Is it just me? or is the G25's brake pedal way too sensative after the update?

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Christian_C

Christian_C

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Hi guys,

Just wondering if it was only me, but I find the G25's brake pedal is really too sensative after the update as before I never had an issue braking without abs but now it seems like with even a small amount of pressure the wheels lock and I slide into the gravel or the back end swaps around. Any suggestions on mayby countering this and are other people noticing this aswell?

oh and by the way ive already tryed adjusting the brake balance and even on 2 - 3 in the F40 its still locking the brakes and im only pressing the peddle down between 5mm-1cm.
 
I don't know about the wheel/ paddles , but you need stronger brake at the front rather than at the back.
IMO you can't really judge if those pedals are right when your brake setting are against how it works in RL ;) 👍

Try 2-1, or 4-2 ?
 
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Ah, lol ive changed that it doesn't do it as much now but I was just looking at the brake bar on the hud and at about 1cm pedal travel it was reading about 75% and I just cant see why that would be the case.
 
Wild guess, but did you make sure the brake pedal calibrated itself properly? In using the G25 and DFP on my PC I've found that sometimes the wheel/pedals will register any small input as 100% until you work the wheel/pedal through its full motion.
 
Wolfe
Wild guess, but did you make sure the brake pedal calibrated itself properly? In using the G25 and DFP on my PC I've found that sometimes the wheel/pedals will register any small input as 100% until you work the wheel/pedal through its full motion.
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Yeh, after both solutions it now works much better thanks guys!
 
Is it just me? or is the G25's brake pedal way too sensative after the update?

I think it could be me also - I'm alot more sensitive after the last update too.

Me along with many others on here where hoping for private rooms, damage and weather effects ect and because these were not delivered I've become very sensitive as a result.

You'd only have to 'look at my pint' and I'd try and rip your face off.

Anybody else on here 'way too sensitive' after the disappointing spec 3 update?

Are you snapping at people or becoming irritated quite easily more than ever before?
 
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TGM Tiddy
Hi guys,

Just wondering if it was only me, but I find the G25's brake pedal is really too sensative after the update as before I never had an issue braking without abs but now it seems like with even a small amount of pressure the wheels lock and I slide into the gravel or the back end swaps around. Any suggestions on mayby countering this and are other people noticing this aswell?

oh and by the way ive already tryed adjusting the brake balance and even on 2 - 3 in the F40 its still locking the brakes and im only pressing the peddle down between 5mm-1cm.
Click to expand...

Try 3-2
The back tire brakes always should be lower since less Force needed to lock them.

Usually After One lap, your tires get warmed up, then you can brake harder.
It's something PD still needs to adress and perfect.
 
NoxNoctis Umbra
The back tire brakes always should be lower since less Force needed to lock them.
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Not entirely right. GT5P sets brake sensitivity only, not the force. So a setting of 2/6 (front/rear) for instance, may still result in more force being applied by the front brakes than the rear (if brakes in front are much more powerful than in the rear). You would be right if the setting would apply to brake force. But it's not. ;)

As a matter of fact, I have many tunes with higher sensitivity settings for the rear than the front, to reduce understeer and increase oversteer while turning in and braking at the same time. :)
 
TGM Tiddy
Yeh, after both solutions it now works much better thanks guys!
Click to expand...

Your welcome . Glad I could help ( a little ) even if I don't have a wheel 👍


Nox Noctis wasn't that what I suggested aswell ? :cheers:

@ Craste : Yes me too, sensational post mate! :sly: 👍
 
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NLxAROSA
Not entirely right. GT5P sets brake sensitivity only, not the force. So a setting of 2/6 (front/rear) for instance, may still result in more force being applied by the front brakes than the rear (if brakes in front are much more powerful than in the rear). You would be right if the setting would apply to brake force. But it's not. ;)

As a matter of fact, I have many tunes with higher sensitivity settings for the rear than the front, to reduce understeer and increase oversteer while turning in and braking at the same time. :)
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What??? :confused::odd:
"Brake Bias is just a fancy way to describe how the total braking force is distributed between the front and rear tires."
Many factors affect the amount of braking force a tire can generate. The most important one is the force (weight, downforce, etc) pushing the tire against the ground (see sidebar on friction). As your car decelerates, weight is transferred from the rear to the front tires. This weight transfer reduces the amount of braking force the rear tires can produce. Apply too much braking to the rear wheels and they will lock up causing the rear end to lose traction and possibly swing around violently.

This is quote from a website describing BRAKE BIAS.

IT is the force applied to the brakes. Not how Sensitive they become.

If you have 6 in the back, and use less then R tires, They lock up way too fast, and then the whole car becomes a FISH.
 
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NoxNoctis Umbra
This is quote from a website describing BRAKE BIAS.
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You are quoting some website without any reference, but nonetheless that information is correct. Which I am not denying.

But I am quoting GT5P itself. GT5P clearly states that you can individually change the sensitivity of the front and rear brakes. We cannot change the power of the brakes itself. Read the descriptions in the GT5P tuning screens.

So if you have a car with larger brakes on the front and smaller on the rear (which is usually the case on stock cars), or you have changed ride height or downforce, a setting of 2/3 may very well still result in more force being applied at the front than at the rear (a.k.a. it's still front biased, despite the 2/3 setting). But it may also result in less understeer while turning in and braking at the same time, thus improving cornering. IMO sensitivity does not influence the amount of force that is applied, but rather how it is applied. Like springs do not influence the amount of weight that is being transferred, rather than how it is transferred. :)

Making a blanket statement that brake sensitivity in GT5P should always have a larger number for the front than the rear is simply wrong. We don't know what brakes are fitted in the front and in the rear, so you cannot say anything about the amount of force being applied to either. Weight distribution, ride height and down force are also added into the equation, so you cannot make a blanket statement like that, unless you know the exact settings of a specific car (since you can change all of those too, therefor changing the amount of weight applied to the front or rear of the car).

If we would know all the factors involved (I suspect we can in the full GT5), then we could make such a statement. For now, we can make only part of the equation. Right now there is only one way to see how a car is biased, and that is by taking it for a spin on the track of your choice, and verifying how it handles. And sometimes that leads to a setting where brake sensitivity for the front is lower than the rear, just check the tunes from any of the major tuners to see what I mean. And NO, these cars do not handle like fish. ;)

I have tuned many cars with a higher setting for the rear, and the front brakes would still lock up before the rear brakes (on a standard tune). Or they would not lock up (using ABS), but the understeer was so horrible it made me cry.

But there have been various discussions in the past about the braking physics, I seriously doubt we'll come to an agreement here. ;) The community seems firmly divided into two camps. :) But regardless of that, you cannot make a statement like that unless you know all factors involved.
 
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The matter here is rather that you should use more at the front , if you have ABS disabled than a general statement .
At least I thought so. 👍
 
I actually did some testing a while ago, because I was also under that assumption. But even with ABS set to 0 I found that the front wheels lock up much earlier than the rear with certain cars. Especially when turning in at the same time. This resulted in me having to lower the front brake sensitivity more than the rear, resulting in a lower setting for the front. I know it sounds exactly like the opposite you would want to do, but those were the results, which at the time surprised me as well. :) This does not apply to all cars however. The only way to determine the optimal setting is to go out and try. Though I must admit I have not done a thorough test without ABS after the Spec III update. Worth a try. The new tyre physics may show different results now.
 
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I see, I tested this also before SpecIII ... however Im not convinced that the brakes work that way suggested in the manual.
I mean at the end it's a Polyphony game LOL
I agree you sometimes need stronger brakes at the rear wheels although this really depends on the car and setup and is always some sort of compromise like staggering tyres imo.
My real grip with this is that it's completely unrealistic ... e.g. in F1 the only guy ever using break bias 50/50 was M. Webber, all other drivers are using more towards front even in the rain.
So all I try to say is, it's wrong in GTs QTS somehow ...:crazy:
 
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H20HYBRID_GT
My real grip with this is that it's completely unrealistic...So all I try to say is, it's wrong in GTs QTS somehow ...:crazy:
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+1, I have tuned cars with an optimal setting of something like 2/6, which is.... well, let's call it 'odd'. ;) But tyre physics were way off before the August 1 update as well, and PD has corrected that very nicely. :)
 
When you start you first race after starting the game, while you're on the grid press the pedal all the way to the stop - this will solve the problem.
 
NLxAROSA
But regardless of that, you cannot make a statement like that unless you know all factors involved.
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You tell me I can not make a statement like that unless I know all factors? I use my settings all the time and always very stable for most cars i use at braking points. Same when I brake and turn.


You pretty much made a bold statement as well telling the guy to use HEAVY brakes in the back then front.. and yet you tell me not to state my... wow..

So maybe our both statements are bold?


You are right about smaller/weaker brakes in the back.

By the way.. FORCE vs PRESSURE/Sensitivity.
Are the both work in the same way?
Example. Brake Bias at 3, you need to push Brake almost to the end to lock them
Brake bias at 9, you need to push brake tiny bit to lock them
So pretty much they both work in same way?
 
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NoxNoctis Umbra
You tell me I can not make a statement like that unless I know all factors? I use my settings all the time and always very stable for most cars i use at braking points. Same when I brake and turn.
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So your settings work for you, and maybe for others too. That's good. :)

NoxNoctis Umbra
You pretty much made a bold statement as well telling the guy to use HEAVY brakes in the back then front.. and yet you tell me not to state my... wow.. So maybe our both statements are bold?
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Please quote my post stating that I advise him to use heavier brakes in the rear, because I haven't given any advice in this thread. Please read my posts more carefully, because I have made no such statement. Unless I wasn't clear enough and should have made it more clear that it was just an example. ;)

The only thing I did was provide an example when responding to this statement:
NoxNoctis Umbra
The back tire brakes always should be lower since less Force needed to lock them.
Click to expand...

This statement is simply not true in GT5P. Many cars feature brakes which lock up earlier in the front than in the rear, thus requiring a higher sensitivity in the rear than in the front to be most effective. Maybe not in the real world, but in GT5P they do. (And yes, I have tested this with many cars, both with and without ABS) I must admit that I did not test this since the last update, so it may have changed, since the last update modified tyre physics.

This does not mean your settings are invalid, especially when using ABS. But the optimal setting may or may not have a higher setting in front than in the rear. Like I said, the only way to know the optimal setting, is by testing it on the track. This also varies per driver, since we might not be braking at the same points. So you and I could have different settings to suit our style (e.g. you run best with a 4/3 setting and I run best with a 3/4 setting).

Brake physics have been discussed many times here before, and unless they change them, they will be discussed many times after this one. ;) I have noticed some really weird behaviour when testing with and without ABS. ;)

NoxNoctis Umbra
By the way.. FORCE vs PRESSURE/Sensitivity.
Are the both work in the same way?
Click to expand...
Force is affected by sensitivity (as we all can notice), but they're not the same. ;)
 
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NLxAROSA
Force is affected by sensitivity (as we all can notice), but they're not the same. ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah, they are not the same, but they work pretty much in same manner right? The higher the number, the faster the LOCK UP ;)

My current setting if I have ABS off is 3/2 in first lap when tires are still cold.
Then after one Lap for some cars I go 4/3 since tires are warm up, and its still hard to lock up.. (depending what car and If I use R tires)

I am starting to love the pop up tune while racing, or whatever you call it. I am ready for ENDURANCE race now :D



P.S.
I will try up you're setting when Brakes are Higher at back.. As well I will over-do it to see if It is possible to lock up Rear Tires first before locking up front. :)
Thanks to new pop-up settings during race, I can all do it in one GO :).
 
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Note that a higher setting for the rear might not suit your driving style at all. It's a matter of trying really. :) One of the cars I noticed a low/high setting worked very well, is the Viper/Tuned. I think the downforce on the rear wheels is largely responsible for this. :)
 
I did some brake testing at Fuji online free run in a Suzuki Cervo SR 07. I picked this car because it has the lowest PP. I installed r3 tires for best traction and turned tc and abs off. I took straight runs across the start finish line at 65 mph and slammed on the brakes taking note of where I stopped. I started with the brake adjustment at 0/0 and worked my way up to 10/10.
0/0 there was no lockup and car just kinda coasted to a stop.
1/1 no lockup but stopped in a much shorter distance
2/2 no lockup but stopped even sooner
3/3 same thing
4/4 same thing
5/5 started hearing tire scrub and stopping distance was decreased by a small amount
6/6 louder tire scrub small decrease in stopping distance
7/7 some tire squeal and lockup. Stopping distance hard to tell.
8/8 lockup with smoke from tires
9/9 lockup sooner
10/10 lockup sooner

My observations of this test are, that by increasing the brake adjustment you get more braking "FORCE" up to the point where you get lockup at full application. Beyond that, by increasing brake adjustment you could say you are increasing "FORCE" and "SENSITIVITY" as it will now take less applied pedal travel to lockup.
Now this was just one test with one car, at one speed on one track. I'm sure different cars will get lockup with less brake adjustment sooner and maybe some later, but the same theory, so to speak, should be seen with other cars.
Now as far as getting a car to stop and/or turn let's not forget about basic physics. A mass traveling in a straight line will tend to continue on a straight line until some force is acted upon it and, if you double the mass or double the speed of an object it will take 10 times the distance to stop or 10 times the force to stop it in the same distance.
 
Hey RussRobit, thanks for testing that. :) Did you test straight line only or also the behaviour while turning in at the same time as braking? I'm also interested in which wheels locked up first, the front or the rear, or both?
 
No NLxAROSA, I only tested straight line just to see if we get more force or just sensitivity from the brake adjuster.
As far as cornering while braking goes, I think each individual car and each setup will differ depending on springs, shocks aero etc. I have had cars that just seemed to go around on me no matter what I did. Sometimes it's the rear shocks being to strong and actual causing the rear to lift off the ground under heavy braking/cornering, rotating the car around the fronts.
I think the next thing to test is if we actually have 4 wheel independent abs or if one wheel starts to lock does it back off on the other 3 also. I won't have any time for the next few day's for testing, so maybe if you run any tests you could post some results. :)
 
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NLsAROSA
I was playing around with brake bias. And I now know what you mean, and yeah, for some cars it's better to have better/higher number on back tires then the front :)
 

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