- 29
- England
They made Sophy better! BOOST WEAK
- Thread starter Voodoovaj
- 132 comments
- 9,819 views
- 358
- Mount Vernon, WA
- esoterik_ex80
First thing I did was turn that off. It breaks my immersion.I'm a hater, yes. I hate that cheeky smile she does when I go off the track.
Other than that, she's been great so far.
- 4,208
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
The game also allows a 900pp car to be races against a 100pp car. is that a disadvantage?
20X fuel usage - Please remind me when PD set the fuel usage to 20X. I seem to have forgotten that event. If you want to actually make it fair. 20X tire wear too. Let's see how that works for you.
This was your post...
Hmm....no mention of 20x fuel usage. The adjustments are there for your entertainment, not to make disingenuous generalities based on unreasonable edge cases.
Honestly, some of the people in this community deserve less effort from PD
It can be turned off?
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- 10
- Texas
- NOIREVITA
Decided to do a 9-lap Gr.3 race around Suzuka with Balance of Performance turned on. Tyre wear or fuel consumption was disabled and Slipstream Strength was set to Real.
Started 6th out of 12th iirc? I overtook the lead car somewhere in sector 2 of lap 3 and aside from a rookie mistake which involved me overshooting one of the final corners of the track, I just chilled in the lead for the rest of the race.
Whilst I do enjoy Sophy and believe it's a massive improvement compared to the regular AI, to say that it's a S-ranked driver is far from the truth. Not once did I feel pressured by Sophy - it just sat behind me, which.. while it does move around a little more compared to before, it's still doing its usual 'conga line' behavior where it didn't really go for any overtakes against other Sophy AI drivers. It's better than the regular AI, sure, but it's not to the point where it's kicking my butt.
Oh, I almost forgot - yes, I did set the Boost option to Weak. I forgot to record a video. Whoopsie gravy!
Started 6th out of 12th iirc? I overtook the lead car somewhere in sector 2 of lap 3 and aside from a rookie mistake which involved me overshooting one of the final corners of the track, I just chilled in the lead for the rest of the race.
Whilst I do enjoy Sophy and believe it's a massive improvement compared to the regular AI, to say that it's a S-ranked driver is far from the truth. Not once did I feel pressured by Sophy - it just sat behind me, which.. while it does move around a little more compared to before, it's still doing its usual 'conga line' behavior where it didn't really go for any overtakes against other Sophy AI drivers. It's better than the regular AI, sure, but it's not to the point where it's kicking my butt.
Oh, I almost forgot - yes, I did set the Boost option to Weak. I forgot to record a video. Whoopsie gravy!
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- 358
- Mount Vernon, WA
- esoterik_ex80
Absolutely. Turn off the names over cars, and it goes bye bye. I've always had that feature turned off anyway, as I don't like floating names (or floating anything for that matter) over the cars. It breaks immersion. I certainly don't care if an AI is happy or sad that I'm passing them...lol
- 25
- United States
- 4,208
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
Yes, unfortunately, it isn't drag and drop so to speak. Especially with GR3. I've found that with GR3, I have to tune down to 700pp and slash the downforce. With all that, GR3 is the least entertaining type of race you can have. AS for "ranking", correct again, Sophy can be high DR B or mid DR A at the moment. It isn't allowed to do more than that yet.
I really encourage you to try pretty much anything other than GR3, or turn GR3 down force to minimum. Sophy, at the moment, seems to prefer mechanical grip to aero grip.
- 10
- Texas
- NOIREVITA
Yes sir - Professional difficulty was selected and I used Racing Hard tyres, so I was pretty much in the same playing field as Sophy. My bad for not mentioning it in my original post.
Despite what my Driver Rating says, I wouldn't say I'm a top split player. While I did spend a crap ton of time on Sport Mode (specifically the FIA championships, GR Supra GT Cup and Daily Races) back in Gran Turismo SPORT, I don't consider myself to be as quick as I was a few years ago.
Sounds good! I'll give your suggestions on the Gr.3 downforce a try.
- 25
- United States
- 4,208
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
Also, Tokyo seems to be the best Sophy track. I'm finding GR3 at Tokyo is BUG fun.
- 358
- Mount Vernon, WA
- esoterik_ex80
- 1,116
- United Kingdom
- jonoholland29
- JonoH29
The other thing about SOPHY is she knows where the track limits are and doesn’t go over them.
The problem is GT7 does not have a standard rule for what the track limits are and can be completely different even on the same circuit i.e. Interlagos
The problem is GT7 does not have a standard rule for what the track limits are and can be completely different even on the same circuit i.e. Interlagos
- 4,208
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
Actually it does. We know this because we cross over them. All four wheels need to be on track or you are out of bounds.
What we don't know is what Sophy is using to determine those limits. Common game AI pathfinding has been done with a 2 bit (black and white) map. An area is either a 1 (go) or 0 (no go). Is Sophy using a map like that? Or is Sophy braking and turning based on where testers brake and turn? Or is it both? Personally, I think it's both.
Dragon tail, as an example. The Chicane of Death. If I am a tester, this is a pain point. The fast lap is hammer down and slice across both curbs, but there's a very good chance that I will crash, which literally makes my job harder. That job being to check off the JIRA task "give Sophy pathfinding information with 100 laps of (track name)"...I'm guessing that it's 100 laps, I don't actually know, but you get the idea. They have to provide data where Sophy doesn't slam itself into the outside wall.
The efficient lap, the one where you definitely don't crash, and accomplish the job of giving Sophy pathfinding information, would be to slow down for the chicane, which is what Sophy does.
Same is true of Virage (before the Mulsanne Straight) at Le Mans. The fast path is slicing across the curbs and, just about, going off track before heading down the straight. The efficient, "I need to get this task checked off in JIRA" lap is to slow down and avoid time penalties.
Compare this to Tokyo, where you can't go off track because of the walls. There, Sophy taps the walls. You have to hit those walls pretty hard to trigger the penalty, so the testers can tap the walls all day long and check off those JIRA tasks at the end of the day.
This is consistent. The places where the fast lap takes you close to the penalty area, tend to be the places where Sophy slows down and takes the safer route. I mean, SOMEONE is training Sophy, and it isn't the community as far as I know.
- 358
- Mount Vernon, WA
- esoterik_ex80
Don't feel bad. What you have done is set up the most difficult scenario for a SOPHY race. Anytime they are ALL in the same identical car (with identical tune) as you, you're going to have a hard time. I had the same experience with a SOPHY race at Spa with a complete grid of identical Honda S800's on Racing Hards (around 600pp). I was handed my own @$$. As you said, I couldn't get near 19th place. A wake up call for sure.
- 43
- United States
Thanks. Just decided to buy 12 190 E Evolution II so I could paint them different colors. Added 2 89 M3 Sport Evolutions at the back to see what they could do. 14 cars total. PP on the Benz is 462.11 stock and the BMW is 466.56. All on stock tires. Started myself in tenth boost weak. Red Bull Ring 10 laps. 7x fuel and 7x tire wear. Pretty much gotta pit after lap 9. What a race. Worked my way up to 5th had to pit after lap 9 but the 4 in front only one pitted the rest stayed out. Several behind pitted too. Some didn’t. Ended up battling for 10th with a BMW in the last lap. The BMW didn’t corner as well as the Benz but had better speed on the straights. Came down to the last 2 corners. Unreal. I didn’t expect the Sophy cars to manage fuel in different ways. I’m convinced now.
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- 4,631
- Australia
- 1,324
- United Kingdom
- theufc33
Remember that the AI (regular and Sophy) will only use the vehicle default tyre compound or Racing: Hard if assigned, nothing else, no matter what compound you have on your car when you assign the AI that tyre.
The exception is Intermediate/Wets for cars that come by default with racing tyres, the AI will automatically equip Inters or Wets depending on the conditions, even if you’re doing a one-make race via the Select from Garage and you don’t have those tyres purchased for your car.
The 1973 BMW 3.0 CSL comes with Comfort: Medium by default, so unless your car has Racing: Hard tyres and you do a one make via the Select from Garage option, the AI will always only use the vehicle default tyres.
If you do a one-make race via the One-Make option in the custom race settings, the AI will use vehicle default tyres no matter what you have on your car, even if you have Racing: Hard tyres on your car.
If you do a one-make race via the Select from Garage option in the custom race settings, the AI will use vehicle default tyres or Racing: Hard if you have them on your car.
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- 350
- MGR
I ran some tests to try and quantify how the Boost Setting effects Sophy’s pace over the course of a short custom race. Specifically, how the player’s road position in relation to the leading Sophy AI car effects Sophy’s lap times.
I had previously created a one-make race with a full field of standard ’99 WRX STI (with different custom styles/liveries) and been racing them with the boost setting to weak. My anecdotal observations were Sophy’s car power was identical to mine unless I was leading the pack – at which point Sophy’s power would increase and not let me get away.
So I decided to test the extremes of the Sophy boost advantage/handicap by using the same WRX field but put myself in a Tomahawk.
Boost Strong: Sophy improved lap time by up to ~6% when trailing the player, but also dropped up to ~5% of pace when leading the player. If the player sits with Sophy she will maintain 100% pace across the race distance.
Boost Weak: Sophy maintains 100% pace regardless of how far she is ahead of the player. However if she falls behind, Sophy will unleash the most aggressive boost increase of all the boost modes (up to ~8%).
Boost Off: If Sophy falls behind, she will only improve by ~2-3% to catch up. But if she draws ahead Sophy will slow the most of any of the boost modes (more than 10%). However, if the player sits with Sophy, she will start the race at 100% pace (or possible slightly higher) but will slow over the course of the race by ~4%. This reduction in pace seems to apply to the entire Sophy field.
TL-DR
Boost Strong = Medium front and rear rubber band
Boost Weak = No front and strong rear rubber band
Boost Off = Strong front and weak rear rubber band, but Sophy also gets tired.
I had previously created a one-make race with a full field of standard ’99 WRX STI (with different custom styles/liveries) and been racing them with the boost setting to weak. My anecdotal observations were Sophy’s car power was identical to mine unless I was leading the pack – at which point Sophy’s power would increase and not let me get away.
So I decided to test the extremes of the Sophy boost advantage/handicap by using the same WRX field but put myself in a Tomahawk.
- One test scenario where I’m miles behind the field;
- One where I’m sitting in 2nd behind the leader;
- And one where I lead the field by miles;
Boost Strong: Sophy improved lap time by up to ~6% when trailing the player, but also dropped up to ~5% of pace when leading the player. If the player sits with Sophy she will maintain 100% pace across the race distance.
Boost Weak: Sophy maintains 100% pace regardless of how far she is ahead of the player. However if she falls behind, Sophy will unleash the most aggressive boost increase of all the boost modes (up to ~8%).
Boost Off: If Sophy falls behind, she will only improve by ~2-3% to catch up. But if she draws ahead Sophy will slow the most of any of the boost modes (more than 10%). However, if the player sits with Sophy, she will start the race at 100% pace (or possible slightly higher) but will slow over the course of the race by ~4%. This reduction in pace seems to apply to the entire Sophy field.
TL-DR
Boost Strong = Medium front and rear rubber band
Boost Weak = No front and strong rear rubber band
Boost Off = Strong front and weak rear rubber band, but Sophy also gets tired.
- 1,324
- United Kingdom
- theufc33
- 4,631
- Australia
It is winnable but not easy on Comfort Mediums, if I have set it up right. This is the same for Sophy as well as regular AI.
Edit: I will test this more. I suspect they are boosting out of corners, all the time. You can get a higher minimum corner speed, be on full throttle earlier, and still not be able to pass them no matter how long the straight is.
I have a higher minimum corner speed (80kmh vs 75kmh) and straighten up and get on full throttle before Sophy (at the apex vs ~10m after the apex). At the same point in the corner that Sophy was doing 75kmh, I was doing 86kmh yet the speed delta is just diminishing consistently after, and I can't even get ahead of the AI on the straight. This is using weak boost.
Weak Boost, is still the AI being boosted. It isn't Sophy picking better lines, it's just PD disguising the boost. Even when you are behind. Maybe it does this all the time, so when looking at the numbers it looks like no boost is being applied when behind, but it is - at least when I was in proximity to them.
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- 4,208
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
I can't remember where else you posted this, but your car as the front air dam, and sophy does not. In GT7 (at least in the current version) aerodynamics make a big difference. With that air dam in place, you should be losing speed up the hill more than sophy, so this finding is what is expected.
Now, if you do it again with the same car (exactly the same car) then there will be some good information.
Now, we can get up on get caught on who did what to who, but at the end of the day, I want entertainment from the AI and for it to FEEEEEEL real. I want it to feel like Sport Mode, without the childish punting. Isn't that what we all want?
Also, I'm appreciating the detail of this game more, as we dissect sophy. C'mon, if I told you this was Sport Mode, how could you dispute it? What is Sophy doing that is so egregious?
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- 4,631
- Australia
Here it is again with the aero part removed. Exactly the same result.
It doesn't feel like sport mode to me, because processional racing aside - you only really gain on the AI within the corner. In reality, with same cars, if you are a little bit better in the corners, you would carry the advantage of a better corner exit the whole way down the straight, by tenths of a second. And when they are boosted, you don't.
Just because it's more difficult, doesn't make it more real. And the whole reason I took these videos, is because it didn't look real (and I was right).
It's easily disputable if you know what you are looking for. There was a player who beat the aliens in the early days of GT Sport sport mode, and he had a grip bug where he just had way more grip than anyone else, despite his racing lines being nowhere near as good. So he ended up winning daily races by maybe 2 or 3 seconds against players with just immaculate, textbook racing lines. Eventually his account got patched (if you start impacting GT World Series results due to funny business it will get investigated), but if you know what you are looking for, then it's not too difficult to spot.
Also if you want to demonstrate the player experience of racing in any video, the cinematic camera is the worst camera you can pick.
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- 25
- United States
I'm confused. If you have a better exit, you are still not able to pass sophy on the straights? I've never seen this happen to me. If I have a better exit, I do carry the speed, and the delta decreases on straights. As always, boost weak and slip real.
- 4,208
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
Ya, I'm with you on this. The only time I have seen Sophy "boost" on a straight is with downforce differenes.
None the less, I feel people are splitting hairs. At the end of the day, I find it engaging...very engaging. Hey, I was a doubter for a LONG time. I played the Sophy quick races and I didn't see much benefit. Now, when you compare the same set up with each AI option, it's a night and day difference in immersion and challenge. So, I have changed my opinion on Sophy's value to the game.
- 25
- United States
Yeah, I hear you. I'm pretty happy with Sophy as is. It can be better, of course, but its current stage presents a nice and enjoyable challenge for the player. I really hope they continue to develop and improve, and please add more tracks to it. All tracks and layout would be a dream.
We need watkins glen, Fuji, and Kyoto ASAP.
- 4,631
- Australia
You have to have a cornering speed high enough to pass them immediately at the corner exit, otherwise you won't. In the video I at best pull alongside the AI because it's rubber banding to match my speed. Despite me having a higher cornering speed and getting on full throttle earlier.
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