Lighting and Night Racing

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JohnBM01

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Hello, GTPlanet.

I figured after trying out other topics of mention, I decided I'd come back to the GT4 discussion. If it is any time of day I enjoy other than sunset (and maybe sunrise as well), it is nighttime. To me, there is something about racing at night. Temperatures are cooler, the stars come out, the moon shines, and of course, on come the lights (unless you race in race series that don't use lights or have saloon cars that don't need lights). When you play Tokyo Xtreme Racer Zero or 3, you know how the city lights up in the night. TXR3 had the best case. When you're at a distance, the big light sparkle can be seen as much as in real racing, only without lens flares. Personally, some like them, some don't, but I wonder what light flares would be like with the cars sparkling in the distance. Also, while the night races in the city are interesting, I wonder how road courses will do in the later times of day. Now, you can race in the evening with the headlights on, but I don't think a ROAD course has been run in the dark for any GT game. I think that Grand Valley would make a challenging and exciting night race. Maybe I'd like to race Tsukuba with the sun going down as the sky illuminates in hues of red, orange, purple, and blue, and have stars and the moon out. And why not Laguna Seca? Hey, the ALMS is going race "under the lights" for their 2004 Finale. Then again, imagine tackling the good old Corkscrew... in the dark! What considerations do you have for tackling the darkness? I'll start.

As I mentioned earlier, brighter lights from the cars would be interesting. You know, when you see an endurance-bound prototype race car zoom through Road Atlanta or Le Mans, you know that the lights are bright so they can see through the darkness. A mini-consideration I'd like to see is being able to purchase brighter headlights and fog lights (if any) so seeing better at night is acheived. Another option (especially for rallying machines) would be lightpods and specialized front bumpers which allow for more lights. You may choose to keep those lights for regular races, or change them accordingly so that you don't have six extra lights running when you don't need too much lighting.

As far as night racing goes, I kind of want to run races under the lights at road courses. I don't mean evening and sunset, but darkness, like in Special Stage R5 and SS Route 11. If the sun is barely out while the sky gets darker, then that's a clear indication that it qualifies as a "night race." For a challenge, I want to actually challenge that my car (or truck) has enough lighting to see through darkness.

Darker night races, brighter lights, more fun. What do you think about how lighting and night racing should be done?
 
I just hope the headlights in GT games actually illuminate the road!

Racing at night isn't my favourite but it does make a nice change (dusk & dawn is nice enough too although I really liked Deep Forest in GT1 with its early evening lighting), although I've never really liked the SS tracks that much. Still I'd miss good old SS R5 if they took it out.

Buying fog lights is an interesting idea, and also something good to see with the rally cars. It would be fun to buy a small hatchback & then stick on a set of foglights to lighten up the darker tracks :)
 
I would like to see the race cars with the tiny LED lights one the side you see in American Le Mans racing. Also, the relfective, "glow-in-the-dark", car numbers. Perhaps, a brighter glare in your rear view, and side view, mirrors from the race car behind you. IRL, they can be blinding.

For at night racing, and since it looks like real time weather effects might be in the game, how about lightning strikes in the sky? No, I don't mean lightning striking the ground, that would be stupid, but more like a cloudy, overcast evening sky, with an occasional lightning strike flashing through the clouds would be an awesome sight for night racing.
 
Racing any track at any time would be a definite plus as would headlights that give out real time lighting, not just a fixed reflection on the road.
 
Originally posted by T5-R
I just hope the headlights in GT games actually illuminate the road!
[...]


That about sums up my feelings. I'm all for night racing on road courses, Grand Valley would be sweet under the lights. I'd like to see some more racing in the wet too, although that's another subject.
 
I really like the dawn/dusk races simply because you can sit and gaze into the reflective beauty of the car models.....

Hey, some of these races are long and dull okay?!?

:)
 
Even though I know it won't happen, it would be really cool if we could have neons on under the car. Even if we could only see them on the car selection screen and/or at night.
 
Neons, in a GT game, do you take Gran Turismo seriousely or do you wish it was shoved into a blender with NFS:Underground?
 
Originally posted by live4speed
Neons, in a GT game, do you take Gran Turismo seriousely or do you wish it was shoved into a blender with NFS:Underground?

I said I know it will never be in the game. I was just giving ideas of what would be cool to see.....geeze!!!:trouble:
 
I know it won't be in the game, but why would neons be cool in a seriouse sim like GT? Don't take it as a criticism of what you like if you are indeed into all the modding scene, but it has no place in a GT game.
 
Neons? Wow. Have you had the umbilical cord wrapped round your neck for all this time?
 
Well, I find it quite interesting to race at night. I mean, anyone who seen real race cars race under the lights (sorry, NASCAR and all other oval series), should know what night racing can be like. The WRC cars and SCCA Pro Rally cars have some night stages, and to me, the lights seem to be more effective because think about it. You're going off-road with little or no lighting. Having your lightpod for more lighting is essential for survival. Maybe different lightpod styles would be interesting. Like I seen in Super Street magazine of a local-level Impreza with two big fog lights on the sides and two more big lights above the main headlights. That car would go on to win the rally.

As far as road racing goes, sufficient lighting and darkness would be interesting. I don't think PD would go for darkness because they want to be able to show off the environment. Most of the time, fogging is so old-school. But when you think about it, if you took the Fuji track, put the action under the lights in a race at about 10PM, answer me this. Can you still see Mt. Fuji? GT4 will probably allow it to be seen because the game won't make night racing tough. If you think about it, night racing is almost as challenging as racing in the wet, or even racing at night in the wet. You have to be able to see the track up ahead and take the turns carefully, as you would in daylight. I would still like a race in twilight, like Special Stage Route 11 from Gran Turismo 1 (GT3's rendition for SSR11 was alright, but I was hoping for a little more darkness, but the sun still being out). I would like some more realistic night racing. If GT wanted to get real technical, they can have things so that the air temperature cools down everything, even some of the engines from the cars.

And as a side note, let me make this one last point. I like tuner and modified cars because I am an art person. However, I don't think neon lighting would be in a RACING game. I have yet to play NFS:U, but even I know that it would be impossible to have a race car with neon lighting. Do you think the Corvette GT Racer would zoom down Mulsanne at 11:30 PM with green lighting under the car? I doubt it. But if you're into the modding scene, the 24 Hours of Nurburgring last year had some cars with laser shows from the cars. Of course, the Europeans know how to party their asses off, but maybe for a dress-up option, you can have that for night races. But the chances of that happening? About the chances of a GT-level Porsche winning Le Mans outright.
 
I want PD to implement real night racing, where it is actually dark, cos the 'night' tracks in GT3 aren't dark enough... the sky is just purple and there are more sparkly lights.

The one place where it is genuinely dark is in SSR11, coming out of one of the hairpins, it's real dark - cool.

In particular, I want Deep Forest in the deep of night. Minimal light, just high beam headlights and the road.
 
Now, I think GT3 killed some of the more impressive views of some tracks. For example, Gran Turismo 3 killed the view of the mountains and the water after Intermediate 3. I mean, you have to have played Gran Turismos 1 or 2 to know what the view is like. It was a beautifully blue sky day, and you can see the water. Deep Forest was held in the sunset in GTs 1 and 2, but daytime in GT3. The only time you can run the track in the evening was to race it in reverse.

But WDB, imagine not racing at sunset, but twilight. Imagine that the sky has dark blue skies, and you can see the moon in a whitish-blue light. Imagine looking at nebulae in the sky. Deep Forest would be an experiment in how beautiful skies can be. While it is rare you'll see stars and galaxies in real life racing in pure darkness, I think that some beautiful effects can still be acheived. As an artist, let me tell you. I LOVE nighttime. The stars, the moon, the setting sun, nothing like it. I'd like to see if PD can come up with starry skies, galaxies, the moon, or maybe for a snowy rally course, how about an aurora in the skies? I mean, if chameleon paint was successful in GT3, imagine some fiery-looking auroras in the skies. Rallying in the snow is sweet enough, so imagine an aurora in the skies. Don't know what one looks like? Look them up on the web.
 
GT4 will apparently (GamePro May/04) allow choosing the time of day, for all tracks.

Let's hope they do real night-time scenarios, especially for rallying.

Cheers,

MasterGT
 
even I know that it would be impossible to have a race car with neon lighting.
At the Bathurst 24hr the past two years, there was a Honda S2000 with green neon lights on the undercarriage of the car and it made a green tinge on the road during the night. The team running that car had been to the Nurburgring 24hr race several times and this is, appanently where they got the inspiration for the neon lights. I do agree however, that neon lighting on cars has no place in a racing simulator.
 
Originally posted by JohnBM01
Imagine looking at nebulae in the sky. Deep Forest would be an experiment in how beautiful skies can be. ...I'd like to see if PD can come up with starry skies, galaxies,....

what sort of inter-galatic moon race do you think GT4 will be?! ;)

I have stood outside on many a clear dark night and never been able to identify a nebulae with the naked eye. I suspect the resolution of a TV screen won't change this.
 
Moon race? What the hell? You want to have a GT Endurance race on the Moon or something? A rally race on Mars? Or hell, a 100-lap race on a figure-8 on Pluto?

I still see at least a twilight race for Deep Forest. I mean, imagine seeing a sparkly galaxy or nebula on television. Now, the real challenge is, can any stars be noticed? Of course, you'll be able to see a few stars at the most with the naked eye. So if GT took nighttime pictures, the beautiful touch of stars in the sky probably will not happen. If the photorealism applied to skies, then stars will not happen. The moon maybe, but not the stars. Just look at Special Stage Route 5 Wet's reverse race. Pay attention to the skies as you race, you can just see a little moon in the sky, even though the open areas of the track are all wet. If PD didn't want to be photorealistic with night skies, then skies would most likely have more stars than stars in Hollywood. I don't know very many games with a lovely showcase of stars. I wouldn't expect any for street courses because when you're in the city, the lights of the city are too bright to see any stars in the sky. But when out on road courses away from very bright lights, you can probably see much more.

I remember about 10 years ago, I was probably 11 or 10, and I attended Camp Olympia, with is a far way from Houston, TX. The first night, I looked up in the sky while in a small forest. I looked up, I seen more stars than in the city. It was beautiful. No bright moon or galaxies, but so many stars. Of course, considering that Texas weather is hell at times, it later rained that night and almost all day the next day. But, the darkness will be there for GT. I'm just hoping that road courses get the nighttime treatement. No evening, no sunset, just lights on, and darkness. I'll accept twilight. I'll even accept sunrise (racing in the MORNING? How can anyone hear the rooster?).

One last thing, it would be interesting if a few natural phenomena occured. As it relates to this topic, imagine a race where a Lunar or Solar Eclipse took place. Just something to imagine until my next reply.
 
The lights still look the same based on Hong Kong photos. I think there are two different cases. Le Mans 24 Hours had some strange lighting, but I think Tokyo Xtreme Racer 3 had bright enough lights from cars so that it looked like a car in the distance has their cars to very bright lights. Le Mans 24 Hours kind of brought up more realistic lighting in the sense of not knowing what car was coming up- THAT was real lighting. It wasn't where you had big lights with a little sparkle like in GT3, or the lack thereof in GTs 1 and 2.

Gran Turismo 4 needs some lighting that makes things more interesting at night. Your Viper GTS-R with those fog lights and auxillary lights should actually BRIGHTEN the road, not just sparkle (even though it is one of many GT3's cars with a beautiful sparkle). I'd personally love to see the LM cars sparkle down the road from GT3. I'm talking about the Honda S2000, Mitsubishi FTO, Toyota Altezza, Mazda RX-7, and Subaru Impreza LM cars, and how they light up the road. The RX-7 and FTO have a nice sequence of lights. Imagine them being put to the test with a big sparkle from the lights. The S2000's lights are a little weird and reminiscent of the Lancia Stratos Rally Car. You know the Stratos had those two headlights on the left and right side? Well, it had a lightpod with four more lights, and the lighting was basically horizontal. No fog lights, no auxilallry lights, nothing. The Honda S2000 kind of have the same style of lighting as the Stratos. The only difference is that the lights aren't retractable. I first thought the S2000 LM had a front grill to it, but it was a small lightpod that had a set of four lights.

So, any more about lighting?
 
HAPPY CINCO DE MAYO!!!

Anyhow, here is an update. I was able to find my Super Street on the Subaru that had two new fog lights, and four lights above the main headlights. I'm not going to show pictures, but it was from the April 2002 magazine with the front cover saying "Solid Gold," a gold Lexus IS300/Toyota Altezza with a carbon fiber hood. Anyhow, the car is featured at the 2002 Ramada Express International Rally in Laughlin, NV, USA. The car I'm talking about with all the extra lighting is the #4 Impreza that won the whole thing. If I find any more info, I'll post back in the future.
 
Originally posted by live4speed
Racing any track at any time would be a definite plus as would headlights that give out real time lighting, not just a fixed reflection on the road.

My sentiments exactly.

Want neons? play NFSU. Sure they can be done but so can a lot of things we don't really want. If we did want them, we'd know to look elsewhere - there are games that cover that specific taste.

I'd love a weather option like in F1 games say. Sunny, overcast, light rain, heavy rain, monsoon, sounds like fun to me. Adds a new world to the tyre selections though, but coupled with the fuel gauge (looks genuine) it'd make for some real pit stop strategy.
 
I just posted this in another thread, but it's probably just as, if not more relevant here (apologies if you've suffered it once already)

I'd love to see a night version of Grand Valley with contrasting areas of darkness and lighting - You could have a floodlit stadium, then into darkness for turns one and two, a dimly lit turn 3 (the brands hatch style hairpin) then back into the dark for the left/right esses, through a couple of glowing orange tunnels and out onto what could be a spectacularly lit bridge, through another bright tunnel plunging into a really dark chicaine shrouded by the high walls, and then blast back through the effervessing stadium again.

I just thought of a couple of nice ideas as I wrote that:

It would be good if the lights from the cars actually worked: On previous GT games, the lights on cars were invisible beyond a certain range as the game filtered them out along with the other decals on the car. I just think it would be tres cool to see the red glare of brake lights right at the end of the straights (or white glare of people miles behind you). Realtime lighting would also make for some peachy effects on circuits that double back on themselves, especially ones with trees: Think of fanned rays of light shifting across your path as you approach the hairpin on Grand Valley and another exits it on the other side of the trees. All this might be a bit much for the lil' ol' PS2 to handle but there's always GT5..

A secret mode where you could race under the light of only the moon and the stars with no artificial lights whatsoever except perhaps dimmed tail lights. That would be the GT equivalent of a candle lit dinner.
 
While watching the 24 Hours of Le Mans, I remember bringing this topic up many moons ago. I mentioned that lights should be bigger and brighter in GT4, like in real-life racing. I also mentioned night racing should be darker. If you look at GT games, the only truly dark races have been the night races on the city streets. Now, that's fine, but imagine challenging Grand Valley with a lot of darkness. And you'll see the moon and maybe a few stars. Some of those big light towers will light up the way. But I think GT is in need of a good nighttime race. And if you can't have Le Mans, you can at least take a course and liven things up. Le Mans nightlife is very entertaining to put it mildly. Considering the time of year, nighttime is short. So that's why when the 24 Hours of Daytona is around, that race happens more at night.

Anyhow, you may have already seen the lights on race cars on, so imagine the lights being bigger and brighter with darkness. So far, no game I've played (other than Need for Speed 3 and High Stakes on PC) has put lighting to good use. What do you think about GT4 and such lighting?
 
In reviving this topic, I think the lighting will remain the same. If you look at Gran Turismo 3, you can see that some cars have light beams from the lights to the road. However, don't expect them to be very big. Le Mans 24 Hours and Tokyo Xtreme Racer 3 have wonderful light beams. LM24 had some more realistic light flashes. When you glanced back behind you, you see some very bright lights, and almost looked like the sun coming up from the horizon. Tokyo Xtreme Racer 3's lights were nicely done. Keep in mind that you had high beams you can flash, and the high beams surely show more of the road and illuminate brighter. So when you're not using the high beams to challenge someone on the road, you can think of them for having wonderful light shows.

Something missing from Gran Turismo games would be light trails. Look at "Need for Speed: Underground." When you trailed down the road, you could see lights trail as you speedfreak it all over the city. Tokyo Xtreme Racer Zero had some light trails that I could recall from the tail lights. So while brighter lights and more realistic-looking nightlife are wonderful considerations, trailing is more of an optional deal. Want to continue the talk on lighting and night racing? The reason why I'm doing all of this is because even though not a lot is being discussed on GT4, it doesn't mean that we are "running out of topics on GT4." The only reason why there is really "running out of topics" is because you have nothing to contribute to topics like this one. So, any more talk on darkness and lights?
 
I think night racing would be great. I would like to see Seattle in the dark and Super speedway, that would be great to see or it could be an option to race any track in the dark.
 
I too love the thought of night racing the 24 hr le mans in the dark is the best part of the whole race.

It would be brilliant to see the tracks lit at different times of the day and there is a a lack of some night races Imagine the brake discs glowing at night :D I'll have to keep in eye out for the moon on the ss5 at night. As it has been already mentioned it would take a lot of processing power to incorporate what has been mentioned on this thread I don't think the ps2 could cope with it. I bet the developers could do a really good job of lighting grand valley the ferris wheel on ss11 looks soo good imgaine what they could come up with on the bridge! :dopey:

I was watching a replay where the camera is pointing at the back wheel I noticed that when another car overtook me their lights reflected on the body of my car that looked really good :lol:
 
Some nice ideas there John :)

Solid Lifters
For at night racing, and since it looks like real time weather effects might be in the game, how about lightning strikes in the sky? No, I don't mean lightning striking the ground, that would be stupid, but more like a cloudy, overcast evening sky, with an occasional lightning strike flashing through the clouds would be an awesome sight for night racing.

I agree with this one too. In WRC3, in France track 5, 6 or 7, (can't remember the excact one) there are lightning strikes that really light up the sky for a second and then sends a crawling, deep sound after it. It really sets the athmosphere and I wish we could see this in GT some day.
 
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