Learning MT in-game

S

Shadow Wulf 2k

133
ShadowWulf
I have been playing the GT series since the first one came out. I am at the point where I can drive a good racing line, win races, get decent times, use no aids, use N tires, but I always use the Automatic Transmission, ever since GT1.

I wanted to know if anyone could recommend a good "trainer" car for learning Manual Transmission using the DFP or DS2. I have been trying to practice using sub-300 HP cars with AWD (example: Subaru Impreza 22B STi). My biggest problem is that I focus too much on the tachometer to know when to shift and I don't pay enough attention to steering and braking. I usually end up sliding off of the course.

Could anyone suggest some tips,setups,cars,tracks,etc that would help with learning to race with MT?
 
Find a car that has a long time between the redline and the actual rev limiter. This helps you as you can see the red shift light blinking in the corner of your eye for a longer time before the limiter steps in. The Plymouth Superbird and the Dodge Charger Super Bee are good at this aspect.

Take a track on which you have to shift quite much, thus forcing you to learn it. Grand Valley is a good all-round track, some street course like Opera Paris can be good too.

It feels awkward at first, especially when shifting down, but if I was able to learn it, you will be too. :P
 
It really comes down to shifting around a lot and there is (probably) only one "trick" - try listening to the engine.

Although (only) writing this hurts a bit, get a car, choose Le Mans II (without the chicanes) and let the limiter step in. Listen to the sound the car makes as it revs up to the limiter - it might be a good idea to have BGM turned off btw - and try to "memorize" this sound. Now try to shift whenever the car starts to "sound" like it will hit the limiter soon.
This takes some time and if you changes cars, you'll have to do it all over again, but if you do this you'll learn not to focus on the tachometer too much.

A good idea might be the (DTM) Audi A4 Touring Car, it's the four-door saloon-racing car you can find in the Audi-hall.
This car literally does not have a "visible" rev-limiter area, so it's all down to "listening" to the engine rather than looking "oh, there's the red are, i'll only have to look where it starts"


So, whichever car you have, take the car down to the long backstraight of Le Mans, the famous Hunadieres.
You have enough time to shift up and down several times - brake like you would tackle the chicanes but go straight ahead and train shifting down without looking at the tachometer.
Well, doing this you also have the first challenge up ahead, breaking (and shifting down) into Mulsannes Corner at the same time.


It might be easier doing it on a long straight first, but be sure to hit a Course with lot's of corners like GreyCap mentioned.
Driving on Courses like Grand Valley, it might be a good idea to look if you have to shift up/down in corners just for 50 metres or so, try fiddling around with the gears until you haven't to shift down for that corner. It makes life a lot easier if you don't have to shift up and down two times in front of a corner especially if you have started with the MT recently.

A stock Jaguar S-Type might be a good idea, too, since the gear-change goes pretty fast, try that if you can spare the money, since it's a different kind of driving (and accelerating).
 
I'll recommend the Integra Type-R. It's got a high rev limiter, a fair sized redline cushion, and it makes all of its power up high. This means you can feel when you haven't downshifted enough in taking a given corner, because it will bog and accelerate slowly at the exit unless you keep the revs high enough.

It does take practice, but you will get the hang of it. I enjoy MTX much more because I don't have to second-guess what the ATX is going to do.

One tip I'll offer is that you should not downshift too quickly coming into turns. Give the car a little time to deaccelerate smoothly befgore changing down again.

Speaking of downshifting, do you know that the red number that appears as you approach a turn is the suggested gear for that turn? It also starts flashing at the suggested brake point. These indicators are not perfect, but they are a good starting point touse when learning a manual trans.
 
When I made teh transition to manual I just turned up the volume and listened to the engine.

Generally I find it quite easy to identify the upshift point by sound, atleast after a few shifts.

Only problem is, you really do need the volume up enough to hear properly in order to do it.
 
I have actually recently and succesfully made the transition from AT to MT.

The way I did it was I took a solid, smooth and easy car to drive. In my case I used a brand new stock Subaru Impreza Spec C. An RX-7 would also be a good choice. You definatly don't want to learn on the F1 or the Minolta 88C-V.

Pretty much any course will work, but pick one that you know very well. Infact pick the course you know best. I took my Subaru to Midfield normal and just kept running laps until I got better. When I got bored with that track I went to the Capri Rally. (Which worked pretty well because I made tons of money while doing it.)

Like what others have said, pay attention to engine sounds rather than the tachometer. The only real piece of advice I can give you is just to practice. It took me a solid week to get adjusted, and once I got used to it, it became second nature and I never even think about it when I race anymore.

Also, when you come up to a corner usually a red number will flash right above the current gear your are in. This red number signifies the recommended gear you should drive through the corner. Keep this in mind because it will help with your downshifting until you master the MT system.

Hope this helps and remember to don't give up at first because it takes time.
 
Just as all say,don`t look 2 much on tachometer.You will see the red blinking light showing up!I think myself as expirienced at MT,and i look at the tacho,but only if it`s tough competition when you must shift at peak point!
Like S2000, almost 10k RPM to work with 👍
 
I practice on each track and build in my memory some kind of lists of what to do. I slice the track in straights and corners and memorize what to do regarding throttle, brakes, gears and steering.

The "gear number list" is something like this : I know that before corner 1 I'll upshift to let's say 3rd, and then get down to 1st, up shift up to 5th before corner 2 and then dowshift to 2nd etc...

It's something I got used to doing when driving 125cc shifter karts, these are so fast that you can't take the time to think about what the next gear should be, should I be smooth on the throttle or should I open it in full, etc.... So I started building in memory some kind of "delta gear list". I know that coming to corner 1 I will be in 5th and will downshift 3 gears, so I remember "first corner -3", then I remember " corner 1 exit +4" if I can shift up to 6th before corner 2, etc..

When playing GT4 things are much slower and I use the gear number list.

Of course if anything goes wrong you have to re-sync your lists (ie after a crash or some lawn mowing session : I'm coming to corner 7 so I'll need to go up to 4th before corner 8) or everything will be screwed up. The good thing is that when all this gets automatic it frees your brain of a lot of things and you can concentrate on something else, like figuring out what's the guy in front of you doing and when will be the best moment to pass.

The up shift trigger is the engine sound, you need to get used to what the sound is when an up-shift is needed. The down shift trigger is the braking point, you start braking thus you'll have to down shift to whatever gear the corner requires. Take your time, don't try to down shift three gears in 0.1 seconds. You are in your braking zone so the most important thing at this time is to get the best braking you can. Evenly space your shifts during the braking time.

You may not always need to go up to the red line before shifting, plenty of torque will spin your wheels pretty easily and it's often better to up shift when this happens in the upper part of the revs rather than lift the gas.

PhM
 
ExigeExcel
When I made teh transition to manual I just turned up the volume and listened to the engine.

Generally I find it quite easy to identify the upshift point by sound, atleast after a few shifts.
Click to expand...
I have NEVER used AT in ANY racing game. I too use the sound to mark my shift points. I might also recomend looking at theengine curve to see when to upshift and downshift. The best place to shift is where the power ends. You need to look at the dyno read-out to do this.

Hope this helps
 
Yeah, same here. I use sound to shift, up and down. Once you play MT for a bit, I think you'll be able to tell that the engine revs are lowering during braking, without looking at the tachometer, purely by sound. Same for upshifts. I learned MT outside of games, but I play GT4 too, and I can shift well.

And I have to point out one thing. For license tests, mission hall, or newly purchased cars that you have never driven, just test the rev limiter before you to get your best run, or hot lap in. Then restart the test or mission. Races aren't that critical of whether or not you intentional miss a shift to see the rev limiter point, so yeah.
 
I'm probably not going for Manual Transmission use because I seem to feel more comfortable with a steering wheel with a shifter knob. It can be anything like the Driving Force Pro or even that one model from Mad Catz which works for many of today's consoles. That's why I try to use a manual transmission in games at the arcade. My favorite racing game of all-time, "Super GT/SCUD Race," has two very interesting road courses on the Medium and Expert level. I usually use the Dodge Viper GTS-R or the McLaren F1 in the game. I normally practice finding the redline and the "blueline" (a term I use to describe the best RPM to downshift). For better or worse, I've sort of perfected my shifting technique.

Two sporty cars you can use to have beginner-level shifting experience are the Suzuki Cappuccino and the Mazda AZ-1. Since these are Kei cars, they don't go as fast. However, you can ride most courses flat out, which makes them fun. Shifting gets trickier with more powerful cars and powerful race cars. I've always wondered when was the right time to upshift when in Automatic, the rev limiter was getting abused. Try something like the TVR Tuscan Speed 6 or its Cerbera Speed 12 brotheren. Part of the challenge is to know when is the best time to shift up when in first or second gear while your ride is just revving at its highest. My advice then would be to (no offense) race the car in Automatic and learn when the game shifts the car for you, then make the according adjustments in your Manual session.

I hope this helps. My arcade experience should go well with GT experience, at least in terms of shifting. I would recommend playing the arcades for "San Francisco Rush (and its Rush the Rock variant)" and "Ferrari 355 Challenge" to practice your shifting technique away from GT. I'm going to warn you about Ferrari 355 Challenge. I raced with the paddle shift at the arcade, and it's actually tougher to use the paddle shift than the regular stick shift. So uh... race with caution. Anyhow, nice chatting with you. Do your best!
 
Since GT4 was my first Gran Turismo game and I only bought it in December. I decided to wait a while before i went to MT exclusively, basically after I did all of the licence tests & beginner hall.

Ever since then I have never used an automatic, I just don't even think about it anymore. I mean my car, it doesn't even have a tach, so I'm just so used to the engine noise I guess that's how im so comfortable with it in-game.
 
MT is pretty easy, I, however, never know when the best shifting point is. I usually just shift right before it hits the rev limiter, although i'm not sure if that's exactly the fastest point :/
 
Like others have said, practice practice practice, try not to look at the tacho, just listen to the engine. Integra type R like Duke suggested sounds like a great car to practice in. Sooner or later you wont even have to think about shifting you will be doing it automatically

I have always used MT only in all racing game I play but my nephew recently made the switch in GT4, he biggest problem is downshifting way too early and it just bounces off rev limiter like crazy, he is getting a lot better though.
 
You would be right, un_peacekeeper. I also would have accepted: "is that the really loud arcade game?" I'd say "hell f:censored:ing yeah!" May need some ear plugs before playing the game. I'd begin with the arcades then work with the PlayStations. The games are in no specific order and are based on games which I have used the Manual setup. Coincidentally, most or all of them are Sega games:

Super GT (SCUD Race in some places)
Daytona USA
Daytona USA 2: Battle on the Edge
NASCAR Arcade (by EA, distributed by Sega)
San Francisco Rush
" " " the Rock
Cruisin' USA
" World
Ferrari F355 Challenge

Manual Transmissions take practice. I'd recommend practice away from Gran Turismo. If you can do this in the arcades to perfect your technique, that's good. If you can do this in real life then apply your learnings in GT, even better. You have to learn using them at one point. Some games pretty much have no Automatic option. Only games I remember playing with some Manual-only features include:

Rage Racer (especially for cars past Level 4 Tuning like the Assaulto Gheppardo and Lizard Hijack)
Racer (a freeware PC racing game where you use the mouse to accelerate and your mouse keys as your transmission)
Tokyo Xtreme Racer 3 (one of the Wanderers in Nagoya requires you to have a FWD car with Manual setup. I used a Mitsubishi FTO in that game to beat that Wanderer in Nagoya)

I normally use Automatic, but I do practice my shifting at times, especially at arcades. Either arcades or if I can get a better steering wheel because my old two steering wheels (one for PS1 and Nintendo 64, then one for PC) are collecting a lot of dust. Practice your technique elsewhere before tackling GT. It helps to get some outside experience before translating that into button mashing and stick tilting.
 
Thirdeye
MT is pretty easy, I, however, never know when the best shifting point is. I usually just shift right before it hits the rev limiter, although i'm not sure if that's exactly the fastest point :/
Click to expand...

It helps to go to the tuning screen and scope out the powerband of the car beforehand. There are some cars (like the aforementioned Integra (very good advice, Duke)) that benefit from using the full rev range, while some cars make more power down low and get "soft" before you get to the redline (notably some of the small turbo cars)

Pay attention to how the car accelerates, too... if it's gaining speed too slowly... you're either above or below your effective power band.
 
If you want an idea of a car to try, I would recommend an lotus elise.

Keep it stock but take it round different tracks until you get to the Nurburgring and remember to change just before the redline.

Hope that helps. If it does please notify by the red tick.

Cheers

T4 GTR
 
I learned manual by driving a Pagani Zonda C12S 7.3 (with no assists and N2's) on the Nurburgring. Now I'm using it all the time. As everyone else said, listen to your engine to learn when to shift (though many times I look at the Tach.)
 
ive been using manual since gt2 after frsutratingly never being able to beat my cousin with AT in gt1!lol but neways the way i do it is the wen im accelerating i listen to the engine as it revs up to its limit, and then kwikly glance down at my tach to get the shift at decent rpm, unfortunately gt4 dusn't simulate the vibrations u get through your car wen ur nearing optimum shift RPM therefore jus a kiwk glance dusnt take ur focus away too much, if at all, from the road and lets u get a decent shift in. In very powerful cars where the first and second gears are ridiculously short, jus play it all by ear. If you're driving a car for the first time take a lap or so to get used to the ratios, it helps u predict shifts.
When your downshifting, and trying to get the Engine braking effect, you need to play it by ear because its better to focus on the corner than your tach. dont downshift too early or else the engine will bounce on the rev limiter and u will lose the engine braking. I normally shift down wen i reach about 4k rpm if need be.

Neway i hoped that helped..i know there was plenty of good advice on this thread jus thought id giv my 2 cents n i hope u read it.lol
 
Engine noise is my preferred method of shifting, which means having any music on can be problematic. But as with all things - practise is the key. Find a car you like driving, doesnt matter what it is or how fast it is - you'll have more fun if you like the car. Before you know it, you'll be shifting manually without really thinking about it. I never used auto until GT4 - now everytime I end up playing manual I keep tapping buttons trying to downshift!
 
i have used manual since gt4 and i fin it much more fun.
i read the start of this thread a couple of days and went in search of a good car.
whlist doing this i got a bit side tracked and started to tune a Ford Lighting pick up.
when a came to test drive it i find that you can spend a lot of time in the red without needing to change gear.

one track that i might recomend is the test corse. yes boring i know but turn the sound up dont try tolook at the dials at the bottom and just listen. i find that listening to the car is a good way to judge when to chnage.
and also the small flashing numbers that come up are a great help as is the small red light which u can always see in the corner of you eye
 
I used to use AT but then I decided I wanted manual. The way I got practice was by trying to pass all of the B-licences in manual. After that I never wanted to use automatic again.
 
Also an important thing to know is know your cars powerband.
Many cars power falls off at the top end, but you can usually run them up to the red line and then some without any significanct loss in acceleration, but many of the ealier cars mainly muscle cars run out of grunt far before the red line, let alone the rev limilter and need shifted before the red line. So that is something else you want to pay attention too, to maximise the benefits of using a manual transmission.
 
I think that everyone that has posted so far has pretty much said what I was going to. But here is some suggestions that I would like to make.

1. Get a used S2000 from the 2nd used car lot. It dosn't matter what kind or what the mileage is.
(personaly I prefer the type V, but thats just me)

2. Take it out for an oil change. You want the engine runing as well as it can be.

3. Go to one of the following tracks. Seattle, Autum Ring . . . Someplace short where you can pull a couple quick laps. The ring is a great course, but if you want to learn to drive a MT, pick a shorter course where you can get use to shifting while driving through certain turns, and not waiting 8+ minutes to try it again.

4. Set the car's aids to 0,0,1. A stock S2000 is pretty easy to handle w/ the aids off. The 1 on the tcs will keep you from spinning the tires to much untill you get use to controling the throttle.

5. Take 'er out and bounce the tack off the revlimiter a few times. Watch for the little red shift light to start flashing, and listen to how the engine winds up before it hits. When racing you do not want to bounce off the limiter. You want to shift before it hits the redline on the tack.

6. Take a couple slow laps. Don't worry about flying through the course. Just take the time to work on your shifting. Practice throttle control, breaking before downshifting. Always remember to brake first, then downshift to the gear that you want.

When you get comfortable, start to pick up the pace.

When you feel comfortable at that track, go to another one and practice. Try another car.

After a while it will feel like second nature, and you will wonder why you ever used an auto trans in the first place.
 

Latest Posts

Back