spoon racecar it was atleast 2 sec faster per lap.

The Spoon car was very quick and very controlable. It entered corners well. It came out of the corners even better. I truly enjoyed driving it. Especially around SSR-5.

The car that shined was the Mugen. While the Spoon car was great, the Mugen was just a little bit better. It held the road like it was on rails. It just turned better, accelerated faster, and felt very concerted. It was as if Mugen took a Spoon car and improved it. My worst lap in the Mugen was faster than my best lap in the Spoon. I ran 1:25.xxx, on my first lap and my best lap in the Spoon was over 1:26.xxx.

I used the same suspension set-up on all three cars. All cars had super-soft tires (yes, I'm a wimp). I also used a 4.44 final drive on each car, with the Auto slider set to 25-27. For my testing purposes all cars were NA and had the exact same HP rating of 373 HP after much fiddling with the power mods to make things even.
If I get a wild hair, I will try to get the P/W ratios as close as possible and see what continued testing yeilds.

Among my observations. The Spoon is the heaviest car at 1100kg. The Mugen was the lightest at 1050kg. The Fully lightened Type V was 4 kg heavier than the Mugen. Each car had a distinct personality. All cars were quite quick, but for SSR-5 the Mugen stood out from the crowd.

In the immortal words of RoadHazzard:
Have a great drive.
 
Well, It looks like we have an announcer in Miata 13b.
I drove all the cars and I can tell you that the S2000 is a very interesting car, in all of its forms.
In descending order as far as speed: The Honda S2000, Type V. I elected to only drive the Type V because I felt that the cars were not substantially different enough to warrant another lapping session in the "plain" S2000.

The Type V felt very "tail-happy" to me. It seemed that it was trying to steer from the back. The polar moment was such that weight took a long time to transfer to the front. Then with the back end unloaded it started to come around too quickly. I never got completely comfortable with it. My book is missing so I don't remember my times. But this one was the slow-poke. Though, compared to the Spoon racecar it was atleast 2 sec faster per lap.

The Spoon car was very quick and very controlable. It entered corners well. It came out of the corners even better. I truly enjoyed driving it. Especially around SSR-5.

The car that shined was the Mugen. While the Spoon car was great, the Mugen was just a little bit better. It held the road like it was on rails. It just turned better, accelerated faster, and felt very concerted. It was as if Mugen took a Spoon car and improved it. My worst lap in the Mugen was faster than my best lap in the Spoon. I ran 1:25.xxx, on my first lap and my best lap in the Spoon was over 1:26.xxx.

I used the same suspension set-up on all three cars. All cars had super-soft tires (yes, I'm a wimp). I also used a 4.44 final drive on each car, with the Auto slider set to 25-27. For my testing purposes all cars were NA and had the exact same HP rating of 373 HP after much fiddling with the power mods to make things even.
If I get a wild hair, I will try to get the P/W ratios as close as possible and see what continued testing yeilds.

Among my observations. The Spoon is the heaviest car at 1100kg. The Mugen was the lightest at 1050kg. The Fully lightened Type V was 4 kg heavier than the Mugen. Each car had a distinct personality. All cars were quite quick, but for SSR-5 the Mugen stood out from the crowd.

In the immortal words of RoadHazzard:
Have a great drive.
 
You know, like the first lap that I did in each I said I thought the Mugen was going to be the one pretty much. It always felt to me the whole time that it could do better. For Some reason or another, I am able to move that Spoon much better around every turn. The Mugen took every straight away from the Spoon. Interesting that we have two different results.
 
Prolly, a result of different tuning and driving styles.
I don't believe that I'm all that fast. As a result, I prize extreme stability. The Mugen has the stability that the others lack. The Spoon, is much better at being on the edge of out of control. I have difficulty driving like that. I'm that guy that looks slow but cuts decent times.
 
I am right there with you. I would have to say I am a pack runner, not in the lead, but not taking the rear. I have also been tweaking that Spoon for a longtime to get it the way it is. I didn't mess around with the Mugen too much. I have had some great battles against the Griffith 500 in the Spoon. I like that out of control on the edge driving. One slip and it is over basically. It really goes to show at the beginning of races with the AI I have. Especially with all the rear end collisions I cause. lol - I did like the way the Mugen shifted weight and its fast response. Those were the two most important things to have. The Spoon is a little front heavy which makes it a little easier to get it around the corner. I am surprised that Mugen was given such a good car in this game, Mugen is a midline performance manufacture for Honda, factory direct tuner I think. Spoon is a higher end tuning company. Bias probably.
 
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