Is Scuderia Cameron Glickenhaus Coming to GT Sport? It Depends on the Price...

[Superhero Wally]

This entire debate is ridiculous. The GT franchise literally changed the game 25 years ago. Look at what they started. They made the sim racing industry what it is today. You can argue all you want they didn't, but how many people on this forum would even be sim racing, if PD didn't introduce GT to the console world? How many of those original 13 manufacturers, were put on the map, let alone became household names around the world because GT? How many manufacturers(ahem Lotus) jumped on board for GT2, after seeing what GT did for those in the OG? I know of at least two models(I'm sure there are more)that more than likely would have never been sold in the US, if it wasn't for GT, the WRX and Evo. That's game changing. Every brand isn't equal. Lotus, SCG, aren't worth what Porshce, and Ferarri are as far as bringing customers to the game. Either you want to be a part of that, or you don't. Obviously these manufacturers have a number that they think they're worth, but PD has to take in consideration, that they have to send people out, or have vehicles brought in to recreate in meticulous, unmatched detail, at no additional cost to us the customer. How many companies are doing that? In a world where I promise you someone is trying to figure out a way to make us pay for oxygen on a monthly subscription, we should be happy with what we get from a business, at no additional cost on top of a relatively paltry cost of ~$60usd. So sit back, shut up and enjoy the ride. This goes double people complaining about the vehicles and other items we receive in updates.

 

[Tomhlord]

I always think it's so weird that the game developer has to spend time and money to accurately model a car then has to pay for the privilege.

It's promoting your business in an engaging way.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I always think it's so weird that the game developer has to spend time and money to accurately model a car then has to pay for the privilege.

It's promoting your business in an engaging way.

Yes, but it’s also a product that’s producing profit on the presence of your product within it. I’d incline to want royalties out of it too. It’s still business after all.

 

[McLaren]

How many of those original 13 manufacturers, were put on the map, let alone became household names around the world because GT?

None.

Founding years: Aston in 1913, Chevrolet in 1911, Dodge in 1900, Honda in 1946, Mazda in 1920, Mitsubishi in 1870, Nissan in 1933, Subaru in 1953, Toyota in 1937, TVR in 1946. Acura was the youngest in 1986, but had already had a near-decade of the NSX in the US bringing the company to light by GT's arrival.

How many manufacturers(ahem Lotus) jumped on board for GT2, after seeing what GT did for those in the OG?

The most GT2 did for the manufacturers was get their names out in other regions they weren't in, to a newer generation. At the end of the day however (US-specifically), it's not like Citroen, Fiat, Lancia, MG, Opel, Peugeot, Renault, or Vauxhall actually ended up coming stateside anyway afterwards, and most Americans probably still don't know who they are or are likely old enough to remember when some of them were here years before Gran Turismo. I'm 99.9999% positive Europe had an idea about these brands before even GT1.

The only manufacturers who have truly ever benefited from early GT titles were RUF & Nissan. Vector, Venturi, Tommy Kaira are virtually unknown outside automotive circles, and Nissan's GT-R name had just about ended production before Nissan could bring it stateside.

I applaud your admiration for the series, but these points are exaggerated.

 

[Downhill Dino]

Didn't the U.S. get the Mitsubishi Evo partly because of GT? I am by no means saying there was any benefitting here but curious as that's what I've read over the years.

 

[McLaren]

Didn't the U.S. get the Mitsubishi Evo partly because of GT? I am by no means saying there was any benefitting here but curious as that's what I've read over the years.

To my understanding, the Evo came because the WRX did well. I have read Subaru tested the waters in the US with a 2.5RS before the WRX was introduced, but I'd welcome a source that says Subaru credited Gran Turismo for the WRX's popularity in the states.

 

[AlanH49]

I do think Lotus are losing out by not being in Gran Turismo. They struggle for mindshare at the best of times. They’re also a brand within reach of the average person. At least if we’re talking second hand values. Gran Turismo is one of those series that brings such brands to prominence. Particularly for younger drivers with an eye on their first performance car.

Glickenhaus is obviously a very different brand. With a very different clientele. But this is where they can use their exclusivity and boutique status to their advantage. James (Glickenhaus) and Kaz could sit down they could put together a deal that would take months to work out with a major OEM. Imagine if they launched their 007 Hypercar virtually in Gran Turismo as the real thing hit the track. Same for the brands other new cars. That’s a way to elevate the brand and it’s status within the series.

 

[FoRiZon]

Didn't the U.S. get the Mitsubishi Evo partly because of GT? I am by no means saying there was any benefitting here but curious as that's what I've read over the years.

Youre thinking of Nissan Skyline which was illegal in US for the time.

 

[Downhill Dino]

To my understanding, the Evo came because the WRX did well. I have read Subaru tested the waters in the US with a 2.5RS before the WRX was introduced, but I'd welcome a source that says Subaru credited Gran Turismo for the WRX's popularity in the states.

That makes sense, go where the competition is. I've read about the 2.5RS thing as well so I would also think the WRX came around by itself.

Youre thinking of Nissan Skyline which was illegal in US for the time.

Definitely thinking of the Evo. I know the Skyline story too well.

 

[TonyJZX]

I can give you my perspective of Gran Turismo and the JDM 'import craze' movement over here.

The WRX came out first and sort of became its own thing even without GT. It became notorious in it own right by being owned by miscreants like us who occasionally ran foul of the law. Further to that the car became famous for being used in armed robberies with the wagon version especially in "snatch and grabs".

The EVO came out too and the Tommy Makkinen became famous due to being uninsurable and the police went out of their way to demonise these cars since their old V8 cruisers couldnt keep up. In fact the police bought a few to use as highway patrol cars but they didnt fit in with their batman belts and glocks.

To be fair to Gran Turismo, the whole import thing was intertwined with it AND the Paul Walker thing.

However it kind of died once a bunch of factors fell into place.

It used to be that it seemed like every second car on the roads was an import. But I think the local market saw the need for higher performance cars and the audience kind of grew up.

Further I think the market got too expensive. Back then wages meant you could have a roof over your head and a fast car.

Now you choose.

 

[mef]

I do think Lotus are losing out by not being in Gran Turismo. They struggle for mindshare at the best of times. They’re also a brand within reach of the average person. At least if we’re talking second hand values. Gran Turismo is one of those series that brings such brands to prominence. Particularly for younger drivers with an eye on their first performance car.

Glickenhaus is obviously a very different brand. With a very different clientele. But this is where they can use their exclusivity and boutique status to their advantage. James (Glickenhaus) and Kaz could sit down they could put together a deal that would take months to work out with a major OEM. Imagine if they launched their 007 Hypercar virtually in Gran Turismo as the real thing hit the track. Same for the brands other new cars. That’s a way to elevate the brand and it’s status within the series.

Being both racers I think Kaz and Glickenhaus could agree. But the business side and clientele of Gran Turismo vs Glickenhaus customers are quite different and will be for a very long time.
The chances of somebody deciding to buy a Glickenhaus race car because of raised profile in a game are very slim. For this to make sense would mean Glickenhaus wanting to grow beyond selling cars to race teams, and at this point this does not seem the case.

So, yes, I agree that Kaz and Glickenhaus probably like the idea of having the cars in the game, but the business case for it is not there. Likely Kaz has little say in this, fees would be paid for or authorized by Sony most likely.

 

[AlanH49]

Being both racers I think Kaz and Glickenhaus could agree. But the business side and clientele of Gran Turismo vs Glickenhaus customers are quite different and will be for a very long time.
The chances of somebody deciding to buy a Glickenhaus race car because of raised profile in a game are very slim. For this to make sense would mean Glickenhaus wanting to grow beyond selling cars to race teams, and at this point this does not seem the case.

So, yes, I agree that Kaz and Glickenhaus probably like the idea of having the cars in the game, but the business case for it is not there. Likely Kaz has little say in this, fees would be paid for or authorized by Sony most likely.

Glickenhaus being in Gran Turismo is not to sell more cars. It’s a prestige thing. This is the title with Pebble Beach winners modelled in exquisite detail. Cars like the 330P4 & MKIV that Glickenhaus also happens to own.

Glickenhaus going to Le Mans could benefit from a partnership with Gran Turismo. On & off the track. Any brand wants their racing activities reported as widely as possible. A great way to do that is via video games and social media.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I always think it's so weird that the game developer has to spend time and money to accurately model a car then has to pay for the privilege.

It's promoting your business in an engaging way.

I love lots of cars that have been featured in the GT series, and to a point because they were featured in the GT series. Take the classic 90's JDM cars... they were current(ish) desirable cars at the time I started playing GT in the late 90's. Twenty years later I'm still enjoying hooning around in Supra's, R33's, GTO's etc. etc. they're a cherished part of the game for me and the car selection is typically the reason (or a big part of it), that I buy Gran Turismo.

.. so, who's made money from my affection for these brands and their cars?

Sony? Well I've bought a Playstation, a PS2, a PS3, a PSP, and a PS4 - certainly 3 of those were for GT. Thrustmaster made money on the T500 I bought just for GT. Then there's PD... GT, GT2, GT3, GT Concept Tokyo-Geneva, GT4, GT4, GT PSP, GT HD, GT5, GT5 signature edition, GT5 Academy edition, GT6, GT Sport.... all bought new (other versions I've bought second hand). Then there's the retailers that make their margin on this.

Now how much money have I given to Toyota? £0... Nissan?.. £0, Mitsubishi, £0..., and it goes on like that. Virtually no manufacturer in Gran Turismo has ever had a penny of my money... BMW has, but they would have anyway.

.. so basically, Polyphony, Sony, Thrustmaster, HMV, Choices video, Amazon, GAME, Virgin Megastore and a number of other stores have had my money because of products from Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi etc. etc. etc. and yet those manufacturers have had none of my money.

Licensing is a way of monetising your intellectual property from those who are also going to make money from it. It is only fair that a portion of those profits go back to those that create the IP, and licensing costs enable that.

As for PD spending the time accurately modelling the car, sure, that's part of the value they add, and that's paid for by me buying the game.

Now, this is of course a balance. A video game is a marketing platform, and manufacturers have massive budgets for marketing. Giving away the license for free might be a cost effective way of doing this, but it only works if it's effective marketing. It's not hard to imagine that some brands look at the gamer demographic and it matches up with their target demographic for a certain vehicle... so that's useful promotion. In cases like SCG - it's not going to be effective promotion. Jim's most direct route to monetizing his brand amongst the 99.999% of the population that can never buy one of his products is to license the brand for other people who can make money off it.

Sure, it sucks for us that really want specific cars, and I'd love SCG to be in the game, but it's simple business. Promotion is a loss if it doesn't bring in any profit.

 

[Hoopzah]

Meh, their loss. They're technically not even a manufacturer but a design team that builds frames.. with an egomaniac (at best) for a CEO. When they've got capital to develop their own engines then they can call themselves an auto manufacturer. Overpriced Ferrari knockoffs is what it is. "Oh well when we're paid an offer that others make.." Hahaaa... Yea.. okay.. how about when you come up with your own tech??

 

[GlamFM]

I think Glickenhaus are really oversteimating the value of their brand.

 

[TonyJZX]

I dont really care for many niche manufacturers however there are a heap of companies that technicially "dont make their own engines" and yet they are some of the most influential and important.

Lotus uses Toyota engines.

The McLaren F1 uses the BMW s70... the current 3,8 v8 is a Nissan design (the VR35?)... also used in the Volvo mid engined s60 StCC. The Mercedes McLaren SLR.

Pagani = AMG motors

Koeniggegg used to use Ford DOHC V8s, the 'modular'

You can reel off the niche companies like the Saleen S7, the Factory Fives, SuperPerformance, Hennessey, Weissman, Gumpert Apollo, KTM, Shelby, Spyker, Caterham... some of these are definite Gran Turismo icons.

I would put SCG way way way down below any of these guys simply because they are unproven and they're not in the road car market.

 

[MatskiMonk]

When they've got capital to develop their own engines then they can call themselves an auto manufacturer. Overpriced Ferrari knockoffs is what it is

That's an interesting opinion for someone with a Maserati in their avatar.

 

[FoRiZon]

They're technically not even a manufacturer but a design team that builds frames..

Anything wrong with that? RUF did something even worse yet people still adore them.

with an egomaniac (at best) for a CEO

You know him in person?

When they've got capital to develop their own engines then they can call themselves an auto manufacturer. Overpriced Ferrari knockoffs is what it is. "Oh well when we're paid an offer that others make.." Hahaaa... Yea.. okay.. how about when you come up with your own tech??

The boutique part is there for a reason.

Also you talk rich, probably thinking that business doesnt cost money to run. You'll be surprised on just how even an actual big manufacturer relies on other companies, like the new Fiat 124 to Mazda Roadster and new Toyota Supra to new BMW Z4.

And before you go, this is their last, more original effort. See, they're more developed now. Businesses takes time to grow, not suddenly become big from daddy's pocket, probably.

 

[TonyJZX]

Being a billionaire does things to be certain people. But hey we cant all be pleasant personable people like Horatio or Christian Von...

I'm sure I'd be pretty unpleasant too if I could order a custom Ferrari.

Businesses takes time to grow, not suddenly become big from daddy's pocket, probably.

Certain presidents would disagree with you but hey let's make Le Mans American again...

 

[Glickenhaus]

For those who might want to see how our road legal SUV does off road here's a video for you. As an aside the one it's based on was owned and driven by Steve McQueen and designed by the guy who designed the lunar Rover. Kas likes this one too.