Last of the true American musclecar?

[Philly]

To me, I think a true muscle car has to be a full sized car that is perfectly livable but with a huge V8 shoved in it. For modern American muscle cars, I'd really only consider the Charger SRT8, the Marauder and the Pontiac G8 GXP. The GTO and Challenger still count as sports cars or pony cars to me, which I view as something different from a muscle car. I don't view performance as very much of a criteria for a muscle car. It is just a big coupe or sedan with a big engine with lots of power.

Muscle cars really went downhill in the early 70s, and even though the big engines were still put into these cars, I say the Torinos, Chargers, Road Runners and GTOs of the early 70s were pretty much the last. Anything newer than that like the current stuff and the GNX are revivals or count as modern muscle.

Just my thought...

 

[AMCNUT]

Pony car?

Pony Car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Pony

 

[RedTransAm]

This.

 

[plate88]

Everyone always forgets though that the whole "ponycar" and "musclecar" also involved price. The original cars from the 60's and 70's could be bought with minimal options to keep price really affordable.

The Challenger SRT8 starts at almost $44,000. Ridiculous. Even if I were a Mopar guy I still wouldn't pay that for a rubbish car. You can almost have a Corvette for this price. I'll admit the Challenger looks great, but thats it.

I really don't think anything can be considered muscle/ponycar anymore. Unfortunately those terms are pretty much dead. Except for the car companies using those terms for marketing reasons.

However, has anyone seen the Dodge Express pickup? The whole idea is to give the customer the base version so he/she can customize however they see fit. It's going to have the Hemi in it and start around $21,000. Wow. Seen this truck on Speed channel a few weeks back on Gearz and believe it comes out in 2012.

The Gearz show contacted Ford and Chevy to see if they would build something with big power for low price(like the Express) and they basically laughed at the idea. Which reinforces my belief that muscle/ponycars are dead cause in the 60's/70's it was about the customer and not about bottom lines/profit.

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

Everyone always forgets though that the whole "ponycar" and "musclecar" also involved price. The original cars from the 60's and 70's could be bought with minimal options to keep price really affordable.

The Challenger SRT8 starts at almost $44,000. Ridiculous. Even if I were a Mopar guy I still wouldn't pay that for a rubbish car. You can almost have a Corvette for this price. I'll admit the Challenger looks great, but thats it.

I really don't think anything can be considered muscle/ponycar anymore. Unfortunately those terms are pretty much dead. Except for the car companies using those terms for marketing reasons.

However, has anyone seen the Dodge Express pickup? The whole idea is to give the customer the base version so he/she can customize however they see fit. It's going to have the Hemi in it and start around $21,000. Wow. Seen this truck on Speed channel a few weeks back on Gearz and believe it comes out in 2012.

The Gearz show contacted Ford and Chevy to see if they would build something with big power for low price(like the Express) and they basically laughed at the idea. Which reinforces my belief that muscle/ponycars are dead cause in the 60's/70's it was about the customer and not about bottom lines/profit.

How is the Challenger rubbish? It is built on a solid platform and the V8s are solid motors. And the car is worth it on looks alone. Also you can pick a V6 one for high 20s, low 30s. For 44k, a SRT8 is a great car, given the M3 is nearly 25-30k more. Mustang is still the best bang for your buck, but if I would get the Challenger for the looks alone.

 

[Eric.]

Because Mustang.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

How is the Challenger rubbish? It is built on a solid platform and the V8s are solid motors. And the car is worth it on looks alone. Also you can pick a V6 one for high 20s, low 30s. For 44k, a SRT8 is a great car, given the M3 is nearly 25-30k more. Mustang is still the best bang for your buck, but if I would get the Challenger for the looks alone.

Not really, and the M3 is 25k-30k more for a reason.

 

[Tornado]

How is the Challenger rubbish? It is built on a solid platform and the V8s are solid motors.

Solid is right.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Uhm. This:

Muscle cars are about really one thing in general. More power. The most power possible in the smallest car possible. The GT500 delivers 550bhp from a supercharged 5.4 liter V8. If that doesn't DEFINE "muscle car" than I don't know what does.

 

[12thgear]

Muscle cars are about really one thing in general. More power. The most power possible in the smallest car possible. The GT500 delivers 550bhp from a supercharged 5.4 liter V8. If that doesn't DEFINE "muscle car" than I don't know what does.

Sweet car. But I think a proper muscle car is about a big, bad, torquey V8 in something affordable. It's about making that engine attainable. The fact that today's Camaros and Mustangs can handle doesn't make them any less the muscle car in my book. It just makes them better.

The GT500 elevates to something else entirely, but I'm not quite sure what that is.

Then again, don't ask me about proper muscle cars, as I'm not a big muscle car guy. People could rightly argue that the current Mustang GT is no longer a muscle car because I like it.

 

[plate88]

Sweet car. But I think a proper muscle car is about a big, bad, torquey V8 in something affordable. It's about making that engine attainable. The fact that today's Camaros and Mustangs can handle doesn't make them any less the muscle car in my book. It just makes them better.

The GT500 elevates to something else entirely, but I'm not quite sure what that is.

Then again, don't ask me about proper muscle cars, as I'm not a big muscle car guy. People could rightly argue that the current Mustang GT is no longer a muscle car because I like it.

This guy gets it and he's not even a big musclecar fan. Key words are affordable and attainable. I don't think the SRT8 is affordable. The Mustangs and Camaros are which is why I see them everyday.

Also, how cool is it that Ford is selling their Boss 302 motor? I'm contemplating on putting one in my 88 Mustang GT.

 

[Zenith]

Also, how cool is it that Ford is selling their Boss 302 motor? I'm contemplating on putting one in my 88 Mustang GT.

Good luck. The engines are $9,000+ and you'll have to redo the entire drivetrain to deal with all that power.

 

[plate88]

Good luck. The engines are $9,000+ and you'll have to redo the entire drivetrain to deal with all that power.

Moneys not a problem and I believe it wouldn't be too hard to swap it in there. Car currently has a Fox Lake 347 with a D1S Procharger, 4 link/coilovers, and a k member coilover setup up front, but that will need modded. Car is heavily modified already, runs low 10's in 1/4, and is a riot on a road course.

The Boss 302 motor would definitely make it unique and different. I actually think I will be going down on power by doing this swap. So no worries.

 

[Jloosh]

Even though this thread is old, I figure i would put in my $.02

I think the last years of the trans am and camaro before they discontinued them in 02 were of muscle car status...or even the last GTO's.

For example, the LS1 motor, which GM rated at 305hp actually was about 350hp.

The cars were not overly confortable, did not handle like a bmw, and were mean mothers in the straight line racing. With a 6speed manual the camaros could hit high 12's with the right driver, and drag slicks got that number even lower.

Also, the cars were had for under 30k...which for what you were getting wasn't that bad.

Plus the WS6 Trans Am had style and performance.

Also for being a n/a engine, the only way Mustangs stood a chance were to used forced induction.

Although I will admit though, there is something about being around, seeing, and riding in an old classic....they have the look, the smell, the sound, and the feel that you cant get in something new....not like it used to be with the old muscle

 

[Rockettd]

 

[MatskiMonk]

I'd say american muscle is something that's from the US, and, first and foremost - at the expense of other sensible considerations, it's putting the maximum power through the simplest chassis, at a reasonable price.

Fact is, most of these cars aren't sold outside of the US, which is a shame.

I've got no opinion on the last 'true' muscle car... as, as far as I can tell, they are still making them, it's just the world around them that changed.

 

[savage388]

Even though this thread is old, I figure i would put in my $.02

I think the last years of the trans am and camaro before they discontinued them in 02 were of muscle car status...or even the last GTO's.

For example, the LS1 motor, which GM rated at 305hp actually was about 350hp.

The cars were not overly confortable, did not handle like a bmw, and were mean mothers in the straight line racing. With a 6speed manual the camaros could hit high 12's with the right driver, and drag slicks got that number even lower.

Also, the cars were had for under 30k...which for what you were getting wasn't that bad.

Plus the WS6 Trans Am had style and performance.

Also for being a n/a engine, the only way Mustangs stood a chance were to used forced induction.

Although I will admit though, there is something about being around, seeing, and riding in an old classic....they have the look, the smell, the sound, and the feel that you cant get in something new....not like it used to be with the old muscle

The ls1 was never rated at 305 hp. The lowest raring it ever got was 325hp in the 4th gen camaros and firebirds. They also looked very nice and handled quite good. The gto on the other hand was big heavy and handled like the queen Mary. That was a muscle car.

 

[Kievit]

Bit OT but, wow, I shouldn't have looked this up.. A Dodge Challenger SRT8 costs $45K over there? a BMW M3 $75K?

Guess what it costs here.

120%? maybe 150%? ..Uhh, 200%!?





Nope. Both cost about 95K more.

Dodge Challenger: $140K
BMW M3: $170K

Oh, and over $8 a gallon.

 

[savage388]

Bit OT but, wow, I shouldn't have looked this up.. A Dodge Challenger SRT8 costs $45K over there? a BMW M3 $75K?

Guess what it costs here.

120%? maybe 150%? ..Uhh, 200%!?

Nope. Both cost about 95K more.

Dodge Challenger: $140K
BMW M3: $170K

Oh, and over $8 a gallon.

That is awful. I can buy an Aston Martin db9 for that money.

 

[Jloosh]

The ls1 was never rated at 305 hp. The lowest raring it ever got was 325hp in the 4th gen camaros and firebirds. They also looked very nice and handled quite good. The gto on the other hand was big heavy and handled like the queen Mary. That was a muscle car.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/1999/pontiac/firebird/trans_am_coupe/1626/specifications/

I think 01 and 02 were rated higher...and Im talking in the fbodys not the corvettes...even though if you look it up I think some of the fbodys dynoed more to the wheels then the vette with the same motor...

 

[savage388]

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/1999/pontiac/firebird/trans_am_coupe/1626/specifications/

I think 01 and 02 were rated higher...and Im talking in the fbodys not the corvettes...even though if you look it up I think some of the fbodys dynoed more to the wheels then the vette with the same motor...

Hmm I guess so. That's does seem to be a bit underrated as the I'm 100 percent that at least the 02 camaro was rated for 325 hp. I'll have to look into the differences between the two as I've always known Chevrolet engines to have very similar hp from car to car.

 

[MatskiMonk]

That is awful. I can buy an Aston Martin db9 for that money.

Lol, yep, that's why no one respects Americans that gloat about having expensive cars, is motoring cheaper ANYWHERE in the world!?

 

[Cale]

Lol, yep, that's why no one respects Americans that gloat about having expensive cars, is motoring cheaper ANYWHERE in the world!?

Why not gloat? We get way more car for the money. Everybody gloats about getting good deals on anything.

 

[AudiPro]

Yea I don't see today's muscle cars as an actual muscle car. Muscle cars back in the day were self created, you bought the car, and you replaced the engine to make it the beast that it was. Today everything is built for the car, there are no engine swaps in cars like this unless you feel risky and do one but it would be completely pointless to do so.

 

[Cale]

Yea I don't see today's muscle cars as an actual muscle car. Muscle cars back in the day were self created, you bought the car, and you replaced the engine to make it the beast that it was.

No, just no.

 

[savage388]

Yea I don't see today's muscle cars as an actual muscle car. Muscle cars back in the day were self created, you bought the car, and you replaced the engine to make it the beast that it was. Today everything is built for the car, there are no engine swaps in cars like this unless you feel risky and do one but it would be completely pointless to do so.

So the ls6 1970 chevelle wasn't enough beast??? The reason there were muscle cars is because of all the factory hot rods.

 

[Zenith]

Yea I don't see today's muscle cars as an actual muscle car. Muscle cars back in the day were self created, you bought the car, and you replaced the engine to make it the beast that it was. Today everything is built for the car, there are no engine swaps in cars like this unless you feel risky and do one but it would be completely pointless to do so.

Even hot rods would struggle to fit that definition.

 

[BobbyBRAKEaNek]

To me the latest of great muscle cars are made my Mercedes and the Aussies. We stopped in the late 70s. The new 5.0 stang is a good step in that direction, but anything between that time frame from the US was entirely to weak.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Why not gloat? We get way more car for the money. Everybody gloats about getting good deals on anything.

M'eh, no reason not to gloat I guess, if that's your bag.. god bless America, and all those that fall before her!

 

[Slash]

Uhm. This:

Muscle cars are about really one thing in general. More power. The most power possible in the smallest car possible. The GT500 delivers 550bhp from a supercharged 5.4 liter V8. If that doesn't DEFINE "muscle car" than I don't know what does.

Next year is 650HP and 600ft-lb torque.


Um, how about these:
1967 Ford Shelby GT500

1969 Ford Mustang Boss 429

1978 Ford Mustang Cobra II

1970 Ford Mustang Boss 302

1965 Ford Mustang GT Fastback

1973 Ford Mustang Mach 1

If those don't screem muscle car to you than I don't know what will.


And then there is the pony car Mustang, which got up and went and started at $1,000. My granny had one similar to this.

1965 Ford Mustang Coupe