Interested in new car.

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BMW M-Lover

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Hello. Some of you may know this account is owned by my and Rick's friend, Micheal. However, Micheal and I, Logan, have decided to share the account.

Ok, now to my point.

I am looking for a European 4-door sports car. My price range is between $70K and $90K. But no lower than $60K really, nor above $80K. In other words, a sedan with some power and some luxury, and new. If I see a car that may be used, and that I like, I may consider it.

The only car I've looked at that is not European is the new Lexus GS430 which the one i made, totaled at $61-$62K.
So, I need some help on this.

Update 3-27-05:
I am now also looking for a used Sports Car Coupe. I'll look at anything used under $100K
Thanks for your help. 👍
 
actually, if you are interseted.
you might just want a regular Sports Sedan, and then sped the extra on tuning it to your liking.
 
Cadillac STS-V

Not Euro, but it's been tested on the same tracks as Euro cars, and it has Cadillac reliability. It'll also be in showrooms sometime soon, supposedly.
 
Ghost C
Cadillac STS-V

Not Euro, but it's been tested on the same tracks as Euro cars, and it has Cadillac reliability. It'll also be in showrooms sometime soon, supposedly.
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Didn't R&T do a test on that and 2 other V models?

I think I have it.
 
Having looked at and sat in the Cadillac at a local auto show, I think it's a joke. It may very well have Cadillac reliability (although I don't think that's really saying much), but it also has Cadillac build quality. And that's CERTAINLY not saying much. The one I sat in had a 1/4" wide strip of excess plastic running the entire length of the map pocket opening. The panel gaps weren't that great, and the paint had more orange peel than a fruit stand.

In fact, the only car with worse paint was the new Mustang... the paint on that thing was just pathetic. But I digress. The STS is still a joke.

You thought about an E55? I think either that or the M5 would be your best bet... you might also look for a used S55... I've heard good things about the new Jag XJR too.

You might consider the Lexus, but personally I don't like them. I've been in them (although not the GS) and they're too quiet for me. Too sterile. Too disconnected from the outside world. It's like a rolling isolation chamber, and it makes me rather uncomfortable.
 
BMW M-Lover
Hello. Some of you may know this account is owned by my and Rick's friend, Micheal. However, Micheal and I, Logan, have decided to share the account.

Ok, now to my point.

I am looking for a European 4-door sports car. My price range is between $70K and $90K. But no lower than $60K really, nor above $80K. In other words, a sedan with some power and some luxury, and new. If I see a car that may be used, and that I like, I may consider it.

The only car I've looked at that is not European is the new Lexus GS430 which the one i made, totaled at $61-$62K.
So, I need some help on this.

Update 3-27-05:
I am now also looking for a used Sports Car Coupe. I'll look at anything used under $100K
Thanks for your help. 👍
Click to expand...

2003 or '04 BMW M5 will suit you fine.
 
Isn't the Quattroporte a Maserati?

Maserati_Quattroporte.jpg
 
BlazinXtreme
Isn't the Quattroporte a Maserati?

Maserati_Quattroporte.jpg
Click to expand...
Yes, that's it.
The Quattro got me mixed up with Audi.

But I thought those were over $100K!
Logan will never go for one of these.
 
BMW M-Lover
Hello. Some of you may know this account is owned by my and Rick's friend, Micheal. However, Micheal and I, Logan, have decided to share the account.

Ok, now to my point.

I am looking for a European 4-door sports car. My price range is between $70K and $90K. But no lower than $60K really, nor above $80K. In other words, a sedan with some power and some luxury, and new. If I see a car that may be used, and that I like, I may consider it.

The only car I've looked at that is not European is the new Lexus GS430 which the one i made, totaled at $61-$62K.
So, I need some help on this.

Update 3-27-05:
I am now also looking for a used Sports Car Coupe. I'll look at anything used under $100K
Thanks for your help. 👍
Click to expand...


What are your priorities? Handling? Power? Comfort? Gizmos? Looks? How will you use the car? Is this car going to be a daily driver? Will it be tracked? etc...

Without knowing these things, all you're going to get is a list of other people's favorite cars. Don't forget you are shopping for yourself.

I myself would get an ultra-low milage E39 M5 and drop a 3.46 custom torsen (sedan) OR a lightly used 993 Turbo (coupe) for the kind of change you're looking to spend... but what do YOU need out of a car?


M
 
m-spec has good advice, heres a little more. why be afraid to buy used? you are just then limiting yourself to what current manufacturers are pimping out? there have been so many wonderful cars made, its not only about the newest. oh, and dont get a toyota, er lexus.

id say used M5, S600, jaguar S type R, or something of the sort. theyre all good. have a feeling you might like the refinement of a benz over the driving pleasure of the bimmer.

as for sports coupe, M coupe if you can stand the styling, i personally think its hot. $25-35k for a basically new S54 car, 315hp. Z06s go for a little over $30k last time i checked. or m next purchase, lol, an NSX. You can find them anywhere from 15 to 85, but should be able to fnd a very nice one for aroud the price of the other cars on my list. the ones under 30 are mostly all '91s. depends on your style bro. I dont think you need to spend much more, kindof a waste when these great cars are so cheap.

like M-spec said, these are cars on my personal list though, what do you want? oh and spend money wisely!
 
Geeky1
Having looked at and sat in the Cadillac at a local auto show, I think it's a joke. It may very well have Cadillac reliability (although I don't think that's really saying much), but it also has Cadillac build quality. And that's CERTAINLY not saying much. The one I sat in had a 1/4" wide strip of excess plastic running the entire length of the map pocket opening. The panel gaps weren't that great, and the paint had more orange peel than a fruit stand.
Click to expand...

That's the most crap I've seen in a long time. You're trying to tell a guy who owns a Cadillac about the quality of Cadillacs. I'm glad you sat in one for five minutes and thought you know everything there is to know about the brand, but you're wrong.

Don't base any decision on what this guy says.
 
Ghost C
That's the most crap I've seen in a long time. You're trying to tell a guy who owns a Cadillac about the quality of Cadillacs. I'm glad you sat in one for five minutes and thought you know everything there is to know about the brand, but you're wrong.

Don't base any decision on what this guy says.
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Yep.

JP Power Initial Quality Study 2004

Lexus (87)
Cadillac (93)
Jaguar (98)
Honda (99)
Buick (100)
....
Mercedes-Benz (106)
Audi (109)
BMW (109)

Industry Average: 119
..
Porsche (159)

Cadillac also scored high on the Vehicle Dependability Study, far better than the industry average.

Source: http://www.jdpower.com/special/powerreport/gm/GM_SPR.pdf and http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2004037

Sometimes people believe what they would like to believe rather than looking at the facts. Any recent Caddy is a solid product by any objective standard. The V-line cars are pretty exceptional when you factor in price.


M
 
///M-Spec
What are your priorities? Handling? Power? Comfort? Gizmos? Looks? How will you use the car? Is this car going to be a daily driver? Will it be tracked? etc...

Without knowing these things, all you're going to get is a list of other people's favorite cars. Don't forget you are shopping for yourself.

I myself would get an ultra-low milage E39 M5 and drop a 3.46 custom torsen (sedan) OR a lightly used 993 Turbo (coupe) for the kind of change you're looking to spend... but what do YOU need out of a car?


M
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This will be a daily driver, a sedan with some luxury, and maybe over 320 horses.
I would like a car that is made a manufacturer that has some record making good cars.

I just need something with 4 doors, power, and a good set of luxury.
 
LedaM3
m-spec has good advice, heres a little more. why be afraid to buy used? you are just then limiting yourself to what current manufacturers are pimping out? there have been so many wonderful cars made, its not only about the newest. oh, and dont get a toyota, er lexus.

id say used M5, S600, jaguar S type R, or something of the sort. theyre all good. have a feeling you might like the refinement of a benz over the driving pleasure of the bimmer.

as for sports coupe, M coupe if you can stand the styling, i personally think its hot. $25-35k for a basically new S54 car, 315hp. Z06s go for a little over $30k last time i checked. or m next purchase, lol, an NSX. You can find them anywhere from 15 to 85, but should be able to fnd a very nice one for aroud the price of the other cars on my list. the ones under 30 are mostly all '91s. depends on your style bro. I dont think you need to spend much more, kindof a waste when these great cars are so cheap.

like M-spec said, these are cars on my personal list though, what do you want? oh and spend money wisely!
Click to expand...

Its not that, I just feel like getting a new car instead of a used. My current coupe was bought used off DuPont Registry.com, but all in all, I wasn't exactly happy about the way many of the dealers I talked to on their site treated me.

Thankfully, Lamborghini of Dallas was where I finally found some service. I talked to 6 other dealers, 2 of which treated me like crap.
It may be because I don't want this to happen again.
NSXs are nice, but my friend, Mc, already has one, and although great, I wasn't to impressed with it when I drove it when it was stock. But that could have been b/c it was used.
I should trust Chevrolet today, now that the Vette has changed but I test drove a C5, and thought it could have been better.

And no, my current car is not a Lamborghini.
 
Ghost C
That's the most crap I've seen in a long time. You're trying to tell a guy who owns a Cadillac about the quality of Cadillacs. I'm glad you sat in one for five minutes and thought you know everything there is to know about the brand, but you're wrong.

Don't base any decision on what this guy says.
Click to expand...

Hey, I'm sorry you don't like my opinion. Bite me.

The fact of the matter is that I consider a 1/4" ribbon of plastic hanging off the map pocket to be a hell of a screw up. As is any significant orange peel texture in the paint on a $50k+ car. There's just no excuse for that. Now, maybe the dealer picked the worst one on the lot for the auto show so it wouldn't be as big of a deal if it were damaged or something... who knows. But the build quality of that particular STS was abysmal. And I know two people that had older (fwd) STSes... both got rid of them because they had problems out the wazoo.

As far as I'm concerned, most Cadillacs, like the vast majority of American cars in general, always have been, are now, and likely always will be vastly inferior to their European and Japanese counterparts. But that's just my opinion... I have reasons for why I feel that way (which I don't really feel like going into right now), but you are obviously entitled to disagree with me.

However, nothing you can say or do- no amount of studies, papers, articles or posts- will change my position. My mind is made up, the issue is closed for me.
 
Yes I have. And while it's an improvement over the old one, I don't think it's in the same class as the BMWs or Mercedes that it's supposed to compete with.

G.M., Ford, and Chrysler are run by bean counters... which results in cutting corners a lot of the time. The Corvette, the Viper, the GT, 300C, Magnum, and *maybe* the GTO are the exceptions here... they're all excellent cars. But for the most part, they're trying to cut costs and maximize profits as much as possible. And the result, more often than not, is a car that's not up to competing with the rest of the world.

Now, that being said... Mercedes is going downhill. When Lexus and Infinity began to seriously compete with them for customers, they had to cut costs... most people weren't (and aren't) willing to spend an extra $10k or $20k on a Mercedes when they can get a Lexus that's "almost" as good for $10-20k less. So, Mercedes is starting to do the same things that GM, Ford, and Chrysler have done for years... they're starting to cut corners on engineering and quality to save money. The S, CL, SL, and SLR are still mostly unaffected... the 2003 S600 my grandmother drives is a very solid car. Near perfect build quality and reliability. However, the cheaper models are really not as good as they used to be... if the trend continues, BMW, Audi and Porsche may be the only really good German car manufacturers left here in a few years...
 
Geeky1
Yes I have. And while it's an improvement over the old one, I don't think it's in the same class as the BMWs or Mercedes that it's supposed to compete with.

G.M., Ford, and Chrysler are run by bean counters... which results in cutting corners a lot of the time. The Corvette, the Viper, the GT, 300C, Magnum, and *maybe* the GTO are the exceptions here... they're all excellent cars. But for the most part, they're trying to cut costs and maximize profits as much as possible. And the result, more often than not, is a car that's not up to competing with the rest of the world.

Now, that being said... Mercedes is going downhill. When Lexus and Infinity began to seriously compete with them for customers, they had to cut costs... most people weren't (and aren't) willing to spend an extra $10k or $20k on a Mercedes when they can get a Lexus that's "almost" as good for $10-20k less. So, Mercedes is starting to do the same things that GM, Ford, and Chrysler have done for years... they're starting to cut corners on engineering and quality to save money. The S, CL, SL, and SLR are still mostly unaffected... the 2003 S600 my grandmother drives is a very solid car. Near perfect build quality and reliability. However, the cheaper models are really not as good as they used to be... if the trend continues, BMW, Audi and Porsche may be the only really good German car manufacturers left here in a few years...
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Sorry but I was talkin to BMW M-Lover. Sorry.
 
Geeky1
Hey, I'm sorry you don't like my opinion. Bite me.
Click to expand...

Okay. You've both had a word in now. Let's not escalate this, please.

Geeky1
As far as I'm concerned, most Cadillacs, like the vast majority of American cars in general, always have been, are now, and likely always will be vastly inferior to their European and Japanese counterparts. But that's just my opinion... I have reasons for why I feel that way (which I don't really feel like going into right now), but you are obviously entitled to disagree with me.
Click to expand...

Geeky1
G.M., Ford, and Chrysler are run by bean counters... which results in cutting corners a lot of the time. The Corvette, the Viper, the GT, 300C, Magnum, and *maybe* the GTO are the exceptions here... they're all excellent cars. But for the most part, they're trying to cut costs and maximize profits as much as possible. And the result, more often than not, is a car that's not up to competing with the rest of the world.
Click to expand...

I'm going to let you in on something. Mercedes-Benz, BMW, VAG Group, etc. answer to the same type of bean counters that Ford and GM do. In fact, Chrysler answers to the same EXACT GERMAN bean counters as Mercedes since they have been the same company for some time now. What do you think? That Germans don't want to make money?? :lol:

I hate to burst your bubble, but any knowledgable German car enthusiast will tell you cost cutting measures are all over their beloved vehicles.

My 1995 BMW M3, at the time, flagship of the M brand in the US and recipient of countless awards had a water pump with a impeller shaft made of PLASTIC. That's right. A critical engine component exposed to high stress and extreme temperate in the Ultimate Driving Machine was made of the same stuff they make Happy Meal toys out of. Why? They were too cheap to use aluminum. The result? Water pump failure ~50,000 miles. BMW didn't fix this until MY1997, 6 model years after they've been used in six-cylinder E36s.

I could make a list a mile long with other examples of frugalty and poor engineering choices in numerous BMWs (and Benzs and even Porsches). Ask a 318 owner about his/her profile gasket. Or a Boxster owner about the cheap plastic rear window or shoddily designed top mechanism or main crank seal that leaks oil. Or a 540i E34 V8 owner about his disintegrating nikasil engine block.

Mechanical reliability? I picked up my current car, a 2004 330i ZHP with 3 miles on the odometer. By 800 miles, both front brake rotors were warped. 800 Easy Break In Miles. At 3500 miles, a faulty ignition coil caused the car to run on 5 cylinders and scared the bejesus out of my wife because she thought she'd killed my brand new car. Don't even get me started on the ECU programming that causes the car to randomly STALL after a warm start on a hot day, which they just now fixed after the ZHP has been available for 1.5 years. Before you think that I bought a lemon, any cursory glance at a BMW website will show that plenty of late model BMW owners have little dumb problems like this. Ridiculous on a $40,000+ car that is near the end of it's model cycle. Ridiculous.

Yes, it drives like no other car and I love it despite it's shortcomings. Fact of the matter is BMW still designs cars that I want to drive. Putting it together well seems to be an issue for them, however. MB, Audi, etc have the same problems. GM, Ford and Chysler have come a long way since the '70s and '80s. If you think German build quality and mechanical reliability is far beyond US and Japanese counterparts, you really should get out in the real world sometime.


Geeky1
However, nothing you can say or do- no amount of studies, papers, articles or posts- will change my position. My mind is made up, the issue is closed for me.
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Truth > Dogma.


M
 
///M-Spec
Check out an Audi A8. E55, Quattroporte or M5 might be a little too sport biased for you.


M
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You don't believe the Cadillac STS would be a good candidate? I was thinking CTS but that is more sporty then the STS is.
 

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