Lets talk SUV's

[JCE]

Getting a saloon car is all but out. I want something with more space and bigger. Now, the only SUV I was considering was the Infiniti FX35 and the Ford Expedition. However, after driving a few SUVs lately on my hunt for a new car I'm left with a couple of burning questions.

The data.

What I've driven so far:

• Toyota Sequioa (granted it was the new one)
• Toyota 4runner
• Ford Edge
• Ford Explorer
• Ford Expedition (EL)
• Infiniti FX35
• Nissan Pathfinder (Armada)

Highlights:

Toyota Sequoia = Extremely good road manners and handling for such a large beast. Very good engine (381bhp 5.7L V8, 0-60mph in 6.7s), and makes all the right noises. Very comfortable and has a good interior quality feel. Was pleasantly surprised on how awsome it actually was from every angle. The 2008+ models are very good looking too. If I can get a 2008 model with the 5.7L in my price range I'd be hard pressed to not get this over the FX or Edge. I really do love this thing, and it's from a car company I do not like as a whole. Odd...

Toyota 4runner = Not as impressed with anything I just mentioned above. Everything is a couple of ticks down from the Sequoia. Granted it was less money new...but pre-owned the prices are close enough. I was left a bit "meh" and feeling empty really. Too bad because it looks very good too.

Ford Edge = Great handling car, easily the 2nd best behind the FX35. Very good and very strong engine. Interior was good and it was comfortable. Downside is it wasn't "sporty" feeling enough and the engine didn't make a noise that I'd prefer. I want something manly (*see Sequoia or Expedition). I'd have to get the chrome grille painted body color and I'd have to get at least a good exhaust put on it otherwise I'd be bored without any stimulus. Odd really because it isn't slow but without the atmosphere of speed it feels it.

Ford Expedition = We have the best all-rounder here. Does everything as good as the Sequoia except for one "tiny" item...it is 2 seconds slower to 60mph at 6.7s for the Toyota and 8.7s for the Expedition. Acceleration is important in my choice actually. I'd literally have to have it upgraded at the dealer before purchasing it and that adds at least $4,000-5,000 to the price for a supercharger or some other upgrades. Thus puts this out of my price range. Sad really due to my overwhelming Ford bias.

Ford Explorer = Does everything well enough to get on my list. It is like the 4runner compared to the Sequoia when this and the Expedition are lined up. The downside is the Explorer feels less stable in the handling department.

Infiniti FX35 = Still the daddy on my list. Is literally 100% perfect in every concievable way. The only problem isn't with the car, it is with the availability of the year, mileage and price of the vehicles out there. I'm picky about my car color and there are only a couple of colors I want. Hell, I could get lucky and find that Sapphire FX45 I've always wanted. Doubtful...saw only one within 200 miles a few months ago.

Nissan Pathfinder (Armada) = A decent all rounder, however, I'm not a fan of the way it looks on the outside or inside compared to these others. Sitting in the Pathfinder and then sitting in the Sequoia or Edge is like going back in time 10 years. And that's not even counting the Infiniti which trumps them all on interior style and feel. Good engine, and while not good looking the seats are comfortable. This is my last choice really. I'd almost rather get a Ford Explorer.

The wild card on this discussion is the Subaru Forester XT (might as well call it an STI). If I find a good low mileage one to test drive it might make this decision harder. It is one fast SOB, and I really mean it. 0-60 in less than 5.5s is no joke. A couple of upgrades for not much money and it gets less than 5. Looks good, comfortable enough in the front and a decent interior layout make it ok. There are a few downsides that are huge. The rear seat room is terrible, the interior while good looking doesn't feel like a quality product and of course the big one to me is the potential repair costs on the AWD system as well as the turbo engine. Those aren't cheap. I'm not sold on the reliability of this product actually and that's the scary part. I will be getting a huge extra warranty with whatever I purchase but that only lasts a few years...

Yes, all of this is my fault but I need to live with this as the kid and grocery hauler for years to come. I'm sticking with something for the long haul. This means I will make a decision on something I WANT, but, at this point I just need the stimulating discussion that this web forum provides to help me make that decision.

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QUESTION #1: Of these using NO bias what are the pros and cons that you can think of each of these?

QUESTION #2: Is AWD/4WD vs FWD/RWD actually something I should consider?

 

[freedomweasel]

I've driven in an XT, and I regularly drive my fiance's Forester, just a regular XS. They may not look super nice in the interior but they great cars and even XS is reasonably fun to drive. The rear seat isn't enormous, but the hatch space is big and there is plenty of room for both of us, a 50lb dog and all of our stuff for long weekends.

I don't have much experience at all with any of the others, but every time I see an Inifiniti I think it looks pretty sweet.

edit: If I were to get an SUV there is no way I'd get one that wasn't AWD. Also, I'd look at wagons unless you absolutely must have the extra space and ground clearance.

 

[Philly]

I don't really know why you're scared of the Subaru. It looks like you don't know too much about it so here goes.

It's basically a WRX with a lift kit. Should handle well and, like you said, goes like stink. With the huge WRX community out there, aftermarket parts should be easily available. It has the same ~225 hp engine as the WRX.

You shouldn't be scared of the reliability. It's a Subaru. They will run as long as you take care of them. I can think of no reason that you should be concerned about it's reliability unless you somehow find one that was owned by some kid or something.

Also, they look completely awesome in blue with the STI wheels in the XT Sports trim.

My question: Have you considered wagons? The Acura TSX, BMW 328 and Audi A4 are going to give you a lot of utility and still have the road manners that you for some reason appear to be looking for in an SUV. Look for an Outback XT, although they can be hard to find with low miles. Plus, those can be had with a manual. You're also going to get much better fuel mileage with a wagon.

 

[JCE]

I've driven in an XT, and I regularly drive my fiance's Forester, just a regular XS. They may not look super nice in the interior but they great cars and even XS is reasonably fun to drive. The rear seat isn't enormous, but the hatch space is big and there is plenty of room for both of us, a 50lb dog and all of our stuff for long weekends.

I don't have much experience at all with any of the others, but every time I see an Inifiniti I think it looks pretty sweet.

edit: If I were to get an SUV there is no way I'd get one that wasn't AWD. Also, I'd look at wagons unless you absolutely must have the extra space and ground clearance.

The rear seat space is a bit important. I want to make sure there is enough space for 2 adults, or a bunch of childrens. If I sit back there and I'm not comfortable then it is a no-go regardless of speed. Space first speed second.

I don't really know why you're scared of the Subaru. It looks like you don't know too much about it so here goes.

It's basically a WRX with a lift kit. Should handle well and, like you said, goes like stink. With the huge WRX community out there, aftermarket parts should be easily available. It has the same ~225 hp engine as the WRX.

You shouldn't be scared of the reliability. It's a Subaru. They will run as long as you take care of them. I can think of no reason that you should be concerned about it's reliability unless you somehow find one that was owned by some kid or something.

Also, they look completely awesome in blue with the STI wheels in the XT Sports trim.

My question: Have you considered wagons? The Acura TSX, BMW 328 and Audi A4 are going to give you a lot of utility and still have the road manners that you for some reason appear to be looking for in an SUV. Look for an Outback XT, although they can be hard to find with low miles. Plus, those can be had with a manual. You're also going to get much better fuel mileage with a wagon.

I do agree that the XT looks best in that blue like in the picture. I'm just not as familiar with Subarus to know more about it's reliability. I just "hear" things around the office and etc. Good to know they can be ok.

Wagons are a no-go. The future wife doesn't like them, not even the Magnum SRT-8 (*edit* actually this one she likes somewhat). Plus, we both want something bigger as well. She'll be driving this 50% of the time so the need is to get something she likes too. I'm interested about hearing about the others. I know everyone is probably going to pick the Subaru just because of the power--I want to hear about everything else. I already know it's fast. Also, don't care about gas mileage. More about reliability and practicality with a huge side of speed.

In 5 years or so when the future wife sells her RX-8 she will likely get a Dodge Ram Heavy Duty Mega Cab so that might free me up to trade this SUV in for something else--and that would be my choice at that point. The Ram will be the family vehicle if that happens and thus we are no longer in need for an SUV. That's my logic anyway.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Do you really need enough cargo space to warrant the purchase of a huge gas guzzler? Also, the Nissan Pathfinder and Armada are two separate vehicles.

My Picks:

• Subaru Forester XT
• Nissan Pathfinder V6
• Toyota Rav4 Sport
• Ford Edge

 

[freedomweasel]

The rear seat space is a bit important. I want to make sure there is enough space for 2 adults, or a bunch of childrens. If I sit back there and I'm not comfortable then it is a no-go regardless of speed. Space first speed second.

How big are your kids going to be? Unless you plan on having more than 3 kids in the car the Forester's back seat is plenty big for a kid. I would gladly sit in the back of ours.

It just seems like there may options that would have comparable space but not be quite so enormous and guzzle less fuel, as well as be more fun to drive.

 

[Cale]

Ford Flex Ecoboost.

[/thread]

 

[JCE]

Do you really need enough cargo space to warrant the purchase of a huge gas guzzler? Also, the Nissan Pathfinder and Armada are two separate vehicles.

My Picks:

• Subaru Forester XT
• Nissan Pathfinder V6
• Toyota Rav4 Sport
• Ford Edge

Well technically the Pathfinder was called the Pathfinder Armada albeit for a very short time. They dropped the name Pathfinder Armada so Nissan can bring out the actual Armada. That's a moot point really. And to answer your question yes we would use the cargo space of a larger vehicle. We just signed a contract to buy a 3,000 sq/ft house that will be built and completed in September. We need to buy furniture, landscaping and etc so we would actually USE the utility of this vehicle. Shocking that someone uses it for what it's designed for! UTILITY! Let's also not forget whatever goodies for my Camaro project that needs to he hauled around. Which includes the actual towing of the car to and from the paint/body shop and etc.

How big are your kids going to be? Unless you plan on having more than 3 kids in the car the Forester's back seat is plenty big for a kid. I would gladly sit in the back of ours.

It just seems like there may options that would have comparable space but not be quite so enormous and guzzle less fuel, as well as be more fun to drive.

It's not the size of the kids it's the kids plus everything else. Gas mileage is meaningless to me so that's not really a selling point. Space is a premium I'd like to have. Space first speed second with afford-ability thrown in. I'm sticking with that formula as close as I can.

Ford Flex Ecoboost.

[/thread]

Well ****, I forgot my second favorite Ford SUV. Seriously, how the HELL did I forget the Flex? I haven't driven one yet...maybe I need to. EcoBoost is definitely sweet. As a bonus my fiancée loves the Flex.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Doesn't fuel mileage and affordability go hand-in-hand? (Especially now at $4-5+ /gal)

+1 on the Flex.

 

[JCE]

Doesn't fuel mileage and affordability go hand-in-hand? (Especially now at $4-5+ /gal)

+1 on the Flex.

Let me rephrase, afford-ability for repairs and the initial cost of the loan. We can carpool to and from work (we work in the same building) so gas mileage isn't a big deal.

 

[Philly]

I do agree that the XT looks best in that blue like in the picture. I'm just not as familiar with Subarus to know more about it's reliability. I just "hear" things around the office and etc. Good to know they can be ok.

Basically, no company can touch an NA Subaru for reliability (except maybe Honda), so their turbo engines should be quite good. You should still do research into those motors and find some source of information other than kids who beat the hell out of their WRX. The OBXT motors are supposed to be very good too, so I assume Subaru knows what they're doing. Foresters tend to not be owned by the F&F crowd so if you do happen to find an 07-08 Forester XT, you should be in good shape for the type of owner it had. See if you can find a manual though. The Subaru four-speed auto dates back to the stone age.

It's a shame about the no wagon thing, but I think the Flex is a great choice. It seems like a great compromise car, sort of a wagon for people who can't have a wagon.

 

[JCE]

It's a shame about the no wagon thing, but I think the Flex is a great choice. It seems like a great compromise car, sort of a wagon for people who can't have a wagon.

My thoughts exactly. Plus it looks damn good.

Thx for the Subbie info.

 

[Cale]

The Flex might be the most comfortable vehicle ever.

 

[eSZee]

My suggestions would be the Subaru XT and the Mazda CX7. SUVs are the kind of car I don't understand so there you go.

 

[astrosdude91]

Go older and cheaper. Have you looked at the 3rd gen back 4Runner? Those will still outlive half the brand new SUV's on your list as is.

Or have you looked at the Lexus RX? There's a reason why there are so many of those damn things on the road.

I do quite like the 4 gen+ 4Runner. The Sequoia is just too big and unappealing for me. So I would opt for the little sister.

 

[Danoff]

Bought an '08 FX35 not long ago and am really loving it. I was pretty picky about the mileage, color, interior trim, etc., but I found the right one through carmax, had it shipped over and never looked back.

The FX has good reliability figures and is altogether a well put together vehicle. The 35 has plenty of pep for me. I opted for the AWD version to make ski trips easier. I also have the sport package with the 20" wheels.

I really love the FX styling, and am so glad that I didn't end up with any of the other SUVs on my wife's list. The engine is nice, but the transmission is pretty much astounding. I love the smooth, fast shifts. There are a few downsides with the FX, and while I wouldn't let any of them discourage you (it's the best one on your list), you should be aware of them.

- The back is kinda small. Folding down the seats helps but the opening itself is not particularly large. Trying to place a cube that has decently large dimensions into it can be tricky.
- My large wheels make it tricky to find people who can put new rubber on or do an alignment. You might want to check around and see if your local shop can handle 20s if you're looking at the sport package.
- The glove compartment is comically small.
- The sport package wheels will cause tramlining when the tires wear thin. I thought something was wrong with the suspension until I got new rubber - which improved the ride almost unbelievably.

Awesome vehicle. The AWD with snow tires pounded through snow like I couldn't believe. People with jacked up pickup trucks with the "truck balls" must have been pissed watching me drive effortlessly up hills that left them sliding back down. Get the FX. Be patient, the right one will come along.


Edit: Oh, and the Lexus RX steering is a joke. I can't believe people willingly purchase sloppy non-communicative steering like that.

 

[Tornado]

+1 for the Flex from me.

Or have you looked at the Lexus RX? There's a reason why there are so many of those damn things on the road.

Because lots of people buy Camrys, and lots of people look for things to replace upgrade to from their Camrys. And that carries every negative connotation it could possibly have.

 

[Keef]

I was going to say "Let's not," until I saw a picture of the Flex.

I love the Flex. I want a Flex.

Sort of related, I happen to think the Lincoln MKT is one of the best-looking crossovers on the market. I love the shoulder kink and the wing-shaped tail lights.

 

[Cale]

I was going to say "Let's not," until I saw a picture of the Flex.

I love the Flex. I want a Flex.

Sort of related, I happen to think the Lincoln MKT is one of the best-looking crossovers on the market. I love the shoulder kink and the wing-shaped tail lights.

The head room is quite a bit worse than the Flex.

 

[Tornado]

I like the interior of the Flex more than the Mark T.

 

[JCE]

The Flex might be the most comfortable vehicle ever.

This is good to know because comfort is high on the list.

My suggestions would be the Subaru XT and the Mazda CX7. SUVs are the kind of car I don't understand so there you go.

I prefer the Edge with the V6 as allowed to the MZR I4 in the CX-7 in my price range and year I'm looking at. That and I don't like the front of the Mazda.

Go older and cheaper. Have you looked at the 3rd gen back 4Runner? Those will still outlive half the brand new SUV's on your list as is.

Or have you looked at the Lexus RX? There's a reason why there are so many of those damn things on the road.

I do quite like the 4 gen+ 4Runner. The Sequoia is just too big and unappealing for me. So I would opt for the little sister.

I do not want go go older, I am trying to go newer than my current daily driver.

Also the RX is the worst SUV on the market in my opinion. Boring, expensive and not fun to drive at all...

Bought an '08 FX35 not long ago and am really loving it. I was pretty picky about the mileage, color, interior trim, etc., but I found the right one through carmax, had it shipped over and never looked back.

The FX has good reliability figures and is altogether a well put together vehicle. The 35 has plenty of pep for me. I opted for the AWD version to make ski trips easier. I also have the sport package with the 20" wheels.

I really love the FX styling, and am so glad that I didn't end up with any of the other SUVs on my wife's list. The engine is nice, but the transmission is pretty much astounding. I love the smooth, fast shifts. There are a few downsides with the FX, and while I wouldn't let any of them discourage you (it's the best one on your list), you should be aware of them.

- The back is kinda small. Folding down the seats helps but the opening itself is not particularly large. Trying to place a cube that has decently large dimensions into it can be tricky.
- My large wheels make it tricky to find people who can put new rubber on or do an alignment. You might want to check around and see if your local shop can handle 20s if you're looking at the sport package.
- The glove compartment is comically small.
- The sport package wheels will cause tramlining when the tires wear thin. I thought something was wrong with the suspension until I got new rubber - which improved the ride almost unbelievably.

Awesome vehicle. The AWD with snow tires pounded through snow like I couldn't believe. People with jacked up pickup trucks with the "truck balls" must have been pissed watching me drive effortlessly up hills that left them sliding back down. Get the FX. Be patient, the right one will come along.


Edit: Oh, and the Lexus RX steering is a joke. I can't believe people willingly purchase sloppy non-communicative steering like that.

I love the FX, you know that. I do thank you for the pros and cons.

I was going to say "Let's not," until I saw a picture of the Flex.

I love the Flex. I want a Flex.

Sort of related, I happen to think the Lincoln MKT is one of the best-looking crossovers on the market. I love the shoulder kink and the wing-shaped tail lights.

The Flex is quite good, too bad it isn't selling as well as I want. The Lincoln MKT is sex...I would snuggle one. The are mega expensive however.

 

[astrosdude91]

I didn't know SUV's were supposed to be fun to drive. Well, at least CUV's anyways.

Go with the 4Runner then.

Or the FX. If fun is what you want, I guess you can't go wrong with a Z chassis and engine.

 

[deadcell96]

Well, my sister got a 4WD Honda CR-V. She loves that thing to death and I like it more than her old Yaris. It's a really comfortable car and I also read it's the best in class. My advise, if you get it, is to go for the red, which is better than the multiple shades of gray they offer.

 

[Tornado]

I didn't know SUV's were supposed to be fun to drive. Well, at least CUV's anyways.

They don't have to be fun to drive, but it is generally nice to have your tall-ish SUV not feel less connected to the road than a 1996 Chevrolet Lumina.

 

[CodeRedR51]

They don't have to be fun to drive, but it is generally nice to have your tall-ish SUV not feel less connected to the road than a 1996 Chevrolet Lumina.

Then stay away from the 00-06 Chevy Tahoe and GMC Yukon. Speaking from experience, the steering in those things is super light, numb, and gives no feedback from the road at all.

 

[astrosdude91]

They don't have to be fun to drive, but it is generally nice to have your tall-ish SUV not feel less connected to the road than a 1996 Chevrolet Lumina.

I see then. I'll have to break the news to my mom just how bad her new purchase is.

 

[YSSMAN]

Interesting question. Although trucks are typically not my forte, there are a few that tickle my fancy, and strangely they all come from Toyota.

1. Toyota FJ: Although it is not nearly as practical as the 4Runner on which it is based upon, the look and feel is awfully unique. I've never driven one, but I assume it would be similar to the 4Runner. Neither bad nor good, just a truck, and that's about it. The offroadability would probably be the best overall reason to grab one, but that really depends on what you want out of it.

2. Toyota 4Runner: Give or take, it is probably the most reasonable SUV on the market today. It isn't too big to scare me, but it isn't too small to not really be an SUV. The capabilities of the vehicle are impressive, the interior is comfortable and quiet, and altogether they seem to be quite reliable compared to the other SUVs around it's size range.

3. Hummer H3: I'm not joking. First things first, why not? Secondly, why not? The size is pretty reasonable, the performance is capable, and with the V8 option, it is a pretty awesome smaller-sized SUV. Sure, you have to deal with all of the negative Hummer stigma, but credit where credit is due... It was probably the best SUV that GM sold for some time.

4. Jeep Wrangler Unlimited: What more is there to say here? It is a Wrangler, and that's about it. They go for a million years, no matter what you do to it. I'm not sure how hard the hardtop versions are to find, but that would be the way to go. The only problem is that the new Wrangler is that much better. And I'd probably be quite sad not having that new interior or the Phoenix V6.

 

[astrosdude91]

I forgot about the FJ.

Also, if you're considering the Expedition, have you thought about the Tahoe? I've never been in a new one, so I don't know much about them.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'd have a GMT900 Tahoe over an Expedition, if that helps with anything. To be frank, GM does a better job with their truck-to-SUV conversions compared to Ford, and it really began to show with the last update given to the Tahoe/Yukon and Avalanche. I actually like riding in, and driving both my Dad's ('09) Avalanche and my Grandfather's ('10) Yukon. Both use the 5.3L Vortec V8 and a six-speed automatic. We've been averaging about 17-18 MPG with the Avalanche, and get as much as 24 MPG on the highway at times. We've never had an issue with either truck, both of which have been far superior to the previous Avalanches and Tahoes that we've owned previously.

 

[Sniffs]

I wouldn't recommend an older SUV anyway...if you think the current ones are thirsty, the older ones are even worse, because they're basically V8 pickups with permanent caps
I only have two old Body-on-Frame SUV's under my belt, unfortunately.