left888's Rigs Part 2

[Roryblack444]

Darren, I have to agree with Sonac, simply the best I've seen. I really like, when I zoom in, the gear indicator to the left of your tach (still love that tach, glad you included it in the rig).

Plus your knowledge of the technical is great and a valuable asset to us all here on GTP.

Will be coming to you for sure in the future for ideas for rig ideas and eventually iRacing.

Thanks for putting this up Darren, again an inspiration for us all here.

Bill
Roryblack444

ETA: really got into looking at your website too today, spectacular! Found peace and calmness as I was viewing, you are a visionary sir, peace.

 

[left888]

👍 Awesome setup Left, l have one of the 55in Sony you are using and I thought that was awesome! One day I might go all out like this, but space is always an issue

I am yet to venture into the realms of iRacing, hopefully soon as I was all ready to go then realized I need a copy of Windows 7 as OS/X Lion doesn't support XP in boot camp

thanks BNG,

If you are serious about your racing then iRacing is for you, if you are a causual gamer then it might not be for you. The best way to find out is to try one of the trial offers, 3 months for the price of 1.

Yeah that cockpit is crazy sick. Need a video!!! Do it

Thanks sandbox,

Apologies, I missed your comment from earlier. I could make a video but highly unlikely, perhaps by next fall for part 3.

 

[left888]

Very nice rig. Although I wouldn't like all the
bells and whistles personally though, but that's just my personal taste at the moment. I might just get a car iphone4 holder so I can put it on the T500 body and have a small dash of sorts, but that's it.
I unfortunately don't have the room nor the money to get 3 giant 55 inch televisions. I still need to sleep in my room that's just as big as yours seems to be on the pictures, maybe even smaller.
I do wonder about your speakers though... they seem too close for my taste. Especially if you crank it up and the house rattles. Just be careful you don't damage your ears as I am seriously afraid you will in the long run due to this.
I don't have my speakers close to my ears and can easily hear my rear speakers. I don't go past a quarter and that's already very loud, but then again I have computer speakers of 500w rms total. Anyone who knows the Logitech Z-560 set can testify they are loud. heh

Oh well... nice rig and the TV's are definitely a great addition. Although I would probably put them a bit closer towards myself if possible, or it could be they look far away on the photograph.

Thanks Christiaan;

I had this vision that I wanted a race car feel for my rig, raw and rough around the edges, just like a real race car has. There is little bells and whistles on my rig, to me bells and whistles suggest unneeded fluff. My rig has only the basic necessity's on it. A place for everything and everything in its place.

I am lucky owning my own home I have this dedicated room for my rig, it's not overly big but at 13' 6" x 26' it is roomy enough for racing and a seating area for my fans (lol)

Those speakers near the drivers head are only the rear surround channel and they are turned down just enough. The back speakers or "B" channel are the ones laying on the floor on each side of the sub woofer. I set it up this way so I can still hear the front speakers.

I do not want to move any closer to the HDTV's, they are over 13', do you realize how big that is? any closer and you would not be able to see side to side. I do think it is what you said, a trick of the image, I shot that at around 17mm.

A buttkicker on the pedals, now I've seen it all

They work awesome their, I use manual transmission and when I shift gears it slams the front frame and feels way cool.

 

[left888]

I think you have a misconception on Jeremy's guide, it is derived from the "telemetry" from iRacing, not the soundtrack. With all your tactile gear it still very much dependent on the audio track in game and are games using that many tracks to actually isolate each independent channel? I guessing that they don't, if they are a link would be appreciated.

The "Game Data Tactile" is telemetry and that's what Jeremy's guide is all about As far as I am aware console games are only using sound tracks. So you can use the pre out channel's or the LFE channel but you will be restricted to just those that are available. For my bass shakers I am using the pre out rear channel but it is very much dependent on the soundtrack. X-Sim's "Force Sender"is only used for a second PC's sound card if I understand it correctly. One can use a second sound card in your main PC or a second PC and "Force Sender" which is only a command, not a program. iRacing uses telemetry for its signal, X-Sim only facilitates this process.

I do like your idea of using separate pre out channels for independent soundtrack zones, I have3 zones and the pedal buttkicker rattles the front frame so well it feels like a gear slamming in the transmission while changing gears, it feels awesome. I actually did try changing my pre out from rear channel to front and there is no difference, perhaps with the Aura pucks you may experience a difference but the buttkickers had no different effect that I could discern.

The comment you made on my audio quality has me puzzled, did you not read where I stated my 7.1 A/V receiver is feed through the motherboard, the onboard sound is nowhere close to the quality I am using. A dedicated sound card would not make any difference. I have been an audiophile since 1972 and I know good sound when I hear it. One can also use a sound card for in game Environmental Audio Extensions (EAX) from Creative Technology for separate tactile zones but I would almost think too many zones will be sensory overload.

You ask for a link to X-Sim , there is one in Jeremy's guide. As far as your question on "have I ever used a digital dash" I remarked earlier on this, they are only as good as the software that drives them. Let me answer with a question, what software will drive them for consoles?

Right just to go over a few things...
The guide by "Jeremy Paterson" I have been talking about lately and looking to utilise the "Force Sender" data from games using its own controlled tactile. I have asked several weeks ago for some friends to look into it but heard nothing back yet. I do intend to myself at a later time to look into it.

However unlike "Jeremy Paterson" covers in his guide, several of us on the forums are going way beyond "Stereo Tactile" which he only covers.

It seems I have not seen anyone yet use a direct "Game Data Tactile" source and have it also combined with a multichannel "Surround Audio Tactile" configuration using multiple tactile channels. Importantly though having each method controlled and amplified independently should produce a very high end experience particularly with like yourself also utilising a subwoofer with the tactile.

"Jeremy Paterson" makes it clear in his guide that "Direct Game" & "Audio" tactile both have advantages and their own drawbacks as I expected so look forward to testing this in the future also.

I need to check with you as to what tactile you are using from "Force Sender" source compared to what tactile you are using via the "Audio" source.

Judging by your configuration I think their is room for a lot of improvement in your tactile experience but can only give advice if your willing to try different configurations. Also which such money invested in your setup then a dedicated quality soundcard and not onboard audio should be considered and will have a increase in the audio quality.

On your setup I would try based on audio tactile:

Seat Sides = "Front Stereo Audio" not surround channels.
Seat Underneath = BK as LFE
Pedals = BK as "Centre" channel not LFE

I recommend what you would do is have each tactile allocated a switchable input. This would allow you to change the input source easily and determine what tactile feels best either using "Audio Decoding" or "Game Data" alternatively a mix of both. Game data should be better than "Centre" but personally I would advise anyone doing tactile to incorporate a "switch" to be able to change source of input for different games or indeed consoles/PC as consoles of course cannot offer the "Game Data" tactile.


Questions:
1. Regards the digital displays, have you tried the one I linked or has anyone here? I am not saying yours isn't good, just for readers looking at alternatives.
2. Do you have a link for "Force Sender" or the software?



My Seat Tactile:
I will be using full directional effects.
Not a single feed/source or mega vibration some on the forums think it will be.

This allows road/track vibration via LFE, left right directional vibration, surround via cars behind and engine rev vibration all independently. Not all packed in as one LFE or combined stereo mono output that Buttkicker or common tactile brands only use.

Underneath:
4x BK Mini LFE (dual stereo front and back of seat)
1x BK Mini LFE "Centre" channel
1x BKA 300 "LFE" channel

Sides:
2x Clarke Tactile T209 "Surround" channels

Back:
1x Clarke Tactile T209 "Rear Surround" channel

I am eager to play around with "Game Data" tactile to determine how best to implement it.

 

[left888]

Thank you Bill for the kind words. This is the reason we share our rigs, to inspire others and to gain information from others. I'm sure with your work you see some very cool stuff and maybe you could incorporate that into a rig.

Darren, I have to agree with Sonac, simply the best I've seen. I really like, when I zoom in, the gear indicator to the left of your tach (still love that tach, glad you included it in the rig).

Plus your knowledge of the technical is great and a valuable asset to us all here on GTP.

Will be coming to you for sure in the future for ideas for rig ideas and eventually iRacing.

Thanks for putting this up Darren, again an inspiration for us all here.

Bill
Roryblack444

ETA: really got into looking at your website too today, spectacular! Found peace and calmness as I was viewing, you are a visionary sir, peace.

 

[HoiHman]

Great setup, wish i had the room for a permanent setup like that.

But for now i have to stick to my "office" setup with tv lift

Love the tripple 55" lcd's . Still i would sit a bit closer to them, like i do to with my 46" 55" 46" . In my opinion, having to realy turn your head for looking into the side screens adds to the immersion. I also started out with a bigger distance, but moved closer and closer.

I just joined iracing yesterday and i gonna invest some time in it the next three months. The problem for me that most off the time i can only race about an hour straight max.

So what's planned for part 3, full motion perhaps?

 

[BNGTracer]

thanks BNG,

If you are serious about your racing then iRacing is for you, if you are a causual gamer then it might not be for you. The best way to find out is to try one of the trial offers, 3 months for the price of 1.

I am quite serious about my sim racing, however time isn't always my friend I will definitely try it on a 3 for 1 basis and then go from there, Thanks for the tips Left, your knowledge and skills are most appreciated here on and I will continue to follow your rig's progress.

Thanks,

BNGT

 

[Mr Latte]

I think you have a misconception on Jeremy's guide, it is derived from the "telemetry" from iRacing, not the soundtrack. With all your tactile gear it still very much dependent on the audio track in game and are games using that many tracks to actually isolate each independent channel? I guessing that they don't, if they are a link would be appreciated.

No, sorry. I tried to explain I am fully aware as to what it is. I am not fully aware as to what the software allows regards using the telemetry. For instance does it allow independent output for "engine", "track", "collision" tactile feedback. Or is it all combined as one output? I have looked for a detailed guide on it but no luck. In the near future I will look into personally testing it.

The guide talks about mixing "Telemetry Tactile" with "Audio Tactile". He suggests both have limitations. My point is I personally want to combine "Telemetry Tactile" but use it combined with "Surround Multi Channel Tactile" not just "Stereo Tactile" that he talks about in his guide. Take things further, much further.

I am not referring to consoles as we both know they do not use "Telemetry Tactile". However for engine revs using the "Centre Channel Audio" particularly from Dolby Digital etc or even PLIIx decoding combined with a good equaliser can give rather good engine effects and control over them.

Perhaps you would not rather than go into more depth here on the thread but we can talk over PM if you wish.

For my bass shakers I am using the pre out rear channel but it is very much dependent on the soundtrack.

I actually did try changing my pre out from rear channel to front and there is no difference, perhaps with the Aura pucks you may experience a difference but the buttkickers had no different effect that I could discern.

Why would you use "Surround Channels" when you have your "Aura Pro" perfectly positioned for "Stereo Transitions". The surround decoding of whatever DSP or setting you use on your amplifer will not likely output the same sounds from the "Rear Channels" as the "Front Stereo Speakers".

I have helped over 20 people on these forums regards tactile and they all state how much better having stereo panning and directional effects is over using multiple mono tactile. Even people using multiple BK G2 models.

I do like your idea of using separate pre out channels for independent soundtrack zones, I have3 zones and the pedal buttkicker rattles the front frame so well it feels like a gear slamming in the transmission while changing gears, it feels awesome.

PM me sometime, we need to talk about how you are connecting everything and settings modes you use.

The comment you made on my audio quality has me puzzled, did you not read where I stated my 7.1 A/V receiver is feed through the motherboard, the onboard sound is nowhere close to the quality I am using. A dedicated sound card would not make any difference. I have been an audiophile since 1972 and I know good sound when I hear it. One can also use a sound card for in game Environmental Audio Extensions (EAX) from Creative Technology for separate tactile zones but I would almost think too many zones will be sensory overload.

If you are using your motherboard on-board audio, via digital output or multichannel 3.5mm, sorry that is a compromise to using a quality soundcard from a leading brand. You only have to research reviews and you will find onboard audio quality, distortion, dynamics can be improved by a quality soundcard.

Some "Receiver DSP" settings can also enchance or alter the "waveform" of the audio. While this may not be best for how the audio sounds, for tactile usage an altered or DSP enchanced source can activate the tactile better. I have found DPLIIx to be one of the best as it also seems to utilise the LFE better than some DTS Neo or DSP alternative modes. Furthermore some "7 Channel Stereo" modes for tactile response can be very good too. All depends on the amplifer/receiver used. Their are many ways of adjusting or altering a "Sound Source" to accomodate tactile better. This can all be done independently from settings and modes used for the actual speaker audio.

You ask for a link to X-Sim , there is one in Jeremy's guide. As far as your question on "have I ever used a digital dash" I remarked earlier on this, they are only as good as the software that drives them. Let me answer with a question, what software will drive them for consoles?

Well I was hoping to find a direct link to a download of the software. Will look into all this at a later time but thanks.

Again sorry, I didn't ask if you had used a "digital dash", I asked if you had tried the one I linked as it looked pretty damn good. Curious to hear from someone if it has issues. Also who mentioned consoles or even considering such with a console? I agree with you that having a functional switch box etc and real dials have their own appeal. I have ordered a "GT1-FVS " from Derek Speare and quite like the look of his new "Bent Rod GT" sequential shifter. Although I have to admit to also being attracted to the techno gadgetry. I will utilise an ipad 3 into my setup anyways for other usages too so think having a nice app for some games could be fun.

 

[tribolik]

You ask for a link to X-Sim , there is one in Jeremy's guide. As far as your question on "have I ever used a digital dash" I remarked earlier on this, they are only as good as the software that drives them. Let me answer with a question, what software will drive them for consoles?

Probably the same that will drive an analog one

 

[left888]

I am not fully aware as to what the software allows regards using the telemetry. For instance does it allow independent output for "engine", "track", "collision" tactile feedback. Or is it all combined as one output? I have looked for a detailed guide on it but no luck. In the near future I will look into personally testing it.

From what I have read the iRacing telemetry allows wheel speed, tire temps, ride heights, throttle, Brake, Clutch, engine, gearbox, suspension, etc .. Now whether it is combined in one channel output I don't know, the sure way to find out is for you to read iRacings SDK which I believe is available.

You said you are not referring to console tactility, from my understanding you are only race with consoles, has this changed?, have you moved up to PC racing and if so which titles? You will find iRacing does not use any music at all, we are only dealing with race sounds, cars, track and wind etc..

I use the surround channel for my bass shakers because only inches away is a buttkicker on LFE channel, so a subtle difference was in order for me which is just a personal preference. Mclaren electronic systems offer telemetry which is pretty complicated from what I have read but I have not seen it personally yet as well as iSpeed.

As I mentioned, I have 3 zones for iRacing and each zone works just as I envisioned them too. Perhaps once you get going on PC racing, maybe even iRacing you can test these telemetry systems and come up with a well designed zoned layout. I would like to see your progress in this, but for now I have my tactile system working just as I want. I have invested a tidy sum to this point in my rig and I just want to enjoy this for now. Any other upgrades will have to wait for now.

Again for my sound system, I am totally satisfied with it, case and point. The Ford GT, the engine revs, the transmission, wheels squealing etc.. all at decibel levels that rival the real race car sound. I do not need a EQ to change any levels. I have a professional Tapco 2200 EQ which I could implement but it is not required. As far as I am concerned DTS Neo or DSP alternative modes mean nothing with bass shakers or buttkickers. I might at some point add 2 more bass shakers but to be honest 3 zones work good for me.

I know there are a lot of people that use the digital dash's, they are relatively cheap and easy to implement but I never have used them or even like them in either my real vehicles or my Sim rig. As I mentioned with them, they are only as good as the coder who designed them, some are better detailed then others, it's something you can research and decide which one suits you best. For the analog gauges we were limited by the rev burner design from Symproject and they have projects in the works that will include a burner for fuel, water, oil gauges and others. The next few months we should see advancements in that area. In fact if you join iRacing you will see real race car drivers who are also engineers who design all sorts of systems that are incredible.

I do appreciate you taking the time to write out a well though out detailed questions and comments Mr Latte. I am very much interested in seeing your tactile journey takes you and your design for your rig, if you have a link for your rigs progress I would like to follow along.

 

[left888]

I am quite serious about my sim racing, however time isn't always my friend I will definitely try it on a 3 for 1 basis and then go from there, Thanks for the tips Left, your knowledge and skills are most appreciated here on and I will continue to follow your rig's progress.

Thanks,

BNGT

Thanks again for the compliments BNG, I really appreciate them. iRacing is time consuming at times. If you just want to come home from work and join a practice session for 30 minutes or so just to stay sharp or improve that's about what it takes.

Maybe just 5 or 10 hotlaps a evening later on and 1 or 2 races a week. Most races are 30 minutes or longer. Like anything else the more you put into it the more you get out of it.

 

[left888]

Great setup, wish i had the room for a permanent setup like that.

But for now i have to stick to my "office" setup with tv lift

Love the tripple 55" lcd's . Still i would sit a bit closer to them, like i do to with my 46" 55" 46" . In my opinion, having to realy turn your head for looking into the side screens adds to the immersion. I also started out with a bigger distance, but moved closer and closer.

I just joined iracing yesterday and i gonna invest some time in it the next three months. The problem for me that most off the time i can only race about an hour straight max.

So what's planned for part 3, full motion perhaps?

thanks HoiHman, I did see your rig and it is fantastic, I don't think I replied. I will revisit it again, my bad.

Superbike has plans in the works for 5 screens that wrap around and that would be something I would be interested in. As I mentioned earlier I only went with these big panels because of the fabulous deal I got on them, otherwise I thing about 36"-42" would suffice.

I am about as close as I can get, it is more of an optic anomaly the image I posted, it was shot at 17mm with a full frame camera.

If you can put in more time for iRacing and stick with it you will love it, it is simply the best Sim racer on the planet bar none.

AS far as part 3, well it will take more time and research to plan it out, ATM I am enjoying my work and just trying to improve my racecraft.

 

[Mr Latte]

From what I have read the iRacing telemetry allows wheel speed, tire temps, ride heights, throttle, Brake, Clutch, engine, gearbox, suspension, etc .. Now whether it is combined in one channel output I don't know, the sure way to find out is for you to read iRacings SDK which I believe is available.

You said you are not referring to console tactility, from my understanding you are only race with consoles, has this changed?, have you moved up to PC racing and if so which titles? You will find iRacing does not use any music at all, we are only dealing with race sounds, cars, track and wind etc..

I use the surround channel for my bass shakers because only inches away is a buttkicker on LFE channel, so a subtle difference was in order for me which is just a personal preference. Mclaren electronic systems offer telemetry which is pretty complicated from what I have read but I have not seen it personally yet as well as iSpeed.

As I mentioned, I have 3 zones for iRacing and each zone works just as I envisioned them too. Perhaps once you get going on PC racing, maybe even iRacing you can test these telemetry systems and come up with a well designed zoned layout. I would like to see your progress in this, but for now I have my tactile system working just as I want. I have invested a tidy sum to this point in my rig and I just want to enjoy this for now. Any other upgrades will have to wait for now.

Again for my sound system, I am totally satisfied with it, case and point. The Ford GT, the engine revs, the transmission, wheels squealing etc.. all at decibel levels that rival the real race car sound. I do not need a EQ to change any levels. I have a professional Tapco 2200 EQ which I could implement but it is not required. As far as I am concerned DTS Neo or DSP alternative modes mean nothing with bass shakers or buttkickers. I might at some point add 2 more bass shakers but to be honest 3 zones work good for me.

I know there are a lot of people that use the digital dash's, they are relatively cheap and easy to implement but I never have used them or even like them in either my real vehicles or my Sim rig. As I mentioned with them, they are only as good as the coder who designed them, some are better detailed then others, it's something you can research and decide which one suits you best. For the analog gauges we were limited by the rev burner design from Symproject and they have projects in the works that will include a burner for fuel, water, oil gauges and others. The next few months we should see advancements in that area. In fact if you join iRacing you will see real race car drivers who are also engineers who design all sorts of systems that are incredible.

I do appreciate you taking the time to write out a well though out detailed questions and comments Mr Latte. I am very much interested in seeing your tactile journey takes you and your design for your rig, if you have a link for your rigs progress I would like to follow along.

Thanks for taking the time to go over my points...

To be brief, pCARS has attracted me back to PC gaming. Recently just bought a new system (see sig). When I get more progress done with my ongoing room then I will be looking to use the PC for some games as well.

I still plan to use consoles too but I can see PC games offering more. I just wasn't too keen in getting back to all the driver, patch and usual headaches PC gaming brings.

Already X-fire looks like a minefield of options but I'd love to talk with somebody that has good experience with it and using tactile. How are you using the "telemetry tactile" on your configuration?

Regards the soundcards, the Asus brand do seem to be very good and popular. While they may not be relatively new (some 3 years old) To give you an idea many of their models use "Burr-Brown 1796 DAC's". While these are more common now that's the exact same that was used on say the Denon AVP-A1HDCI costing $7000. So at the time of its release a $200 soundcard was providing that same level of quality decoding. In many cases using the soundcard as the DAC and going with multichannel outputs for direct amplification could produce the best quality. Their seems to be a perception that using OPTICAL/DIGITAL is always the best option. This is not the case as quality soundcards can outperform the internal DAC's units used on many receivers. It also allows control of the audio via the PC not on the Amp/Receiver by going into a multichannel input only for amplification.

EAX apparently is now rather old and certainly fewer new games are using it.
If you did consider to ever change your audio card then currently I think one of the best for audio quality, is the Xonar Essence. It comes very highly regarded also for musical lovers and headphone users. Yet has an additional available daughter board for 7.1 too. See here. For headphone and quality conscious lovers their is also this

My own cockpit blog is now here but not much happening. It has become a complete room makeover as well as just a cockpit build now.

 

[left888]

pCARS has a long way to go and to be honest it needs a lot of work. I had high hopes that it was going to be a great Sim racer. Slightly Mad Studios seems to be turning it into another "Shift 2" game but hopefully I am wrong when the finish build comes out. ATM it is not all that playable IMO, since I run triple screens in SLI and CARS is not optimized for that as of yet.

I would really suggest iRacing, as pCARS is just alpha testing and will probably have a year or so left in developement/testing. iRacing is the real deal, no patches or things of that nature. Occasionally they do update it which is just the constant development. It is pure racing for every level. Road racing and oval racing, man take out the Riley Prototype and chew up the track at Seebring, it's totally wild.

I use nVidia video cards in SLI mode but the video card you have in your sig is a killer card and you will have no problem running Eyefinity with triple monitors. As for me using telemetry tactile, I'm not ATM. I had my 3 zone working long before Jeremy came out with his telemetry and X-Sim, I may try it one day. I have 3 or 4 older computers kicking around and probably that many sound cards as well.

DAC players as a stand alone unit have been out for a couple of years now, a friend of mine just bought one but they are only as good as the source. I have over 1000 CD's and when I rip them I convert them as they are, a "WAV"file, so there is no compression at all. I never ever rip to a compressed MP3. They were ok when hard drives were small. I now have ripped all of my CD's to several computers in the house and I think it is 7 or 8 computers networked together along with 4 PS3's and 3 Xbox's. I never said optical digital was the best, only the best for my solution. My stereo upstairs is a beast compared to the one connected to my rig downstairs. It is not the quality of the "A" class amp I use to own, the Sansui G-33000 along with a pair of Altec Lansing model-19 studio monitors, you can Google it and check the specs out and this was an amp going back 30-33 years or so (lol)

As of now I am not using a sound card on my racing rig, just on board output from the mobo to my 7.1 A/V receiver. You see for racing there really is no need to get the best quality. For iRacing there is no music, none, only race car and race track sounds and that's all that is needed IMO. To be honest I think iRacing is so far ahead of any Sim racer out their you need not look any farther, give it a try 3 months for the price of 1 for a trial run. I think I have 12-15 race games installed on my racing computer and none compare to iRacing but a word of caution, iRacing is not for everyone, you must be dedicated to improving your racecraft and have a passion for racing.

 

[Mr Latte]

Well yes Project Cars is still WIP. Of course it's far from being fully playable. I meant to say that it was the progress of the game that inspired my PC purchase not that it was ready to play just now.

A large part of my purchase was down to it's graphics it has to be said but also the idea it is being developed along with the community is a great aspect. Compare that to the development of say GT5, getting weekly builds seeing the progress, actually playing it as it happens and being able to directly talk with the developers I think is a fantastic approach to making a game.

Thier will of course be other racing games this year too and the ability to play Codemasters titles in Eyefinity etc is a bonus for going with the PC.

With iracing, part of the problem is it is a slow burner and requires constant practice and career development. I wish it done more for casual playing too but it has been several years since I last looked at it or played it so things could of changed. I am sure I will give it another go in the future.

Back to your rig....
What I find strange is you ask for comments and discussion on this really good setup you have. I have made some suggestions which I think would further improve your cockpit. Of course some things are down to personal taste. Actually not so sure though you have even agreed with any of them as each point made you seem to excuse in one way or another or don't seem prepared to try things suggested (tactile configuration) for example. You havn't fully explained these "Zones" you refer to and how they are used, talk about how PC tactile can be better with telemetry yet now say you haven't tried it?

Regards the audio oh come on man, their is every reason to use a good quality soundcard on your system, to improve the sound of whatever your playing or listening to. Particularly as you have decent speakers and sub already their that would make good use of it and a pretty good Av reciever. You may as well just rip to MP3 as your limiting the quality anyways. Im not arguing but your comment that onboard audio offers the same quality I kinda chuckled at.

If your willing to buy 1080p displays I bet you don't run them at 720p so why restrict your speaker and audio quality for the mere price of a decent audio card particularly if you are willing to spend serious money on "rev counters" and "button boxes"?

Sorry that part you have me confused a little on but maybe just down to how different people do different things.

 

[LogiForce]

pCARS has a long way to go and to be honest it needs a lot of work. I had high hopes that it was going to be a great Sim racer. Slightly Mad Studios seems to be turning it into another "Shift 2" game but hopefully I am wrong when the finish build comes out. ATM it is not all that playable IMO, since I run triple screens in SLI and CARS is not optimized for that as of yet.

I would really suggest iRacing, as pCARS is just alpha testing and will probably have a year or so left in developement/testing. iRacing is the real deal, no patches or things of that nature. Occasionally they do update it which is just the constant development. It is pure racing for every level. Road racing and oval racing, man take out the Riley Prototype and chew up the track at Seebring, it's totally wild.

I think you are wrong though with the direction, but I'd like to hear more about why you think it will be another Shift 2? Maybe you could pm me on it as to not let this thread go off topic.
Again what I like about pCARS if it's going to be a sim then it's the fact that you only have to pay one time for it. Cause to be honest, iRacing is extremely expensive especially when you're on a tight budget and like to play sim racers.

 

[left888]

Back to your rig....
What I find strange is you ask for comments and discussion on this really good setup you have. I have made some suggestions which I think would further improve your cockpit. Of course some things are down to personal taste.

Indeed I did ask for comments and suggestions but... I did not say I wanted to build a mr Latte rig nor did I ask you to take over my thread with your astute wisdom. thanks for your opinion.

I think you are wrong though with the direction, but I'd like to hear more about why you think it will be another Shift 2? Maybe you could pm me on it as to not let this thread go off topic.

Just my opinion Logi, only time will tell.

 

[Mr Latte]

As you said suggestions, of course you don't need to take them on-board however it's maybe nice to at least consider what someone is saying particularly if the point raised is valid to improving your cockpit experience or enjoyment.

It may still not be in your interest to do what they suggest, that's fine and sorry I wasted your time. It wasn't fault finding, I think what you have is great and what matters is that "you" enjoy it.

 

[left888]

With iracing, part of the problem is it is a slow burner and requires constant practice and career development. I wish it done more for casual playing too but it has been several years since I last looked at it or played it so things could of changed. I am sure I will give it another go in the future.

How many years has it been since you played iRacing? How about you provide your name at iRacing and we can have a look at your stats over their and we can discuss iRacings telemetry and it's audio output for cockpit tactile designs.

Back to your rig....
What I find strange is you ask for comments and discussion on this really good setup you have. I have made some suggestions which I think would further improve your cockpit. Of course some things are down to personal taste. Actually not so sure though you have even agreed with any of them as each point made you seem to excuse in one way or another or don't seem prepared to try things suggested (tactile configuration) for example. You havn't fully explained these "Zones" you refer to and how they are used, talk about how PC tactile can be better with telemetry yet now say you haven't tried it?

I will try and give you my 3 zones that I have designed and why I don't want to try your method which IMO is overkill. First off I purchased 2 Buttkicker Gamer 2's. One was placed on the backside of the pedal mount and the other was placed under the seat, both have independent amplifiers with built in crossovers.

I set the front buttkicker (1st zone) to receive lower frequencies of the the two. In doing this I would feel the bumps in the road and heavy hits from the curbs and contacts with walls cars and the like.

The seat buttkicker (2nd zone) I used a slightly higher frequencies so that it was not getting the heavy thuds like the front end does. This was of course used with the built in crossovers and a lot of trial and error. Here I wanted to pick up more of the road bumps yet still feeling heavy impacts from under the seat. Both the buttkickers get their source from the powered LFE channels of the Pioneer A/V Receiver.

The Aura bass shakers (3rd zone) were mounted on the outside lower seat area, these were placed there mainly because of opportunity and the lack of other areas to mount the rather heavy bass shakers too. I was pleasantly surprised of how well and effective they work. Here I can adjust their output but I use them for road bumps and other mid frequencies and as I mentioned to you before The Aura bass kickers are feed from that same A/V amp's pre out rear channel to a Dayton power amp Here with a built in low pass crossover set around 50-80Hz. I did experiment with the other pre out channels but the rear channel worked best for "iRacing" which is the "only" sim racer I use and you were informed of this at the beginning of my thread.

So what I find strange is that you keep on suggesting that I build "my cockpit" the way you want to build yours </scratches head>

However odd your proposal was, without even giving my 3 zone tactile cockpit which "is" working most excellent I might add. Here's what you suggested ...

On your setup I would try based on audio tactile:

Seat Sides = "Front Stereo Audio" not surround channels.
Seat Underneath = BK as LFE
Pedals = BK as "Centre" channel not LFE

Even after I suggested to you I was happy with "my" setup you insisted it should be designed like yours. OK, tell me what do you know of iRacings audio output and its telemetry which I plan on using for my (4th zone) In your reply to SageDavid at pCARS thread where I replied to his query on buttkickers you said you were going to use the program "force sender" Um "force sender" is not a program mr Latte, it's a command in the program X-Sim.

Getting back to your suggestion you only offered your opinion but never said why it would work better in iRacing over my proven tactile work. I too have helped over the years many, many people in all sorts of applications. You seem to think you are the only one that knows how this works and I question a lot of your theories for iRacing.

Regards the audio oh come on man, their is every reason to use a good quality soundcard on your system, to improve the sound of whatever your playing or listening to. Particularly as you have decent speakers and sub already their that would make good use of it and a pretty good Av reciever. You may as well just rip to MP3 as your limiting the quality anyways. Im not arguing but your comment that on board audio offers the same quality I kinda chuckled at.

If your willing to buy 1080p displays I bet you don't run them at 720p so why restrict your speaker and audio quality for the mere price of a decent audio card particularly if you are willing to spend serious money on "rev counters" and "button boxes"?

Sorry that part you have me confused a little on but maybe just down to how different people do different things.

This statement really confused me as well, again I am not using on board sound. I am using my Pioneer A/V receiver through my Asus P6 X58-E WS mobo. Purchasing a sound card for this application would be like flushing money down the toilet. The whole sound system I use for my rig is an older system from 5 or 6 years ago at least. The 5.1 sounds outputted from iRacing are only race sounds. Why on earth would I buy a sound card?

Any one that sees my rig in action are blown away from the sounds and sights. The Ford GT cranked up is so real you would think there is one in the house. The Corvette C6R is an Audiophiles dream, it literally rocks the house.

So once again mr Latte I ask you, why do I need a sound card? If you have nothing but money to throw at your rig I say all the power to you but please see why I designed and built my rig as I did. It turned out awesome and I am very proud of it.

 

[Mr Latte]

You were given suggestions on things to try certainly not told you must do this or that.
What is the problem or giving me attitude, when what we have here is someone looking in giving advice or possible help so you enjoy your cockpit even more than you already do.

I in no way want you to try and build something to what I am doing. I have helped and probably done more regards tactile stuff than most folk . Quite a few people on these and other forums are enjoying better tactile because of help I gave them. It is experimental and sometimes problems need to be overcome but the results are usually worth it in the end.

I do not think I need to state here what I have spent or been been doing regards tactile and testing many things with it for over 3 years. My own cockpit will speak for itself on that matter. I will indeed experiment with "Telemetry Tactile" but it will be combined with "Multichannel Tactile" as really both have advantages and shortfalls but both combined, well that's an interesting prospect.

Excuse me calling it "Force Sender" I have after all only recently got back to PC's and hadn't even downloaded X-Sim regarding the post you refer to.

A motherboard that uses "onboard" audio, typically on 95% of motherboards these will not perform as well as a dedicated quality proper soundcards can. You keep saying you are not using onboard audio when you are. You also make it out that the suggestion to consider a dedicated soundcard is preposterous, you have not been told you MUST get one, omg...

Furthermore why not actually search for some reviews or topics on the matter if you question my advice or think I am talking BS. You have good amplifer and speakers not some PC speaker package which likely wouldn't show as much gains in getting a dedicated card. You keep stating you are using digital out and decoding on your receiver, so what. For instance as comparison does that mean a $99 Blu Ray Player would sound just as good as a $299 or hell what about a $999 model if both used the same connection into identical receivers?

I even suggested it would be possible to use the card as the DAC as it has undoubtedly better DAC's than your aging Av Receiver and use the multichannel input instead of digital. Either way the card should also produce a cleaner more dynamic sound over your current method. You could have more control and options in the software and a dedicated card may help CPU performance as well. I did not however assume that "You" thought using OPTICAL/DIGITAL is always the best. I did however mention it is often such a perception people can have.

Your rig, your way. That is fine with me as I mentioned above already.
You can take suggestions and (possible) advice into consideration or create an argument from them which you seem to be preferring to do.

I wish you the best either way and appreciate again showing "Your Rig".

 

[gordie44]

I hope you two get your differences of opinion worked out soon so that the thread can become readable again (and i know youll still blame each other so youre both at fault for inciting each others pride and jealousy lol)

left888: great rig! you do know how to build em and it looks (and probably sounds) absolutely killer! im sure you have it exactly the way that your imagination sees fit. is that why you ask for suggestions? in case anyone takes one look and comes up with a creative idea that you might not have thought of? (thats what i would do if i had a great setup like yourself)

mrLatte: ive read much that you have written about tactile integration with sim rigs. you seem like you really know your stuff and you write as someone who has a fair amount of experience with trial and error. when i eventually bring tactile into my sim rig, i will definitely be asking for your suggestions and advice!

thank you both for contributing to this website and making it a great place to learn!

and for my NEUTRAL 2 cents on the analog/digital argument: Digital/optical will always transmit a cleaner signal due to less interference with light along fibre optics than with electricity through a copper cable. however the difference can be extremely negligible depending on both the quality of the signal being output as well as the speakers.

would i use an optical cable to connect my Sirius radio to my Bose system (assuming that was possible)? heck no, as Sirius only transmits at 32(!)kb/ps , and bose speakers are overpriced pieces of cheaply made paper ****. i dont know how good the signal coming from iRacing is, but again, the difference is probably negligible.

However, as someone who sells sound products to the uneducated public (speakers, sounddocks, headphones, etc). i can tell you that what you hear and how you process that is subjective and different to every person. if you asked a bunch of audiophiles, they could probably pick the 'best' speaker 98/100times in a blind test. whereas Susie Housewife tends to pick whatever is playing the Bose Demo track and old people seem like they want to buy the worst sounding ones all the time.

in conclusion: just use whatever makes you happy if it doesnt make you starve.

left888 (i am hazarding a suggestion here ): have you ever heard of Kimber Kable? its speaker wire with a twist (literally). supposed to be really amazing sound quality with it (except ive only ever heard it on $10000 speakers). the difference might be negligible, but audio is subjective, so you might enjoy the difference in quality if you can hear it

 

[Mr Latte]

I hope you two get your differences of opinion worked out soon so that the thread can become readable again (and i know youll still blame each other so youre both at fault for inciting each others pride and jealousy lol)

I have no issue at all, just do not think he needs to have the aggro in his comments over discussing possible options. Not once have I tried to act like a smarmy smart ass or enforcing he must do what I suggest. I have even pointed out that many things can be down to personal preference too.

He seems to see my points as challenges rather than just trying to have actual calm and interesting hardware related discussion on a sensible level.

So once again mr Latte I ask you, why do I need a sound card? If you have nothing but money to throw at your rig I say all the power to you but please see why I designed and built my rig as I did. It turned out awesome and I am very proud of it.

You don't actually need one.
For the 3rd time is was a suggestion to actually compliment your usage of good quality speakers and audio. Adding a good quality card would more than likely let your audio and even tactile experience improve. Individuals will always notice more/less than others, however having a technically superior product/solution is never usually a bad idea and for many folk they want a quality solution for that sake of having it. If you don't want to bother that is fine as on more than once stated was your call. However that does not mean the suggestion is rubbish or isn't actually correct. Some reading this may be looking advice and options and why/where/what the benefits may be if any.

Some quotes...


"ASUS Xonar Essence STX Conclusion

As the performance graphs show, the ASUS Xonar Essence STX is a high achiever. It blitzed all tests, bar one, where the Xonar Xense got a slight upper hand in frequency response. The Essence STX absolutely obliterated the onboard solution in all tests, which is a good sign considering the asking price."

"When compared to onboard sound, the Essence STX does a significantly better job. While the Realtek solution attenuates at frequencies north of 5K, the Essence holds out until 10K, and drops at a slower rate. The Xense does a better job but still emphasises frequencies above 10K."

"The onboard Realtek solution isn't even in the same league as the dedicated ASUS cards. There's about 30dB between them."

Consistent with previous results, the Realtek lags behind with a distortion level 123x that of the Essence STX, and 92.5x more than the Xense. The Xense has 1.33x the distortion of the Essence STX, giving the STX the winning result.

Review

 

[GTP_geoff]

Can a mod please calm Latte down? I find him very very stubborn and manipulative.

By all means Mr Latte control your own threads with an iron fist but I implore you not to show the same domineering attitude in somebody else's. You've managed to turn Left888's superb thread into a dirge.

Cool down brother.

On topic........ Left888, you've made me consider broadening my gaming into a PC setup as well as my GT5 love affair.

Awesome rig and excellent solutions 👍👍👍 unless of course you appear on the autism spectrum and nothing is ever good enough

 

[left888]

left888: great rig! you do know how to build em and it looks (and probably sounds) absolutely killer! im sure you have it exactly the way that your imagination sees fit. is that why you ask for suggestions? in case anyone takes one look and comes up with a creative idea that you might not have thought of? (thats what i would do if i had a great setup like yourself)

OK, gordie, I all ears. What's your suggestion?

 

[left888]

Can a mod please calm Latte down? I find him very very stubborn and manipulative.

By all means Mr Latte control your own threads with an iron fist but I implore you not to show the same domineering attitude in somebody else's. You've managed to turn Left888's superb thread into a dirge.

Cool down brother.

On topic........ Left888, you've made me consider broadening my gaming into a PC setup as well as my GT5 love affair.

Awesome rig and excellent solutions 👍👍👍 unless of course you appear on the autism spectrum and nothing is ever good enough

thank you geoff

 

[left888]

Mr Latte, please go hijack someone else's thread!