Is it just not aerodynamic enough?

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genlee01

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Hey I was wondering is a fully modified (without wing) 71 Charger aero dynamic enough to go past 200mph. I think it is but I can only get it to 197 without nitrous. Is there anyway to make it faster without adding an ugly wing or using nitrous that will last for only 1 lap ?
 
Since the charger has a big displacement engine and has 8 cylinders, most of its powerband is concentrated in the middle area of rev range. If you haven't bought a full-custom transmission, then that is the first step. Try tuning the gears and maybe try to use more of the middle range of the rev to get the most power. :)

This is just my own opinion, and Im not really into muscles cars, so Im just saying what I know off my head:dopey:
 
Adding a wing is also unlikely to help much as it will allow you to increase downforce, which in turn will increase drag and slow you down.

Gearing is about the best way to go, have a look around the 300mph+ thread for hints and tips (I know the speed is far in excess of that you are trying to achieve) as these guys have plenty of experience in the area of high speed runs.

Regards

Scaff
 
Scaff
Adding a wing is also unlikely to help much as it will allow you to increase downforce, which in turn will increase drag and slow you down.
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In Gran Turismo at least, increased rear downforce in RWD and 4WD cars will improve traction through the driving wheels, increasing overall speed. Of course, other suspension settings must be tweaked in order to get the right effect, but certainly, cars can go faster with the wing than without.

As for the Dodge Charger, I wasn't sure if you used the Super Bee or not, so I just used the standard one (which has lower horspower in stock form), and after tuning I was able to hit 206.20mph on the test track first time out. This was despite trashing the gearing (I was in 300mph mode, and so the car didn't have enough power to use 6th gear), and so it can go faster if this is taken into account. This was without NOS, and without a wing. 👍
 
MasterStorm
In Gran Turismo at least, increased rear downforce in RWD and 4WD cars will improve traction through the driving wheels, increasing overall speed. Of course, other suspension settings must be tweaked in order to get the right effect, but certainly, cars can go faster with the wing than without.
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Bloody GT4 and its abuse of the laws of physics.....

grumble, grumble


......Scaff
 
I used the super bee and custom gear box, the settings for it are
1st 3.276
2nd 2.142
3rd 1.537
4th 1.158
5th .918
6th .764
Final 3.070
 
Just tried the Super Bee... 210.40mph first time out on the test track (and again, with a very broken gearing setup), again with no wing and no NOS.

That was with the supercharger, so for completeness I ran the same settings, except with the stage 3 NA tune, reaching 206.27mph

I don't think your gearing is the problem to be honest, more so your suspension setup. 👍
 
Duċk;2419824
Yep. Lower the car all the way, have 0 for camber and toe, and it should go faster. 👍
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Not what I did at all. Infact, none of my 300mph setting have the car fully lowered, or zero toe/camber.

I guess GT4 physics are just a little rough round the edges, which is why Scaff's suggestion was wrong (in terms of GT4) too. :crazy:
 
MS
Not what I did at all. Infact, none of my 300mph setting have the car fully lowered, or zero toe/camber.
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Ditto. Listen to the man, 300mph tuning tells you what works and what doesn't. Guessing what to do to get high speeds is not a good thing to do - GT4 butchers physics, do not use real life logic to figure out what to do. Only experience with the game is any use, and MS has plenty, so let him take over this thread :p 👍

DE
 
Well I lowered the car and 0 camber and got to 199mph. I am soooo close I wouldn't mind 220mph now that I now know it's potential. I want this car to be able to run with some super cars. I about got the handling to where it does good on twisty corners. My Dodge Vipers time was 1:26.550 with driving aids at Infineon stock car course the Charger without driving aids was 1:27.455. But all I need now is the speed part. If it ruins my suspension setup I don't care I now just wanna go fast
 
Well I did a track meet at the test course today. most of the cars were stuff that could do almost 220mph. VW W12, Speed 12, Mercedes SLR Mclaren. And drafting these cars I could run with them even get around them. But the as soon as I get around the lead car it's back to normal running 199. It might just be that the car is the aerodynamic equivalent of a vending machine. It is also very twitchy at 200+ If you dont pay attention the car will spin out and then you have to start over so I might need to do some suspension work.
 
ok I'm still running 199 w/o nitrous. I know it's probably something like the drive ratio. I thinking of changing it from the 3.070 to 2.920 Could this help out. I want to do this fairly, no nitrous, wheelie tricks, or trans trick.
 
You cant wheelie the Super Bee, even with nitrous. It's simply not light/fast enough for that. 👍

As I said before I think your concentrating too much on the gears. For me I just set auto to 25 and reduced final to 3.600. I later tried 3.300 on final too, and was only 0.37mph slower, so I really think the aerodynamics are whats holding the car back at the top end, rather than fine tuning of the gears.

Start in a new slot, and try some radical suspension settings as part of your setup, eventually you'll find what's fastest. I'll also say that my setup certainly wasn't as twitchy at 200mph as you describe yours to be.

The car is definitely aerodynamic enough to do 200mph and higher, as I detailed in my earlier post. I'll happily put up videos to demonstrate that if needs be. :)
 
I tried your gearing with my suspension setup, and the thing that struck me is that although theoretically long enough for well over 200mph, by about 195mph your so far out of the torque band that the car has almost zero acceleration. That said, I was still able to hit 200.41mph with it, which I guess proves my point that your gearing was already 200mph capable.

Looking back at your posts, you mention you have driving aids on... ditch the ASM immediately. This controls inner/outer wheel braking, which only serves to slow you down; not what we want in a top speed run. I'd also reduce the final by a good margin, so that the car stays in the torque band longer.

As for my suspension, I set the spring rate as soft (low values) as possible, then the front of the car as high as possible (180mm), and the rear as low as possible (99mm). These are common 300mph tuning practices, but work (to a lesser extent) on most cars. There was of course some other suspension tuning, but I don't think they make a significant impact in the Super Bee. I also think that reducing the final gear would make a far greater impact on your current setup than any suspension tuning.

For the video run, I used my suspension setup, and your gearing, except I reduced final all the way down to 2.500.

Dodge Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71 @ 210.49mph [screen] [video]
 
Ok but I have a question. Why was the suspension set with the ride height so high in the front? You can't do the wheelie trick. If you were to lower it less air would get under the car and it would go faster it seems like
 
genlee01
Why was the suspension set with the ride height so high in the front?
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The triangle/wedge shape cause by raising the front allows air to get underneath the car and push it upwards, reducing overall downforce, and therefore reducing one of the aerodynamic influences which slow the car down. We keep the rear low (and if we could, increase rear downforce) in order to keep as much traction in the driving (rear) wheels as possible.

Hope that helps. 👍
 
MS
As for my suspension, I set the spring rate as soft (low values) as possible, then the front of the car as high as possible (180mm), and the rear as low as possible (99mm). These are common 300mph tuning practices, but work (to a lesser extent) on most cars.
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MS
The triangle/wedge shape cause by raising the front allows air to get underneath the car and push it upwards, reducing overall downforce, and therefore reducing one of the aerodynamic influences which slow the car down. We keep the rear low (and if we could, increase rear downforce) in order to keep as much traction in the driving (rear) wheels as possible.
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:p You're spilling secrets left right and centre :lol: 👍

DE
 
Well I got 204 and I'm happy with that I have a musclecar that can now compete with more exotic stuff. The suspension I lowered instead of raising in the front and changed the gear ratio to about 2:920. It is now faster than the Viper that I had and almost as fast as my stock Ford GT
 
Thanks I was just wanting a fast muscle car. No seems to have done that and take it seriously. My buddy was shocked when he noticed that the Charger was on the bumper of his Pagani at LeMans. I won.
 

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