Interior View: Camera TILTING need to be fixed

  • Thread starter HKS racer
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^ And you seem to be confused about what some people are saying. It's not about exact realism, it's about ergonomics. In real life you have gravity and all kinds of spatial awareness and peripheral senses to feel what's going on, but you obviously cannot have that in a game, therefore it's important to find some way to visually communicate what is happening. Without a steering wheel, it is hard to feel when a GT5 car is bogging down, losing grip etc.. iRacing's view seems to help to communicate that.

I'm sure this quote was for the guy above me. However, I think people are completely going overboard with the desires for GT5 to be exactly like real life even though it's classified as a sim.

It's NOT real.

You are not ever going to get the same sense of speed, the same sound or the same feedback as real life without some form of
3-d dimensional controls/cockpit which places true, physical g-forces against your body.
 
PD did this on purpose, and Kaz even talked about it. Personally I find it a pretty cool and realistic touch, although it definitely is distracting, hence why I don't usually race from interior view. Ever driven a car at high speed or quickly around a turn? Even a surface that seemed smooth before will suddenly reveal bumps and vibrations that you never knew were there. Now in real life your eyes/brain automatically filter out the vibrations and smooth out your vision so you don't necessarily notice it, but if you watch in-car footage from a race you'll see it looks nearly identical. I think it's cool and wouldn't want them to remove it.

I completely agree. I love racing in interior view. The Iracing camera is way too smooth. It makes it look like your head is always perfectly balanced. GT5 is more realistic. In real life, you keep your head at the same basic natural position to your body.. When the car tilts and turns, the muscles in your neck try to keep your head from moving to much, but it takes a while to react to changes and move the mass of your head when the changes are random and frequent. GT5 makes your eyes do the work of trying to keep the track focused in your vision, like in real ife.

 
^ The thing is, your eyes in GT5 behave like your head is pressed against the side window. I don't hate GT5's cockpit view, but I think iRacing have a more ergonomic one. Something halfway between the two would be nice :)

On the other hand, the iRacing view makes it seem like your head has a perfect gyroscope. So yeah, the car is moving, but it also looks incredibly unnatural.
 
The iRacing cockpit view looks so dull and plain. GT5's camera shaking is perfect as it is. Wouldn't be bad if they reduced the shaking a just bit for high speed corners like indy. The shaking seems a bit exaggerated on that track.

Edit: Seriously I love the cockpit view camera shaking, it makes the game look so nice and natural. Just try turning HUD off and enjoy the view.
 
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I completely agree. I love racing in interior view. The Iracing camera is way too smooth. It makes it look like your head is always perfectly balanced. GT5 is more realistic. In real life, you keep your head at the same basic natural position to your body.. When the car tilts and turns, the muscles in your neck try to keep your head from moving to much, but it takes a while to react to changes and move the mass of your head when the changes are random and frequent. GT5 makes your eyes do the work of trying to keep the track focused in your vision, like in real ife.



dont knot if its because of the camera he's using but it looks like he's taking a sunday drive. watch this one to see how much the driver shakes, i think pd got it spot on, at least for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJj8atDGBzk&feature=related
 
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Another thread where everyone wants to ignore the truth just because they don't like it. Quit comparing the cockpit view to a video, it is not the same as what you perceive. As stated, your brain compensates for movement. The view of the track should remain MOSTLY still while the interior bounces around. I say mostly because a hard impact would jar your entire view.
I don't think the movement could be simulated correctly anyway because the amount of percieved movement varies with the distance from your eyes. Example, while looking at this screen, put your hand up about 6" away from your face partially blocking your view. Now jiggle your head a little from side to side. Your hand seems to move a lot doesn't it. Notice that the screen stays still and that objects closer to the screen move less and less. NASCAR Racing 2005 did this somewhat, where the steering wheel, column and guages moved on different layers ( not completely 3d, but they were trying ).
 
Yes they got it ALLL WRONG, they are completly stupid if you as me.
Sure everythign shakes and bounces when you are racing BUT:

We got this little thign in our head that detects any changes in gravity or motion and it gives us balance. It also balances out our view on the world in case we get shaken up like in a race car. Be it all till some extend.

Think they do not know this in Japan.... this so called simulation of head movement is puire bollox and it gives me a headache and feel sick when watching it so I can NOT drive in cockpit view because of it...bollox !
 
And to the guy posting a video of a CAMERA ATTACHED TO A HELMET clearly has no clue......what the hell has that has to do with OUR PERCEPTION of the world trough our...and here it comes....EYES !!

Nothing indeed, you go sit in a race car, drive like a manaiac around the track and tell me agian if your whole world shakes lol...it wont unless your body is working differently then millions of others.
 
Step 1: Get in a car IRL
Step 2: Go over 100 MPH (160 KPH)
Step 3: Tell me with a straight face that your view is shaking all over the place like it does in GT5. You won't be able to. It will shake much less and will be reminiscent of. . . wait for it. . . iRacing!

Having gone over 135 MPH on bumpy roads here in the 49th State (Be it for a very short time. Didn't want police to see me goin that fast.), I feel that the GT5 cockpit is over-exaggerated and unrealistic. I go 135 in GT5, I can barely see because of the unrealistic camera shake.
 
I completely agree. I love racing in interior view. The Iracing camera is way too smooth. It makes it look like your head is always perfectly balanced. GT5 is more realistic. In real life, you keep your head at the same basic natural position to your body.. When the car tilts and turns, the muscles in your neck try to keep your head from moving to much, but it takes a while to react to changes and move the mass of your head when the changes are random and frequent. GT5 makes your eyes do the work of trying to keep the track focused in your vision, like in real ife.

In my opinion, compared to PC-sims, the force feedback in older wheels (mine is a DFP) is worse and so you get not enough feedback in cockpit, what the car does.

Here I´ve driven a Porsche 935 around Nordschleife (graphics are out of date, but cockpit feeling is great). You can see how the cam is not just shaking, but the head is moving and together with the great FFB is feels very realistic. Everything looks a bit smoother.



And now, after posting this, I know its also the lag of ffb, which lets me not handle GT5 in cokcpit as good as other sims.
 
And to the guy posting a video of a CAMERA ATTACHED TO A HELMET clearly has no clue......what the hell has that has to do with OUR PERCEPTION of the world trough our...and here it comes....EYES !!

Nothing indeed, you go sit in a race car, drive like a manaiac around the track and tell me agian if your whole world shakes lol...it wont unless your body is working differently then millions of others.

What I was suggesting is that having the camera this way make your PHYSICAL eyes do the work of staying focused, rather than having VIRTUAL eyes do everything.

If someone is getting motion sickness from the camera, wouldn't that mean that in some way the game is conveying the sense of motion? Especially with the HUD off, I find myself analyzing the track ahead of me like I would analyze the road ahead of me in real life, using my physical eyes to focus on the track.
 
In order to do this completely right, there would have to be a camera in the car, a camera on the helmet and a camera that acts as eyes. They'd have to be independent of one another, but all three would have to have knowledge of each of the others. The car would shake, the head would react to the shaking, and the "eyes" would attempt to compensate for both. I think PD's done a decent job of imparting the idea, though. It's not perfect, but it's pretty cool.
 
It's the right idea in some ways, but PD over-exaggerated this effect way too much.

They should use the same effect as now, but give about 10% to the view of the road ahead and about 30% to 40% to the interior of the car (but more smoothed out to simulate actual bumps).

The rest of the motion is just too much, leave it out. Nothing looks like that in real life except the view from a camera mounted directly to the car, or MAYBE if you had prescription glasses on. I know the difference because after thirty years of having a very strong prescription for glasses, I got laser vision correction and have better than 20/20 vision now. There's a shaking effect to your view of the world if you have prescription glasses and are doing anything like running, etc.. Without glasses there is no shaking at all, and if there is it is minimal. I also wore contacts before laser eye surgery and even contacts shake on your eyes, but not much.. having 20/20 vision without lenses is still different.

Kaz said it himself, he's trying to simulate the FEELING you get from the up and down motion.. The problem is you cannot successfully duplicate a feeling with visual effects. If they just concentrated on reproducing what we SEE, it would look better, and even "feel" better. Our brains would interpret the correct movement of the car interior and the world outside and fill in the rest.

The way they did it is just vertically shaking the camera. It's a clumsy, lazy, and over simplified way of getting across that feeling and basically ruins cockpit view. rFactor does it better, but it's adjustable in that game.

One thing's for sure, the effect should be either adjustable in GT5 (with a slider), or an option. And no it doesn't make me motion sick, it's just unrealistic and annoying.
 
That's not realistic either.

At speed, your head moves. In the video you're showing, the virtual "head" (i.e. your point of view) is remaining absolutely still and the car is shaking around it. That's less realistic than what PD has done where they're simulating what happens during a real race where the driver's head is what shakes. Since the system can't shake the chair you're in, they need to "shake" the outside view in order to properly mimic the effect of the driver's head bouncing around.

But this is totally WRONG imho, you can't simulate a physical feeling with a graphic effect, the result, no matter how time and effort you put into will never be realistic, it's "artificial" you know, Yamauchi can't give us the G-force of a real race car, not yet at least. Look to Mark Webber's RedBull simulator, they have a structure which try to simulate G force, that is the right way, of course that thing is insanely expensive but if you wonna try to simulate a physical effect you need something that shacke YOU not the screen. That's why iRacing did a pretty good job, they give us the car shacking feeling first of all without any "artificial effect".
Somewhere there is a product called "butt kicker" which try to simulate the bumbs of the road, forgetting the loughable, name this thing is just one of the 1st try to bring us some "road feedback"..
 
If there is one thing I want from the cockpit view is to be able to adjust your head height and head angle. Sometimes it feels like I'm shaq in a small car. And sometimes it feels like I'm a dwarf. Or the view is looking too much to the left or right. It should just have an option where you can use dials to adjust all these areas of the cockpit view.
 
I love the cockpit view and use it almost exclusively. But the camera shake sometimes gives me a headache.

Please spend some time on this issue.

Sincerely,

zqxwjv
 
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