Let's do some maths folks. aka help please.

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sViggy
the sVig
OK, so, they said it takes 6 months to make a premium car. I've been trying to work it out.

There are what, 220 premium cars?

6 x 220 = 1320.

So if it had been one guy working on them it would have taken him 1320 months, which is 110 years.

It's taken them 6 years. That's 72 months. There are 110(?) people at Polyphony.

Where you go from here I do not know.

I don't suppose anyone know how many people they actually had working on the premium cars?

I'm going to say it though. It doesn't take 6 months to do one car.

Erm, ok, someone else take over please..... :ouch:
 
It's better to tackle this the other way around.

Number of cars one person can model in 6 years:
6 months -> 1 car
72 months -> 12 cars

So for 220 cars they need 220/12 = 18.333 people
 
Well at a guess I'd say they got 20 to 30 people who are doing the 3D modelling - whether there's a specific car team and then an "everything else" team is anyone's guess.

But regardless of that, the 6 months isn't necessarily 6 months of pure 3D juggling - as I understand it they need to get the actual car and then proceed to take thousands of pictures, understand the drivetrain to model its performance and record the sounds of the car.

Getting that access from the manufacturer and then performing those tasks over a number of cars probably takes a long time.

Then there's the work of actually building it in game.

So "6 months" I would take as an average time - rather than 1 guy starts work and 6 months later of full time work the car is ready.

Also, some of the cars share a number of common design elements - so while each premium car is hand made and unique - you maybe be able to produce a number of similar premium cars quicker by sharing assets.

Rotor.
 
If it doesnt take 6 months to make a car how long does it take? You know very well it was more than one person working on premium cars
 
If it doesnt take 6 months to make a car how long does it take? You know very well it was more than one person working on premium cars

Well yes, obviously. I'm just saying if it took one guy 6 months to do a car then it would have taken him that long to do them all. Obviously they didn't just have one person working on them. So, if it did take 6 months to do one car, how many people did they have working on modelling the premiums?

That's what I'm trying to find out.

Forget my it doesn't take 6 months to do one car comment. I was already confused at that point.
 
Most likely it was less than 6 years. Probably around 4-5 years for the bulk of the cars. .5-1 year for planning, photo and detailing, and another .5-1 year for testing every car with the new physics engine and tracks.

Their 6 months may have included location shooting though, only PD can say.
 
Does it really matter how many were working on them? They also had people bringing the older cars up to standards, creating new tracks, redoing old tracks, creating the online engine, physics, weather, lighting and who knows what else.

There was a lot of time consuming work that went into this project to say the least.
 
I think 6 months per car is for one person. If that is correct then a team of six would do the car in one month.
 
If the game releases on Wednesday, and today is Monday, how many days to release ?

A. 0
B. 1
C. 2

No calculators allowed
 
All premium cars wouldn't take exactly the same amount of time. Take all the NASCARs, (4 Toyotas, 2 Fords & 5 Chevrolets) for example. They do one complete car, then the others are just a skin. That's 11 cars, yet they only have to model 3 complete cars, and just copy and paste logos on the rest.
 
What I take from the 6 months per car comment is that it takes 6 months worth of man hours to do one unique premium car, whether that is 1 man working for 6 months or 18 people working for just over 1 week or not i dont know, All I know is that a few of the cars would have been much easier to complete since they are almost the same as other cars. How many Nascars are there? And theyre all just the same 3 or 4 models of car?

I hope GT6 contains ONLY premium cars, and a lot less repeated Hondas and nissans (We dont need 19 S2000s)
 
Does it really matter how many were working on them? They also had people bringing the older cars up to standards, creating new tracks, redoing old tracks, creating the online engine, physics, weather, lighting and who knows what else.

There was a lot of time consuming work that went into this project to say the least.

Just killing time dude until I get the game whilst my mind is being niggled by the lack of premium Le Mans cars.
 
It's better to tackle this the other way around.

Number of cars one person can model in 6 years:
6 months -> 1 car
72 months -> 12 cars

So for 220 cars they need 220/12 = 18.333 people

but yeah the big thing is tho, there are other employees, that do the music/track creation/physics etc, I'd say that they're going to hire more people, and an educated guess would be that they don't want what happened this year to happen again.

I mean don't get me wrong, I think what we have in GT is an amazing thing. Standards may get some love in DLC packs later. As for the GT6 tho, I can honestly say that Kaz won't want what happened on November 2nd to happen again, as he said he wasn't too happy about that, I can honestly tell people consoles have about a 10 (ish) year life cycle. November 17, 2006 is when the PS3 came out in north america, we're going on 4 years, GT5 was started (est) about 5+ years ago on the PS2 as GT4 had ended and right as the PS3 rumors were starting GTHD started showing up before Gran Turismo Vision, if they do it right, they wont be releasing GT6 on the PS3, Kaz already mentioned frame rate slow downs with 16 cars on a track at once during the rain, I'm pretty sure for the development reasons and hardware (we need more Vram in the consoles these days with LCD/LED TV's demanding such a high quality picture it's taxing the video card) higher DPI/Contrast is a lot of wear and tear on the current PS3's hardware with these new LED/3dtv's that are out. It's pretty safe to bet that GT6 will be on the PS4, give or take GT6 started probably a little while ago, (they said they had started, they didn't say how far they got tho) but either way, even at minimum a 4-5 year project, we'll be looking at PS4 times, which is fine by me, it'll be much more refined and on a system that'll be even more powerful than the PS3.

If you look at GT6 from a marketing perspective, people seem to think that we'll be seeing GT6 on the PS3. I'm trying to figure out why they would even want to do that, and I don't see a reason. Bringing out another next gen game on a the current console that GT5 has pushed to its limits? especially a game that'll take another 4-5 years to make from now is PS4 territory, and I can tell you. We'll be greatly amazed. I'm surprised we got what we did out of GT5.

Sorry for the long rant lol I just figured I'd state what I think.
 
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Is the 110 people at Polyphony correct?

Apparently the game cost 60,million US$ to make...

10 million a year probably gets you about 90 or 100 people...

So 110 seems plausible. Not all of them working on modelling.
 
OK, so, they said it takes 6 months to make a premium car. I've been trying to work it out.

There are what, 220 premium cars?

6 x 220 = 1320.

So if it had been one guy working on them it would have taken him 1320 months, which is 110 years.

It's taken them 6 years. That's 72 months. There are 110(?) people at Polyphony.

Where you go from here I do not know.

I don't suppose anyone know how many people they actually had working on the premium cars?

I'm going to say it though. It doesn't take 6 months to do one car.

Erm, ok, someone else take over please..... :ouch:


They said UP TO 6 months, that could mean 2 months for some and 6 months for others. But really though, when you do that math you should count all duplicate cars as a single one. Some cars have only slightly modified body of something already in the game.
 
In terms of GT6 - I think this gen with DLC capabilities and also the handling of GT5P Spec upgrades, we may not see a GT6 on PS3.

I hope that PD release some upgrades and DLC and if it's priced the same as the GT5P Specs (i.e. free :) ) then even better.

So perhaps this is the gen where we get only one GT release...

The question then is how long until we get the DLCs? Given the car modelling timescales, we may have quite a wait for anything substantial, but I remember a few days ago a quote from Kaz about whether a car (Honda CRV?) would be "in time" for GT5 release.... Does that mean they're still doing work and we may get a DLC pack?

Rotor.
 
It's obvious the math doesn't work out. They should have been able to model the surface of the earth in this amount of time. Clearly whats going on here is that PD is a front for a super secret international assassination organistion. I've worked it out, every delay coincides perfectly with a political assasination or attempt on a political figure.

I'm cancelling my preorder and joining the fight!
 
Oh I'd actually bet my house on getting DLC for the game. You just know there will be some. They've probably held some premiums back just for it. I doubt we'll have to wait 6 months for some premium cars in DLC.
 
All premium cars wouldn't take exactly the same amount of time. Take all the NASCARs, (4 Toyotas, 2 Fords & 5 Chevrolets) for example. They do one complete car, then the others are just a skin. That's 11 cars, yet they only have to model 3 complete cars, and just copy and paste logos on the rest.

Why couldn't they have done that (if they did indeed do it) to the Skylines and other cars which are pretty much all the same just minor variations, there would be alot more premiums if they did do that.
 
If you look at GT6 from a marketing perspective, people seem to think that we'll be seeing GT6 on the PS3. I'm trying to figure out why they would even want to do that, and I don't see a reason. Bringing out another next gen game on a the current console that GT5 has pushed to its limits? especially a game that'll take another 4-5 years to make from now is PS4 territory, and I can tell you. We'll be greatly amazed. I'm surprised we got what we did out of GT5.

GT6 will be on PS3 and will come out 2012, 2013 christmas latest. Why? Two reasons. One, PD said they have started working on GT6; they are either lying or they have started working on the PS3 platform. Two, GT6 will be an expansion on GT5. More content, some polish on visuals and sound.
GT5 95% percent will sell very well, around the 10 million mark. In the 5% case it does not, is the only reason we won't see another GT on PS3.
 
Why couldn't they have done that (if they did indeed do it) to the Skylines and other cars which are pretty much all the same just minor variations, there would be alot more premiums if they did do that.

They do what they can with the modeling, if they are similar, they just take the other model and edit off of it, or vice versa, the R34 example, those we're probably the easiest ones to do, because of slight variation, they wouldn't have much to do on those but add an Apex-i exhaust on this one with a different sound file, and lower the suspension etc. Believe me when I say the skyline list was one of the easier in their department, and since there are so many of them and they have a high appreciation for them, yeah, there's a lot of em in the game lol

GT6 will be on PS3 and will come out 2012, 2013 christmas latest. Why? Two reasons. One, PD said they have started working on GT6; they are either lying or they have started working on the PS3 platform. Two, GT6 will be an expansion on GT5. More content, some polish on visuals and sound.
GT5 95% percent will sell very well, around the 10 million mark. In the 5% case it does not, is the only reason we won't see another GT on PS3.

GT5 has already taxed the PS3 to it's limits, kaz already stated frame rate dropping on the PS3, there is no way to "work on the PS3" you can do firmware updates, but you can't fix the 256mb of Vram the RSX has, Sure it's fast, but speed can only do so much. I'll explain a little about PS3's hardware without getting too techy, I've been doing computer science for 19 years, started Qbasic when I was 9 years old. And I have been doing hardware for a long time, I'm not boasting, there are others that know more than me (this is something you come to learn in the computer science field, and in all fields, some know more than you, and you share knowledge). Anyways so on to the PS3, The PS3's Cell CPU is actually great, it has 8 SPE's, 1 reserved for the console to run the XMB and other small tasking things on, and the rest of them are used by the developers for the games, the cell CPU can feed the RSX graphics card it's frame rate it needs, but when the card itself can't handle it anymore that's when it becomes a different story, kaz has already said that the PS3 has been hit to it's limit with GT5. There is no pushing the PS3 any further, this game took 5 1/2 years to make, we wont be seeing a new "gran turismo" in 1-2 years. this isn't EA, this is PD and Kaz, gran turismo games were never released in a year or 2, That's why we get such amazing games from them.

We saw 2 gran turismo's on PS2. the dates were 4 years from each other

Gran Turismo 3 - A Spec July 10, 2001 in North America on the Playstation 2
Gran Turismo 4 February 22, 2005 in North America on the PlayStation 2

that was a 4 year difference, and only 1 year before the PS3 came out.

Anyways back on topic of hardware, the way how Video Rendering devices work are, when you have a device that is giving data to a TV, a lot of things are at hand, resolution, color, dpi, contrast. the higher these figures, the harder it's going to tax the hardware. We have had a HUGE jump in what LCD/LED TV's can do since the PS3 came out, 3d wasn't around, LED TV's weren't around, TV's in 1080p (Companies started offering 1080p in 2005), and pure 1080p games JUST started coming out on the PS3. When the PS3 first came out 1080p was just a new thing, now all these TV's are getting MUCH better quality, and the games are starting to use even greater quality, put the 2 together and you get a very taxed machine. That's why GT5 will have dropped frame rates in the rain with 16 players, He mentioned that, he said it won't be all the time but it will. It's still the fact it's happening, that's the result of the limit of the PS3 and the devices it's meant to be used on. I personally don't see a GT6 on the PS3, when they can take the premium models they already have, save the data on those, build the standards up (and add in what they want or take out what they don't want) and build them up to GT6 standards and then they'll have minimal work to do on the premiums that are already there and see what the new engine in the PS4 is capable of doing. If you don't think PS4 is in development, well there's a 90% chance it is, we don't know about it. Consoles take as long as GT5 does to make, they aren't something spiced up in a year, Just the Cell CPU was a 4 year, 400 million dollar project for the PS3. So they'll take just as long developing a new one for the PS4. 4-5 years from now (like i said) It just adds up to me is all.

I see this in my head

4-5 years to develop a new console
PS3 hit it's max with GT5
4-5 years to make another PD game
all ends up adding up to PS4.

That's just me.

Edit : also read this

http://www.1up.com/news/sony-guidelines-limit-3d-ps3

from a marketing perspective, they are having to limit the PS3's 3d capabilities to 720p, this is the 1080p LED/3DTV era. You can't miss it, all movies are in 3D now, they are making a 3DS. You'll see what I mean eventually.

they put in 3d in GT5, if it's so taxing on the system, and 3d being a new feature they want to implement on the GT series, why would they bring GT6 out on a system that's currently unable to handle what they'd want for GT6?

"Sony's Simon Benson explained during a 3D demo at the Develop Conference this week that their guidelines prohibit 3D games from being portrayed in the highest resolution, as it wouldn't allow for a smooth 60-frames-per-second. This means that even games that run natively in 1080p (like Super Stardust HD) will still be locked in at 720p in 3D".

"This limitation isn't very surprising, as the nature of producing a 3D image requires rendering two different images of the game at the same time. And in fact, the PS3 isn't the only 3D games platform that has to make some visual sacrifices to achieve the effect"
 
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The math isnt going to work here. There are just too many unknowns. Were the teams able to dedicate 100% of time to modeling cars? Did they get pulled off to work on other parts of the game(Modeling tracks), other games like Prologue and GTPSP or perhaps working on demo builds? We dont know how large the team was, was it a constant number or did it start small and inflate as needed?
 
I do have one question about the premiums that are in GT5 and were in GT5P. Have they actually improved the interiors etc of the cars that have come over from GT5P? They're not just all the same are they?
 
That 6 months per car remark is probably very casual comment. If you assume a car has to go through various phases, photographs, modelling, physics, testing, those are likely done by different groups in the company and moving around between them can chew up a lot of time. That might take start to finish 6 months but not necessarily full out single man the whole time. (nor can you assume 6 man months = 1 month for 6 men, software doesn't work like that :)) In short it's probably way too vague a comment to actually calculate how much time they spent on cars, or would need to add another X cars. :)
 
GT6 could easily be on PS3. It shouldn't take too long either since the graphics engine and physics are already there. Seems like all they'd need to do is add more cars, tracks, and features(livery editor, improved course maker, etc). They've spent so much time figuring out the PS3's hardware that to jump straight into PS4 would be a huge waste of their past efforts. There's so much they can reuse for GT6 and I think the time taken to model the cars and tracks is the only real concern(that and maybe the space on a bluray disc). That would only require hiring some more modelers though. They really need to focus their efforts on specific improvements this time instead of trying to do everything, which takes forever and a day. More cars, more tracks, more features, keep the same graphics, and slap the GT6 label on it. I'd much rather have that than pay for tons of downloadable content as some people are suggesting they do.
 
GT6 will be on PS3 and will come out 2012, 2013 christmas latest. Why? Two reasons. One, PD said they have started working on GT6; they are either lying or they have started working on the PS3 platform. Two, GT6 will be an expansion on GT5. More content, some polish on visuals and sound.
GT5 95% percent will sell very well, around the 10 million mark. In the 5% case it does not, is the only reason we won't see another GT on PS3.

I agree there will be a GT6 but not for the reasons you stated.

There's a very simple reason why they will do that: profit.

It's clear that the sales of GT5 will not remain at a very high level over time, even with DLC and platinum release.

So for them to make more money, they need to bring out something "fresh" and "new" =============>
Gran Turismo 6

Here's the plan:
phase 1) release GT6
phase 2) ??????
phase 3) profit
 
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