Jalopnik article discussing future of GT and eSports racing

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Wow. That article is quite the revelation. Several WTF moments.
Bentley was handed a Thrustmaster T-GT, a high-end sim racing steering wheel, as a prize.

“I was thrilled with this and you can see that on camera,” Bentley said.

​

“As soon as the camera stops rolling and we step off the podium, the box is instantly taken off me,” Bentley told Jalopnik in a group-chat interview. “I’m told, ‘actually, that prize goes to the influencer.’”
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I mean, wow. No money, and wheel prizes just for the cameras.

Paid in exposure for using their likeness and names in GT7. Cheapskates at Sony.
 
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That is ****ed. No money and the wheel being taken away. It’s not like Polyphony is an indie company, they’re funded by a multi-million dollar subsidiary of Sony. I get it if they can’t pay out half a million+ for every event, but still, they could still pay the competitors $50-100k somewhere down the line. If not for every event then at least for the finals.

Sponsors - easy fix if Sony/PD are worried about inappropriate or adult (gambling) sponsors, “verify” the sponsor beforehand for each driver. Would take a while but it’d allow the competitors to get an income.

This needs more attention. I hope this gets picked up by other outlets - someone at Sony/PD needs to be held to rights for not paying competitors and taking the wheel away. I get that’s not a monetary thing, but it still feels like an asshole thing to do. Just have two wheels if you wanna give the influencer a wheel, as well.
 
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May sound harsh. But the less spent on lavish events the better. They cater for a fraction of a percent of online players. Nevermind the overall playerbase.

Put resources into more engaging Sport mode events that give regular players a decent reward. IE the recent Time Trial addition has been popular and gives you a credit incentive to chip away at your best time.

These World Series events. Yeah, I’d never get remotely close to qualifying. So don’t even enter. By all means give finalists a nice fly away event and respectful prize pool/incentives.

With all that said. I expect Sony/PD to pump ever more resources into esports. They’ve made multiple purchases to develop their presence. One this week in fact.
 
Any opinion I'll have will not be nearly as relevant as the people who its actually affected by.

Right now, it's somewhere between not caring and not having enough information to go on.

So two things:
1) I thought the teams were responsible for paying players salaries. Is that not the case here?
2) Were they aware of what the prizes were before entering? I couldn't imagine spending ~50 hours a week practicing not knowing where it will lead. A camera/watch for all of that is a joke.

Feel free to roast Sony/PD or whatever on anything else. I'll be eating popcorn.
 
Sadly doesn't surprise me, Sony have track record of treating individuals like ****. Been similar tales of popstars and the like being treated surprisingly badly by Sony. Although assume music is another setup compared to gaming, but maybe they all follow same ****ty ethos towards individuals across the brands. Almost nickel and diming seemingly unessecarily where possible as builds up across functions, as no doubt bean counters have worked out.

Perhaps don't do it all the time and no doubt other mega corps do similar, but seems odd in gtand scheme of things, given value/stature of the company. Aware of their stature and that many others willing take peoples places should people get upset and not satisfied with their moment in the sun.
 
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Was surprised to read the wheel was taken away after the photos were taken. Why host these events if there are no rewards and opportunities post competing to motivate players?
 
A_Higher_Place
Was surprised to read the wheel was taken away after the photos were taken. Why host these events if there are no rewards and opportunities post competing to motivate players?
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All World Finalists recieved a T-GT wheel. I believe the event in question was one of the celeb races.
 
Nathan88
May sound harsh. But the less spent on lavish events the better. They cater for a fraction of a percent of online players. Nevermind the overall playerbase.
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Advertising is the largest component of a budget. Always has been, always will be. It doesn't matter what you are selling, the ad spend is #1.
Nathan88
Put resources into more engaging Sport mode events that give regular players a decent reward. IE the recent Time Trial addition has been popular and gives you a credit incentive to chip away at your best time.
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These are trivial tasks that, frankly, can be handled in a python script. The resources that advertise a game and encourage players to buy in are not the same as those that script single player.
Nathan88
These World Series events. Yeah, I’d never get remotely close to qualifying. So don’t even enter.
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This literally describes every sport. 99% of the people that love a sport can't play it for crap. The other 1% has a staggeringly steep climb from the worst to the best.
Nathan88
With all that said. I expect Sony/PD to pump ever more resources into esports. They’ve made multiple purchases to develop their presence. One this week in fact.
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Well, they didn't "pump ever more resources" into this game.
 
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Sounds like Sony are greedy and stingy, more interested in promoting and earning for themselves.

But it also smacks of an opportunity to me. With no official carrot to attract the best drivers, then there is scope for an independent esports organiser to run a GT championship, earning money from viewing figures (on like youtube or twitch) with their own sponsorship amd advert freedom. Competitors would also be free to do their own thing with their own sponsorship.
 
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Voodoovaj
Well, they didn't "pump ever more resources" into this game.
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We haven’t had in-person events for the best part of 2 years for obvious reasons. Those are still likely to be the biggest factor in not having a more comprehensive live event calendar. It’s no different in the world of real motorsport. Many series are only now looking to ramp up events.

Given Sony have spent tens of millions acquiring esports ventures. Stating esports is one of their core goals going forward. Yeah, I think GT World Series events will only get bigger and more extravagant.
 
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I just read (most of) the article before coming here. I’ve never been interested in esports at all, so not exactly familiar with details on how they work exactly. My thoughts though, definitely sketchy stuff on Sony/PD part, but I can’t help but wonder why none of these drivers verified or signed anything on what they were getting into beforehand?
Why would you expect any amount of money or prizes if you didn’t sign any type of agreement covering that beforehand? From what I read it seems like they had no idea what they were really getting into and had expectations that weren’t guaranteed to be met or even agreed to officially by either side. I wouldn’t join a league or sport etc. and expect anything if I wasn’t first given a stack of papers (or DocuSign file) describing and outlining how things work so that both parties are in agreement are held accountable. If they did, and Sony/PD then went back on their word and took away prizes they were obligated to give, then they (drivers) have every right to take them to court over it and would certainly win if there is anything in writing. If they (drivers) misunderstood or didn’t know what they were agreeing to then that’s on them agreeing to stuff before understanding it. I‘d put this one in the “lessons learned” column if I were them.

Having said that, definitely ****** of Sony/PD to not make anything official or clearly define terms on any of this stuff for drivers like they should have beforehand. It sounds like there was a bunch of verbal commitments or comments but never anything made official or legally binding which should have been and they pulled a fast one on the drivers, but nothing illegal, just shameful. I could see it being misleading if they were putting them up in 5 star hotels and paying for all their travel expenses…you would assume you’d be getting awesome prizes and payouts because it appeared well funded, but again, never assume that type of stuff, always make sure you’re signing official and binding agreements first and never expect anything above and beyond or outside of that which was agreed to in writing.
 
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BangsMcCoy
Why would you expect any amount of money or prizes if you didn’t sign any type of agreement covering that beforehand?
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BangsMcCoy
Having said that, definitely ****** of Sony/PD to not make anything official or clearly define terms on any of this stuff for drivers like they should have beforehand.
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The rules are published in full before each season, including all of the prizes. There has never been a mention of any monetary prize, and everyone ought to be well aware of it - because you have to agree to the rules before you take part.

Although as I say this I can't find the 2022 rules online...
 
Famine
The rules are published in full before each season, including all of the prizes. There has never been a mention of any monetary prize, and everyone ought to be well aware of it - because you have to agree to the rules before you take part.

Although as I say this I can't find the 2022 rules online...
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You can only see them during registration. I tried to record it, but it seems that the game no longer allows video recording (but screenshots are OK) of web pages. (The GR GT Cup registration page also cannot be viewed with Remote Play too, for instance.)

It might be somewhere in an unindexed page within GT website, meant only to be viewed from the console because of the existence of the agreement buttons.
 
The travel and hotels stuff is probably great for young guys (has there ever been a female finalist?) but I guess having reached the top they start looking sideways and see prizes in other esports and start getting antsy.
I’m kinda more with Sony and PD on this if the ‘prizes’ (or lack of them) were clear beforehand.
Even as an avid GT player it’s easy to ignore all this stuff, so it’s definitely a minority pursuit. And I very much doubt it’s worth much in terms of advertising for that very reason: more people will start playing GT if they experience it on friends or relatives’ consoles than would ever decide to buy it based on some esports championship. I’d bet almost all the people interested in the esports are already playing the game. Better for PD just to make a better game.

One thing: giving wheels as prizes seems weird, don’t the top players already have them?

Another thing: I dig that Klingon look Solis has got going. Never noticed it in game but just seen it in the article. Cool.
 
An interesting read! I'm gathering from it that it isn't necessarily that the players don't know what they're getting into when they sign up, it's that they were expecting it to be developed further by now and it hasn't. This tells me that Sony/PD don't seem to value input and feedback from these players as much as they should, which is also quite telling of why GT7 released unfinished in my opinion.

If the series doesn't pivot it's reward concept soon, especially now that the FIA name is lost, this could end in the next couple years.
 
Nagaremono
I’m kinda more with Sony and PD on this if the ‘prizes’ (or lack of them) were clear beforehand.
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It is in the T&C (2019 EMEA linked, but it's the same for all years), although I felt most of them just scrolled off/overlooked that part.

(That being said, is there anyone who could get the URL for the GTWS T&C page? It's too late now since it's the off-season, though.)
 
Nagaremono
The travel and hotels stuff is probably great for young guys (has there ever been a female finalist?)
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Yeah, though it's certainly not a common occurrence.

www.gtplanet.net

Emily Jones: Talking to Gran Turismo's First Female FIA Finalist

2020 will bring a significant first in Gran Turismo Sport's Online Championship history: a female finalist. 27-year old Emily Jones, from Melbourne, Australia, will become the first ever female driver to represent their nation at a regional final, but also their manufacturer in the World Final in De
www.gtplanet.net www.gtplanet.net
 
Canucks_9419
An interesting read! I'm gathering from it that it isn't necessarily that the players don't know what they're getting into when they sign up, it's that they were expecting it to be developed further by now and it hasn't. This tells me that Sony/PD don't seem to value input and feedback from these players as much as they should, which is also quite telling of why GT7 released unfinished in my opinion.

If the series doesn't pivot it's reward concept soon, especially now that the FIA name is lost, this could end in the next couple years.
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Exactly. They're not saying they thought they would get $ prize, or that the prizes weren't clear beforehand. They're just saying they would have preferred that and had more motivation had it been that, or a clear path into sustainable eSports.

The best also received rewards from Gran Turismo brand partners, like TAG Heuer watches and BBS wheels.
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Speaking with a number of those competitors, most seem to agree: They would have rather earned some money, or gotten support that might allow them to turn their passion into a career.
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As it is, the GT eSports has not progressed in 5 years at all. The prizes have now diminished if anything since the FIA are no longer involved. There is no pathway to something bigger, and viewer figures have only gone downwards. It's gone backwards if anything.

Like the game itself, there is no clear vision of the future of GT eSports.
 
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Samus
Exactly. They're not saying they thought they would get $ prize, or that the prizes weren't clear beforehand. They're just saying they would have preferred that and had more motivation had it been that, or a clear path into sustainable eSports.



As it is, the GT eSports has not progressed in 5 years at all. The prizes have now diminished if anything since the FIA are no longer involved. There is no pathway to something bigger, and viewer figures have only gone downwards. It's gone backwards if anything.

Like the game itself, there is no clear vision of the future of GT eSports.
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I agree with all this, but perhaps PD/Sony want ‘churn’, new fresh faces coming through all the time, with amateur players being on top for a year or two then moving on, rather than it becoming an established and entrenched professional class of just a few of the same drivers dominating for year after year?


Also, I’d guess PD isn’t that fussed about the FIA (more of a money-grabbing organisation than Sony perhaps) but is happy to serve Toyota and the other manufacturers with their manufacturer series events. Surely Toyota et al pay PD for that kind of exposure/advertising in some way.
 
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Nagaremono
I agree with all this, but perhaps PD/Sony want ‘churn’, new fresh faces coming through all the time, with amateur players being on top for a year or two then moving on, rather than it becoming an established and entrenched professional class of just a few of the same drivers dominating for year after year?
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Coincidentally the Round 1 of 2021/2022 FIAGTC/GTWS are played only with last year's World Finalists, although the Showdown is basically that.

Nagaremono
Also, I’d guess PD isn’t that fussed about the FIA (more of a money-grabbing organisation than Sony perhaps) but is happy to serve Toyota and the other manufacturers with their manufacturer series events. Surely Toyota et al pay PD for that kind of exposure/advertising in some way.
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I think you can say this for the other two manufacturers. (There's also concerns with myself that too many partners manufacturers may allow PD to manipulate the outcome of the race in their favor.)

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There's also the silent elephant in the room: harassment/personal conduct (either between players, player-to-non player, or staff-to-player). I wonder if any of the FIAGTC/GTWS players have dealt with personal conduct-related issues, considering it is a major issue in esports right now. (The 2019 FIAGTC terms has none of that, but I thought Sony/PD could kick out a player at their discretion for that.)
 
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Hmm, well monetary prizes aren’t mentioned but I still think they should get paid. Every other eSport at the highest level pays their competitors (as far as I know), why not GT? Surely they can afford it. Watches and wheels are nice but you can’t live off them (well, you can sell them, but you shouldn’t have to). These people should be able to sustain themselves off of their skills.
 
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What I think is more scandalous is that they included their likeness in GT7 and paid them nothing. All the profit they're making off this game and they can't pay the talking heads that are all over it? Sure, they didn't record any voiceovers or anything but that's still your image, you're still worth something.

Kinda surprised so many of them signed up for that deal really. I wouldn't. Why appear in a multi-million dollar game for "exposure", what exposure is a video game driver going to get from that? Not like Toyota are going to call them up to drive in their LMP1 program based on it, are they.
 
Samus
What I think is more scandalous is that they included their likeness in GT7 and paid them nothing. All the profit they're making off this game and they can't pay the talking heads that are all over it? Sure, they didn't record any voiceovers or anything but that's still your image, you're still worth something.

Kinda surprised so many of them signed up for that deal really. I wouldn't. Why appear in a multi-million dollar game for "exposure", what exposure is a video game driver going to get from that? Not like Toyota are going to call them up to drive in their LMP1 program based on it, are they.
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Yep. It’s weird. Exposure. All of them must’ve agreed to it. Is there any prominent player not appearing in the game?

Edit: would be interesting to know if any of the non-drivers (Sony employees?) like Sarah, Luca and the gang got paid anything.
 
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