Is it cheating when.....

[slip2rock]

Do you consider it to be cheating if you:


1. run another car off the track or “shut the door” as the F1’ers call it? (e.g. nudge that blasted red Viper into the Armco in the last chicane on lap 4 of a 5 lap race in Seattle)

2. enter a wildly overpowered car of the right type for the purpose of getting the gold finish? (e.g. the Toyota GT-One in the MR series)

3. run harder tyres than the rest of the pack so you don’t have to pit as often?

4. take shortcuts over the grass? (e.g. Mountain Circuit under the bridge on the start / finish)

5. tailgate the leader all the way to the line and slipstream for the win?


Sorry to ask but there was a “heated discussion” the other night when I, ahem, nudged the Viper just so I could be sure of the win. Normally I try to run as clean a race as possible but if they shove me then I’m up for it too, especially if you’ve run the same race half a dozen times just to get pipped every time.

I mean seriously you wouldn’t enter an ass-kicking contest with your ankles tied together would you? So why not take advantage of game, errr, deficiencies if they are there?

My conscience is clear but I thought I’d ask, as I’d prefer the honourable win if possible.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

1. Run another car off the track or “shut the door” as the F1’ers call it? (e.g. nudge that blasted red Viper into the Armco in the last chicane on lap 4 of a 5 lap race in Seattle) Err, yeah. Pushing someone off for the win is cheating in my book.

2. Enter a wildly overpowered car of the right type for the purpose of getting the gold finish? (e.g. the Toyota GT-One in the MR series) No, that's not cheating. It is a pretty hollow victory however.

3. Run harder tyres than the rest of the pack so you don’t have to pit as often? No, definitely not cheating, it's plain common sense!

4. Take shortcuts over the grass? (e.g. Mountain Circuit under the bridge on the start / finish) Yeah, that's cheating, in the same way that taking a short cut in any race is considered to be cheating. All 4 wheels off the track = Bad.

5. Tailgate the leader all the way to the line and slipstream for the win? Definitely not. Especially if the leader's your mate, which is particularly satisfying. Assuming you haven't got the loser's speed boost running.

Sorry to ask but there was a “heated discussion” the other night when I, ahem, nudged the Viper just so I could be sure of the win. Normally I try to run as clean a race as possible but if they shove me then I’m up for it too, especially if you’ve run the same race half a dozen times just to get pipped every time.

I mean seriously you wouldn’t enter an ass-kicking contest with your ankles tied together would you? So why not take advantage of game, errr, deficiencies if they are there?

My conscience is clear but I thought I’d ask, as I’d prefer the honourable win if possible.

You gave the Viper a hefty punting, didn't you?!

Good questions!

 

[slip2rock]

Originally posted by GilesGuthrie
1. Run another car off the track or “shut the door” as the F1’ers call it? (e.g. nudge that blasted red Viper into the Armco in the last chicane on lap 4 of a 5 lap race in Seattle) Err, yeah. Pushing someone off for the win is cheating in my book.



You gave the Viper a hefty punting, didn't you?!

Good questions!

Blasted thing, that Viper he was all over me like a cheap suit, could not shake him at all. He was nudging me all the way round. On the last lap i was in the lead but on bald tyres, he broke right for the exit overtake manoveur and i just swept right.... In the mirror you could see it slamming into the wall. Got to say i crossed the line with laughter tears in my eyes my mate thought it was funny but a poor show.

 

[aljones]

Well, here is what I think....

1. run another car off the track or “shut the door” as the F1’ers call it? (e.g. nudge that blasted red Viper into the Armco in the last chicane on lap 4 of a 5 lap race in Seattle)

--> Yeah, I'd say that was cheating. It's not fair, and it's not sporting, so definately cheating.

2. enter a wildly overpowered car of the right type for the purpose of getting the gold finish? (e.g. the Toyota GT-One in the MR series)

--> No, it's not cheating, and while your learning its the best way to win races in my view, though as your skills develop driving a much better car than the competition isn't rewarding and soon gets very boring

3. run harder tyres than the rest of the pack so you don’t have to pit as often?

--> Cheating? No, why would it be. You can run whatever tyres you want to, just like the AI do.

4. take shortcuts over the grass? (e.g. Mountain Circuit under the bridge on the start / finish)

--> Yes, that cheating in my view, though it depends on a few things - Did you mean to cut the corner, or was it that you just didn't brake quickly enough so used the grass as an escape road. Also, it depends on how much you cut the corner. In my view, so long as one side of the car is still on the track/rumble strip, then thats not really cheating.

5. tailgate the leader all the way to the line and slipstream for the win?

--> Thats what the proffesionals do to win races, its just good racing, definately not cheating.

 

[Der Alta]

1. I try to race as clean as possible. However I've been know to bludgeon the second place runner in a series race into the last position (exquisite move on the red TT the other night at Trial Mtn.) in order to influence the race standings. A rare occasion, though. I do consider "Blocking and Rubbing" as acceptable tactics.

2. Again, I've done it before, and noticed that I don't enjoy the race as much. Instance 1: I took the 787B into the Beginner and Amatuer MR race, just to finish it quickly and it was my only MR car. Instance 2: Heavilly turbo'd Viper Concept in the Beginner S&S. Only because I didn't want to buy an eligible car, when I already had one.

3. No. Perfectly acceptable. Run the Harder tires, it's within the established rules.

4. No. The track isn't paved there for a reason. I've found that particular shortcut only works with higher powered cars. In the low power cars, you can't keep momentum through it. Aim for a clean race. But, being the hypocrit that I am, I've done it before.

5. Yes, that is called drafting. A definite part of real world racing.

I also have a clear conscience.

AO

 

[slip2rock]

Originally posted by aljones
Well, here is what I think....


4. take shortcuts over the grass? (e.g. Mountain Circuit under the bridge on the start / finish)

--> Yes, that cheating in my view, though it depends on a few things - Did you mean to cut the corner, or was it that you just didn't brake quickly enough so used the grass as an escape road. Also, it depends on how much you cut the corner. In my view, so long as one side of the car is still on the track/rumble strip, then thats not really cheating.

No, I'd spun on the turn before from first place straight into last and was prepared to do anything to catch up, totally pre-meditated, but definitely not the normal way I run my race. Bit of fustration showing through i guess.

 

[slip2rock]

Originally posted by Der Alta


4. No. The track isn't paved there for a reason. I've found that particular shortcut only works with higher powered cars. In the low power cars, you can't keep momentum through it. Aim for a clean race. But, being the hypocrit that I am, I've done it before.

I also have a clear conscience.

AO

That's the thing tho', you don't want to do it but you still will.... racing is racing and if there's no-one to pull you up you'll just go for it.

It did feel bad winning that way, but salved my soul with the thought that i never normally spin and it was late, i needed my bed and it was a done deal for the series anyway...... hmmm no, that one rankles still . It was not a good thing to do, not deliberatly.


Cheers guys, i'm gunna sit back and look out for the judgement.

 

[Der Alta]

yes, extenuating circumstances. You flubbed the previous corner and needed the win. It was a series race and it was late. I'd settle for that as justification.

Although the moral barometer does waver.

A 50/50 call. You won, but it wasn't clean. Not one to serve justice, I'd call for punishment as "time served".

AO

 

[Duke]

Moral perfection isn't required in this instance.
olice:
I don't initiate shoving against the AI, but if they knock me off, I give it back to them. My wife laughs at me because I apologize to the AI cars if I accidently nail one. I've also had the AI shut the door on me more than once and I haven't hesitated to take to the grass on the inside to go around them instead of hitting them. In certain instances there is almost no way to avoid it - the chicane at the bottom of the last dip on Apricot Hill, for instance. Everybody goes through the dirt on the inside of the second turn there.
:reallyodd
As far as tires and slingshot passing go, that's not even a blip on the radar screen. That's just good racing strategy. Ditto with blocking and rubbing. That's all part of the real game, so why shouldn't it be part of the game game?

On the subject of overbuilt cars in lower class races - haven't done it so far and don't intend to. I'm not really interested in "beating" the game as an end in itself. I'm interested in learning to drive better and improving my smoothness. Being able to massively out-power and out-brake the competition doesn't do anything to help that. I do like to have a little power advantage, but if I can run away from the field, I detune my car until it is more in line with the pack. That's one of the reasons I always qualify - I'll start a race anywhere from 4th up, but if I have the pole by more than a couple of seconds, I turn my car down until I'm in that bracket.

 

[f1king]

Id say no to all except when you enter a high powered race car against lesser powered cars.

 

[sukerkin]

Well said Neon Duke. Couldn't have put it better myself so I wont bore everyone by repeating your words!

Oh and don't worry about apologising to the AI cars if you nudge one (even if it is normally their fault for trying to shut the door too late) - I do it too, much to everyones amusement!

When we're running multi-player championships we use a simplified version of the real world GT rules and apply time penalties for infractions (it helps that one of our players is an ex-racer and can adjudicate decisions between what constitutes rubbing and what is 'flaggable').

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by sukerkin
When we're running multi-player championships we use a simplified version of the real world GT rules and apply time penalties for infractions (it helps that one of our players is an ex-racer and can adjudicate decisions between what constitutes rubbing and what is 'flaggable').

Heheheheh.

I don't have anyone to play GT3 against, but I do have a number of friends who are amateur racers in SCCA Showroom Stock and Improved Touring classes. So that's where I get my "track manners", even though I don't have the time or money to do it in real life...

 

[sukerkin]

even though I don't have the time or money to do it in real life...

And in my case the nerve as well! Having seen someone nearly get killed at almost every race I've attended I'm not all that eager to try it at Professional setting in real life! Now track days on the other hand ... mmm I wonder if the Marketing Manager'll lend me his TVR?

 

[kyle]

I don't care just as long as I win.

 

[Race Idiot]

j/k

Originally posted by kyle
I don't care just as long as I win.

Man I swear thats the only thing you post in here

j/k

 

[kyle]

Well you can't swear now.

 

[ic3^2_b4bi]

oh, come on, i use a gameshark, so what? i play the game for the fun of driving, not for winning fair and square!

 

[RGTmastachris]

none of it's cheating if you think the AI cars deserve it

 

[modik]

I frequently "control" the competition by blocking and nagging the second runner up in order to prevent him from adding up too many points. i.e. If the Denso Sard Supra is too close by means of points behind me and I plan on to skip races, I make sure I block him and don't let him pass the rest, blasting away during the final lap. I usually succeed.
As for the rest, all fours off the track in FIA rules means you get a time penalty. that's why you also fail in the license exams. So don't do it if you ask me. Hard and durable tyres ? Why on earth not ??
Overpowered cars ? If you can stand th lack of competition, go for it. But I wouldn't call a 12" gap in between with my closest follower a "race"...
For the sheer fun only I sometimes try every kind of dirty tricks like trying and denying the poor fella from pitting, ramming him off course, driving him out of the track all too frequently so he pits more frequently which means he loses big time, braking in front of him and keeping him spinning his rear tyres until all else blast away out of his reach. (That's what I do with a very powerful car though; like the R390 with S4 turbo)

 

[Supra897]

None of the above is conidered cheating in my book, UNLESS you're playing against a human opponent (you can still cut grass just in case).

 

[alex_gt]

Well I say keeping it all clean racing :gcar: is far more satisfying than gettin dirty... Slipstreams are perfectly acceptable, bhp is up to you.... tyres thats just stradergy (I can't spell that)......

Knocking other cars off is a bit harsh but a sly tap is ok...:fdevil:

 

[Sage]

Same as Modik... I agree with most of the other members on what's "morally" acceptable and what not, and certainly would abide by those rules if playing against a friend... But, sometimes, you just have to do something dirty on the AI to get your laugh for the day. It's especially fun to spin out one AI, then to see the rest of the cars slam into him, and they all lose. Evil me...

 

[MazKid]

Well, I do most of the above...I specialize in cutting the grass on Trial MT...as for the tires, I'll enter with super softs, I can drive on them worn out, and I never pit. I try not to bunt the other drivers out of the way, but I will try to do a fast pass(going right up behind them, slamming on the gas, passing them, and then cutting them off(not hitting them))and sometimes I'll pull a pit manuver on them around a corner to get them out of controll a little. Yea, overpowered cars are an easy win, but I've driven my 323(see my thread in the hybrid section)which is 91hp in the clubman series, and I won simply by out handleing them and driving to my fullest, so that's not really a factor with me.

But sometimes, I get a wild hair and will go all out to win, and will bash and crash the other drivers into ends of walls, into eachother, over curbing, just about anything. It's fun really...

 

[slip2rock]

Originally posted by youth_cycler
Same as Modik... I agree with most of the other members on what's "morally" acceptable and what not, and certainly would abide by those rules if playing against a friend... But, sometimes, you just have to do something dirty on the AI to get your laugh for the day. It's especially fun to spin out one AI, then to see the rest of the cars slam into him, and they all lose. Evil me...

Never done that, but will have by the end of the day

Cheers

 

[Frost16]

well about running through the grass i dont a prove but on my fifth try at a race iv had enough thats it ill cut through but not until then

i watched a little F1 racing(real) last night and the second and third place cut through the grass and in front of the dude in first to get ahead and it worked they won very cheap thats very hollow win!

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by youth_cycler
Same as Modik... I agree with most of the other members on what's "morally" acceptable and what not, and certainly would abide by those rules if playing against a friend... But, sometimes, you just have to do something dirty on the AI to get your laugh for the day. It's especially fun to spin out one AI, then to see the rest of the cars slam into him, and they all lose. Evil me...

Let's see you pull that stuff in TOCA Race Driver when it comes out.

 

[alex_gt]

Yeah TOCA will be a game for racing scraps and you'll pay the penalty with car damage....

Have there been any reviews on TOCA yet? Any out of 10 marks to go by? I'm still a bit critical of what TOCA will be like, will it be anything like the techincal detail of :gt:? Will it match Simulation Driving of GT....

 

[EliteRacer]

1. run another car off the track or “shut the door” as the F1’ers call it? (e.g. nudge that blasted red Viper into the Armco in the last chicane on lap 4 of a 5 lap race in Seattle)
"Rubin's Racin' Harry"

2. enter a wildly overpowered car of the right type for the purpose of getting the gold finish? (e.g. the Toyota GT-One in the MR series)

Depends really, if you needed the win bad then I'd say it's ok. Or if you had already beatin' it.On the other hand, If your just entering a car thats superpowered just to win for the heck of it, then I'd consider it cheating.

3. run harder tyres than the rest of the pack so you don’t have to pit as often?

Definatly NOT cheating. It's Just a better tactic.

4. take shortcuts over the grass? (e.g. Mountain Circuit under the bridge on the start / finish)

Hmm..50/50 for this.Still deciding....

5. tailgate the leader all the way to the line and slipstream for the win?

No, Not by my rules.


-These are just my opinions on the subject-

 

[viperguy]

Originally posted by ic3^2_b4bi
oh, come on, i use a gameshark, so what? i play the game for the fun of driving, not for winning fair and square!

same here.
my friend who has this says that i'm playing this like an a**hole since i cheat. i say,"well, why do you suddenly care about the way i play MY game?"

 

[sukerkin]

Fair enough comment viperguy. I guess different people look for different things from a game (pauses in shock at the originality of my thought!).

For myself, I always drive clean, don't cut grass and drive a car that's worse than the AI uses. But if someone gets what they're looking for from GT3 (i.e. fun), however they go about it, then where's the foul? Unless of course they cheat when they're multi-player racing with me ... then the rattle goes right out of the pram!