Kinect And Wheel

[Crispy]

So for those who know that the G25/7 won't get supported with Forza 4, or the GT3 RS for Fanatec users, there may be a new solution other than the XM1. I don't know if it will work, I don't have a wheel or kinect, but I can't see why it won't work.

To my understanding, the Kinect sensor goes by movement. And for FM4, to use kinect, it looks like you will have to use imaginary wheels, shifters, and pedals. To my, hopefully correct understanding, these high-end PS3 wheels are shaped like wheels, so why not use the wheel with Kinect? You won't get Force Feedback, but you could use it easily, and cheaper since newer Xboxes come with Kinect. If someone could, please take a video.

 

[James1436]

I don't think it works like that. Also you will have no control over the gas peddle/brakes. There are no good 360 wheels in the market atm, but I am hoping that Microsoft releases a new wheel for the release of Forza 4.

 

[-=DV=-]

I don't think it works like that. Also you will have no control over the gas peddle/brakes. There are no good 360 wheels in the market atm, but I am hoping that Microsoft releases a new wheel for the release of Forza 4.

Fanatec 911 GT2?
Fanatec 911 Turbo S?

one of these was actually developed by fanatec working closely with ms and T10 just FOR forza, and the other, well thats the offspring of the one that was developed for forza.

Re: kinect picking up your movement if holding a high end wheel. Yes I could see that working. But then you have no ffb and why not just use the xcm anyway then, its cheaper than kinect. Mind you, you could sell your g25/g27 and add about the cost of the xcm converter to buy a 911 gt2 that is a better wheel. Same cost as purchasing an xcm to work with your g25/g27 and but you have a better wheel. That will work on all platforms

 

[IceMan PJN]

Fanatec 911 GT2?

<voice=Christ Rock>Two-hundred-fiddy dollas? Good lawd that's a lotta money!

How 'bout I give ya two dollas an' you let me use my DFGT?</Chris Rock>

Fanatec 911 Turbo S?

<voice=Christ Rock>Tree-hundred-fordy-five dollas? Good lawd! That's a lot of money!

How 'bout I give you fiddy dollas an' you rip the real thing right off a Porsche?</Chris Rock>

Anything comparable to a DFGT for the 360 for no more than $150? Seriously, the DFGT isn't the greatest racing wheel around, but it's still better than the discontinued Microsoft wheel and I snatched up a brand new one for $130. I have the Microsoft wheel, and it works, but it still isn't as good as the DFGT.

 

[-=DV=-]

iceman atleast here in aus a g27 is over 400 second hand and retail for 599
a wired x360 controller can be found second hand for 20-30
and an xcm converter is from memory 80-90?

suddenly 250 for the gt2 or 345 for the pwts which are both better wheels doent look too bad?


ive noticed in the US that the g27 RRP for 299. like I said once you add an xbox controller required to use the xcm, and the xcm . You end up shelling out more than you would for the better GT2.

Re: dfgt...yes the xbox is lacking an entry level low end wheel. but for only a hundred bucks more you can have something better than even the g27 that works on it...why complain? save an extra weeks drinking money and buy something better

 

[t.o.]

The microsoft wheel is not a horrible wheel by any means. It DOES have some fatal design flaws. Well really only one. The paddle shifters were poorly (cheaply) thought out and wont last too long. There are mods out there though to alleviate that situation if the time should come to do so.

It's nowhere near my Fanatec but it's not a bad little wheel if you had to have one.

 

[rocketcaron]

Bite the bullet. Buy a GT2 with Clubsport pedals. You will be proud you did. These wheels are fantastic.

 

[Bonefork]

<voice=Christ Rock>Two-hundred-fiddy dollas? Good lawd that's a lotta money!

But $150 isn't? What kind of scale are you working with here?

To be fair, anything can be considered "a lot" of money, but you get what you pay for. I'll order the $20 steak over the $7 steak any and every day of the week.

If anything, the only real complaint that can be levied is Fanatec's terrible business model and the resulting always-low stock. I ordered a wheel from them on Feb 2nd and I'm still waiting. I knew it would take this long, but in my opinion, that's completely unacceptable, but they have the market cornered.

 

[t.o.]

But $150 isn't? What kind of scale are you working with here?

To be fair, anything can be considered "a lot" of money, but you get what you pay for. I'll order the $20 steak over the $7 steak any and every day of the week.

If anything, the only real complaint that can be levied is Fanatec's terrible business model and the resulting always-low stock. I ordered a wheel from them on Feb 2nd and I'm still waiting. I knew it would take this long, but in my opinion, that's completely unacceptable, but they have the market cornered.

Don't worry man. Once you get this picture in your house and start to play with it it'll make up for all that waiting time. You DID order the Clubsport pedals right?

 

[Bonefork]

Don't worry man. Once you get this picture in your house and start to play with it it'll make up for all that waiting time. You DID order the Clubsport pedals right?

How could I resist? I'm just hoping mine isn't DOA, but it will be a few weeks yet...

 

[t.o.]

How could I resist? I'm just hoping mine isn't DOA, but it will be a few weeks yet...

I can imagine the wait must be hard. Mine didn't take long at all to come honestly. About a little over a week at the most if I recall.

 

[Tonnie073]

I think it wont work, cause if you would put the pedals under lets say a table, kinect wont see it

 

[t.o.]

I think it wont work, cause if you would put the pedals under lets say a table, kinect wont see it

With my rig Kinect should be able to see the pedals. If someone did something like this then it should be no problem I would think.

 

[Mr Latte]

To my understanding, the Kinect sensor goes by movement. And for FM4, to use kinect, it looks like you will have to use imaginary wheels, shifters, and pedals. To my, hopefully correct understanding, these high-end PS3 wheels are shaped like wheels, so why not use the wheel with Kinect? You won't get Force Feedback, but you could use it easily, and cheaper since newer Xboxes come with Kinect. If someone could, please take a video.

That could be done possibly but you get ZERO response back from what the cars handling is doing having no FFB or feel from the wheel. All you have is the visual change to your movements. Also it is likely to use auto braking and auto gears.

Kinect Head Tracking Better Than GT5's ?
The leaked video as it was called highlighted "Head Tracking".
A major difference is that it showed it working in races unlike GT5 which only supports it in TT mode.

Im not interested in playing with Kinect as a full body motion controller. The car/garage feature may be alright to use it with but I just feel it is something you could get bored of after experiencing it a few times and revert back to the sofa and pad. Headtracking if implemented well could be nice feature which Polphony Digital did such a poor job of.

 

[sandboxgod]

I have a Kinect. It won't be able to see your pedals and their travel distance. Maybe it could analyze the wheel rotation...

I'd rather use an FFB wheel though.

Forza 4/Microsoft really need to come out with more wheel options. The average forza user by far still uses a pad and I am sure they smoke wheel users in a major way anyway

I already have my t500rs wheel which I adore in a big way in any case. I only see myself casually playing with Forza 4's Kinect and just browsing through people's online car shops & designs. My friend's and I all have ps3/pc wheels and I dont see any of us getting to worked up for a fanatec gt2. Great products, bad business model. If thrustmaster were to enter xbox 360 space I suspect fanatec would be in big trouble. I would hands down break myself to come up with $600+ for the luxury of going into a store and buying my product rather than let Fanatec sit on my preorder $$$ gaining interest for months (I know from first hand experience!!! Good products, but unable to deliver)

again, great company. I look forward to perhaps buying a product from them in the future.

but yeah, bottom line Forza 4 needs a new FFB wheel. right now xbox 360 is kind of a joke in my eyes for a serious sim racer. It's a darn shame and ironic because they have probably one of the most fun racers for any platform.

 

[Bonefork]

rather than let Fanatec sit on my preorder $$$ gaining interest for months

Yeah, uhh, the interest on $500 for 3 months in my bank's top-of-the-line savings account (min. $50k balance) is about $1.50 if the market is good. I'm sure the decision to take full payment at time of order is more related to production cost vs. demand, and the cost of the product coupled with the market (many adults, but also many teens and kids who would place an order and then not have the cash).

It's also fairly standard in the custom automotive industry to take payment up front, so there's that.

 

[sandboxgod]

Yeah, uhh, the interest on $500 for 3 months in my bank's top-of-the-line savings account (min. $50k balance) is about $1.50 if the market is good. I'm sure the decision to take full payment at time of order is more related to production cost vs. demand, and the cost of the product coupled with the market (many adults, but also many teens and kids who would place an order and then not have the cash).

It's also fairly standard in the custom automotive industry to take payment up front, so there's that.

Interest accrues based on the total amount in your bank account (not just on my $500 alone ofc). But yes every mail order company is bound by law to take your money upfront for preorders so I am not accusing them of foul play.

What I am saying I think the wait times for the Fanatec GT2 wheels to be unacceptable. xbox 360 should have more than 1 FFB wheel to choose from. Competition is good. 1 company cornering the ffb wheel market is a monopoly. xbox 360 is a poor platform to me for serious racing due to the massive lack of options (Mad Catz wheels or Fanatec, thats your choices ). So only 1 of the 2 is popular amongst racing sim fans. The PS3/PC platforms have much more diverse set of wheels to choose from

 

[Coxis]

While using an actual wheel as a Kinect controller is a neat idea, wouldn't the FFB motor block the Kinect's view of your hands? I'm not sure it'd work.

 

[Bonefork]

Interest accrues based on the total amount in your bank account (not just on my $500 alone ofc).

I was basing that number off the idea that you had the $50k required for the account.

What I am saying I think the wait times for the Fanatec GT2 wheels to be unacceptable.

Completely and totally.

I wonder what Thomas thinks when he reads people speaking with candor about his products. I mean, isn't there something he can do to fix all these problems? Not many companies, big or small, have these kinds of delays. It makes me think he's got a day job or something and has to juggle his commitments.

I have a Kinect. It won't be able to see your pedals and their travel distance.

Why not? On Jimmy Fallon they were playing Burnout by moving their feet as if they were on pedals...

While using an actual wheel as a Kinect controller is a neat idea, wouldn't the FFB motor block the Kinect's view of your hands? I'm not sure it'd work.

Why would you do that if you had a wheel?? As for making a stationary wheel out of wood, it should work fine, since Microsoft has repeatedly stated in their advertising that you can do things like that.

..again, assuming it works as it's been shown to.

 

[sandboxgod]

^^ I was thinking about using real pedals. That sounds even worse if I have to pretend I have a foot pedal. But we already know they're not going that route from the footage and interviews. you're on rails

 

[t.o.]

It would be funny if this thing turns out to be the best thing since sliced bread. lol

 

[Coxis]

Why would you do that if you had a wheel?? As for making a stationary wheel out of wood, it should work fine, since Microsoft has repeatedly stated in their advertising that you can do things like that.

Read the first post.

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

Forza 4/Microsoft really need to come out with more wheel options. The average forza user by far still uses a pad and I am sure they smoke wheel users in a major way anyway

You'd be surprised to find out the pad and wheel are alot closer to equal on Forza. Much closer than GT for sure. You didn't have a prayer of a top time with the pad on GT5, which I think is one of the big downfalls of the game. As much as some love to spend the extra dough for the immersion of a wheel, it shouldn't be like GT where it becomes a necessity to go fast.

But with Forza it's pretty even. Put it this way, the two guys who since FM2 have kind of separated themselves as the two best in the world, one of them uses the pad, the other the wheel.

My opinion is the wheel on Forza has a small advantage on most tracks due to the added smoothness it provides. The controller has the advantage on a few of the more tight and twisty tracks where quick movements are required.

But agree, MS does need to come up with a decent wheel. I've always been a pad driver, but switched to the wheel for GT5. I would still prefer to drive with a pad, but have found that driving with the wheel is much easier on my hands.

 

[Bonefork]

I was thinking about using real pedals. That sounds even worse if I have to pretend I have a foot pedal. But we already know they're not going that route from the footage and interviews. you're on rails

Except all of Microsoft's advertising has a bit about "using your own gear as a controller" and then goes about showing people on skateboards and the like... so...? But you're the one with a Kinect, why don't you just rent Joyride, try it out and tell us? Information is always better than misinformation, and I don't think it naive to accept what Microsoft has advertised as truth; especially considering having a camera sense the motion of a foot on a pedal from any angle seems like a fairly trivial task if it's visible, which, from 8 feet, it should be..

 

[sandboxgod]

Except all of Microsoft's advertising has a bit about "using your own gear as a controller" and then goes about showing people on skateboards and the like... so...? But you're the one with a Kinect, why don't you just rent Joyride, try it out and tell us? Information is always better than misinformation, and I don't think it naive to accept what Microsoft has advertised as truth; especially considering having a camera sense the motion of a foot on a pedal from any angle seems like a fairly trivial task if it's visible, which, from 8 feet, it should be..

Bonefork, highlighted in bold what the thread is bout--- using a real wheel, etc with Kinect. (ah, you edited your post!)

So for those who know that the G25/7 won't get supported with Forza 4, or the GT3 RS for Fanatec users, there may be a new solution other than the XM1. I don't know if it will work, I don't have a wheel or kinect, but I can't see why it won't work.

To my understanding, the Kinect sensor goes by movement. And for FM4, to use kinect, it looks like you will have to use imaginary wheels, shifters, and pedals. To my, hopefully correct understanding, these high-end PS3 wheels are shaped like wheels, so why not use the wheel with Kinect? You won't get Force Feedback, but you could use it easily, and cheaper since newer Xboxes come with Kinect. If someone could, please take a video.

 

[sandboxgod]

Anyway, to answer Bonefork's query. I personally use the T500rs wheel like I mentioned before on a wheel stand. When I use my pedals in GT position there is -no way- the Kinect can detect my pedals at all when I am facing the TV screen. That's all there is to it. I have both Kinect and a t500rs so I know 👍

And even if I were to go f1 orientation I wonder how is a Kinect cam going to see me turn my wheel? And no way am I detaching my t500rs wheel from the base for this.

It's just not going to work.

[edit] Also, are you aware how big my wheel is (t500rs) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUMAbsNZB4E -- How is Kinect supposed to see my full wheel rotation?

 

[UnionStrike]

You'd be surprised to find out the pad and wheel are alot closer to equal on Forza. Much closer than GT for sure. You didn't have a prayer of a top time with the pad on GT5, which I think is one of the big downfalls of the game. As much as some love to spend the extra dough for the immersion of a wheel, it shouldn't be like GT where it becomes a necessity to go fast.

Are you seriously arguing that pad users should in any way be as fast as a wheel user? Try driving a car in real life, then picture doing the same with a pad, then back to a real car, then your pad. Which one offer more control? Not the pad.

There's a good reason why in Forza it's a lot closer, the acrade physic doesn't favor either as it does not accurately simulate real driving physics, it's a far cry from the much more realistic physic of GT5, so natrually.. wheel users would dominate.

 

[sandboxgod]

Yeah there is no way a pad should come close to the precision a wheel can offer.

This goes back to the thread topic- Kinect wheel. Without the direct input from the steering wheel, you going to be losing a ton of precision. The Kinect will no doubt use the buffers to analyze your hands rather than the wheel itself. There's no way thats going to be very precise like what my wheel can do (up 65535 values, extremely accurate).

So I can see using the Kinect rail driving portion to sit around with my kids and goof off. But no way could I see this for any sort of serious sim racing. There's just no way. The tech just isn't there for that

You're much better off getting an FFB wheel anyway. There's a ton of important information that's conveyed via FFB. But I won't delve into that deeply here

 

[Bonefork]

Anyway, to answer Bonefork's query. I personally use the T500rs wheel like I mentioned before on a wheel stand. When I use my pedals in GT position there is -no way- the Kinect can detect my pedals at all when I am facing the TV screen. That's all there is to it. I have both Kinect and a t500rs so I know

Well then that settles it.

I was just watching the Kinect E3 video from last year and all the comments were about how it's total BS and can't do half the things they promised, so I guess I was naive for believing them.

There's a good reason why in Forza it's a lot closer, the acrade physic doesn't favor either as it does not accurately simulate real driving physics, it's a far cry from the much more realistic physic of GT5, so natrually.. wheel users would dominate.

Hey, look, a troll who's also a physics professor. How rare.

 

[cuco33]

If you call Forza and arcade racer or a game having arcade physics... be sure to do exactly the same for GT5. Likewise if you call one a sim, the other is as well. Most of the PC sim folks claim both console franchises are not sims, but I'm not one of them.
In Forza, T10 added something so the bulk of buyers, controller users, can be comparable to wheel users. In GT5, PD did not. They mostly looked at the wheel users only which don't account for the bulk of GT5 buyers.