Is Engine Wear The Same Across the Board?

  • Thread starter Thread starter MRslider
  • 41 comments
  • 2,971 views
M

MRslider

Messages
61
I've done the searches, some got close but...

Man I swear my 111R's engine wears out in the 4 hour endurance around the Ring after 1 hour. Now after spending all that time getting my ratios just right the car's a dog! My RS4 goes nearly two hours before any noticeable degradation of the engine output.

I have a couple of questions,

: Is engine wear based on miles alone?

: Is engine wear reduced if I stay out of the RED area of the Tach on a new car?

: If I wait longer, say 200 miles (321.869km) before my first oil change will my cars go longer between oil changes?

: Do smaller displacement engines wear out faster?

I'm tired of looking at countless threads, and some of my questions my be answered else where, but I would like to know today.
 
: Is engine wear based on miles alone?
Prolly.

: Is engine wear reduced if I stay out of the RED area of the Tach on a new car?
Doubt it.

: If I wait longer, say 200 miles (321.869km) before my first oil change will my cars go longer between oil changes?
Doubt it.

: Do smaller displacement engines wear out faster?
The total power loss is prolly based on beginning power number not engine size.
 
i think u lose horsepower because during these endurance races ur oil gets dirty therefore loss of h/p. I think if u change the oil after ever race ull regain all of the h/p back.

Am i correct....... :nervous: somebody verify this for me... thanx


FUTUREDRIFTER
 
futuredrifter
i think u lose horsepower because during these endurance races ur oil gets dirty therefore loss of h/p. I think if u change the oil after ever race ull regain all of the h/p back.

Am i correct....... :nervous: somebody verify this for me... thanx


FUTUREDRIFTER
Click to expand...

I reckon you're right, handling definately starts going during the 24 hour races(from chassis rigidity going to pot), so I reckon the power loss from dirty oil is progressive through the races too. check the oil at the end of a 24hr and it's black. BUT, I reckon that in the long term the engines gradually loose power as you put miles on them. I say this because if you get the famous black LMPs/group C cars, that have 20,000+ miles on them, even once you change the oil, the power figure never goes back upto the same as a new one with an oil change- at least it hasn't with my Nissan. 👎
 
MRslider
I've done the searches, some got close but...
: Is engine wear based on miles alone?
YES Edit: NO, I believe car needs to be redlined for a specific number of miles, however, most would seem to disagree.

: Is engine wear reduced if I stay out of the RED area of the Tach on a new car?
YES Edit: This is disputed by most posts below.

: If I wait longer, say 200 miles (321.869km) before my first oil change will my cars go longer between oil changes?
I very much doubt it

: Do smaller displacement engines wear out faster?
NO

1 hour at the 'ring is not enough to cause noticable power loss - you can check by looking at the power figure in the settings screen. Nor is it enough to require a chassis refresh. Whatever is happening to you is not the result of either of these two things.

If the car already has some miles on the clock ensure that a chassis refresh is not already required and that the oil is clean at the start of the race.

It really sounds to me as though the problem is psychosomatic but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
 
Do you have any proof that engine wear is increased by running past redline? I have noticed no difference in any of my cars between running it past redline and not running it past redline. For instance, I've run my Speedster way past redline every single gear every time I drive it and I haven't noticed any faster wear on it than on any other car. I haven't seen anybody actually do any tests to prove this yet, have you?
 
JTSnooks
Do you have any proof that engine wear is increased by running past redline? I have noticed no difference in any of my cars between running it past redline and not running it past redline. For instance, I've run my Speedster way past redline every single gear every time I drive it and I haven't noticed any faster wear on it than on any other car. I haven't seen anybody actually do any tests to prove this yet, have you?
Click to expand...
I ran my 2CV for about 70,000km without getting into the redline and suffered no loss of power. As soon as it started running in the red line power loss occurred. As far as I can tell if you do not run in the red line power loss is indeed reduced, and it is reduced to zero.
 
JTSnooks
Do you have any proof that engine wear is increased by running past redline? I have noticed no difference in any of my cars between running it past redline and not running it past redline. For instance, I've run my Speedster way past redline every single gear every time I drive it and I haven't noticed any faster wear on it than on any other car. I haven't seen anybody actually do any tests to prove this yet, have you?
Click to expand...

I had a BMW 330i and i always let it run past the redline and after 100 miles, the hp dropped by around 15hp!!! :crazy: Before:367hp-After 350hp!!! 👎 👎
 
Well I know that's certainly not true, because the Toyota Minolta CANNOT be run past redline yet mine has extreme power loss. So I know you still get wear, and in my experience redline or not seems to have no effect. I doubt the game tracks how often you run past redline in a car, that would be an awful lot of information. I believe it's simply based on mileage and horsepower, the same way nitrous and gasoline usage is based on horsepower.
 
The 2CV has only 11 hp. A loss of 4 percent due to worn oil is only 0.44 hp.
The resultant 10.56 left will still show as 11.
Not exactly sure on the percentage loss but I think I am close?
 
He was probably talking about a fully-modded 2CV. And Kiwiboy, are you sure you didn't just look at the wrong numbers? In the garage it will actually list the power of the car in PS and in other places it will list it in horsepower wich is a bit lower. That much power loss shouldn't be possible over 100 miles unless your oil was just starting to get dirt at the beginning of the 100-mile period and rapidly progressed through getting dirty over the next 100 miles. I've run many of my cars consistently past redline and haven't noticed any faster power loss than the ones I haven't. In fact, on many of them I haven't noticed any power loss whatsoever yet, but that comes simply from not having driven them enough miles.
 
I was able to observe the change in the power of the 2CV via the a-spec points it was being awarded (all other things being equal).
 
:lol:... I had the same reaction, then I saw that Moloch had written that staying out of the redline reduces the engine wear... time for an EDIT, man!

I've noticed this, too. Just puttering around doing nothing (free lapping) doesn't cause much engine wear, but a few hot races where you're constantly redlining wears it out pretty quick.

Chassis Rigidity is partially affected by distance travelled, but if you bang the walls a lot, you WILL pay.
 
I'd like to see someone do an actual 'scientific' study on this to see how much this affects cars.

1 - A brand new car is taken around the test course and is kept in a high gear so that it never reaches redline. Same model of brand new car taken to same test course and is run around the track at low gear for same high mileage, compare cars at end of test.

2 - Take a car and drive it around very smoothly, like with B Spec driving it on 1 on an easy course. Do this for many laps. Then take a similar car and you drive it yourself and hit every wall possible and do this for high mileage, and compare cars at the end.
 
Maybe when you're just puttering around you're not going as fast, so you don't cover as much distance ;) I'd still like to see someone actually test it. I'm pretty sure it's based solely on distance and horsepower. Maybe get a car and set 5th and 6th really wide so it runs past redline in 5th, and at the same speed in 6th it runs low in the rev range, then run it around the Test Track until the oil light comes on or you notice engine wear or whatever. BTW, the engine wear in GT4 is completely unrealistic as engines make more horsepower after they've been driven a few thousand miles. The sweet spot for most engines is 20,000+ miles. In GT4 you LOSE horsepower way before this.
 
Moloch_horridus
I ran my 2CV for about 70,000km without getting into the redline and suffered no loss of power. As soon as it started running in the red line power loss occurred. As far as I can tell if you do not run in the red line power loss is indeed reduced, and it is reduced to zero.
Click to expand...

I would like to see the for sale add.
2CV gently driven for 70000 km. Runs a bit rough due to abuse after 70000 km.
Nothing a oil change and service could not fix. No rust. Great for maxing out A spec points in club autocross.

What was the increase in A spec points?
Probably written up somewhere else?
 
i'm thinking that without any concrete reproduceable evidence (as opposed to these subjective views) that it is safe to assume that the decrease in HP is due to engine mileage and crap oil and UNrelated to revs used to acheive the mileage. i'm thinking also that there seems to be a standard loss in power across the board that every car will cop the same sort of percentages losses. Hence for the best illustration (and lowest rounding error) a high powered car should be used for any testing.
 
kennythebomb
I'd like to see someone do an actual 'scientific' study on this to see how much this affects cars.

1 - A brand new car is taken around the test course and is kept in a high gear so that it never reaches redline. Same model of brand new car taken to same test course and is run around the track at low gear for same high mileage, compare cars at end of test.

2 - Take a car and drive it around very smoothly, like with B Spec driving it on 1 on an easy course. Do this for many laps. Then take a similar car and you drive it yourself and hit every wall possible and do this for high mileage, and compare cars at the end.
Click to expand...

I'll take you up on number 1. I've bought many a car merely for testing, and I have been puzzled as to why some lose power very early, while others don't.... this should be some fun. Maybe 100 laps of the test course should do it. :lol:

I'll stand by what I said, though. Engine wear DOES depend on engine speed. I've noticed this since GT3, which is why I always skip the test course in long series. If you don't do the test course, your oil lasts five or six races longer. That's a much longer distance than what's covered by the car during the Test Course race.
 
niky
I'll stand by what I said, though. Engine wear DOES depend on engine speed. I've noticed this since GT3, which is why I always skip the test course in long series. If you don't do the test course, your oil lasts five or six races longer. That's a much longer distance than what's covered by the car during the Test Course race.
Click to expand...

Puzzling indeed, given that in GT3 engine wear was not related to revs...

Furthermore, the fact your average race you speak of say 10 minutes doesn't put as much wear on your engine as 10 minutes on the test track is just more proof that it is mileage related. In 10 minutes on the test track you will most likely cover 3-5 times as much distance.

All you will need for the test is a 0km high powered car (to minimise the rounding error) with a customisable tranny. Change the oil, check power. Set it so that it is topping out in the top gear and b-spec 50 laps of the test course, change oil, check power. Next get the same 0km model, and set the top gear so that it stops accelerating in its top gear a few thousand revs below redline (hint: you may have to shorten the second top gear to stop Bob from down shifting which would bugger the results). then again change the oil, check power, run the 50 on b spec, oil up and check the power. that should settle it.

oh and you may want to take note of the fuel consumption as well - as this should prove whether or not engine speed has an effect on fuel economy.
 
JTSnooks
The sweet spot for most engines is 20,000+ miles. In GT4 you LOSE horsepower way before this.
Click to expand...

All wear in GT3 and 4 is accelerated. This includes engine wear, tyre wear and fuel consumption.

As for running around on taller gearing, and comparing resultant power loss to running the same distance at the same speed but higher revs, this will give false results if engine wear is related to throttle position. More throttle, more wear. So driving flat out at 3000RPM may cause similar wear to driving flat out at 7000RPM.

Only way to test is to go flat out around the test course for long enough to notice significant wear, then cruise around on a partial throttle for a similar time, then a similar distance, and compare the results. I would not be surprised if the rate of wear is affected by engine mods, though the only studies I have seen on this subject proved that engine wear follows a consistent pattern until exactly 8500 miles, at which point no further power reduction is experienced. Over revving may have an effect on the speed at which your oil gets dirty. This would not be a new thing in a computer game - both Grand Prix 2 and Grand Prix Legends would directly reward overrevving with reduced engine reliability, and GT4 reportedly has the ability to accelerate chassis wear, so I wouldn't be surprised if you could accelerate oil degradation by abusing your engine. At the same time I would not be surprised if such treatment had no effect on the long term and permanent reduction in power that most the cars in GT4 experience over time.
 
I dont know about in game, but in life engine power decreases after mileage, but drastically more so when driven hard. Think about it would you buy a car from a boy racer who likes to redline or buy the same car from a guy who treats it well who doesn't push it or take it too slow(almost as bad as thrashing it).
Also, fuel again in life, will reduce more if the engine is working harder than normal, although you will get there quicker if your pushing it hard. But its still works out better to take it easier because if you're pedal to metal most of the power will be inefeciently used.
However I don't belive any of this aplies to the game. I belive engine wear is purely based upon mileage, as with fuel consumption. Unless its proven otherwise :sly:
 
kennythebomb
I'd like to see someone do an actual 'scientific' study on this to see how much this affects cars.

1 - A brand new car is taken around the test course and is kept in a high gear so that it never reaches redline. Same model of brand new car taken to same test course and is run around the track at low gear for same high mileage, compare cars at end of test.

2 - Take a car and drive it around very smoothly, like with B Spec driving it on 1 on an easy course. Do this for many laps. Then take a similar car and you drive it yourself and hit every wall possible and do this for high mileage, and compare cars at the end.
Click to expand...

Thanks Kenny, Thats really what I was after, if someone had actually already done that.
 
I did a test some weeks ago. It's not exactly about the questions you find here but it might be interesting. You can read it in the "Race Reorts"-forum, I don't know how to create a link. It's called "The Enduro Test I - Loss of power". Maybe I can update it someday. The test with the 787B is completed and in future I might repeat "The Enduro Test" with the Speed 8.

One note to fuel consumption: In A-Spec fuel consumtion is lower than B-Spec (at least in La Sarthe 24h). You easily can go one more lap than your buddy. I guess the reason might be different driving styles (B-Spec likes to accelerate with full throttle out of every corner) or an advantage given by PD to make us more competitive.

Well, maybe a second note: In Formula GT Championship I noticed that when driving with more fuel tires wear quicker than driving with low fuel. The differnce is very small but it's there, it's let's say a quarter or half of a lap before the "P" (in B-Spec) goes on.
 

Latest Posts

Back