Is GT becoming less a GAME and more a Racing Tool? A letter to Kaz!

[Flash3001]

I play GT since 99 and I really love it, but since sometime ago it seems GT is trying to became more and more of a racing tool - to became professional - and less of console game - for fun (I think it might be following Kaz's life).

The new ideal of making the frontier of the real and virtual thinner, GT Academy, Vision GT, GPS Tracker, FIA agreement and other things are great and it seems to be good - Honestly I'd love to see GT Academy in Brazil.

But I'd also love to see more of a game. More tracks, more good cars, throw away all non-premium cars, better sound, competitive AI - not a cheating one, which has a 20 seconds of advantage, more complete offline series.

I saw a thread here sometime ago which the question: "If you could mix GT with some other game, which would be?". My answer is:

- Forza Horizon: for its racing environment, it makes you feel you are in a real competition. GT doesn't know what it is! GT is a Sim Time Trial in essence.

- F1 2013: It has training, qualifying, race and whatsoever. It would be nice to see a real implementation of Racing Series in the game. Like NASCAR, F1 - I now about the licensing issues -, Stock Car, and so on!

The implementainos that we have today are in essence: A few tracks, the cars used, organized in a GT tradicional racing series, but we don't get the real feeling of the series, we don't have most of the tracks. It just doesn't feel we are competing in NASCAR, we feel - at least I do - we are just driving the same car in the same track, but we are not doing the same thing (hard to explaing feelings). I'd love to see it completed.

After all, why do we have Rally, Snow, Nascar and so on if they don't get the attention they deserve? They are just there, just to be! They all should get the same kind of attention 24 Hours get. I believe they created time chances, wheater chances, moon movement, fireworks, real time star possition and a bunch of things so that we coud feel we are really there. Just to get the feel of the racing.

Kaz, you have the resources to hire human resources, so do it! Hire people - designers, programmers, writers... - to add content to the game, you are doing a great job with the infrastructure, but you need more people to produce content.

Please PD, don't forget where you started! We want a game too.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I saw a thread here sometime ago which the question: "If you could mix GT with some other game, which would be?". My answer is:

- Forza Horizon: for its racing environment, it makes you feel you are in a real competition. GT doesn't know what it is! GT is a Sim Time Trial in essence.

No NO NOOO! I can't think of many things that would be worse than mixing Horizon with anything. I hated that game to no end.

I like Forza and I pre-ordered Horizon unfortunately. I tried to give it to my brother but after a couple of days he brought it back and said he did not want it so I traded it in on something else. That is the only racing game to date that I got rid of after just a few days of playing.

GT should never mimic anything like Horizon nor should any other racing game. Reminded me a bit of an old NFS but not in a good way.

 

[Rafael F]

GRID with GT6 physics would be awesome 💡

 

[dddsprayshop]

Pffff. combine gameplay? NO
Gran Turismo is Gran Turismo, it is also called "The real driving simulator"
But realism? okay.
1. before entering a race, the option for qualify for a pole position, and then a proper start with green light, no rolling starts ( only nascar) en not always start as the last car.
2. car crash? yellow flag. maybe even a added cone at the oil from the crash added to warn you afterwards.
3. More tracks, less standard cars or replace them with newer or other models.
4. F1 serie, yes, we lost the ferrari F1, we got the formula Gran Turismo cars, but where are the races??
5. the option to win a carticket back.GT5 online season event, 5 races gold? Car or car ticket.

It's easy to think about things, but it is also difficult to think about things to keep Gran Turismo to be Gran Turismo.
Like Rafael wrote, it is easyer to apply GT6 physics to other games.
The driving is realistic, but the feeling is gone, or less then i had in GT5.

greetz

 

[MockngBrd]

It's a tool alright

 

[NJ72]

Surely this should be in the 'questions for Kaz' part of the forum...?

 

[NixxxoN]

Yawn, another "GT comparison to other games" thread... GT is GT, Forza is Forza, Grid is Grid, stop pretending that every game should be equal to others.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I feel pretty much the same way as you @Flash3001 , GT no longer feels like racing, and every event seems more like a glorified TT or actually is a TT. I've suggested in several threads so far the same things as you, bring back the racing to resolve the majority of issues with the game. Can they look at other games to do this? Of course they can, and must, because other games do the racing part of the game. The recently released Grid Autosport is a good example. The fact that GT is not a leader in this category already and most look to other games for inspiration is lamentable but the game needs to bring the racing back to catch up to the competition, IMO.

 

[NW48]

I actually prefer the TT's at this current stage in GT6. I wouldn't, however, if the much talked about AI were alot harder and smarter then they are now. A game that has smart and fast AI would be Grid Autosport, which as @Johnnypenso said, is heavily race focused, the expansive career is a great example of that. In my case, I do use GT6 as a race tool and also as a game but I honestly think it has drifted far away from being A GAME.

 

[amar212]

I agree with the OP but in the same way don't.

Hard to explain though.

There should be both I guess.

 

[Lawndart]

I think this misses the point. GT 6 is basicly a tech demo with cars and tracks, everything else is secondary.

Anything "authentic" is more about lagitamizing the IP than really adding anything to the player experience.

The lack of actual racing and any real player progression in GT 6 just highlights the short comings.

OP, what you are noticing is a lack of evolution in a product that's branded a game. Think of the movie Transformers 15, remove the story and any plot... What your asking for is those things back but since you aren't a director, your asking for the wrong things. Otherwise there are many that wish GT 6 was a deeper experience than cars on tracks chasing other cars...

 

[T_Exige]

"Slowly" (or fast) it is becoming more than just a game, if you see the impact it's starting to make, race drivers, showing up in the major motorsport events (Goodwood, Nurburgring, Le Mans), the connections with FIA, Ascari, Ronda ... and more connections we don't know behind the scenes.
I see the PD team growing, it is only a matter of time.

If it is good for quality? We'll just have to wait and see But to be honest I still believe in Kaz 👍

 

[TokoTurismo]

I feel GT is becoming less of a game nowadays too. FIA is going to make things worse now, I hate the idea of having them in GT. Honestly I miss the old GT and how it focused on being a game rather than a tool. Depressing, and pretty much why I was so grumpy for months...

 

[HuskyGT]

I don't know what PD pretends that they are doing, but it seems like the game portion of the title (what actually makes it fun) is slowly being watered down by all these stupid tools, merchandising and partnerships. The next Gran Turismo should go back to being a game and mimic GT2/GT3/GT4. Things like GT Academy, and all those fancy tools and partnerships have no place in the Gran Turismo I fell in love with 15 years ago if the game itself is placed last on the priority list. They should hire more people, divide the developer team and go do it somewhere else where they don't affect the work on the game.

If they want to innovate, then make another software apart from Gran Turismo where they can experiment with new, completely useless features and partnerships that add no value to the game itself. Then again, if PD can hardly keep track with their work in-game, they should just sell the franchise to an actual game developer who will continue the legacy; the game that as a car enthusiast I fell in love with more than a decade ago.

I want to see news about new DLC, updates that improve the game's exerience, PD talking about the future of the game with the same enthusiasm as authentic game developers talk about the actual game's core. I don't want to see GT Academy news, Kaz's inflating his ego in documentaries or how he participated in some race, how the GT logo is now on the hull of a boat, Kaz talking about things he would like in the game but that he doesn't know if, how or when they will implement those things, or him shaking hands with fat CEO's of companies or organizations that have nothing to do with improving the game's appeal.

I want my Gran Turismo back!!!

 

[Nooboogering]

I play GT since 99 and I really love it, but since sometime ago it seems GT is trying to became more and more of a racing tool - to became professional - and less of console game - for fun (I think it might be following Kaz's life).

The new ideal of making the frontier of the real and virtual thinner, GT Academy, Vision GT, GPS Tracker, FIA agreement and other things are great and it seems to be good - Honestly I'd love to see GT Academy in Brazil.

But I'd also love to see more of a game. More tracks, more good cars, throw away all non-premium cars, better sound, competitive AI - not a cheating one, which has a 20 seconds of advantage, more complete offline series.

I saw a thread here sometime ago which the question: "If you could mix GT with some other game, which would be?". My answer is:

- Forza Horizon: for its racing environment, it makes you feel you are in a real competition. GT doesn't know what it is! GT is a Sim Time Trial in essence.

- F1 2013: It has training, qualifying, race and whatsoever. It would be nice to see a real implementation of Racing Series in the game. Like NASCAR, F1 - I now about the licensing issues -, Stock Car, and so on!

The implementainos that we have today are in essence: A few tracks, the cars used, organized in a GT tradicional racing series, but we don't get the real feeling of the series, we don't have most of the tracks. It just doesn't feel we are competing in NASCAR, we feel - at least I do - we are just driving the same car in the same track, but we are not doing the same thing (hard to explaing feelings). I'd love to see it completed.

After all, why do we have Rally, Snow, Nascar and so on if they don't get the attention they deserve? They are just there, just to be! They all should get the same kind of attention 24 Hours get. I believe they created time chances, wheater chances, moon movement, fireworks, real time star possition and a bunch of things so that we coud feel we are really there. Just to get the feel of the racing.

Kaz, you have the resources to hire human resources, so do it! Hire people - designers, programmers, writers... - to add content to the game, you are doing a great job with the infrastructure, but you need more people to produce content.

Please PD, don't forget where you started! We want a game too.

Funny, after reading your post, seems as if every other racing game has stood still and yet Gran Turismo has been accused of not progressing.

 

[drag_izayoi]

"throw away all non-premium cars"

So, no classic LMP, no Group B cars, no old GT300/GT500 cars, etc...

I don't agree with that at all.

 

[HuskyGT]

"throw away all non-premium cars"

So, no classic LMP, no Group B cars, no old GT300/GT500 cars, etc...

I don't agree with that at all.

I always see that "throw away Standards" as a half solution. Delete only the reps and make the rest Premium.

 

[NixxxoN]

I always see that "throw away Standards" as a half solution. Delete only the reps and make the rest Premium.

yeah of course, lots of people say this, genius solution that PD surely never thought about - 500 standard cars converted to premium would take years for them

 

[Tornado]

yeah of course, lots of people say this, genius solution that PD surely never thought about

Apparently they haven't since they are still making duplicates and near-dupes.

 

[NixxxoN]

Apparently they haven't since they are still making duplicates and near-dupes.

They make duplicates/near duplicates of new premium cars? Which ones?

 

[Sick Lenny]

I don't know what PD pretends that they are doing, but it seems like the game portion of the title (what actually makes it fun) is slowly being watered down by all these stupid tools, merchandising and partnerships. The next Gran Turismo should go back to being a game and mimic GT2/GT3/GT4. Things like GT Academy, and all those fancy tools and partnerships have no place in the Gran Turismo I fell in love with 15 years ago if the game itself is placed last on the priority list. They should hire more people, divide the developer team and go do it somewhere else where they don't affect the work on the game.

If they want to innovate, then make another software apart from Gran Turismo where they can experiment with new, completely useless features and partnerships that add no value to the game itself. Then again, if PD can hardly keep track with their work in-game, they should just sell the franchise to an actual game developer who will continue the legacy; the game that as a car enthusiast I fell in love with more than a decade ago.

I want to see news about new DLC, updates that improve the game's exerience, PD talking about the future of the game with the same enthusiasm as authentic game developers talk about the actual game's core. I don't want to see GT Academy news, Kaz's inflating his ego in documentaries or how he participated in some race, how the GT logo is now on the hull of a boat, Kaz talking about things he would like in the game but that he doesn't know if, how or when they will implement those things, or him shaking hands with fat CEO's of companies or organizations that have nothing to do with improving the game's appeal.

I want my Gran Turismo back!!!

(In an effort to save this thread derailing into another standards/no standards arguement..)

What if starting with the first GT, KAZ had to "compromise" to the needs/demands of Sony at the time to make a game? And being that GT was new IP, he wasn't exactly in the position to everything he wanted because he was not "KAZ" yet? As time passes, and the game becomes a franchise staple, now he has carte blanche to do it his way, which then evolves into a game that differs enough from the one most fell in love with? Just a theory...

I often feel this way about movie writers/directors and bands/musicians. Often their first efforts that you fall in love with are not the product of just them, but alot of other creative (or commercial) influences they had to permit since they were nobodys. Once they become famous, and everyone is kissing their butt, they start doing it all their way, the vision they always had of how it should be, and it turns out that people don't care for it as much.

It is sometimes good to have inspired individuals with a vision bring it to the world without corruption or influence, but it is also good to have others be a reality check and give feedback on what works and what doesn't. The extreme of the former I would consider something close to "pure art", the latter (in the extreme) something that is aimed for the masses/commercial success. It is a fine line that needs to be walked to strike a good balance of the two for seriously good entertainment. It seems Gran Turismo is currently more towards the former, which is why there is so much love-hate for it.

Edit: Now that I think about it more, it is really a poor mix of the two. There are certainly things is the game to satisfy the masses (slow AI, easy challenges, standards), it's just they appear to be not well thought out or applied and cause more love-hate as well.

 

[sosa]

GranTurismo is becoming more of a driving game with the possibility to have some good race online, rarely, but is possible. Offline is good for grinding only. Hope things will change, but I doubt it since the racing part didn't improve much from the firs title. I don't undersdand why you guys want the qualifications back soo bad. Starting in pole all the times makes everything even more boring.

 

[Johnnypenso]

They make duplicates/near duplicates of new premium cars? Which ones?

Every single base model that was included in GT6 for a start, and listed as a separate car. There was no need for a separate base model to pad the car count, just make the original car paintable, pretty simple.

I don't undersdand why you guys want the qualifications back soo bad. Starting in pole all the times makes everything even more boring.

I'm guessing it's because we are assuming that they won't bring qualification back until the AI is fixed and so the two go hand in hand. Just a guess though because you're right about it being even more boring. With qualification and the current AI, we'll be shaving 150PP and two tire grades off our cars to get them to be competitive

 

[NixxxoN]

Every single base model that was included in GT6 for a start, and listed as a separate car. There was no need for a separate base model to pad the car count, just make the original car paintable, pretty simple.

Ehm... no, the base models are not there just to increase the car count. They are included just to make the "customization guys" a little bit happy.
You know that you cannot paint any car that has a sponsor livery in GT, therefore a separate car is included (with no sponsors) to be customized and painted.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Ehm... no, the base models are not there just to increase the car count. They are included just to make the "customization guys" a little bit happy.
You know that you cannot paint any car that has a sponsor livery in GT, therefore a separate car is included (with no sponsors) to be customized and painted.

Yes they are.

 

[Tornado]

You know, I originally wasn't sure if it was an attempt to be sarcastic, but I guess I was giving him too much credit.

Ehm... no, the base models are not there just to increase the car count.

Official marketing materials for GT6 say otherwise. Most blatantly the car list still posted on the GT website.

You know that you cannot paint any car that has a sponsor livery in GT

According to who?

 

[NixxxoN]

Yes they are.

How so? I suppose they dont care if GT6 has 1195 or 1200 cars, I dont understand why some people all the time take the opportunity to bash PD, its like they are paid for it

According to who?

Can you paint cars with official sponsor liveries? Which ones? Tell me

 

[TokoTurismo]

How so? I suppose they dont care if GT6 has 1195 or 1200 cars, I dont understand why some people all the time take the opportunity to bash PD, its like they are paid for it

Who is "they", and where in my post was I bashing PD? All I'm saying is the base models are indeed made for car count because, of course, PD being PD wanted dupies to boost it to a certain number.

 

[Tornado]

How so?

the car list still posted on the GT website.

Can you paint cars with official sponsor liveries? Which ones? Tell me

That's called "affirming the consequent." You should also be aware that there are base model versions of cars that already had fictional liveries, making this argument irrelevant even if you could prove it. And that base model versions were not the only things I was talking about.



But, again: According to who?

 

[Siren]

"Slowly" (or fast) it is becoming more than just a game, if you see the impact it's starting to make, race drivers, showing up in the major motorsport events (Goodwood, Nurburgring, Le Mans), the connections with FIA, Ascari, Ronda ... and more connections we don't know behind the scenes.
I see the PD team growing, it is only a matter of time.

If it is good for quality? We'll just have to wait and see But to be honest I still believe in Kaz 👍

Sure its becoming more than a game. Its becoming more and more less of a game. Its stale at this point. Idk if you've noticed but the player count for GT6 has dropped probbaly 10x more than it did for GT5. If they're focus shifts more on making partnerships and connections with events then GT is just gonna end up being a tool for racing drivers to train with or a simulator for a game show. Yea all these connections and partnerships are great achievements in ones career, but they're not the things that made people have fun with GT and they took out what made the game fun. Honestly Idk what it is but I know if I boot up my ps2 now with gt4 I would not sleep for days.