I've got a few bones to pick (warning: may be long and irrational)

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I've loved the GT series since i first got it for christmas back in 1998 (im pretty sure). I love the variety of cars, the tuning, and the great physics. However, ive grown increasingly annoyed at the developers of the game and ive decided to vent it to all you guys who i figure would be the only ones to listen. (this may be long).

My first point is about American cars and Chevy in particular. PD seems to be lazy and make some bad choices about car selection when it comes to American hardware. My favorite car is the Corvette and while im glad its been in the entire series, its never at the same point as it should be. what i mean by that is when GT1 came out in 1998 the new C5 had already been out for 2 model years, yet they kept the 1996 standard model (with an odd turbine blade wheel choice instead of the second ZR-1 wheels). When GT2 came out they had the new mustang (and 3 model years ahead of C5) which was great, but wait, still no C5!?! Alrite alrite, so GT3 comes out finally...wait they use the previous model years model Z06 which is down 15 horsepower. Ok great the new C6 is out and the 2006 Eclipse and 05 mustang are in the game so...um this corvette is from 2001. No C6. they couldn't even use the next years model and just give it a little power boost or even put it in the used lot since its 5 f'ing years old!!!! Like many cars of GT4, the C5 was jsut a direct copy and paste from GT3, no retooling, updating color schemes or even a real valid explanation for its apperance ( more on this) it just happened to be in the system so throw it in the new game.

With American cars in general, i ask, did the designers ever even listen to any of them fire up? I guess i could live with some of the choices as long as they got the notes of all them right, but no. My SS 454 sounds like an f'ing Honda Pilot. Whenever you put a racing filter/muffler set on these V8 cars, they sound like they switched with the hondas (and some of them sound suprisinly rough and deep)

Why are there so many damn concept cars. especially when the concept car and the resultant car are both in the game in makes no sense (Honda NSX-R concept). Half of these cars didnt even have working drivetrains when you saw them roll out or if they did they most likeyl had whatever was lying around and could fit.

Why is the Ford GT the cover car? I love American cars as you ve surely noticed, but i really have no real respect for the car. It was more of a market tool than any type of 'supercar' developed for FoMoCo's centennial, that means 100 years for you slow ones. If they were gonna base a car on such a great race car, though we all know the mark IV was by far faster, it should emulate it or msybe update it in someways. No they designed the car to look exactly like the GT40 except for a massive size gain, most notably the height no longer 40 inches for what the GT40 was named. then they jsut strap a supercharger on a 4 valved truck motor and off it goes, in stark contrast to where a 'high winding' N/A v8 inspired by the race cars power plant- a worked 5.0 cammer would ve been great. When the developers try to make it into a race car it just looks ridiculous, especially racing real cars like the pescy/judd and Bentley. Apparently they didnt no Le Mans winning designs have changed quite a bit in 35-40 years. It would seem weird though to race a car that won Le Mans outright 4 years in a row to race with GT cars. through all this ive concluded Ford relies too heavily on both retro designs and power adders.
sidenote-Ferraris 'entry level model' the F430 spanks Fords 'supercar' the GT in

Ok now after that we got to car choice in terms of company cars. Panoz i no it is a cut and past from GT3 butr whyd they had it there becasue they couldnt engineer open canopy views-now they can so why do they still have it? it was a horrible design and never won S***. and only slightly improved by the Lmp version which i think wouldve been more appropraite or even some of their new GT cars.
Dome- dome makes some good prototype racers, like the checkered coverd judd powered examples that ran at le mans, but no an ugly ass concept from 1978.
Eagle- ooooh a Tsi that'll make a great drag car. oh wait its a base Esi with Fwd. Im sure its great on gas mileage....
Chapparall- i cant remember the model name,ill find out later but it seems stupid to not include the high winged model that brought aerodynamics into GT racing in a huge way.
AC- having both Shelby and AC cobra 427's makes no sense. The AC wastn really produced like that it was the AC ace before Shelby turned it into the cobra
Cadillac- the Cien thats cool, but where are all the great new cars coming out like the CTS, CTSv, XLR, SRX-whic would clean up in the truck race- and STS.

Tuners- all these great tune shops are cool and a welcomed addition, though they offer the same products, it seems cool. except for the one german based tuner HPA, they are all japanese. Americans and Europeans cant tune cars? shouldve thrown Saleen and Calaway in that category as well as others like AC shnitzer, Ligenfelter, and Hennessey and RUF really belongs there too. And Nissan parts are done by NISMO, honda by Mugen, but They couldnt just throw GMPP just for a more professional look?

Why is Acura in the japanese section while Lexus Infiniti and Scion are in the American section? Um they arent American. I would argue that since Acura has been here since 86 versus 89 for Infiniti and Lexus, its more 'american' but really these companies do the same ****, sell high end japanese cars becasue people dreaded spending a lot of dough on a Japanese car and using a pseudo name would convince people it was different (mainly idiots or people who try to act high end)

ok im done, for now.... thanks if you made it this far... ill have more complaints for you soon.

ps i havnt even gotten to the driving portions so be tuned for that :)
 
Dude, it's just a game.

I mean, sure, plenty of what you've said may be valid but keep in mind the Gran Turismo series is only Yamauchi's production, from his perspective on motor racing.

I don't think PD has the resources to make the perfect racing simulation. You would need a multi-national team of motor-industry expert scrutineers to overlook the game's development and make sure all manufacturers are represented fairly and accurately, and even then it would be hard to satisfy all motoring enthusiasts. The disclaimer does after all say something along the lines of "cars may differ in appearance/performance from their real life counterpart..."

Personally, I'm just glad they put Holden and FPV in there.

As the game stands, GT4 is enough to keep me busy at the DFP wheel for the next 12 months at least :)
 
One word. Car availability. They put in anything they could get their hands on... and, wait... they're a Japanese programming team, so what can they get their hands on most easily? Japanese cars.

I'm as pissed as the next guy about not being able to find the car I want in GT4 (and surprise, surprise, it's Japanese!), but then, you just can't please everybody. :(

By the way, the AC 427 SC isn't the same as the AC Cobra. It was made after the Cobra took off in an effort by AC to cash in on the whole Shelby craze. Admittedly, it would have made more sense if they'd included the AC Ace instead, but what motorhead wants that?

There's no need for a turbo Eagle... just go into the used car lot and buy an Eclipse. :p

Go ahead, rant on... I'd like to hear what you think about the driving... even the best of games deserves to get bashed once in a while. :)
 
yeah i agree whole heartedly... why dont they have a full range of citroens from say light 15 thu the ds range to the bx? and how about a mitsu magna?
sir, it is a japanese based game as said. they grabbed what they could.

its a really good game and it'll keep me going for ages :)

but i respect your opinion. and see where you are coming from.... just one thing tho, when you start bashing the game play ( and the are problems with it), just remember that it is a game and you are not driving a new car...
I say this because i can hear a realism rant coming (but I could be wrong) :)
 
Why are you asking us these questions. Most of them probably nobody here knows the answer to.
 
!WARNING!

30th June 2005 10:35am:

Ikari San owned niky

!WARNING!
 
The Ford GT has had good reviews whenever its been driven, it was a better car than the 360 (the 430 wasn't released when th GT was) and the "entry level" jibe doesn't wash, 2 companies with entirely different agendas, one calling on its entire history for its development of a product range of about 7 cars, the other testing out the high end of the complete market, and doing a good job of it too.
I'm not personally a fan of the GT, I live a mile from a Ferrari and Maserati dealer and I've been down there a fair bit but would only choose to have a look at a GT if I happened to see one while out and about, but it's unfair to knock it based on its looks. When Ford tooled one up along with a "new" Cobra and Thunderbird, enough people liked it to suggest to Ford it was built.
 
rigdon
You're American aren't you.......
If that was directed at me, no, born and bred in Reading in Berkshire in England.(That's near London for the Yanks).
Why did you think I was American, I like cars from wherever and don't like seeing decent cars slated for no reason other than "it's bigger than the original".
 
Hiya stinkfistZ06:
Hope you don't mind me jumping in here but all the posters so far seem like they might get a kick out of this. It's a thread I started Mar 02 2005 at another forum. I've included a couple of posts which were added onto the original. PLEASE feel free to add any "Pros & Cons" you guys might come up with.

Well we've had the "GAME" for a week now in North America. ​
Here are MY "Yays" & "Nays" ...feel free to add your own or tell me I'm Crazy! (It's NOT like I haven't heard it before!) :lol:

👍 OUTSTANDING GRAPHICS & PHYSICS
👎 "Screen Shake" ( I had one race at LSR where it shook 75% of the Race!) :irked:

👍 FANTASTIC New Tracks Especially LeSarthe, El Capitan, Infenion, Costa di Amalfi etc.
👎 NOT "ALL PREVIOUS Tracks" as promised. :irked:

👍 FANTASTIC New Rides Especially the LMP Racers :bowdown:
👎 NOT "ALL PREVIOUS Rides" as promised.
(Plus it seems the ones we'll want most can NOT be Won!) :irked:

👍 FANTASTIC New Rallye Cars :eek:
👎 But they might have "Updated" the Old ones!
The Liveries are quite "Dated" & a few lines of Code (Possible ONE Line) would have made the XSARA AWD like it SHOULD BE! :irked:

👍 DFPro Does NOT Glitch (Well it SHOULDN'T! As the wheel was designed for THIS Game! )
(I DID have the Brakes hang "ON" for a bit but that seems to have gone away now.)
"Feedback" is about 1/2 of what it was for GT3 & Prologue :irked::trouble: :grumpy:

👍 "GENERALLY" Better Engine Sounds
👎 "Pathetic" sound from a '69 Camaro SS I bought.
One of PD's Staff even OWNS ONE & they couldn't get it right!
It sounds like my neighbor kid's stock Eclipse w/"Ash Can" Muffler! :irked:

👍 LOTS of "Prize Cars"
👎 Too bad so many of them are "Worthless." Lets face it...this is a RACING GAME! :irked:
(It's hard to get excited over a series when you KNOW the reward will be a Volvo Wagon!) :banghead:

👍 LOTS of "Races"
👎 To BAD So Many require you to BUY the Same "POS" you'll WIN!
(ie VITZ/YARIS & Sport Truck!) :irked:

👍 100% Completion???
👎 Do NOT think I'll be overly concerned with this Version. Too many "One Make" races that offer Little or NO Challenge!

👍 The ZONDAs are still in the Game!
👎 They're STILL available ONLY in Silver! :irked: IMHO "Sports Cars" should be PRIMARY, NON-Metallic Colours!

👍 LOTS of New Wheels
👎 Too BAD they can't be fitted to most "Race Cars!" :irked:

👍 Being 40+% of the way thru the Game!
👎 And NOT having driven a "Skyline" an "Evo" or a "Miata" of any kind!

Hold On! That's not a 👎..that's 👍 👍 👍

IMHO "KY" is trying to be too many things to too many people. I mean 1 Horsepower Cars are fine for a "Museum" function...but as "Prize Cars" they suk big time! :irked: "Photomode"? who needs it? I haven't even explored it yet & most likely NEVER will. B-Spec is a MAJOR disappointment so far...& the list goes on. :grumpy:

That's all I can think of at the moment...O.G. :D
 
Major, major, disappointment for me has to be the appalling A.I of the computer racers. The way they stick to their lines like glue, slam into you instead of trying to avoid a collision etc. I'd go on, but whats the point?
 
niky
One word. Car availability. They put in anything they could get their hands on... and, wait... they're a Japanese programming team, so what can they get their hands on most easily? Japanese cars....

I remember reading an article or seeing a segment, on the games development, were PD had sort of an "open call" to people who had various cars to be placed in the game. At the track, there was a mish-mash of different cars from different eras, and PD was doing various testing, taking pictures, recording exhaust sounds (which I was also expecting to be more accurate for most of the cars), etc...

I'm assuming the track was in Japan based on the signs in the background. So as suggested before, I guess that's partially why the cars that are in the game are in the game. I can't see there being too many examples of 70's American Muscle cars tearing up Osaka at $5-$6 gallon.
 
I agree that the AI can be a little slow, but i just pick a slower car on a tighter track, so its more about the conering than the top speed.

For me it has all the cars u will ever need, coz im not a fan of american cars (saleen S7 being the exception, oh an the Ford GT and maybe the Dodge :rolleyes: ).

Aston Martin :bowdown:

And all the P1 cars (pescarolo etc)
 
stinkfistZ06 -

I think youve got some good points here - even although i love Japanese cars more than anything in the world they arent my only desire and it was really off putting that there was so little else - and i would like to know this, if PD is so Japan biased why is their an gt40 on the cover?? maybe their not biased but it sure as hell looks that way

Sometimes i think of it in a different way, because the game is developed in japan, they obviously can test more japanese cars and can spend more time on the japanese cars than other ones from around the globe, they want to make the game as realistic as possible - so i dont think they wud just put in a car to keep someone happy rather than thourough testing and development to keep the game realistic.

Barry
 
stinkfistZ06
Why is the Ford GT the cover car? I love American cars as you ve surely noticed, but i really have no real respect for the car. It was more of a market tool than any type of 'supercar' developed for FoMoCo's centennial, that means 100 years for you slow ones. If they were gonna base a car on such a great race car, though we all know the mark IV was by far faster, it should emulate it or msybe update it in someways. No they designed the car to look exactly like the GT40 except for a massive size gain, most notably the height no longer 40 inches for what the GT40 was named. then they jsut strap a supercharger on a 4 valved truck motor and off it goes, in stark contrast to where a 'high winding' N/A v8 inspired by the race cars power plant- a worked 5.0 cammer would ve been great. When the developers try to make it into a race car it just looks ridiculous, especially racing real cars like the pescy/judd and Bentley. Apparently they didnt no Le Mans winning designs have changed quite a bit in 35-40 years. It would seem weird though to race a car that won Le Mans outright 4 years in a row to race with GT cars. through all this ive concluded Ford relies too heavily on both retro designs and power adders.
sidenote-Ferraris 'entry level model' the F430 spanks Fords 'supercar' the GT

Don't judge the Ford GT by how it performs in this game. In RL it is one hell of a great car by all accounts - at least according to the automotive mags. One of them (can't remember which) compared it to a Ferrari and a Porsche - each of which cost more than triple what the Ford GT costs, and the Ford was only the tiniest amount less capable than either of them - and that's without the fancy stability control crud that the other two had. Also, don't knock big strong american engines. Yeah, I too have no faith in modern american vehicles, but one thing (maybe the only thing) they can still do right is make strong engines with gobs of torque.
 
My problem with Ford is that they can't even come up with new designs for there cars (05'mustang is the big one). I gave it a little slack when it comes to the GT because they're bringing it back not trying to make a new one.
 
Zardoz
All true, Stink. I agree.

I posted this here a while back, but apparently it got deleted:

http://www.granturismobynumbers.com/ubb/Forum46/HTML/000187.html


I know exactly what your talking about. In GT4, its like Japanese cars galore. I'm just upset that different non Japanese car manufacturers only have a handful of cars. The used car showrooms are a perfect example of this. Every time I see a ton of Japanese cars, and I see like 1 Vovlo or a TVR.

In GT3, it was always the R390,787B, or the GT1 as the DOMINANT cars,(In GT3 jus try using a non Japanese race car to race against them they will own you, unless you have like 1000 hp) and guess what? They are all Japanese. Im not bias towards Japanese. cars, but this is Gran Turismo, and shouldnt it mean MANY cars from diff. countries? or just one?

One thing I hate in GT4 is that I see like 500 skylines. Instead of that, replace them with more NON Japanese cars or something.The Swedish, Spanish and Belgian ( I know theres more) car dealers offer like 1 or 2 cars. Another thing, is the Black LMP cars. hmmm why are they all japanese? No black R8? Bentley? XJR9? or C9? hmm I wonder why. The real life Tracks... there is like 3 NON Japanese race circuits. The rest, well, all Japanese. The non-Japanese La Sarthe track alone is superior to all the other tracks alone. The Corvette C5r was a right click copy and paste definitely.

What is up with the '69 GT40 in the 24hr le sarthe enduro? This car just spins out in this track as if the road was ice. This car won the 24 hr Lemans 4 times in a row, a feat that no Japanese. car has ever accomplished. To see this car perform so poorly in the enduro 24hr leman race in GT4, and to race against a XJr9 or an 88c-v, etc. doesnt make sense.

Like I said, GT4 is a great game but there are many downsides to it.
 
Really the AI doesn't suck that much, it only needs to "learn" how early you can step on the gas, coming out of a corner, and where the limit is of braking, and shooting out of a corner, instead of braking 2 miles before the actual corner lol:p And WHEN stepping on the gas, JUST HIT IT, instead of gently pushing it to NOT-full throttle!
 
I'm a huge Corvette activist. I especially love the C4 and C5 models. But to say they aren't portrayed justly in the GT Series is an understatement, well... except for maybe GT3 as the Z06 was just completely sluggish.

If memory serves me right, the '95 ZR1 is one of the best sportscars money can buy in GT2. With a mere 405hp it hit a very respectable 185mph+ at the test course. It also did a low 13 to mid 12 second 1/4 mile, very realistic to what the ZR1 did in real life. It also handled like a dream.

The GT4 '00 Z06 (which I know doesn't actually exsist) is also portrayed accurately as I tested it myself. In fact, it proved to be a little better than stock in all performance aspecs.

The GT3 Z06 is the one I have beef about. That particular Z06 was ****ty!
But I think overall American cars were rendered accurately.
 
hmmm i got a lot better feedback than i expected
i didnt think so many people would look through my entire post
i had thought about these facts for a few days until i got so mad last night after getting beat by the Panoz GTR 3 races in a row, what a joke. i just had to tear into some of the bad points, it made me feel a little better

Ive understood that this is a japanese developed game and it has easily shown that. B ut if they are going to try to include all these different types of cars do it right or why even bother. I dont get why they need 50+ differnet ultra subcompacts no matter what country they are from. And the developers also claimed that the cars included would make up an automotive encyclopedia from all different years and countries. Thats where i think they have the right to be criticized as they made oddc choices for some and left out various other notable autos.

after i wrote it i forgot that i hadnt made fun of the entire skyline and evo lines they include in the game, but you guys already got to it. Midnight purple special color is a completely different model? they all have the same power-276 (310 hp anyway) so it seems ridiclous to include all of them.

Ok, i dont hate the Ford GT on its own, but the way people make it out to be the ultimate supercar is misguided and Ford went about the program and execution all wrong.
 
haha man that's totally a holier than thou troll yet again coming to spout of about how wrong pd is and how blindingly easy it would've been to do this instead of that and man in my day our racers were arcade style and we liked it gosh durnit sippin on gin and juice.

why does everyone think their opinion is so unique and awesome and snowflake like that it must be told for everyone because no one has ever had this thought before or at least had it like I do so i must go and tell everyone and definitely never use search to see if anyone else has ever complained like this because that would take away from the ego boost i get from posting this and the ensuing turmoil that follows. i am an evil smurf!
 
Maybe the Ford GT is on the cover (even though the concept), b/c KY had recently bought one?

BTW, that particular Panoz may not have won a lot of races, but the Panoz cars themselves have won quite some races in the FIA GT.
 
PD was clearly rushed into production. The made a deadline that could not be reached, and with all the fans, they had to add the finishing touches on the game and send it out. If they put everything they said they was going to put in we would still be waiting. They were just thinking about getting this game out as quick as possible to us without any major bugs in the system. I say quit complaining and deal with it. How long would you have waited for this game to be released? Do you think you could have waited for another year, or when the PS3 came out the same time?
 
lol... I think so many people are frustrated at GT4 because we got spoiled by GT3 and came out expecting the same level of quality on each and every new feature (regardless of the fact the the guys at PD had nowhere near the time necessary to do it).

Our expectations were so high and we wanted it so quick that GT4 now has (a) some excellent features, (b) some excellent ideas done really badly, and (c) some bad ideas that I hope to never see again. I don't mention details because they have been talked about at-nauseum in the forums.

I am sure (or at least hope) that by now the guys at PD have heard all the praise and all the complaints. If they pay close attention and take their time to do GT5 right, we could have another HUGE step forward (like GT3 was compared to GT2). If they don't it could mean the beginning of the end for GT and somebody else will take their place.

Only time will tell. My hope is for an absolutely mind-boggling release in 2007, including at a minimum: a realistic AI with collision-avoidance, a better thought out damage/penalty system, clutch support (for the next generation of wheels), a cleaner menu system (the current one makes it too hard to find/choose the "next race"), and maybe a set of comprehensive online documentation and tutorials about driving, upgrading, tuning, etc.
 
Ikari_San
Dude, it's just a game.

i laughed so hard when i read all of the first post, then that

hes does have some good points and even though i wish they would fix some or all of these issues, i also gotta rememebr its a japanese game, so the primary focus is gonna be to the japanese market and once they develop for them, they think to us second so i dont blame PD for their odd desicions with the US car selection.

Plus maby there where some licenseing issues with some of the U.S. manufacturers, only letting PD use certain car and not others. always gotta keep that in mind.
 
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