Just how accurate is gt4

[gibus]

One other thing. The RR's are so undrivable in this game. Take one bump, take a high speed curve and the car slides like it's on ice. I've been in quite a few RR's in real life, some driving faster than the others, but never did the car fly off the road because of a bump or turning. If the real life cars were to drive like in the game. I would have died on the autoroute for a simple turn!

 

[WatersEdge]

Yeah, I've got to agree with Niky's list, too. But from my experiences, I've got to agree with Wolfe, as well. The snap oversteer's just brutal in this game. The line between a recoverable slide and the Spin of Doom is just way too thin. Personally, I like the way that GT3 handled it. I've been in a friend of mine's 240SX (1993) when he's been sliding the thing, and snap oversteer isn't *that* unforgiving. Sure, it's a danger inherent to sliding a car, but you can usually feel it in the slide. My friend has trouble drifting in GT4 because of this. Not to say that this problem applies only to "drifting", but in drifting, it tends to manifest itself the most due to the style of driving used there.

In GT3, the cars were more...predictable, I guess...than they are in 4. Sure, in 3, you couldn't lock the brakes of the car up, or turn the wheel so far that you lost traction, but those seemed to be provisions for the player using a controller. Half an inch between driving straight and full lock would be brutal, indeed.

Another thing I wondered about regarding GT4's realism is the behavior of the TVRs on the track. Nearly all of mine tend to understeer horribly. I've got a 440-HP Tamora that should be as tail-happy as any car in the game, but when I enter a turn, I've got to nearly kill my throttle to coax the nose in. Please tell me that these cars aren't like this in real life.

Okay, I'll shut up now. I've gone on long enough.

Oh. One more thing. It's good to see North Carolinians well-represented on here, NightKid.

 

[Scaff]

Another thing I wondered about regarding GT4's realism is the behavior of the TVRs on the track. Nearly all of mine tend to understeer horribly. I've got a 440-HP Tamora that should be as tail-happy as any car in the game, but when I enter a turn, I've got to nearly kill my throttle to coax the nose in. Please tell me that these cars aren't like this in real life.

Okay, I'll shut up now. I've gone on long enough.

Oh. One more thing. It's good to see North Carolinians well-represented on here, NightKid.

I've driven a few TVRs (wedges and Griffiths) in RL and don't find that the TVRs in GT4 understeer that horriably at all.

I mainly drive my Tamora stock (so down about 90-100 bhp on yours) and on N2's (because anything better just has too much grip for comparison to a road tyre) and have little issue with understeer and no problem developing power-on oversteer out of corners.

My TVR's in the game (and I have multiple versions of each model) have no major issue with cronic understeer, unless I try and take a corner to fast, then of course understeer is going to be present. The TVRs in my experience are cars with a mild level of unersteer that leads to a very quick transfer to oversteer, the real ones are slightly easier to control, as the very long travel on the throttle allows you to modulate the power quite well.

The following is an taken from Autocars 2003 handling challenge.

...., but the TVR is a straight is best machine. The 350c felt like the racer it will soon become - punishing what we testers call exuberance, and what racers rightly call inaccuracy, with a disconcerting nervousness. In some cars you exploit the neutral state; in the 350c the battle is simply to sustain it.

Like every other recent TVR, it has a chassis set to mild understeer with very fast steering response, but the rear-end is deliberately soft and compliant to maximise traction and was always teetering on the edge of roll-oversteer. A sniff too much gas meant corrective lock. Be too shy and the front TOYOs would just plough on.

Deceptive speed was the 350's real weapon. The AJP straight six booted it out of even the fastest turn with astonishing speed (the Lambo felt no faster in a straight line), and for all the concentration required, the corner speeds were right up there.

But was it realy enjoyable? For some, yes, but for most the concentration required was just too great.

During the Autocar test the T350c managed a peak lateral g reading of 1.14, when I get a chance I will see how this compaires with GT4.

While the Autocar Best Drivers car 2002, tested the Tamora and said the following.

"Awesome power, but the handling dynamics are let down by an over-compliant rear axle, which feels disconnected from the track" - Graham Mace (Ford chassis engineer)

"If you want excitement on a track then this is it - in a nerve wracking, clench your teeth sort of way. The ground shakes as huge amounts of horsepower try to find some grip, but at least the Tamora does it better than any other TVR" - Tiff Needell.

It should always be remembered that, part from the very latest models, TVRs have always had a reputation for having more power than the chassis could actually handle.


You may find the thread I put together on how the GT series has changed in the four versions of interest, as one of the test cars was a Griffith 500.

GT4 - A comparison across the series

Regards

Scaff

 

[Wolfe]

From what I've always heard, TVRs are horribly dangerous, over-powered, tailhappy deathmachines.

So, understeer issues or not, I would think that the tail would not only be quite easy to kick out, but also easy to lose control of...

@WatersEdge: I would certainly agree that GT3 was more suited for a controller than GT4, but I think it's also important to note that this does not imply that either game is more realistic than the other. For example, Live for Speed allows almost total customization of its controls, providing either total or near-total compensation for keyboard control, or no compensation at all. Does this mean that the physics change, or become less realistic depending upon the setting used? Not at all.

 

[Dave_George]

I think GT4 is a damn good effort from all those involved in making it.

The fact that the Ring is there at all along with Lemans 1 + 2 was worth the asking price alone, considering the amount of people who race and post about GT4 i think that speaks for itself.

As to how realistic it is my own experience is with FR BMW's, i owned one a couple of years ago, to get the tail out on the roads was very hard, and also dangerous to boot....its general balance was Neutral. In GT3 using a Bmw 330 you could kick the tail out on every bend and ride the slide, was i that talented? No, not from my real life experiences!

In GT4 the new 330 is completely different, I find that it has the Neutral Bmw balance and you have to provoke oversteer just as you would in real life, and as Scaff says, N2s are really the only way to evaluate a car and realism, S tyres are just like track day tyres.

So for me GT4 is excellent, we could go on forever about how Physics are not quite right or the ring isnt bumpy enough but its still a damn good effort and has me completely and utterly hooked!!

regards

Dave

 

[PaleRider]

This counter-thing is really ruining the game. Realistic like a bad dream

 

[Verty]

What troubles me the most is the grass.... never been able to stop like that on grass before. I think it would have made a big difference when you push the car to its limit, because sometimes you get a tire on the grass just a little bit off a kerb and oops you're gone... Anyway, it should be way more slippery and I'm sure it would change gameplay a lot.

 

[Scaff]

From what I've always heard, TVRs are horribly dangerous, over-powered, tailhappy deathmachines.

So, understeer issues or not, I would think that the tail would not only be quite easy to kick out, but also easy to lose control of...

Good description of most TVRs, the real things are legendary for the level of commitment and skill needed to drive them on the limit.

To put this to the test I ran a 350c and Tamora around the Grand Valley Speedway, I'm using the same corners for lateral g calculations from the BMW Tyre Analysis post.


TVR 350c
The 350c is a bit of a nightmare around GV, as its stock gearing just does not suit the circuit. You always seem to either ride the rev limiter for a short distance before the corner or change up just before braking; not a happy choice.

One thing that is abundantly clear is just how damn fast the 350 is in a straight line, and how much of a handful it is in the corners. Get the power on too quickly as you come out of a corner and you get a slight wiff of understeer, that then rapidly turns to oversteer. To maximse corner exit speeds you need to keep the tail in check, and that means feeding the power in gently.

Don't get me wrong, it corners damn fast, but it limits your corner exit speed.

Grand Valley - 2.21:098

1st Hairpin - 56.8mph / 1.11g

2nd hairpin - 42.8mph / 1.11g

Sweeper - 75.8mph / 1.07g

The Autocar test I mentioned in a previous post recorded a peak lateral g of 1.14, the results above were achieved on N2 tyres and are damn close. The lap-time above does not reprent what the car is capable of, but its gearing just does not suit this track.


Tamora
The Tamora has a similar feel to the 350c, it just seems to have been softened slightly (remember this is TVRs user-friendly model), more understeer develops when you push hard out of a corner, still not a lot, but anything is more than you get with the 350c. It still progresses to oversteer, but in a more measured manner, which makes it easier to modulate and catch.

The Tamoras stock gear ratios are also a much, much better fit to GV, giving you one less thing to think about.

Grand Valley - 2.20:195

1st Hairpin - 56mph / 1.08g

2nd Hairpin - 39.2mph / 0.97g

Sweeper - 74.8mph / 1.04g

The overall lap time is a second quicker than the 350c, but the gearbox kills the 350c here. Another track and I think the story would be very different.

Even with this in mind the Tamora is a much easier car to drive quickly, the 350 by contrast is clearly capable of much more, but much more care is needed on the limit.

Exit a corner to quickly in the Tamora and it will understeer enough for you to read and react to. The 350c just uses the understeer as a sign that its about to try and throw the back out, and by the time you've read the message, your going sideways.


Well thats my contribution to the TVR bit.

Regards

Scaff

 

[WatersEdge]

Well, I followed your link, and read all of that thread, and the tests that you did between the GTs were pretty darn cool. Well done! The debate that happened in the thread is what really caught my attention, though.

I suppose I've got to side with Wolfe on the understeer issue. I've been messing around with the tires on GT4 (mainly on Trial Mountain) and I found something that seems to cause some...interesting results. This is just my two cents' worth, but it seems like the rear tires have too much grip in relation to the front in each of the tire sets.

I was driving my Tamora (414 HP, once I actually looked at it, not 440. Oops.) around TM and it was running into its normal understeer problems, so I decided to try something. I put N3 tires on the front, and left the rears with N2. While this took the understeer problem and turned it into an oversteer problem, it made the car react to throttle *slightly* more the way I'd expect it to. Much more tail-happy (like you'd expect) than with a matched tire set, but perhaps too much so. It's an interesting change from normal GT4 handling, at any rate. The problem with this handling setup is that the counter-steer problem rears its ugly head if you're not *really* careful with the slide recovery.

@Scaff - I had to re-do the entire transmission on my Tamora. Second gear was *way* too long for my tastes.

Here's the way I configured mine, if you're interested.
1st - 3.491
2nd - 2.379
3rd - 1.662
4th - 1.276
5th - 0.997
Final - 3.730

It tops out at about 150mph, but it'll get there so fast that it'll rip your teeth out. The gears were changed to make them a little more even.

(Off-topic) @Wolfe - I've played LFS pretty extensively. It's very good stuff. Very much still a work in progress, though. The handling of the Tamora with the mis-matched tires almost reminded me of the handling of the XR-GT Turbo.

Very interesting discussions on these forums. I'm really enjoying it here.

-WatersEdge

 

[Wolfe]

Well, I followed your link, and read all of that thread, and the tests that you did between the GTs were pretty darn cool. Well done! The debate that happened in the thread is what really caught my attention, though.

I suppose I've got to side with Wolfe on the understeer issue. I've been messing around with the tires on GT4 (mainly on Trial Mountain) and I found something that seems to cause some...interesting results. This is just my two cents' worth, but it seems like the rear tires have too much grip in relation to the front in each of the tire sets.

I was driving my Tamora (414 HP, once I actually looked at it, not 440. Oops.) around TM and it was running into its normal understeer problems, so I decided to try something. I put N3 tires on the front, and left the rears with N2. While this took the understeer problem and turned it into an oversteer problem, it made the car react to throttle *slightly* more the way I'd expect it to. Much more tail-happy (like you'd expect) than with a matched tire set, but perhaps too much so. It's an interesting change from normal GT4 handling, at any rate. The problem with this handling setup is that the counter-steer problem rears its ugly head if you're not *really* careful with the slide recovery.

@Scaff - I had to re-do the entire transmission on my Tamora. Second gear was *way* too long for my tastes.

Here's the way I configured mine, if you're interested.
1st - 3.491
2nd - 2.379
3rd - 1.662
4th - 1.276
5th - 0.997
Final - 3.730

It tops out at about 150mph, but it'll get there so fast that it'll rip your teeth out. The gears were changed to make them a little more even.

(Off-topic) @Wolfe - I've played LFS pretty extensively. It's very good stuff. Very much still a work in progress, though. The handling of the Tamora with the mis-matched tires almost reminded me of the handling of the XR-GT Turbo.

Very interesting discussions on these forums. I'm really enjoying it here.

-WatersEdge

The discussion in the GT Series Comparison thread was a very good one, indeed... Maybe this thread will evolve into something just as thorough...

Anyway, you talk about the XR-GTT handling like a TVR...that sounds more like S1 than S2...have you gotten a chance to try S2, yet?

 

[WatersEdge]

Anyway, you talk about the XR-GTT handling like a TVR...that sounds more like S1 than S2...have you gotten a chance to try S2, yet?

Yeah, I have, although most of the driving I've done in the GTT was in S1. I have tried it, and it is a bit better, but the FR cars still feel a bit slippery on the lateral axis. Braking and accelerating is just fine, but when you start sliding, you don't stop until you hit 0 mph in some cases. The FF's suffer from this problem, too, just to an infinitely lesser degree. I guess a good comparison would be GT's Caterham against the LX4. Stable (Fireblade) vs. suicidal (LX4 and LX6). I love the look of the LX's, but they're just really hard to control, even with a DFP.

Ok. Enough off-topic stuff from me. Any thoughts on the mis-matched tire handling with the FR's in GT? I know it inverts the oversteer-understeer thing, but does it give you an idea of what the problem with understeer might be?

-WatersEdge

 

[WatersEdge]

A friend and I have been testing this idea with the different tires sets, and the problem seems to be that the rear tires have far too much lateral traction. That's what forces the drifters to mismatch their tire sets. (After I posted the above message, I checked the Drifting forum, and apparently, this is a fairly common practice.) It seems like this problem would explain both the understeer problem and the drifting difficulties people have been having with matched tire sets. It would also explain the wicked snap oversteer. If a tire with too much lateral grip loses grip and suddenly regains it, it's going to throw the car's tail in the other direction with too much force, isn't it? Am I wrong about all of this? What do you guys think?

 

[jamaican]

oh yess... oversteer from trying to countersteer happens just like in GT4, i found out the hard way with my mom's vitara this summer while in jamaica

i tried everything with the vitara and it happens just like in GT4, even when i'm not in the vitara and in a car **** happens. i late braked into a corner by ACCIDENT and the back of the car came flying around, luckily with some experience i corrected and went around the corner safely along with the eerrrkkkkkss from the tires . and sometimes when i step in the vitara's pedal too hard i feel the rear trying to swing around, and whenever i try to countersteer it, it just gets worse

i'm not really a bad driver i just like to find out how a car performs so that i can kno wat to do and wat not to do, but i must say, the driving physics in GT4 are pretty close to reality

 

[niky]

Actually, we've theorised it's a case of too little front grip dialled in, as a last minute fix to the game engine to insert understeer.

 

[Gabkicks]

that explains how donuts are impossible.

 

[Pupik]

The one thing GT has always had a hard time simulating is a sence of speed and inertia.

The scenery doesn't blur to any considerable effect, and you get no feeling of accleration, deceleration, or cornering, of course. One day, you will probably install a proper chair the tilts and moves about as you move the car, and it will be built right into the physics of the game; but for now, it's not cheap. Accelerating in a real car (let's say something with over 75hp) gives you more feeling than any race car will in GT4. Cornering at 30mph in real-life is much more of a sensation compared to any car you'll ever play in a video game (as this post is typed, that is.)

I feel the "wet tracks" of GT3 and GT4 aren't accurate, if there's any obvious flaw in the game. GT seems puts more emphasis in understeer, rather than oversteer, when driving hard on wet pavement. Since it rains on average of every 3rd day in Florida, I can vouch that the braking distances are well re-created, but the cornering ability seems like you're driving a truck on a gravel road.

I can't comment on the snow/ice tracks, naturally. They are the magic combination of very fun and very frustrating at the same time. I suppose that depends on whether you're in 1st or 2nd place.

However, simulating the overall feel of some of these cars in the game is quite accurate: I've tested all the Lexuses in the game, and compared to the real-life counter parts, they are fairly good examples. They react just about how I expect them to react when driven with "no care for tire wear".

 

[Scaff]

The one thing GT has always had a hard time simulating is a sence of speed and inertia.

The scenery doesn't blur to any considerable effect, and you get no feeling of accleration, deceleration, or cornering, of course. One day, you will probably install a proper chair the tilts and moves about as you move the car, and it will be built right into the physics of the game; but for now, it's not cheap. Accelerating in a real car (let's say something with over 75hp) gives you more feeling than any race car will in GT4. Cornering at 30mph in real-life is much more of a sensation compared to any car you'll ever play in a video game (as this post is typed, that is.)

Its one of the biggest issues with almost all driving games/sims, the lack of peripheral vision and g-forces are alway going to make a game seem slower than the real world.

Having said that, the size of a track and its surroundings make a big difference; in the real world 80 mph on a track (or airfield runway) will look and feel slow when compared to 80 mph on a hedge lined country road.

I feel the "wet tracks" of GT3 and GT4 aren't accurate, if there's any obvious flaw in the game. GT seems puts more emphasis in understeer, rather than oversteer, when driving hard on wet pavement. Since it rains on average of every 3rd day in Florida, I can vouch that the braking distances are well re-created, but the cornering ability seems like you're driving a truck on a gravel road.

I can't comment on the snow/ice tracks, naturally. They are the magic combination of very fun and very frustrating at the same time. I suppose that depends on whether you're in 1st or 2nd place.

I can't agree that PD got the wet track wrong in GT4 (GT3 is a different matter - far to little understeer), the track in GT4 is not just wet, its pretty much standing water all around, racing and cornering at speed on that is going to be difficult.

Wet tarmac (on average) offers half the level of grip than dry tarmac, combined with the problem that wet normally equals cold and cold also means less grip. Its not 100% fair to compare wet roads with wet tracks, road are designed to drain quickly, the cambers and type of tarmac help this. Race tracks have almost no camber and tarmac that helps grip, but is normally poor draining.

Wet vs Dry road does not fundementaly change what is happening with regard to over/understeer, it just lowers the level at which its going to happen. So it will happen sooner and quicker; that said, in the real world the amount of water and temperature will have a major effect on the tyres.

Regards

Scaff

 

[michaeldenham]

Good points Scaff. One thing I'd add to that is that in the wet in GT4, the reason pupik's perceived increase in understeer might be that the entry speed is too high. I have often found that I come into a corner quickly in the wet and then understeer through it. But if you get the entry speed down and get the front hooked up, then there's no lack of oversteer in most RWDs.

 

[Scaff]

Good points Scaff. One thing I'd add to that is that in the wet in GT4, the reason pupik's perceived increase in understeer might be that the entry speed is too high. I have often found that I come into a corner quickly in the wet and then understeer through it. But if you get the entry speed down and get the front hooked up, then there's no lack of oversteer in most RWDs.

Agree 100%, an M3 around Tsukuba wet is just oversteer all the time, same with the Ford GT.



👍

I just want GT5 to have a wet option on all tracks and make sure we can aqua-plane, that should be fun!

Regards

Scaff

 

[michaeldenham]

I just want GT5 to have a wet option on all tracks and make sure we can aqua-plane, that should be fun!

Regards

Scaff

Wouldn't that be fantastic. I have been dreaming of having a wet version of the 'Ring! Just imagine comparing fwd, rwd and 4wd cars in the dry and then again in the wet at somewhere a bit more interesting than Tsukuba!

 

[Pupik]

Good points Scaff. One thing I'd add to that is that in the wet in GT4, the reason pupik's perceived increase in understeer might be that the entry speed is too high. I have often found that I come into a corner quickly in the wet and then understeer through it. But if you get the entry speed down and get the front hooked up, then there's no lack of oversteer in most RWDs.

Maybe I'm getting more understeer than expected because Tsukuba is...well, an understeer-inducing track, even when dry. But even I can get even a 100hp Corolla to shake it's rear end slightly in the wet in real-life 90-degree corners, or break the adhesion level nicely to near-neutral handling despite its FF architechture. It doesn't take much skill, honestly.

But then again, I haven't charged around on a wet road at 90-100 mph in a while (nor plan to do so again), so maybe my comments on the wet track are a little off.

 

[Uncle Harry]

I would like to discuss the following points about realism in GT4.
Should I be able to beat the AI field in the American Championship races in a modified road car and not be able to win in several Race cars. All races were for 200 points.
The race cars were the Capperal 2d and Ford GT40. The road car was the Cobra Mustang with 530 hp from a supercharger, race exhaust, and all other race components fitted, no cage. NOS was used.
The race cars had to have hard tires and ballast added to get 200 point races. The Mustang got 200 points on Racing mediums and no ballast.
I think this is the first road car I have fitted racing tires to.
The old racers were fast enough to win races stock for about 100 points but as soon as I put hard tires and ballast on I could lead for the first two laps and then got monstered by the AI on the next 3 laps.
The Mustang was driven without adjusting any suspension settings and handled way better than the GT40. My lap times were about 1 second slower each lap with the Mustang than when using the race cars, but I was able to win.
I feel that this borders on the unrealistic.
Did I get lucky with the Mustang?
Will the Mustang detuned and on Sport tires be fast enough to get 200 points in the Supercar Races?

 

[slotcarrod]

I would like to discuss the following points about realism in GT4.
Should I be able to beat the AI field in the American Championship races in a modified road car and not be able to win in several Race cars. All races were for 200 points.
The race cars were the Capperal 2d and Ford GT40. The road car was the Cobra Mustang with 530 hp from a supercharger, race exhaust, and all other race components fitted, no cage. NOS was used.
The race cars had to have hard tires and ballast added to get 200 point races. The Mustang got 200 points on Racing mediums and no ballast.
I think this is the first road car I have fitted racing tires to.
The old racers were fast enough to win races stock for about 100 points but as soon as I put hard tires and ballast on I could lead for the first two laps and then got monstered by the AI on the next 3 laps.
The Mustang was driven without adjusting any suspension settings and handled way better than the GT40. My lap times were about 1 second slower each lap with the Mustang than when using the race cars, but I was able to win.
I feel that this borders on the unrealistic.
Did I get lucky with the Mustang?
Will the Mustang detuned and on Sport tires be fast enough to get 200 points in the Supercar Races?

There are some bugs in the game. I used an SVT Mustang for the same race and got 200 points. We got lucky with the Mustang.

I would like to get lucky in a Mustang! Sorry!

Not sure if you can win supercar races with it.

 

[Scaff]

I would like to discuss the following points about realism in GT4.
Should I be able to beat the AI field in the American Championship races in a modified road car and not be able to win in several Race cars. All races were for 200 points.

The main points here would be how A-spec points are calculated and the AI of the rest of the field.

The actual calculation of A-spec points varies quite a lot (Famine put together a good thread on how they are calculated), and some of them are just plain silly.

One good example is the Dodge Ram, fully modified (in every way) still make 200 points in the Special Conditions rally stages. However as A-spec points are a GT only concept, realism doesn't come into it.


The Ai of opponents is a completely different matter, and I'm sure few here would claim that GT4's AI is acceptable. However, in my opinion very few driving sims/games on consules have strong AI. GT4's is consistent (follows the racing line, but little else) but certainly not that realistic.

The race cars were the Capperal 2d and Ford GT40. The road car was the Cobra Mustang with 530 hp from a supercharger, race exhaust, and all other race components fitted, no cage. NOS was used.
The race cars had to have hard tires and ballast added to get 200 point races. The Mustang got 200 points on Racing mediums and no ballast.
I think this is the first road car I have fitted racing tires to.

Have to say that a Mustang with 530bhp and "all other race components fitted" would be in my mind now be a race car, not a road car. If PD had included the Racing Modification from GT & GT2 it would have helped.

The issue with regard to A-spec points remains the same as above.

The old racers were fast enough to win races stock for about 100 points but as soon as I put hard tires and ballast on I could lead for the first two laps and then got monstered by the AI on the next 3 laps.
The Mustang was driven without adjusting any suspension settings and handled way better than the GT40. My lap times were about 1 second slower each lap with the Mustang than when using the race cars, but I was able to win.
I feel that this borders on the unrealistic.
Did I get lucky with the Mustang?
Will the Mustang detuned and on Sport tires be fast enough to get 200 points in the Supercar Races?

Its hard to discuss what happened with the race cars without more info, what caused the change in pace (to either yourself or the AI cars) between the first two and the last three laps?

As your Mustang was fitted with race suspension, then leaving it standard will still mean different suspension settings than with the stock suspension. It may just be that a race tuned Mustang suits your driving style better that the set-up of a 40 year old race car.

Why you could lap a second quicker in the race cars but lose, when you could win in the slower Mustang is a very difficult one to discuss without seeing each of the races. Hoever, the grid is not always the same and, as discussed above, the AI could also be an issue here.

Is it realistic, well in the world of motorsport a better driver can win in a 'technically' slower car, its not always true, but it can happen.

It does sound as if the Mustang is one of the cars that benifits well in the A-spec calculations, it may not see realistic, but neither is the concept of A-spec points. I just use them as a guide, after all some of the 150+ races I have entered have been easy, some of the 50- races have been a struggle.

As for the supercar race, I have no idea if the Mustang, will do the job, only one way to find that out. Race it and let us know.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Uncle Harry]

I tried the Mustang in the supercar race at Midfield with the stage 2 NA tune and medium sport tires.
Gave 188 points against line up 1 from reset.
Maintained 2nd place but the rabbit (this time a VW V12 Nardo) keept putting about 3 seconds per lap lead on me.
Maybe selecting the right race line up one would have a chance.
I have got 200 points at Infineon Super Car race against the same line up with a Holden SS Comodore with approx 460 hp. (you need 500 to enter but you can then detune for better points in the settings menu.)