less weight or more horsepower ? which is better for online racing

  • Thread starter Thread starter godzidane
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depends, less weight means you have better power to weight ratio but you need enough power to equalise it. What car are you thinking of using?
 
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I've always reduced weight, then added power. If u add power first, you get more negative handling characteristics compared to weight reduction. By reducing the weight first, you enhance the inherent characteristics of the car and improve cornering. With less mass, tires will have more available grip and be able to handle greater cornering force.

"Simplify, then add lightness." -Colin Chapman, founder of Lotus
 
Add both power and lightness. Don't think the two are exclusive from each other. More power will be beneficial on high speed tracks and lightness will be beneficial on lower speed tracks with tight turns.

If you want to tune a well-rounded car, add power and reduce weight.
 
generationlost
Add both power and lightness. Don't think the two are exclusive from each other. More power will be beneficial on high speed tracks and lightness will be beneficial on lower speed tracks with tight turns.

If you want to tune a well-rounded car, add power and reduce weight.
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but the pp limits it lol

in the end all back to square 1
 
This reminds of another Top Gear episode...



Merc has loads of power and torque, but weighs quite a bit more than the Beemer and Audi. More BMW than Audi, whom have similar power figures. The other thing that seems to be lost in here is the chassis. A top notch setup can make gains where power/weight may let you down.

For this look at F1... RBR is great through turns, but usually gives up straight-line speed to the over-powerful Mercedes/Ferrari engines.




More or less, any one without the other is fairly useless. All three are needed to go anywhere fast.
 
HippieGiraffe
This reminds of another Top Gear episode...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaZExdTHHjY">YouTube Link</a>

Merc has loads of power and torque, but weighs quite a bit more than the Beemer and Audi. More BMW than Audi, whom have similar power figures. The other thing that seems to be lost in here is the chassis. A top notch setup can make gains where power/weight may let you down.

For this look at F1... RBR is great through turns, but usually gives up straight-line speed to the over-powerful Mercedes/Ferrari engines.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjcpIRWU6wI">YouTube Link</a>

More or less, any one without the other is fairly useless. All three are needed to go anywhere fast.
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Or the episode were they race a elise aginst a mustang v8. No need to tell you who won.....
 
BobbyBRAKEaNek
Less weight, the Elise will destroy anything at that pp.
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Its basically been proven that PP for PP certain cars outshine others. The Elise definitely falls into the 'overpowered' category. thats why so many 450 pp rooms disable MR

If you want to use a cheater car thats fine with me, youll probably win. but we all know who the real winner is (the people who DONT use the M3's, Elise, nsx proto, ect.)

As for the power vs weight debate, its entirely track dependent.. but on most tracks i have to perform a miracle to get my 800 kg car to win
 
The most efficient way to make a car perform better is to remove weight. Saying that though, there's little point removing all of that weight if you are just going to race down a highway.
 
Many of you seem to be missing the OP's point. He's looking for the trade off between weight and HP at a fixed PP level, not just the effects of one or the other.

There is no one size fits all answer. Much of it depends on the track and the car. I have found that in PP limited racing, most of my cars perform their best between 1150 and 1350 kgs. If you get much lighter than that, you give up too much horsepower and much heavier and the handling really suffers and negates the hp advantage you get from carrying all that extra weight.
 
This is an exstream exsample but, back in the days of prolouge I would run the Blitz at daytona on the lower PP (400-450 i think) with max power. This forced me to run the weight at maximum and put the crappiest tires on it.(normal hard i think it was) I would go from last to first before we even hit turn one then get passed by almost every one by then end of the turn, only to pass them all back and then some by mid straight. The only cara that would run consistantly with the blitz where the Elise's. Even then i would usually slowly pull away as they would pass me later and later each corner. However i tired the same set up and daytona road and got destroyed. So it really dose depend on the track.
 
godzidane
less weight or more horsepower ? which is better for online racing

in 500 pp ?

in 550 pp and above ?
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Less weight usually. It's hard to quantify, because given circumstances you may have better chances depending on the power requirement, but in a situation where increase power, or decrease weight like you say, beyond a reasonable power point (300 odd BHP) reducing weight is the best option imo.
 
Guess Im not good enough to take advantage of the Elise's cheater abilities. I can do great on short technical courses, but anything with high speed straights/bends and i get left behind. Kind of how Id imagine it would go in real life. That thing isnt easy to drive either, so it's not like it means you are talentless cause you use it. At least with a wheel and no assists anyways, never used the ds3 with GT5.

So I guess what Im getting at is... It depends on the track, A LOT.

A cheater car to me is one that is power limited to have a constant power output throughout its rpm range. There should be a limit to how much power you can cut. 75 - 80% power would probably be a good limit.
 
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I am no profesional tuner but I have always done all 3 weight reductions first then suspension. I have never tuned or driven an elise except that Top Gear challenge and totally bombed that only able to get bronze after 2 days of effort, so weight reduction on cars like that might be a mistake but for anything heavier I would definately do weight reduction first.
 
I have 2 Audi A6 Avants, one with all weight mods done, the other without. Both have the same HP.

The heavy beast is way better as the HP is over 900. It sticks to the road and corners a bit better, BUT a bit slower than the lighter one. The lighter one catches air on the slightest of bumps. It is way quicker, but its balls out scary to drive. My take is some cars are better with the stock weight or weight added.
 
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Weight reduction shouldnt help top end at all. Aerodynamics and power is what you worry about for top end, weight is for quicker acceleration and better handling.For example, you could have the same car with same power but weights differ by 500kg. The lighter car will get up to speed faster, but both cars will be limited to the same top speed by aerodynamic drag, because weight has little to do with cutting through the air.
 
JaySin85
Weight reduction shouldnt help top end at all. Aerodynamics and power is what you worry about for top end, weight is for quicker acceleration and better handling.For example, you could have the same car with same power but weights differ by 500kg. The lighter car will get up to speed faster, but both cars will be limited to the same top speed by aerodynamic drag, because weight has little to do with cutting through the air.
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Yes but also as the aerodynamic drag is a force opposing the car ie the downforce would make a car weigh more at top end, therefore if the car is lighter, the overall weight of the car is smaller at top end compared to a heavier one -requiring less power to make it go faster.
Having said that, there's not much difference really in the game, but less weight is definetly a pro on performance on a car.
 
On the B-Spec Rome course, I found that ADDING weight (which lowers PP) and upping the power works best on the cars and you get a 2-3 second faster lap, but it is a higher speed course.

Look at it this way, if it's a technical course (lotsa turns), reduce weight and power, if it's a high speed course, add weight and power.
 
I found its all about the track. Smaller to medium tracks you want as low weight as you can get since its about getting around the corner fast. Larger tracks it's all about power since you have the big straights to really use it.
 
I still fail to see how less weight will help with aerodynamic drag. More downforce means more "weight", but at the cost of aerodynamics, which is what slows you down. Sure the tires will probably have a slightly higher rolling resistance, but with equal downforce (equal everything besides weight) on both cars, you would still attain pretty much the exact same top speed.

Im going to test this out in the game, just to see what really happens in game. IRL, I think I have it right. Will do more research when I'm home though, just to be sure. Only time I would think top speed is effected by weight, is going up a hill or on improperly inflated tires.
 
Thanks guys for hitting all the nuts in bolts on weight. I just didn't back up my statement but you guys did a great job! LOL. Good on ya!
 
Since you wont ( actually cant) back up your statement, I will back up mine...

http://www.miata.net/sport/Physics/06-Speed.html

It pretty much says what I did. Top speed is affected very little by weight, it actually becomes a smaller factor(and even becomes an advantage for stability) as speed increases, because wind resistance (drag coefficient) increases exponentially with more speed.
 
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