Is Gran Turismo 6 for the casual masses?

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CHALLENGER1ON1
I was reading a bunch of reviews for Gran Turismo 6, most of them were honest reviews with mixed-to-positive ratings. Other reviews absolutely tore into GT6 with unbacked criticism (my real gripe is the fact that people insist on comparing GT6 to FM5 - two totally different systems). It seems like the ongoing problem is that these reviewers seem to confuse Gran Turismo 6 with a casual racer, as quoted:

Gamespot
Gran Turismo purists will probably be expecting this kind of grind, but newcomers will quickly be alienated by GT6 when other racing games are happy to put you behind the wheel of a kickass sports car within minutes.
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True, I suppose. Excluding any preorder bonuses, it's pretty accurate. I have a few questions:

1. Is Gran Turismo 6 tailored for hardcore drivers or casual gamers?

2. What could be done differently so that casual gamers will actually like the game? (inb4 "put in porsh and updaet teh soundz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
 
I say it's for both, really. I don't like the criticism about the "alienated" comment. Polyphony seems to want people to know about how many practical, yet fun, cars there are to drive. This game isn't all about the sports cars, and we can even tune up the practical cars to be awesome.

GT6 is tailored for a different audience, yes. I think it's more tailored to people who just love cars and the joy of driving while other racing games are just about going fast in supercars. In Gran Turismo, most of the cars are ones you can actually drive on the road and don't have to relegate to a dream.
 
If you are looking to drive cars around as best as you can than yes gran turismo is for you, but if you are looking for a fun racing game than no.
 
Sean24
If you are looking to drive cars around as best as you can than yes gran turismo is for you, but if you are looking for a fun racing game than no.
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You mean if you're looking for a fun SINGLE-PLAYER racing game. I have plenty of fun online in Gran Turismo 5/6.
 
I'm thinking about how closed off a vast majority of the game will be to those who either a) didn't get pre-order bonuses, or b) haven't spent a lot of time with the series before this. That Gamespot quote is er, spot-on: the amount of grinding a casual player will have to do to gain access to even a fraction of the cool cars could be off-putting.

Whether we like it or not, that matters, because casuals are what drive sales, not the fringe enthusiasts.
 
NOSWaster
You mean if you're looking for a fun SINGLE-PLAYER racing game. I have plenty of fun online in Gran Turismo 5/6.
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Yeah, I personally am not big on playing anything multiplayer, i'm just not part of that generation. Even as I would "casually" try an online race every now and again in GT5 It was still kinda frustrating for me as didn't have any friends online to play against regularly and it was kind of a crap shoot trying to find a decent race where I wasn't constantly getting disconnected from the server or getting taken out by someone who doesn't care about trying to race.

I'd say check out youtube for some gameplay videos. Theres lots out there that can better inform you first hand.
 
The way the first hour of gameplay is clearly indicates the game targets casual players, not GT or racing fans. There are lots of other indications as well, such as the game's difficulty (the very easiest racing game I've ever played with events aced by over 5 seconds), progression, running off the track without penalties, the tips after losing, SRF-only events (including GT Academy), etc.

So, difficulty and progression wise GT6 does target the casual masses, which is a good decision considering 99% of players would cry with GTR2's, LFS, iRacing's difficulty, not being easy to pick up and requiring simracing experience to start enjoying the game.

With that said, there's a second aspect. The GT series career mode is a bit different than the rest of the genre. Think of it as a RPG against an arcade game: the RPG genre is not more casual nor more hardcore than arcades per se and at the same time it isn't better or worse. It is just different and some people prefer one while the rest prefers the other, with each person liking a particular genre better with the consequence of being easier to play for them, while the opposite genre will be more difficult for them.

Concretely, right now console racing games are more or the arcade type, with most things unlocked and instant 100% fun, so reviewers and mass consumers prefer that choice over this particular series and will consider the RPG type to be unnecessarily tough and not casual for them, even though GT6 happens to be an easy RPG.

In short, GT6 does aim at the casual market. It's just happens the casual market doesn't like it.
 
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avens
The way the first hour of gameplay is clearly indicates the game targets casual players, not GT or racing fans. There are lots of other indications as well, such as the game's difficulty (the very easiest racing game I've ever played with events aced by over 5 seconds), progression, running off the track without penalties, the tips after losing, SRF-only events (including GT Academy), etc.

So, difficulty and progression wise GT6 does target the casual masses, which is a good decision considering 99% of players would cry with GTR2's, LFS, iRacing's difficulty, not being easy to pick up and requiring simracing experience to start enjoying the game.

With that said, there's a second aspect. The GT series career mode is a bit different than the rest of the genre. Think of it as a RPG against an arcade game: the RPG genre is not more casual nor more hardcore than arcades per se and at the same time it isn't better or worse. It is just different and some people prefer one while the rest prefers the other, with each person liking a particular genre better with the consequence of being easier to play for them, while the opposite genre will be more difficult for them.

Concretely, right now console racing games are more or the arcade type, with most things unlocked and instant 100% fun, so reviewers and mass consumers prefer that choice over this particular series and will consider the RPG type to be unnecessarily tough and not casual for them, even though GT6 happens to be an easy RPG.

In short, GT6 does aim at the casual market. It's just happens the casual market doesn't like it.
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There was a time when we were casual gamers when we started playing Gran Turismo.
 
Shirrako
There was a time when we were casual gamers when we started playing Gran Turismo.
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That was before Call of Duty and FPS started dominating the "casual" market. Racing games in general are not as hot as it used to be. That said, GT still rakes in money, and PD never has mentioned anything about monetary problems. And the fact that manufacturers clamor to Kaz about being in the game means it still has its aura that pulls in people.
 
Shirrako
There was a time when we were casual gamers when we started playing Gran Turismo.
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As I wrote, I do think it's a good decision to target that market. What I disagree in is in calling GT6 a hardcore game or that it got bad reviews based on that, because it clearly isn't. It holds players hands even if they don't want to, all the way.

What GT6 is is a different game within its genre, a subgenre if you want, even though it's an easy exponent. If GT6 is called hardcore by someone what they really mean is it's not their favorite subgenre as a whole, not the execution of a particular game. For example right now people like their FPS to be Call of Duty like, and if it is from a different subgenre then it won't be liked much and it will be considered hardcore only because it is different, though not necessarily objectively more difficult in any way.

Anyway, it's a good chance to expand on the first aspect, the difficulty. Personally I'd really like the game to have a harder side as an option, for example harder events and seasonals like GT5 had, but right now it doesn't. Examples are Rally, Vettel, the expert events, lowering PP for higher rewards.
These days being easy to pick up and have a complexity isn't mutually exclusive. Plenty of games pull that off, but right now GT6 doesn't in any way. On this part the criticism should be that it is too casual, not that it is from a different subgenre (RPG-like) that is not what's mainstream nowadays (Arcade-like). A good game is what is easy from start to finish and beyond and for everyone: on this GT6 as a whole is an improvement over GT5, but it's a bit too childish for players that have experience on GT and on racing games, all the way to GT Academy.
 
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SlipZtrEm
Whether we like it or not, that matters, because casuals are what drive sales, not the fringe enthusiasts.
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To be fair it also pisses off the fringe enthusiasts a bit to have to go through the same pointless grind every game iteration. Especially when the grind is for a car that even uses the same low detail model it did in the previous 2-4 games. None of us enjoy it... some of us just put up with it.
 
In an interview Kaz said they wanted to make the game more beginner friendly. The tutorial and the Honda Fit reflect that. The PP and tire restrictions are welcome additions, however they are far too lenient. For example it specifically says Clubman Cup is for 400 pp cars, however you can enter with a 500 pp car. Makes it seems they are making the game purposely easy. Unlike the GT5 seasonals you get no pp bonuses.

I don't know if I agree with the comments that casual players driving sales. I think at this point in the GT and PS3 lifecycle most people who bought GT6 are ones who played some form of GT in the past.

I think it's possible to make a game accessible to new players, but still challenging for veterans. I think so far GT6 succeeds in the former, but not in the latter.
 
I want an uber hardcore GT. Tuning the ecu your self via something similar to megasquirt etc, much more in depth suspension tuning.. I can only dream..
 
MoLiEG
I haven't even played the game, but it looks like it's made for everyone but racing fans...
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For the offline I agree. Online I think is going to be the shizzle once the new update comes to help organize racing better. Just the new practice/qualifying/race set up is light years ahead of GT5 and gives a real feeling of immersion IMO. You even have the option as host to set up qualifying so each person gets a free run without having to deal with other cars. Not exactly realistic but a real welcome feature in Open Lobbies where consideration for other cars is often lacking.
 
archie_aileron
In an interview Kaz said they wanted to make the game more beginner friendly. The tutorial and the Honda Fit reflect that. The PP and tire restrictions are welcome additions, however they are far too lenient. For example it specifically says Clubman Cup is for 400 pp cars, however you can enter with a 500 pp car. Makes it seems they are making the game purposely easy. Unlike the GT5 seasonals you get no pp bonuses.

I don't know if I agree with the comments that casual players driving sales. I think at this point in the GT and PS3 lifecycle most people who bought GT6 are ones who played some form of GT in the past.

I think it's possible to make a game accessible to new players, but still challenging for veterans. I think so far GT6 succeeds in the former, but not in the latter.
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No one, not even me nor 90% of drivers, intend on being stuck behind the wheel of a dreary honda fit forever. There should be some easier way to obtain sought-after cars and fully enjoy the game, and I'm not talking about spitting out real money for a couple grains of in-game credits. Such a change might bring in more casual gamers.
 
PD is in a bit of a pickle with GT. No matter how celebrated the series is, it's still a business; it's about selling as many units as possible. That means any GT game needs to be accessible to casual gamers or people who are curious about the series. I could see how GT would be overwhelming to someone brand new to gaming or the GT franchise, so I expect a little hand holding in the beginning.
However, PD could solve some problems for everyone if they would give the play control. There is no reason we shouldn't be able to adjust the difficulty of the AI in career mode or turn off SRF in license tests. Allowing the player to tailor their gameplay experience to their liking would allow longtime fans to be challenged, while not shunning new or casual players. Hopefully, PD will take this route in the future.

Then its all aboard the Win-Win Express!
 
It's certainly geared toward a casual market. The rubberbanding is a good indicator of that. The racers react to your situation.

I don't mind though, I'm enjoying the game for what it is.
 
Fumingly enough, John Romero talked about the issue just today.

Around 1:20:00


Personally, I think a great example of that from back in the day is Donkey Kong '94, which is almost certainly the best game boy game ever released in a span of three decades. It's a must play to understand this topic. Just be sure to let the intro run.
 
Rdp616
I want an uber hardcore GT. Tuning the ecu your self via something similar to megasquirt etc, much more in depth suspension tuning.. I can only dream..
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You want a pc sim.
 
masterrawad
1. Is Gran Turismo 6 tailored for hardcore drivers or casual gamers?
Click to expand...
Casual gamers.

masterrawad
2. What could be done differently so that casual gamers will actually like the game? (inb4 "put in porsh and updaet teh soundz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Click to expand...
It is already tailored for casual gamers, so I'll answer how they can satisfy hardcore drivers:

Provide more online options and have actual races in career mode instead of "chase-the-rabbit-from-the-back-of-the-grid" every time. Oh, and never force-on SRF.
 
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I personally have found it easier than GT5. I haven't lost a race bar one (when I flew tover the hump at Eiger and landed in the worlds stupidest pit lane).
Personally I don't care for the arcade racer where you get strapped into a supercar from the get go and race on endless straights and curves where top gear will get you round 90% of corners. I prefer the souped up honda civic races where perfecting a difficult corner is vital and the licence tests you have to try two or three times to get.
It's a driving simulator, not a boy racer ego stroker. It is supposed to require more than a point and squirt approach. If people are complaining about that (and one notable idiot did) then there are plenty of options for them. If people want something more in-depth then they are the ones who have some grounds to be complaining BUT it is a console game. It has never been a hardcore sim such as you'd find on PCs.
It sits in that middle ground for console enthusiasts who want to play with a dualshock controller yet want something more challenging. Maybe it's just the case that some GT enthusiasts have outgrown GT.
 
Its the popular belief within this community that GT6 is what GT5 was supposed to be. In addition its been complained about loudly that GT5 was designed so that anyone could enjoy it. Particularly the AI in career mode. Same seems to be true for 6. The AI are not aggressive drivers. It's been upped alittle in 6 but in 5 they stayed on course never passing each other and making it easy to win the race. However. The more advanced races in career mode is going to make you a hardcore racer if you take the time to get through it. Its not as easy as it used to be. So my deduction says the first 50-60% of career mode is for the casual fan. But you'll turn into something more than causal if you work on the other 40-50%.
 
It seems to me that with GT6 PD are trying to be both.

Having more than just the bedroom poster sports cars, and more advanced handling than previous GT games, and having you work to gain access to the better vehicles means a larger time playing the game and unlike many games you won't finish it over a weekend. This isn't going to interest casual racers.

But ridiculously easy AI which even slow down on the last lap to hand you the win, and the micro transactions are clearly aimed at casual racers who want to pick up the game, drive the car they want immediately, and win every race.

I wish PD would understand that with a 15 year anniversary you also have gamer's with as much as 15 years experience who are happy to put in time to unlock all those magnificent cars in career but want a challenge while they do it.

A simple pop up like other computer games have when you first load up the game, asking you for your experience level of this genre of game, and then alter the AI difficulty and credits for races depending on which option is chosen.

Novice
Amateur
Experienced
Veteran
Professional


This way PD could tailor the game to different players who are clearly seeking different gaming experiences instead of trying to make us all enjoy the same experience.
 
masterrawad
I was reading a bunch of reviews for Gran Turismo 6, most of them were honest reviews with mixed-to-positive ratings. Other reviews absolutely tore into GT6 with unbacked criticism (my real gripe is the fact that people insist on comparing GT6 to FM5 - two totally different systems). It seems like the ongoing problem is that these reviewers seem to confuse Gran Turismo 6 with a casual racer, as quoted:



True, I suppose. Excluding any preorder bonuses, it's pretty accurate. I have a few questions:

1. Is Gran Turismo 6 tailored for hardcore drivers or casual gamers?

2. What could be done differently so that casual gamers will actually like the game? (inb4 "put in porsh and updaet teh soundz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Click to expand...

HUH? Just because 2 games are on different systems doesn;t mean they cannot be compared.

What is wrong with you people???? I keep seeing these posts about casuals... EVERy game ever made has to strike that balance... That's why for the last decade they have this thing called Difficulty levels.

PD needs to get with the times, when you first start playing simply pick if you are a beginner, normal, or expert player, or have a SIM setting for hardcore players. It isn't hard. Or give us AI sliders. Really that simple.

PD is just terrible at making a good offline game period. Great driving game really bad racing game. Ai is an embarassment for a game as big and with the sales GT does. Add in sounds, no damage, poorly designed career mode, Paint chips (WTF??), PD are ignoring the legacy issues that fans and gamers have wanted for years, and now their rep and sales are dropping.
 
I'm still not understanding where all this "hard core GT players will recognize the grind" crap keeps coming up in all these reviews. Before GT5, all of the games in the series were almost completely open ended; and GT6 is even more hopelessly linear (despite how much praise we're apparently supposed to be heaping on PD for eliminating the level system) than GT5 was.
 

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