Jules Bianchi passes away following accident at 2014 Formula 1 Japanese Grand Prix

[Liquid]

Maybe it's just me, but the whole concept of driver's, who willingly participate in a dangerous sport, have the nerve to sue someone when things go wrong doesn't sit well with me. Sueing culture period pisses me off

It's very important to remember that the driver isn't the one suing. And I'm not saying that just to be deliberate or obtuse; it goes without saying that Bianchi is, sadly, dead. But this is the driver's family suing "on his behalf", so to speak. It's a very different scenario with a very different goal.

 

[Touring Mars]

My first reaction was one of disappointment, though I can understand why Jules Bianchi's family want some answers - but a law suit? That just seems, well, odd. But the lawyer's comment below really doesn't sit well with me at all...

accept that errors were made in the planning, timing, organisation and conduct of the race which took place in dangerous conditions during the typhoon season in Japan.

Seriously? Are they seriously suggesting that planning a race in a location where heavy rain is possible is tantamount to playing Russian roulette with the lives of those who willingly participate in these races? Frankly, this comment alone makes me wonder just what they are hoping to achieve with this, and it leaves a very bad taste in the mouth.

 

[daan]

"Jules Bianchi's death was avoidable," said lawyer Julian Chamberlayne.

Yep, he could have slowed down. As Martin Brundle is so fond of saying, the accelerator goes both ways.

 

[RACECAR]

My problem is that they are going after the team, who weren't part of the "planning, timing, organization and conduct of the race" as the lawyer claims. Sadly comes off the exact same way as the case with that family of that deceased short track driver: He's here for himself and the pay, not for the Family.

 

[R5]

Ok, so I think it goes without saying that what happened was tragic, but this is exactly like the Paul Walker incident and that just stinks.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

driver's, who willingly participate in a dangerous sport, have the nerve to sue someone when things go wrong doesn't sit well with me

The idea behind the case is that while motorsport is dangerous, the authorities have a responsibility to minimise that danger where possible. No doubt the central argument will be in the way a tractor was allowed into the circuit confines and the way the danger was managed. After all, the tractor was positioned in a place where a car had previously gone off; given the conditions, another car going off in the same place in the same manner was a forseeable event.

this is exactly like the Paul Walker incident and that just stinks

Except that Walker and his friend were being irresponsible, driving over the speed limit in a car that apparently had not been serviced properly.

 

[Dennisch]

Except that Walker and his friend were being irresponsible,

Ehm.

So was Jules. He was the one who didn't slow down despite all the yellow being shown.

 

[R5]

Except that Walker and his friend were being irresponsible, driving over the speed limit in a car that apparently had not been serviced properly.

I was thinking more the fact that the grieving family are taking legal action against innocent parties in both cases, but sure.

 

[twitcher]

The idea behind the case is that while motorsport is dangerous, the authorities have a responsibility to minimise that danger where possible. No doubt the central argument will be in the way a tractor was allowed into the circuit confines and the way the danger was managed. After all, the tractor was positioned in a place where a car had previously gone off; given the conditions, another car going off in the same place in the same manner was a forseeable event.


Except that Walker and his friend were being irresponsible, driving over the speed limit in a car that apparently had not been serviced properly.

Couldn't an arguement be made that Jules was "speeding" under yellow? Especially given the conditions?

I've also heard that the telemetry and "black box" info regarding Jules's crash has not been made public yet, and there is speculation that he may have been fiddling with buttons on the wheel just prior to the crash....purely speculative, but seems a reasonable question to ask.

The other thing I don't really understand is that yes, it is the official's job to make things as safe as possible....but just like Prost in Adelaide, the driver always has a choice to not participate.

I totally understand a family's desire to get answers, but it's really hard to not see this Bianchi situation a the family trying to recoup some of the money he may have potentially made in F1 had he not died.

 

[TheElbows]

I think what we need to remember is that a law suit is almost never intended to succeed. This is a huge sport/entity with loads of potential income. The goal here is hoping that the parties involved with settle to keep it quiet and carry on. That's worth a couple million alone.

Sad.

 

[TenEightyOne]

My problem is that they are going after the team, who weren't part of the "planning, timing, organization and conduct of the race" as the lawyer claims.

No, but, as I've said previously, both drivers were killed when the "fail-safe" on the car failed. Since the Massa/Hungary incident the two-pedal-push cutout has been mandatory in all F1 cars. It didn't work.

The contributory element of that has to be considered, at least.

I think what we need to remember is that a law suit is almost never intended to succeed. This is a huge sport/entity with loads of potential income.

So far there's been no talk of money in this case, it seems to be about a proper assumption of responsibility.

 

[TheElbows]

That would be brilliant. I highly doubt it.

 

[mustafur]

Ehm.

So was Jules. He was the one who didn't slow down despite all the yellow being shown.

Double yellows basically means near race pace.

I'm not against the law suit however I disagree with naming the team on the case.

 

[Eva]

There wasn't a defined speed then for double waved yellows, which will be used as a defense. And as mustafur said, that doesn't even fall on the team.

 

[Cole Brown]

Why did the family take this long before taking action?

Besides obvious grieving, statute of limitations was going to be at their door step soon.

 

[Barra333]

Gary Hartstein with his 0.02. The comments at the bottom are worth reading too.

 

[Liquid]

Double yellows basically means near race pace.

No it doesn't. Double waved yellows means "slow down considerably, be prepared to stop or take avoiding action".

It, as well as single waved yellows, have been constantly ignored or disregarded for years. Mika Häkkinen was frequently guilty of the "I'll keep my foot to the floor but raise my hand in acknowledgement" method and got away with it.

People's lives are in danger under yellows and especially under double waved yellows on a wet track.

There's a precedence for this, too. I refer again to the Morbidelli/Brundle incident of 1994 which took place at the same section of the track. Brundle came so close to hitting Morbidelli's stranded car and the truck dragging it away. Fortunately, he 'only' hit a marshall, breaking the man's leg.



It's a miracle that there wasn't another death in the black tragedy that was the 1994 season.

 

[mustafur]

It can say what it wants but in reality it means near race pace and did the time it operated.

It's racing what do you expect, they are going to go the fastest they are possibly allowed, it was a flawed situation in which the fastest that was possibly allowed was basically near race pace, and this is what they did.

A rule that forces a maximum speed is what should of been implemented and any disaster that followed from being allowed to go near race pace is in the scope of what was in those flags.

 

[Liquid]

It can say what it wants but in reality it means near race pace

Thanks to reckless drivers who ignore it and obfuscating stewards who refuse to punish it.

and did the time it operated.

Double waved yellows means slow down and be prepared to stop. Fact.

Are you being an apologist for drivers ignoring the rules?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Besides obvious grieving, statute of limitations was going to be at their door step soon.

No such thing.

Seriously? Are they seriously suggesting that planning a race in a location where heavy rain is possible is tantamount to playing Russian roulette with the lives of those who willingly participate in these races? Frankly, this comment alone makes me wonder just what they are hoping to achieve with this, and it leaves a very bad taste in the mouth.

It depends on the motive, I think. If the family are simply pushing this to a full and proper review (as per Dr. Hartstein's comments) then the case has an altruistic motive and is a good thing. If, however, the motives are about money and revenge then it's a sad, sad ending to the whole affair.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

I think what Mustafur refers to is that although the rulebook says you must slow down and be prepared to stop, but the stewards only enforce a decision if they see that a car has not slowed down enough. So a simple lift of the throttle demonstrates this, even if that equates to taking the corner just 10mph slower than normal....

The new Virtual Safety Car is exactly what was needed. It is now enforced by a maximum speed and there is no way around that to benefit your race time.

 

[daan]

After all, the tractor was positioned in a place where a car had previously gone off; given the conditions, another car going off in the same place in the same manner was a forseeable event.

But not when there are double waved yellow flags which, as you very well know, have always meant, "slow down and be prepared to stop." The fact that drivers tended to ignore yellow flags is solely the driver's decision.


The other thing in this is the panel who made the decision.

Composition of the Accident Panel

Presidency

Peter Wright, President of the Safety Commission

Members

Ross Brawn, former Team Principal of Mercedes F1 Team, Brawn Grand Prix and former Technical Director of Scuderia Ferrari

Stefano Domenicali, former Team Principal of Scuderia Ferrari

Gerd Ennser, Chief Stewards’ representative

Emerson Fittipaldi, President of the FIA Drivers’ Commission, F1 Steward

Eduardo de Freitas, WEC Race Director

Roger Peart, President of the Circuits Commission, President of the ASN of Canada, F1 Steward

Antonio Rigozzi, Advocate, Judge at the International Court of Appeal of the FIA co-opted by the teams

Gérard Saillant, President of the FIA Institute and President of the Medical Commission

Alex Wurz, President of the GPDA, drivers’ representative

I would completely trust the guys I've bolded to do the right thing and to make the correct judgement. Not to say I don't trust the others, it's just that I don't know of them.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

But not when there are double waved yellow flags which, as you very well know, have always meant, "slow down and be prepared to stop." The fact that drivers tended to ignore yellow flags is solely the driver's decision.

True, but there is the question of whether or not the race should have been run in monsoonal conditions and why the stewards placed a double yellow in that sector instead of deploying the safety car.

 

[mustafur]

Thanks to reckless drivers who ignore it and obfuscating stewards who refuse to punish it.



Double waved yellows means slow down and be prepared to stop. Fact.

Are you being an apologist for drivers ignoring the rules?

Don't blame the drivers for a poorly worded rule with no real restriction of speed apart from not setting Pb times.

If you do slow down and others don't you will be the one that suffers when you have a massive gap to the car in front when it goes green, this was allowed so to expect something else is pleading ignorance to the situation.

 

[mustafur]

I think what Mustafur refers to is that although the rulebook says you must slow down and be prepared to stop, but the stewards only enforce a decision if they see that a car has not slowed down enough. So a simple lift of the throttle demonstrates this, even if that equates to taking the corner just 10mph slower than normal....

The new Virtual Safety Car is exactly what was needed. It is now enforced by a maximum speed and there is no way around that to benefit your race time.

Exactly the rule is poor and is left to the driver what speed they feel fit, they are racing drivers in a race they are only going to do one thing which is go as fast as possible.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Exactly the rule is poor and is left to the driver what speed they feel fit

"Prepared to stop". You know what preparation is, right? Bianchi, sadly, was self-evidently not in possession of such preparations.

 

[mustafur]

"Prepared to stop". You know what preparation is, right? Bianchi, sadly, was self-evidently not in possession of such preparations.

Was any driver penalised for not preparing to stop?

It's like blaming teams for pushing the envelope of what can be designed under the regulations.

 

[shoemaker]

The main reason seems as though the family are not happy that Jules was blamed for speeding under yellow flags. They want an apology, not sure if they are seekingfinancial compensation. Several factors contibuted to, what was a freak accident. Lessons were learnt and lots of safety changes have been made as a result, I really don't know what the family hope to achieve. They are obviously struggling to come to terms with it all.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

I do see where the Bianchi family are coming from. I still see lots of things that could have been done that would have save Jules. First being a red flag. Also that big truck had nothing to do in a track where there's car running. Sometimes there's 3 debris on track and we get a red flag and sometimes it's much.more dangerous but they keep yellow and cars on track.
So I guess they want an explanation on that.

I don't think Bianchi did anything bad personnaly he did what everyone expect for a racing driver. And beside data wasn't published so people shouldnt really comment on things they dont know like he was going way too fast or other **** I've read.

Also it wasn't fix, in China there was a recovery car placed really dangerously close to the pit entrance as JB said.

 

[Smokey Nismo]

The main reason seems as though the family are not happy that Jules was blamed for speeding under yellow flags. They want an apology, not sure if they are seekingfinancial compensation. Several factors contibuted to, what was a freak accident. Lessons were learnt and lots of safety changes have been made as a result, I really don't know what the family hope to achieve. They are obviously struggling to come to terms with it all.

Don't remind me mate, I figuratively puked blood when I heard that Jules was at fault for not slowing down enough.