Is a Ferrari a Real Car?

[Pupik]

^ I think it's roughly 99.99 for the basic service at a Nissan dealer; have brakes and suspension inspected, et cetera. The LOF service alone is likely $70 or so, for full-synthetic. Of course, DIY is cheaper.

Tires ain't cheap on the Z, mainly because they use a staggered fitment front to rear, which likely necessitates replacement sooner than your average car (although typical for a sports-car, and even many recent sport-sedans). Toss in an alignment (yes, front toe goes out very easily on even a naturally-driven Nissan, they specify rather narrow ranges of +/- toe for some reason), and it's understandable to see a Z-car for new shoes that price, although were I lived, 30k miles is an absolute stretch on a set.

Depending on your age and experience, I would also make sure I was really ready to handle a Ferrari; even if driving it at 7/10s, and with a wealth of experience behind the wheel, the result might be a wreck (or worse) when approaching the limits of the car. Some seat time at a racing school will help you greatly appreciate the nuances of an exotic car (if you have plenty of track experience and have owned a few top-notch sports-cars, just ignore this).

 

[AOS-]

After reading all this, I don't think I'll ever want to own an exotic in my life, ever. Thanks for killing my dreams, guys.

 

[McLaren]

That's really the thing, owning a ferrari means you have money - and that means you're going to get soaked every time you need work done on it and for all parts. It's also a magnet for cops (who are not going to give you a warning) and something that needs to look perfect because it's going to attract an amazing amount of attention. When was the last time you saw a dirty ferrari? When was the last time a ferrari went by and you didn't look at it? Also, be prepared for some ugliness if you stiff the valet or car wash guy.... and by "stiff" I mean "give them a $5".

Not to offend, but you are describing the people who really only buy these cars for 1 purpose & that's the name.

True enthusiasts do not care what others think of their cars, nor do most of these knowledgeable owners ever let a valet touch their cars. There are men on FChat who really drive these cars, 1 in particular who with his employee, makes frequent drives from Washington to California in a 6-speed SV & an older Diablo GT. These are real enthusiasts who are not bothered by dirty cars. We have a local here who just took a 997 GT3 from DFW to LA to Seattle & back. His only complaints never concerned the car; he bought it to be used, not sit in his garage waiting for some track day. 6,000 miles & 10 days later, it is back in DFW still being used without any issues.

I'm just going to come out and say it. The reason these cars don't get driven every day is because it would be stupid to do so. Many people in this thread have been criticizing owners for leaving their ferraris in the garage, but honestly a ferrari isn't as good at driving back and forth to work as cars that cost a fraction of the price to own and maintain. Why spend gobs of money to be uncomfortable cruising at 60 mph down the freeway when you could spend a lot less and have a better experience. Save the ferrari for what it's meant for, driving hard and showing off.

It depends on what you call "uncomfortable". A track model, for sure, but a F430, California, 458, more than comfortable enough; they have to be.

As Mr. Cats says, buy a poster if you want to look at them. They are meant to be driven. His SV has already surpassed 14,000 miles in the year he's owned it; that's beyond the average amount of miles per year for most cars.

Most people use cars like sledgehammers. They pound all of their transportation needs down with one blunt instrument. Ferraris are scalpels. You use them surgically where they are needed at the things they are good at. You don't take them to the grocery store, you don't load it up with a bag of dirt, maybe you don't even drive it when it's raining outside. Why not? Because you're saving it for when it really matters - because that makes sense when you own a car that's designed for speed. Would it be good in the rain? Yes. Would you get your money's worth out of it when you're driving it in the rain? or would you worry about visibility and putting it into a guard rail and decide to take it easy?

Again, a real enthusiast does not care about such things. You're looking at it from the view point of people who buy them only for show & to get late night phone numbers.

Supercars today can be driven for other purposes than to just go fast for 1 day out of the month. It requires money to do so, but nowhere near as much as it did in the 90's. Reliability & usability is a selling point now-a-days for these cars and is where Audi's hand in Lamborghini & the other marques has made the most effective turning point for the companies.

There is a major reason the Gallardo did manage to sale well, & it was more than just being the baby Lamborghini.

 

[JJ72]

I'm sorry, what?!

$1200 tires?
$100 oil? (not to mention you're changing it far too often at 3k miles)

A full set for semi slicks costs $230 at most over here.

Dunno what he puts on his car would cost that much.

 

[Kylehnat]

The stock Bridgestones are $290 each (sport package 245-19 front, 275-19 rear). You can find slightly cheaper tires from reputable makers, but you're not going to change the tires on a Z for less than $800-$900. If you avoid the smokey burnouts and track days, you can maybe get 30,000 miles out of a set (and as Pupik says, frequent alignments are a must). This is a common sports-car expense, and is becoming more common amongst Audis, BMW's, etc--the tires don't cost $50.

 

[Carlos]

I would buy a Porsche for daily use.. And for circuit use too.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pors...f27QQitemZ180676947751QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

And since this car is alot cheaper, with the money left I bought Euro bumpers and maybe some upgrades..

Looks much better than a F430 too! And you got to love that gearbox!

 

[Danoff]

Not to offend, but you are describing the people who really only buy these cars for 1 purpose & that's the name.

True enthusiasts do not care what others think of their cars...

Again, a real enthusiast does not care about such things...

Are real enthusiasts made of money? Because you describe someone who does not care about how much money his car costs. I don't care how rich you are, it matters when you put 6k mi on your Lambo.

Edit:

Also, there is a definite condescending tone in your post. A real enthusiast doesn't care about groceries. A real enthusiast would put a bag of topsoil in his ferrari. A real enthusiast would put 6000 highway miles on his ferrari even though that just cost him $10,000.

 

[Carlos]

A real enthusiast wouldn't buy such a car at all.. A real enthusiast would buy something much more hardcore.. I think (I would), real enthusiast drive cars that are actually hard to drive on the streets.. A real enthusiast doesn't drive a F430, a real enthusiast drives something special.. Some one in a Golf MK1 GTi in perfect condition is an enthusiast, some guy who thinks he is an enthusiast drives an F430.

 

[JJ72]

Are real enthusiasts made of money? Because you describe someone who does not care about how much money his car costs. I don't care how rich you are, it matters when you put 6k mi on your Lambo

I know many people who doesn't, frankly.

Because for them it's money they will spend anyway, might just be on anything.

 

[McLaren]

Are real enthusiasts made of money? Because you describe someone who does not care about how much money his car costs. I don't care how rich you are, it matters when you put 6k mi on your Lambo.

No, it doesn't unless you're one of those people who buy the car just for poon & attention. These people are not enthusiasts, they are why the cars are never driven & why they get traded in for the next thing.

Roy has proved time & time again, exotics are built to be driven. For him, if you can't afford the maintenance later on, you shouldn't buy the car to begin with.

A real enthusiast wouldn't buy such a car at all.. A real enthusiast would buy something much more hardcore.. I think (I would), real enthusiast drive cars that are actually hard to drive on the streets.. A real enthusiast doesn't drive a F430, a real enthusiast drives something special..

Not really applicable as there are varying enthusiasts of different cars, makes, etc. An enthusiast does not have to drive something special. There are hardcore Miata enthusiasts out there & many would not consider a Miata that special.

Your edit is far too assuming that all F430 drivers are wanna-be enthusiasts. I've met a few that are quite content to keep their cars despite 458's & Scuderias being the better options. One of them made sure his was a rare 6-speed for a reason. There is also nothing from keeping someone buying a pristine Mk. 1 GTI just to show off. Hell, a lot of the muscle car guys do it all the time.

 

[JJ72]

I do think if you are an enthusiast, you won't worry so much about the bill but rather where else to save that money, or how to make more. It's a compulsive thing.

 

[Danoff]

No, it doesn't unless you're one of those people who buy the car just for poon & attention. These people are not enthusiasts, they are why the cars are never driven & why they get traded in for the next thing.

Roy has proved time & time again, exotics are built to be driven. For him, if you can't afford the maintenance later on, you shouldn't buy the car to begin with.

I do think if you are an enthusiast, you won't worry so much about the bill but rather where else to save that money, or how to make more. It's a compulsive thing.

Sorry. This sentiment is absurd. Absolutely 100% absurd. To say that you shouldn't drive a Ferrari unless you can afford to eat the entire price of the car is just ridiculous and very elitist. If everyone thought like that, they wouldn't make Ferraris because no one would buy them.

This strikes me as the mentality of someone who has never actually looked at what it would take to realistically purchase and keep a ferrari, and how it would work financially.

Yes, if an enthusiast makes decisions without regard to money, then very few people are enthusiasts - but I think it's an absurd criteria and a fantasy.

 

[Stotty]

Very easy to say 'If you're an enthusiast you'll find the money'... but life isn't quite like that.

I stopped off at the newsagents to buy some smokes on the way to golf earlier this year. When I came out of the shop th car wouldn't re-start. 5 days later I picked it up from the indy after handing over my credit card and shelling out almost £1,800.

I don't care how much of an enthusiast you are, or how well off you are, dropping that sort of money unplanned is bloody painful.

 

[McLaren]

Sorry. This sentiment is absurd. Absolutely 100% absurd. To say that you shouldn't drive a Ferrari unless you can afford to eat the entire price of the car is just ridiculous and very elitist. If everyone thought like that, they wouldn't make Ferraris because no one would buy them.

It's not. A lot of people end up selling these cars cause they can't afford the higher maintenance, which is Roy's point; don't buy them if you can't live with the car past 5,000 miles. He has a strong distaste for people who buy the cars for show, or only drive them 1 day. To him, there's no point in wasting $200,000 on a car that sits in a garage all day until the next model comes out.

This strikes me as the mentality of someone who has never actually looked at what it would take to realistically purchase and keep a ferrari, and how it would work financially.

And yet, here's the guy making them with a 14,000+ mile 2010 Lamborghini among several others.

 

[Danoff]

It's not. A lot of people end up selling these cars cause they can't afford the higher maintenance, which is Roy's point; don't buy them if you can't live with the car past 5,000 miles. He has a strong distaste for people who buy the cars for show, or only drive them 1 day. To him, there's no point in wasting $200,000 on a car that sits in a garage all day until the next model comes out.

I'm not talking about maintenance. I agree, if you can't maintain the car, don't buy it. I'm talking about depreciation. When you buy a $200k car, you haven't really spent $200k. In some sense, you may have spent nothing - if you can turn around and sell it for $200k, you've lost zero dollars.

It's driving the car that costs money because it depreciates the value of the car. That's why they sit in the garage instead of cruising at 60 mph down the freeway - because that cruise down the freeway is no better in a $200k Ferrari than it is in a $40k Porsche. 10,000 miles cruising down the freeway in the Ferrari can BUY the porsche. It makes zero sense to waste your supercar going at a constant speed in a straight line.

 

[McLaren]

I'm not talking about maintenance. I agree, if you can't maintain the car, don't buy it. I'm talking about depreciation. When you buy a $200k car, you haven't really spent $200k. In some sense, you may have spent nothing - if you can turn around and sell it for $200k, you've lost zero dollars.

It's driving the car that costs money because it depreciates the value of the car. That's why they sit in the garage instead of cruising at 60 mph down the freeway - because that cruise down the freeway is no better in a $200k Ferrari than it is in a $40k Porsche. 10,000 miles cruising down the freeway in the Ferrari can BUY the porsche. It makes zero sense to waste your supercar going at a constant speed in a straight line.

It makes zero sense to you b/c you may be one of those people who will eventually sale the car, so naturally, you worry about the depreciation.

Roy holds his views because he doesn't usually sale his cars for realistic prices. Roy's SV is for sale for $500,000 w/ 14,000 miles. Will it sale? Probably not but it's also one of six 6-speeds in the US, the only 1 with the smaller spoiler, so he might get it.

As for what's better in cruising, well, then why bother putting any sort of effort in these supercars besides making them look pretty if it makes "zero" sense to actually drive them like a regular car for those times you can't drive like a hooligan with them. Why buy a BMW M3 when it won't be any different cruising down the highway in a Mustang GT?

I share Roy's sentiment. If I spent $200,000+ on a car, I'd drive it as well. Maybe not every day, but enough to get my money's worth since I could have just bought a painting if I wanted to stare at it all day & let it sit at home. Otherwise, in my view, it makes zero sense to waste $200,000+ on something that sits in a garage all day. Why buy it in the first place? Why not save yourself the inevitable loss in money (the only way to make money off these cars is buy the rare ones as soon as they're released) & buy that $40,000 Porsche instead?

 

[Kylehnat]

I do think if you are an enthusiast, you won't worry so much about the bill but rather where else to save that money, or how to make more. It's a compulsive thing.

It's possible to be an enthusiast and also be smart. If you're taking cold showers just so you can afford your car, you've made a bad decision.

It's also possible to be an enthusiast and not pile on miles. If you buy the Ferrari or Lambo just so you can hit the mountain road on the weekend, you may very well only accumulate a couple thousand miles per year. What's wrong with that? I'd rather let the next owner worry about Ferrari's insistence that the crankshaft be balanced and the transmission be rebuilt at 30,000 miles.

 

[Heldenzeit]

There are high mileage cars out there. I've changed the cam belts on a 100k mile 308 and I've heard of one local with more than that. The cars stay reliable the more you drive them. I've seen cam belts in worse shape after 500 miles vs a car with 5000 miles.

F430s are cool but those are having the same issues as 355s had, cracking headers and such. The 550 or the 360 is the car to have from a reliability stand point.

Also remember that Ferrari suggest a 5 year or 5000 mile "major" service interval which on a car like a Testarossa or 348 require engine removal. Cam belts, injectors, cooling lines, valve lash adjustment and many other things are done. On an early TR that service was around $8k.

 

[Danoff]

It makes zero sense to you b/c you may be one of those people who will eventually sale the car, so naturally, you worry about the depreciation.

This is 99.9% of all car owners, and not a requirement of an "enthusiast". An enthusiast is someone who will not sell a car? But let's look at what you have laid out for me:

This is for a hypothetical supercar costing $200,000.

Person A buys the car and never drives it for 5 years. He sells it for $150,000.
Person B buys the car and drives it many weekends in the mountains and special occasions. He puts 5,000 miles on it in 5 years and sells it for $140,000.
Person C b buys the car and drives it every day for 5 years putting the standard mileage on the car (12k mi per year = 60,000 miles). He spends ~$20,000 in extra maintenance/tires/repairs/insurance, and could sell the car for $70,000. I'll note that it doesn't matter whether or not any of these people actually sell the car, this is the real-world financial result of their actions. It is a snapshot of what they have spent, even if they continue to own the car.
(I'm making this stuff up obviously, but I'm hoping I'm within $20-$30k of it)


Person A bought zero miles for $50k, or a price per mile of infinity.
Person B bought 5,000 miles for $60k, or a price per mile of $12/mi
Person C bought 60,000 miles for $150,000, or a price per mile of $2.50.

So person C is the smart one right? Nope. Person B saved $90,000 by not driving his supercar everywhere. He still got to own the Ferrari and drive it during the times when it mattered. He still got to take every single mountain road that Person C did. He still got to have every track day, every car show, every night out, every "let's go driving on the coast", every cocktail conversation about how much fun his Ferrari is. And what did he give up in exchange? He drove a more comfortable, more reliable, more practical car during the drives when comfortable, reliability, and practicality were important. He got to show up to that important client meeting in his BMW sedan instead of his Lamborghini, and the client didn't get pissed off at how much he was clearly overpaying. He got to show up to his sister's house for Christmas in something understated and didn't spark a huge fight over the financial difference between him and his sister. His bright red ferrari didn't get spotted at the strip club because he had his silver commuter car there... which also didn't get vandalized. When he got into that stupid accident on his way to work and rear ended the guy in front of him, that guy didn't immediately grab his neck and pretend to be injured because he didn't see a guy in a bright yellow lamborghini.

Here's my point - you give up nothing by driving a more comfortable, still fast, more reliable, more practical car at the times when that car is well suited for the task and saving the ultra-fast, ultra-expensive, ultra-flashy car during the times when it is well suited for the task. I can think of a million times when having a Ferrari is a pain in the ass, and I can think of a few times when you'll definitely notice its performance and abilities.

It makes sense to use a car at what it's good at. It makes sense not to waste commuting miles on ultra-expensive cars. Not only is it cheaper, but I'd argue that it's a better driving experience. I think I'd have a far better time commuting in an M3 and driving a Ferrari on the weekends, than doing both in the Ferrari.

If being an enthusiast means I have to ignore any and all practical considerations (including money), then no, I'm not an enthusiast. If it means I'm enthusiastic about driving, well then that's different.

 

[JJ72]

Sorry. This sentiment is absurd. Absolutely 100% absurd. To say that you shouldn't drive a Ferrari unless you can afford to eat the entire price of the car is just ridiculous and very elitist. If everyone thought like that, they wouldn't make Ferraris because no one would buy them.

This strikes me as the mentality of someone who has never actually looked at what it would take to realistically purchase and keep a ferrari, and how it would work financially.

Yes, if an enthusiast makes decisions without regard to money, then very few people are enthusiasts - but I think it's an absurd criteria and a fantasy.

Um every one I know that has a Ferrari don't have problem maintaining it, or is tight in any sense, if you can't give the car the service and care it deserves you shouldn't buy one. If you really want the experience, join the car club and rent one.

I don't think you realize how under-supplied Ferraris are, even if they make twice the number it will still be taken up faster than you can say Flamingo. I've just been to the Mclaren MP4-12C launch party in Hong Kong and all 12 cars were taken in 30 mins, and that's a 5 million HKD car....This market is never satisfied.

Don't that it the wrong way, not everyone can afford Ferraris, that's why people are into Golfs and Civics as well, every class has their own thing they can play with.

 

[Danoff]

Um every one I know that has a Ferrari don't have problem maintaining it, or is tight in any sense, if you can't give the car the service and care it deserves you shouldn't buy one.

I'm not talking about maintenance. I agree, if you can't maintain the car, don't buy it. I'm talking about depreciation.