Land Speed Record, piston driven

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dotini
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That's cool. It's nice to know that some people still want to break the "lesser" class records which aren't the absolute.
 
Nitro powered engines.

I wonder what could be achieved with a turbo setup, seeing how that's pretty much the way to go nowadays.
 
To be fair, the record was improved only modestly. See below.


George Poteet and Ron Main’s Speed Demon has established a new land speed record for a piston engined wheel driven car. During Bonneville Speed Week the car hit 451.933 mph with Poteet at the wheel, setting a new combined record of 437.183 mph smashing the old record by 47.183 mph.

During Speed Week a car that beats the old record on a single run qualifies for a record attempt. It then makes a second run. The two times are averaged and if that number beats the previous record, a new one has been set. This does not meet the FIA criteria for records which require a two way pass within one hour.

Speed Demon is powered by a five-litre 2,200 horsepower V8 engine and has won the prestigious Hot Rod Trophy at Bonneville for five straight years. The team is not resting on its laurels however and has stated that it intends to be the first wheel driven car to break the 500mph barrier and exceed the current outright wheel driven record currently held by Don Vesco’s Turbinator. Speed Demon will be back on the Salt next month in an attempt to establish a record recognised by the FIA.

This years run at Bonneville is not the cars fastest, in late 2011 it hit 462mph during a run – which can be viewed below.



http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news/speed-demon-smashes-land-speed-record/
 
I remember, back in the 90's, that land speed record runs where televised quite a lot, I think by Discovery. Always late at night, and usually live.
 
Not piston driven, but a helicopter turbine driving through all 4 wheels: 503 mph!



 
A new land speed record was achieved for piston engine wheel-driven cars this year at Bonneville Salt Flats, Utah.
The new record is 470 mph measured both ways over a flying mile. Top speed was 480 mph.

 
Roger the Horse
Is there a separate class for rotary engine powered vehicles?
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I believe an RX-7 holds the record at 242 mph. The various timing clubs have a class for virtually everything down to 50cc, IMHO.

Note: There are various standards for records. At the very top is the FIA, which has the most rigorous standards, including a two-way run completed within one hour.
 
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Dotini
I believe an RX-7 holds the record at 242 mph. The various timing clubs have a class for virtually everything down to 50cc, IMHO.

Note: There are various standards for records. At the very top is the FIA, which has the most rigorous standards, including a two-way run completed within one hour.
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Damn thats a very beatable record considering the fastest Rotary quarter mile is only 15MPH off the record.
 
mustafur
Damn thats a very beatable record considering the fastest Rotary quarter mile is only 15MPH off the record.
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I'm sure there are timing associations down under. You should get in touch with one or more. The Golden Age of the American land speed record era of the 60's originated in the hot rod movement of the 50's. You can - maybe - build a record-breaking car in your garage on a working man's budget.
 
What type of engines exactly do these wheel-driven, piston engined LSR cars have? Are they big aeroplane engines like the 1920s LSR cars but in a more efficient package?

I'm just trying to comprehend a 'traditionally formatted' engine being able to push car wheels to 430mph+ and the scale of that engine.
 
Liquid
What type of engines exactly do these wheel-driven, piston engined LSR cars have? Are they big aeroplane engines like the 1920s LSR cars but in a more efficient package?

I'm just trying to comprehend a 'traditionally formatted' engine being able to push car wheels to 430mph+ and the scale of that engine.
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One of Dotini's posts above states that "Speed Demon is powered by a five-litre 2,200 horsepower V8 engine". In one of the videos it looks to be twin turbocharged.

So, not as exotic as you might think. Gearing and aerodynamics are the clinching factors it would seem.

The Turbinator is a little more exotic with its helicopter gas-turbine motor.
 
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Liquid
What type of engines exactly do these wheel-driven, piston engined LSR cars have? Are they big aeroplane engines like the 1920s LSR cars but in a more efficient package?

I'm just trying to comprehend a 'traditionally formatted' engine being able to push car wheels to 430mph+ and the scale of that engine.
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IMHO, most of the type of engine we're talking about here started life as a Chrysler Hemi, dating from the 60's. Massive iron block, pushrod valves arranged in a hemispherical combustion chamber.
 
Liquid
What type of engines exactly do these wheel-driven, piston engined LSR cars have? Are they big aeroplane engines like the 1920s LSR cars but in a more efficient package?

I'm just trying to comprehend a 'traditionally formatted' engine being able to push car wheels to 430mph+ and the scale of that engine.
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Land Speed racing is pretty much anything goes if the team wants to run it. Speed Demon's record run was a twin turbo big block Chevrolet, and their previous records were with either twin turbo small block Chevrolets or LS engines. Some of the guys run twin engines (Challenger 2 runs two Big block Fords on nitromethane and a team runs 2 Cadillac 500 V8s), a team runs a turbine engine with the goal of 500 mph at Bonneville, and a slew of other combinations.
 
Don’t top fuel nitro dragster engines make upwards of 3000 horsepower? Why not just use one of those, got 50% more than the engines they’re currently running.
 
Frank McGank
Don’t top fuel nitro dragster engines make upwards of 3000 horsepower? Why not just use one of those, got 50% more than the engines they’re currently running.
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Presumably due to the length of run required for record setting, ultra highly strung drag engines can quite often not survive 50ft.
 
MaxAttack
Presumably due to the length of run required for record setting, ultra highly strung drag engines can quite often not survive 50ft.
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How about the 2000bhp one to get the car up to speed, and then switch off to the 3000bhp one once the car is at speed? Only needs to run for a few seconds. A sequential engine setup
 
Frank McGank
How about the 2000bhp one to get the car up to speed, and then switch off to the 3000bhp one once the car is at speed? Only needs to run for a few seconds. A sequential engine setup
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That's just more to go wrong and more weight to lug around. Drag engines get striped down between each 1/4mile run (or whatever they do these days) so with each flying mile - plus whatever run up and slow down they require and the fact that they have to do a return run too, those engines are just not designed for that kind of running. A turbocharged engine may also have better packaging and therefore aerodynamic advantages over the traditional supercharged drag engine.
 
TheCracker
That's just more to go wrong and more weight to lug around. Drag engines get striped down between each 1/4mile run (or whatever they do these days) so with each flying mile - plus whatever run up and slow down they require and the fact that they have to do a return run too, those engines are just not designed for that kind of running. A turbocharged engine may also have better packaging and therefore aerodynamic advantages over the traditional supercharged drag engine.
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You’re not gonna break records by pulling punches and playing it safe. Also, I don’t think weight matters so much once you’re already moving. Top speed is about the only facet of performance where being fat doesn’t have that great of an effect.
 
Frank McGank
You’re not gonna break records by pulling punches and playing it safe. Also, I don’t think weight matters so much once you’re already moving. Top speed is about the only facet of performance where being fat doesn’t have that great of an effect.
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I dread to think of the complexity of putting 5000hp worth of engines in sequence. Similar types of attempts of a route-a way to a ton of power have been tried before.

image-asset.jpeg


They didn't go so well.

EDIT: As the poster above you said, those engines are just designed for a completely different kind of abuse. I don't think they'll stand up to the length of landspeed runs with any amount of engineering wizardry. You have to build for purpose for such an extreme discipline - much like drag itself.
 
Frank McGank
How about the 2000bhp one to get the car up to speed, and then switch off to the 3000bhp one once the car is at speed? Only needs to run for a few seconds. A sequential engine setup
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But it needs to run again, within the hour and in the other direction, for an official LSR.
 
Frank McGank
You’re not gonna break records by pulling punches and playing it safe. Also, I don’t think weight matters so much once you’re already moving. Top speed is about the only facet of performance where being fat doesn’t have that great of an effect.
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Reading an article on Ken Duttweiler the George Poteet Speed Demon's engine builder, it states that the power of the engine is restricted due to traction. These narrow streamliners use very narrow wheels on a very narrow track due to the aerodynamic benefits of keeping the car slim. Hence why they use a small block Chevy LS-based block instead of the larger (wider) hemi-based ones favored by the drag fraternity.
 
Frank McGank
Don’t top fuel nitro dragster engines make upwards of 3000 horsepower? Why not just use one of those, got 50% more than the engines they’re currently running.
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They make over 11,000 now but barely last 1,000 feet.

TheCracker
Reading an article on Ken Duttweiler the George Poteet Speed Demon's engine builder, it states that the power of the engine is restricted due to traction. These narrow streamliners use very narrow wheels on a very narrow track due to the aerodynamic benefits of keeping the car slim. Hence why they use a small block Chevy LS-based block instead of the larger (wider) hemi-based ones favored by the drag fraternity.
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A lot of the teams I follow have also said that the surface has been terrible the past couple years as well.
 
TheCracker
Reading an article on Ken Duttweiler the George Poteet Speed Demon's engine builder, it states that the power of the engine is restricted due to traction. These narrow streamliners use very narrow wheels on a very narrow track due to the aerodynamic benefits of keeping the car slim. Hence why they use a small block Chevy LS-based block instead of the larger (wider) hemi-based ones favored by the drag fraternity.
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I would imagine that even with the smallest adjustments in shape, the drag increase would increase the power demands pretty rapidly at those speeds. It would be pretty interesting to see how much more power is needed, but they probably already did that calculation.
 
-Fred-
It's roughly a minute of lifetime, with burnout/staging/run. They're basically grenades.
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That's for damn sure.
I'll never forget the day a diesel dragster oiled down the track and 7 top fuels from both classes blew up later on at an NHRA event we went to. We didn't even get home until 3:00 am, and that was just driving to Ohio from here. They cut a qualifying session from all sportsman classes that day after Q3 of the pros.
 

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