IRS GT4 Championship Season 3 - Pro Champ - Timlour, Pro-Am Champ - Clean Racer

  • Thread starter Thread starter Clean Racer
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I know I lack tact sometimes. For that I can only apologize. The point remains that we can do a better job policing this than the game ever could.
 
I'll say this, I've raced in a lot of leagues and very often the fastest guys will bend track limits beyond comprehension unapologetically and then get defensive when called out with the ol you're not a racer if you're not pushing the limit. This has been consistent across most leagues from gt prologue til now. So we can accept the challenge of pouring through replays and counting cuts for each driver or set off track penalties to weak and move on. Pretty sure all of the issues this week were contact related anyway so we may have to adapt until pd fixes this but this is the first time in 3 seasons it's been an issue. Everybody just relax.

As for the AWD cars, I'm grabbing a pitchfork. I think if anything less cars was a fix but hell I'll still race.
 
Whitey093
I'll say this, I've raced in a lot of leagues and very often the fastest guys will bend track limits beyond comprehension unapologetically and then get defensive when called out with the ol you're not a racer if you're not pushing the limit.
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So that's what it takes to be D1 or D2 in SNAIL? :sly:
 
I just re-watched a portion of the replay and here is what I've seen so far:

On lap 6 @DesertPenguin gets pushed off line after contact.

@CPT_RowdyGiff rear ends me (we both get damage) and as a result pushed me into DP. DP is forced off-line through the chicane. In fact, through two sections of that one chicane and gets a 2 second time penalty for it. None of it is his fault of course. Then, later on in that same lap he goes wide on his own and picks up a .7 second additional penalty. There are no changes in position as a result of any of this.

I'll keep watching but I believe that as @Whitey093 said. Most of this nonsense was contact related.
 
DesertPenguin
So that's what it takes to be D1 or D2 in SNAIL? :sly:
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^^^this

Frustrating as all hell as someone on the bottom end trying to hang. Not all guys do this but enough to be irritating. This is why, personally, I get the desire to just turn on short cut penalties and be done. When I was helping run snail gt1 I would have to watch the entire 50 minute race each week from each cars perspective and count the cuts on an excel spreadsheet to determine total penalty time to add. Yeah I burnt out on that real quick.
 
Clean Racer
@CPT_RowdyGiff rear ends me (we both get damage) and as a result pushed me into DP. DP is forced off-line through the chicane. In fact, through two sections of that one chicane and gets a 2 second time penalty for it. None of it is his fault of course. Then, later on in that same lap he goes wide on his own and picks up a .7 second additional penalty. There are no changes in position as a result of any of this.
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Exactly. It might not always affect positions but it's just annoying.
 
Whitey093
^^^this

Frustrating as all hell as someone on the bottom end trying to hang. Not all guys do this but enough to be irritating. This is why, personally, I get the desire to just turn on short cut penalties and be done. When I was helping run snail gt1 I would have to watch the entire 50 minute race each week from each cars perspective and count the cuts on an excel spreadsheet to determine total penalty time to add. Yeah I burnt out on that real quick.
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That's a damn shame. I thought SNAIL was better than that.
 
They're the best. That's the problem, its pervasive. If you really watch the replays this stuff happens a lot in races and most people don't bat an eye. It's never overly blatant, just enough. Over 90 minutes that can add up heaps. If we didnt have cut penalties on at Barcelona that chicane would have been cut badly and everyone would have just followed along. Trust me that would have happened. The amount of penalties the game gave out there was telling and I earned a few and believe me I earned them. I wasn't trying to cut, the line is just so fine.

Edit: I'm not accusing people in here of being cheaters it's just a slippery slope. If one person is gaining an advantage everyone has to follow.
 
Whitey093
If we didnt have cut penalties on at Barcelona that chicane would have been cut badly and everyone would have just followed along. Trust me that would have happened.
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Not with me. I wasn't taking the line I was taking through there every lap to avoid the penalty, that was just the line I chose to run.
Whitey093
If one person is gaining an advantage everyone has to follow.
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I choose not to. ;) It's makes more of a statement if you can be fast without resorting to questionable tactics.
 
Here is a video. It's just a small example of how the penalties for off track get magnified by unintentional contact that pushes someone off track:



I am posting this video to illustrate why I believe that what @Whitey093 stated is correct. That most of the severe penalties for track limits may have been caused by contact.

This post is NOT meant to call anyone out for their driving. It was a phenomenal race and I had a blast battling with @CPT_RowdyGiff @DesertPenguin @racefan88 and @GTP_Guido
 
@Clean Racer. Here is a clip from my live stream of the penalty. It was NOT for cutting track. You can see the game says I “forced another car off track” when I got bumped off track. I think you need to put faith in the group and turn off penalties, otherwise I think you will see this weekly until they patch it again and break it more.
Edit. You run the league so you do what you think is best. Keep in mind this was also our first race since the Jan 28th “sport mode & lobby - fixed an issue wherein collisions between cars were not incurring a penalty”. I’m willing to bet you will see the same things next week.
 
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I have really found this an interesting debate to watch and I don’t like to give my 2 cents on things that I think should be up to the organizers. But after seeing the video above I do feel I should at least say my opinion.

After watching the video from @CPT_RowdyGiff I feel there is a tough argument to make For keeping penalties for 2 reasons. 1) I think myself and @CPT_RowdyGiff had “normal racing” last lap contact thus he should not have had the penalty, which @Clean Racer removed. But 2) In the last lap after seeing @CPT_RowdyGiff had a penalty I made the decision not to go for a pass and risk contact/a penalty of my own knowing that if I just finished on his bumper the penalty would put him behind me anyway.

This is the first series I have raced in with penalties and until this race felt like it neither added or took away anything.

At the end of the day I feel we need to treat our online racing here in this series like club racing not top tier Motorsport (even though some of the drivers have top tier speed and the event organization is top notch). Meaning that we have a responsibility to each other to follow the rules and also a responsibility to self police and report incidents of track limits. 1 or 2 track limits violations where time is lost anyway will never hurt anyone. If a driver is deliberately and pervasively breaching track limits to gain an advantage I would like to hope another driver would see it and raise it for review to the stewards.
 
racefan88
I think myself and @CPT_RowdyGiff had “normal racing” last lap contact thus he should not have had the penalty
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If Pd didn’t screw up the penalty system I don’t think there would have been the penalty.

racefan88
If a driver is deliberately and pervasively breaching track limits to gain an advantage I would like to hope another driver would see it and raise it for review to the stewards.
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Exactly. I know if I saw someone doing something that gives them an advantage beyond the rules I will report it. And with not having a “penalty zone” like sport mode, you never know when someone is gonna try to clear some and ghost, or come out of ghost and I know it really messes me up. Plus it’s not real.

I’m just saying for the ease of not having to deal with this stuff, I think we should turn them off until we confirm the system works correctly. I know if I was the organizer I wouldn’t want to have to review a crap load of penalties and try to figure out how to fairly remove bs penalties after the race is done because that is near impossible to fix.
 
CPT_RowdyGiff
If Pd didn’t screw up the penalty system I don’t think there would have been the penalty.



Exactly. I know if I saw someone doing something that gives them an advantage beyond the rules I will report it. And with not having a “penalty zone” like sport mode, you never know when someone is gonna try to clear some and ghost, or come out of ghost and I know it really messes me up. Plus it’s not real.

I’m just saying for the ease of not having to deal with this stuff, I think we should turn them off until we confirm the system works correctly. I know if I was the organizer I wouldn’t want to have to review a crap load of penalties and try to figure out how to fairly remove bs penalties after the race is done because that is near impossible to fix.
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This imo is what works best. PD Penalty system is way too inconsistent. Peer to peer governance over one another (track limits, contact, etc) is what I rely on in my series and has worked great. Do drivers make contact at times?: Yes. Do drivers stretch the track limits a lap here there?: I'm sure. But, if a driver felt slighted or placed at enough of a disadvantage, it is their responsibility to file an ir. I have it specifically stated, stewards will not seek out penalties in any way, and that all drivers within my series are to hold one another accountable by filing an ir at their discretion. I doubt I'll ever rely on the game penalty system.
 
The only worst case scenarios I can think of is when someone is on track with no one in sight, in particular way in the lead or far behind. The guy in the lead may take some liberties if he knows there's no one behind to see it, and the guy in the back may do it to make up some ground.
 
DesertPenguin
The only worst case scenarios I can think of is when someone is on track with no one in sight, in particular way in the lead or far behind. The guy in the lead may take some liberties if he knows there's no one behind to see it, and the guy in the back may do it to make up some ground.
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I dont think its gonna be like that in this group of people and your free to save the replay watch it and report any incidents you see weather it involves you or not. It's not like people are gonna think no ones watching this because there is a permanent record of the driving available to anyone who saves the replay.
 
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DesertPenguin
The only worst case scenarios I can think of is when someone is on track with no one in sight, in particular way in the lead or far behind. The guy in the lead may take some liberties if he knows there's no one behind to see it, and the guy in the back may do it to make up some ground.
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I don't think I would want someone like that participating in my series.
 
DesertPenguin
Me neither, it's just the only hypothetical I can think of where someone might seek an advantage by cutting a little bit each lap. I too don't think anyone here has that mentality.
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I think with the majority of drivers that we all run with hold themselves to a certain standard and accountability as well. Bad sportsmanship and racecraft are labels that dont go away easily, and once a poor reputation is earned for bending or breaking the rules, it is difficult to change that perception among our peer group. This imo is the greatest deterant, and why I think most of us hold ourselves to a certain integrity and sportsmanlike manner within the series we participate.
 
Track limit penalties will remain on weak.

Let's try not to rear end each other, cause damage and push one another off track.

From watching the replay there were quite a few times where guys had some side by side and front to rear contact but noone went off and no penalty was issued by the game.

It may sound harsh but the fact of the matter is the limits are the same for everyone. Two seasons and track limits have never decided a finish position or race. Until @racefan88 and @CPT_RowdyGiff on the final lap of this race. That was easy to remedy.

I get that other series don't run track limits. That's great. This is it's own series.

Brands Hatch is a tight track. Last Season we had at least 11 driver's start the race and there were very few collisions. In fact, I don't think there were any. The field is larger this year and much closer in lap times. Folks should remain patient and try to avoid bumping each other off track.
 
Clean Racer
Two seasons and track limits have never decided a finish position or race.
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I don't usually intervene bit I will have to say something here. Also note I do mean this respectfully.

This statement isn't 100% accurate.

Any time you are given a bogus penalty it does effect your race and finishing position. Whether the effect is big or small it just does. Several of my "track cut" penalties were not entirely accurate and when you slow down to bleed off .5sec of penalty you are actually slowing down 1sec to 1.25sec total time(slowing down/getting back up to speed/finding ways to bleed off penalty). Any race I or anyone has done where they had to bleed off any incorrect penalty takes away from their potential performance and/or finishing order. Pro teams spend a lot of mind power assessing increments of seconds because if you don't total time can get you in the end.


Now that is said, understand I will race with whatever is set up. I don't mind. I also respect the fact that we all can share our thoughts and respect each others view on the subject even if we don't agree at times. That is what makes us good humans and in turn makes up good organizations. So regardless of the route we take thanks for listening and hosting monday night gt4 series. Again, I only replied because that quoted statement is not true and would like an open mind kept about that. I would accurately say though that I can't think of any bodies night being "ruined" because of it. But for sure it has taken effect on possible positions gained or lost. You just can't rule it out.
 
Rules have been updated:

  1. Time penalties across the board have all been cut in half.
  2. Drivers who get damage must turn on their hazard lights IF they intend to pit for repairs right away.
  3. If you get damage from getting hit and you don't pit by the end of the following lap - the striking driver will no longer be required to pit with you and they can resume racing at a normal pace.
  4. If a driver is struck, gets pushed off track and is assessed a penalty they are free to continue racing - if it is determined that the penalty time added by the game was applied in error said time will be deducted from their overall finish time. Unless you have damage it makes more sense to keep racing - like @Timlour did at Catalunya.
 
Moby45
I don't usually intervene bit I will have to say something here. Also note I do mean this respectfully.

This statement isn't 100% accurate.

Any time you are given a bogus penalty it does effect your race and finishing position. Whether the effect is big or small it just does. Several of my "track cut" penalties were not entirely accurate and when you slow down to bleed off .5sec of penalty you are actually slowing down 1sec to 1.25sec total time(slowing down/getting back up to speed/finding ways to bleed off penalty). Any race I or anyone has done where they had to bleed off any incorrect penalty takes away from their potential performance and/or finishing order. Pro teams spend a lot of mind power assessing increments of seconds because if you don't total time can get you in the end.


Now that is said, understand I will race with whatever is set up. I don't mind. I also respect the fact that we all can share our thoughts and respect each others view on the subject even if we don't agree at times. That is what makes us good humans and in turn makes up good organizations. So regardless of the route we take thanks for listening and hosting monday night gt4 series. Again, I only replied because that quoted statement is not true and would like an open mind kept about that. I would accurately say though that I can't think of any bodies night being "ruined" because of it. But for sure it has taken effect on possible positions gained or lost. You just can't rule it out.
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Let me clarify my statement:

Two seasons and track limit penalties have never decided race position at the end of a race.

I can't account for where a driver could have "potentially" finished in a race had penalties been off. I don't believe anyone can. That is getting into hypotheticals.

One thing is certain. Drivers should try not to get these cut track penalties - the limits are the same for everyone. Practice with them on.
 

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