Like We Didn't Know: Ford RWD Sedan For 2008?

[YSSMAN]

In March, we told you about a Newsweek report that indicated Ford was working on a retro-styled rear-wheel-drive sedan to compete with the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger. The automaker later confirmed its development team in Australia was working on a new RWD platform for its Falcon and Territory models, as well as other future vehicles. In a conversation this week with Drive.com.au, Ford Australia boss Tom Gorman said a new sedan to replace the Fairlane and LTD models could be released alongside the the next-generation Falcon some time in 2008. The new model is said to have a shorter wheelbase than the Fairlane and LTD. It would be based on the Falcon, but be slightly more luxurious. The vehicle could come to the United Sates, too, he said. "We want to be an exporter […] I think that now is a very good time for us to do that. […] And it's at a time where the US is looking and where it's going with its large rear wheel drive platform."

Gorman said the Ford Australia could export 15,000 to 30,000 vehicles per year — "not 100,000." It's unclear how well a rear-whee-drive sedan would sell in America, but that limited capacity would present an interesting problem if demand was strong.

While a specific timeframe has not been given, Gorman admitted developments were coming in the near future.

"Given the challenges being faced in the US it's a great time to bring our resources and technologies even closer so we can really leverage – so that two and two is five, instead of both of us going off and doing separate vehicles," said Gorman.

"The next year or so is going to be very exciting."

Well, atleast we know the idea is being considered, but I find it a bit dissapointing we would be doing without both models here in the US. But, Ford North America will have to make room for everything, and my guess is that the LTD becomes the new top-model in the Ford lineup, possibly replacing the Crown Victoria in the process...

 

[Onikaze]

What would they name it?

Gotta start with F remember.

Falcon works.

 

[Poverty]

cool

 

[harrytuttle]

Eh, so long as they don't use the same supplier for the interior that they did for the Mustang, it should be okay. Ford's exterior designs have been kind of good the past few years. It shows real thought. The Iosis concept had some very nice elements to it. Too bad they kept thinking "economy car" with it.

Maybe someone will put two and two together: rear drive, and Iosis. Base V6 from the Mazda6, but V8 option from the Mustang. And add plenty of lightness. Semi-auto standard, Mustang's 6-speed optional.

And then, of course, a Shelby/SVT version.👍

 

[Jay]

I wonder how the US will take to the 50ish year old based 4.0L inline six the Falcon/Fairlanes/Territorys have? Unless the US will get V8 models only and assuming Ford Australia don't completely change engine before then.

Eh, so long as they don't use the same supplier for the interior that they did for the

If this happens the interior will be Australian made like the car.



Oh and please no Shelby versions, FPV, SVT yes but Shelby name has been milked enough.

 

[red70mach1]

Fairlaine would be nice. So is the Falcon name too.

 

[Onikaze]

Ford stopped using the I-6 in...1994 I think, though It may have soldiered on in the big box van and some pickups for half a decade or so.

I just want to see a Ford Falcon on American Streets.

 

[YSSMAN]

A few thoughts about the car for me:

1) It MUST be able to compete against the Aussie-born Impala and Grand Prix, and must match the new LY Chrysler products as well.

2) Engine choises MUST be either V6 or V8, as I doubt Americans would take kindly to folks who don't take kindly about folks who take kindly to the I6. (Yes, does it make sense? lol South Park...)

3) Given that Ford MUST use an "F" at the begining of the name, Fairlane is it. The Falcon would work, but at the time it was an "economy car" alike the Chevrolet Nova or Plymouth Valiant. The Fairlane would bring back memories of Ford's great sedan of the late '50s up to 1970, one of which still has a strong following in Ford culture. The only other option would be Galaxie, but that was generally a two-door, and thusly would be a compeditor to the Monte Carlo only.

 

[Jay]

2) Engine choises MUST be either V6 or V8, as I doubt Americans would take kindly to folks who don't take kindly about folks who take kindly to the I6. (Yes, does it make sense? lol South Park...)

In that case V8 only it is, the chances Ford Australia with use a V6 now that they put so much money into the I6 is very slim, unless Ford Australia fits imported Ford V6's for the exports.

I6's is a great engine design, too bad most people think of it as a old dinosaur design.

 

[YSSMAN]

I don't see why both engines won't work in the same car?

It isn't out of the question to see the I6 come back to Ford North America, as GM has had some success with their I6 and I5 powerplants in their trucks. But on the opposite side of the token, similarly to Ford AU, Ford North America has dumped big-bucks into their V6 program to improve uppon the Mazda-fied 3.0L Duratec to make the new 3.5L version set to debut later this year.

It will be interesting to see how Ford would work the car into the American lineup, as they allready have the Mazda6 clone (Fusion) and Sweedish-American (Fivehundred) to make up their "standard" sedan lineup. Therefore a V8-only standard may seem reasonable, but the car would have to match the current Crown Victoria's size and specification as it is indeed one of the most forgotten but most important vehicles in Ford's North American lineup.

Using the Ford.com.au Spec Sheet on the Fairlane, I've come up with these numbers in comparison to the Crown Victoria...

Ford Fairlane (V8, 5.4L)):

- Length: 202.9 in
- Width: 73.3 in
- Wheelbase: 114.9 in
- Weight: 4078 lbs

Ford Crown Victoria (V8, 4.6L):

- Length: 212 in
- Width: 78.3 in
- Wheelbase: 114.6 in
- Weight: 4129 lbs

So they are pretty similar in size overall, and I belive interior dimensions are close as well. It leads me to belive that the Fairlane COULD be the next-gen RWD model to come to the US. A replacement to the Crown Victoria? Who knows!?

 

[GT4_Rule]

Finally good news from Ford. Of course they need a RWD car to compete with GM and Chrysler!

 

[1X83Z]

Thank God. Another car sourced from Australia. That's worked out excruciatingly well in the past:

Oh wait - each and every one of those cars were cancelled due to abysmal sales. I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that their tastes are different that ours. Fact: every car made in Australia during my lifetime has failed in the US.

 

[GT4_Rule]

GTO was not made in volume as noted in the last GTO thread. Also even though it was slow at the beginning it picked up sales quickly and in 2005-2006 model it reached its best year. So I don't think you should include the GTO in that list.

 

[GT Pro]

GTO was not made in volume as noted in the last GTO thread. Also even though it was slow at the beginning it picked up sales quickly and in 2005-2006 model it reached its best year. So I don't think you should include the GTO in that list.

I agree, considering 05/06 was the best year ever for exported Holden vehicles. 👍

 

[1X83Z]

GTO was not made in volume as noted in the last GTO thread. Also even though it was slow at the beginning it picked up sales quickly and in 2005-2006 model it reached its best year. So I don't think you should include the GTO in that list.

Are you joking? In not one year did it ever reach sales goals, and it was cancelled after a laughably short run due to complete and utter lack of demand or anything even remotely resembling an interested buyer. The GTO is the biggest flop of those three vehicles.

 

[Jay]

Oh wait - each and every one of those cars were cancelled due to abysmal sales.

The GTO was not cancelled due to abysmal sales, Holden stopped making them globally (The sales exceeded Holdens overall prediction when the Monaro was first produced well before the US got them) as they have to make room for the new Zeta based Commodore/Statesman line up.


Infact Holden Monaros were cancelled before GTO's and VXR's.

 

[GT Pro]

The GTO was not cancelled due to abysmal sales, Holden stopped making them globally (The sales exceeded Holdens overall prediction when the Monaro was first produced well before the US got them) as they have to make room for the new Zeta based Commodore/Statesman line up.


Infact Holden Monaros were cancelled before GTO's and VXR's.

Exactly, the sales of the GTO well exceeded Holden's predictions and would of kept selling strongly. The only reason they were cancelled in the US, as well as globally was because Holden stopped making them. and If they continued produvtion of the Monaro I could seriously say they would still be selling it strongly for another 3 years and onwards. 👍

 

[Danny]

What would they name it?

Gotta start with F remember.

I can think of exactly 1000 possibilities in this case, each one ruder than the last.

 

[YSSMAN]

M5Power, I think you are overgeneralizing here just a bit. Just because the car will share a design with one in Australia won't make it a failure, if anything that fact should be a reason why those cars should come to the US. In the land down under, they have been keeping alive what we as Americans killed-off in the 1970s, and it is about bloody time the American automakers realise that people want mid-size RWD sedans and coupes on our roads once again.

The GTO may not have sold as well as what GM had initially predicted, but in each year follow it's introduction, sales increased. The popularity of the car was driven forward by consistantly positive reviews and successes in racing. Although the car was indeed taken off the market before it should have been, its replacement is about a year away, and it too will use the same limited-production numbers that the outgoing model had.

I would presume that much of the same situation would be happening with not only the rest of the Zeta/VE lineup at GM, but also this un-named chassis that will be comming to Ford North America. Because of cars like the Fusion and Fivehundred, this new model cannot be a full-production one, I'd say limited to fewer than 50,000 a year overall here in the US. My estimation (as seen above) would be that it could replace the "relic" otherwise known as the Crown Victoria.

As long as they have a car that can compete against the Charger/300C and Impala/Grand Prix, the Ford fans will be happy, and the car will sell well enough to make the execs at Ford happy as well.

 

[1X83Z]

The GTO was not cancelled due to abysmal sales, Holden stopped making them globally (The sales exceeded Holdens overall prediction when the Monaro was first produced well before the US got them) as they have to make room for the new Zeta based Commodore/Statesman line up.

Exactly, the sales of the GTO well exceeded Holden's predictions and would of kept selling strongly.

If you honestly believe this, then you're simply wrong. I'll quote WikiPedia:

Due to anticipated demand, dealers were initially charging large markups and denying requests for test drives. By the end of the year, the 2004s were selling with significant discounts from MSRP. Sales were 13,569 of 15,728 cars for 2004.

If you really believe what you said, and the GTO was cancelled not due to abysmal sales, then why the hell isn't it still being made? If indeed it really was popular, they would've continued selling it here somehow. And if it wasn't selling absymally, why again was it being offered at deep discounts? And why haven't I seen one since June? And why was it cancelled after three years?

And by the way - oh wow, sales increased as it went on. Lovely stat. The obvious problem is that in 2005, power increased by nearly twenty percent, despite prices remaining the same. Sales for 2006 probably haven't increased (I implore you to actually prove your claims) but if they did (and they haven't, remember) it's only because the 2006 model year for that vehicle began last July and will run through November, a year of about sixteen months.

GTPro, the statement of yours I quoted is patently false, despite the superb spelling of "have" as "of."

Cars from Australia fail in the USA. Period. By the way, you intellectuals chose the wrong car to challenge - the Mitsubishi Diamante was sold here using various engines and two different bodystyles for nearly two decades. That was the one that wasn't a flop. In the end it did flop though.

 

[Jay]

If you really believe what you said, and the GTO was cancelled not due to abysmal sales, then why the hell isn't it still being made? If indeed it really was popular, they would've continued selling it here somehow. And if it wasn't selling absymally, why again was it being offered at deep discounts? And why haven't I seen one since June? And why was it cancelled after three years?
.

I live near the Holden factory that makes them, I have many friends that work there, there is a large lot that stored all the 2005 build cars to finish up the 2006 models (they stopped full production in 2005). The Monaro/ GTO is an old design based off the old Omega platform that Holden has now completely scrapped for the Zeta platform

All Omega platform Holden built cars have ceased production, It has lived it life period don't forget it was intially made only for Australia years before the US got it and was already getting old, Lutz drove one when on a GM business trip to Australia and loved it, he wanted it in the US.

It was cancelled because It was old, outdated and Holden finally stopped making jellybean Omega platform cars. Hence the VE Commodore (Zeta platform) which the next Monaro will come from just like the last Monaro came from the VT-VX Commodores (Omega based).

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=83710





I never said it wasnt selling all that great in the US but it was cancelled in the US along with the rest of the world, overall the combined sales from Australia, UK, US, Middle east far exceeded Holdens original expectations.


*EDIT* My bad a few Omega based Commodores (Ute and Wagon) will continue for awhile until the next ute and wagon VE versions arrive, but the main line of VZ (Omega based) Commodores have been replaced for the Zeta ZE.

 

[Onikaze]

I would say Fairlane, but they showed that Fairlane vanish concept which kinda worried me.

Falcon hasn't been used over here for years, it sounds "cool" to a young guys ears "Yeah, just got a new Falcon."

 

[guska]

I live near the Holden factory that makes them, I have many friends that work there, there is a large lot that stored all the 2005 build cars to finish up the 2006 models (they stopped full production in 2005). The Monaro/ GTO is an old design based off the old Omega platform that Holden has now completely scrapped for the Zeta platform

All Omega platform Holden built cars have ceased production, It has lived it life period don't forget it was intially made only for Australia years before the US got it and was already getting old, Lutz drove one when on a GM business trip to Australia and loved it, he wanted it in the US.

It was cancelled because It was old, outdated and Holden finally stopped making jellybean Omega platform cars.






Hence the VE Commodore (Zeta platform) which the next Monaro will come from just like the last Monaro came from the VT-VX Commodores (Omega based).

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=83710

I would like to add, that the Monaro/GTO was only EVER intended as a limited production run. They sold all the units that they ever intended to sell, and then some.

 

[Jay]

I would like to add, that the Monaro/GTO was only EVER intended as a limited production run. They sold all the units that they ever intended to sell, and then some.

Yes.

The initial costings allowed for a short model life with three relatively minor freshen-ups for a model run under 10,000. Ross McKenzie, Holden's marketing guru charged with making it a sales success, knew that coupes had a finite life in Australia. He was never going to allow the Monaro to sink into a mire of heavy discounting long after its use-by date. He intended it to quietly fade away at the VZ facelift when styling of the Commodore range would further isolate the Monaro. Even though the Monaro has since gone way beyond that, McKenzie remained resolute that it would always leave on a high, a promise he has maintained. In a rather fitting parallel, both McKenzie and the Holden version of this hugely successful Monaro end their time at Holden together.

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/car-review/ce7823.aspx

Monaro's worldly figures
Australia
Holden Monaro sales from October 2001 to December 2005 - 12,829

New Zealand
Monaro sales from February 2002 to December 2005 - 1065

Middle East
Chevrolet SS Lumina Coupe sales February 2003 to December 2005 - 990

United States
Pontiac GTO sales from December 2003 to December 2005 - 31,548

United Kingdom
Vauxhall Monaro sales from March 2004 to December 2005 - 798

Total - 47,230 (as of December 2005)

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?articleID=10985

 

[1X83Z]

All Omega platform Holden built cars have ceased production, It has lived it life period don't forget it was intially made only for Australia years before the US got it and was already getting old, Lutz drove one when on a GM business trip to Australia and loved it, he wanted it in the US.

Look, I realise Australians take pride in this vehicle and you don't want to be seen as having failed in the United States (or anywhere) but the simple fact of that matter is the GTO was cancelled and replacement is uncertain. If the vehicle was selling, that just wouldn't be the case. It's simple supply and demand. The vehicle was selling at large discounts six months in to its run, and it got axed after just three long years on the market. It was derided both in magazines and on forums like this, and it didn't live up to high expectations.

I'm not saying it wasn't a good car - it just wasn't a good GTO. I personally am a huge fan of the vehicle, and I'm upset that no-one bought it, but the truth is no-one bought it. Last summer I went to my local Pontiac lot and six were sitting there as new. That's not exactly the kind of thing a stellar seller - even "limited production", which can still sell poorly - does.

Monaro's worldly figures
Australia
Holden Monaro sales from October 2001 to December 2005 - 12,829

New Zealand
Monaro sales from February 2002 to December 2005 - 1065

Middle East
Chevrolet SS Lumina Coupe sales February 2003 to December 2005 - 990

United States
Pontiac GTO sales from December 2003 to December 2005 - 31,548

United Kingdom
Vauxhall Monaro sales from March 2004 to December 2005 - 798

Total - 47,230 (as of December 2005)

I don't understand the point of this figure - it just drives home the fact that the United States is the larger country and the world's largest automarket. I'll say it again: the **** sold poorly. It was a flop, the Diamante eventually was a flop, god knows the Capri XR2 was a flop, and not one Australian car sold here during my lifetime has succeeded, period.

And please don't attempt to make the point that the US bought more cars in two years than Australia did in four. You know why that's crap, so don't make me waste my time tearing that apart.

 

[Jay]

I don't understand the point of this figure - it just drives home the fact that the United States is the larger country and the world's largest automarket. I'll say it again: the **** sold poorly. It was a flop, the Diamante eventually was a flop, god knows the Capri XR2 was a flop, and not one Australian car sold here during my lifetime has succeeded, period.

The point of the figure is that the car was originally designed to sell 10,000 cars, in the end due to a combination of local popularity and overseas interest it sold over 47,000 by December 2005 near 5 times the amount originally planned. Overall it did alot more than what Holden ever hoped it would.

If the car sold like mad in the US, it didn't really matter as Holden had a limitation of a maximum 18,000 cars a year to ship to the US, so even if it had reached that number, it probably wouldn't be worth it for Holden to keep production going on a old model. They already have made numerous extensions to the main factory in South Australia just to keep up with what they have got. Then a all new model comes along, room is needed for their main money making model range and something had to give.

Now if Holden had a unlimited number of cars they could sell to the US and the were selling like hot cakes I have no doubt Holden would have kept going with production until sales reduced significantly or the replacement was ready, but that couldn't be the case.

And please don't attempt to make the point that the US bought more cars in two years than Australia did in four. You know why that's crap, so don't make me waste my time tearing that apart.

Oh god, you think I'm stupid enough to not realise why more Monaro's/GTO's sold in the US while not being a big sucess like it was in Australia?

Thats not what I was getting at.


Please note: I have never said a Australia car has been a success in the US, I am not debating that, I am pointing out that Monaro was a success to Holden and low volume sales in the US is not the reason Monaro/GTO ceased production.

 

[1X83Z]

Please note: I have never said a Australia car has been a success in the US, I am not debating that, I am pointing out that Monaro was a success to Holden and low volume sales in the US is not the reason Monaro/GTO ceased production.

Well in that case I agree wholly. The vehicle was clearly a success in Australia and New Zealand where it did beat sales targest, and I know the vehicle wasn't cancelled worldwide due to slow US sales. However I'm still of the opinion that a) it sold poorly in the US and b) it was cancelled here due to poor sales, my general feeling being though it was slated to be cancelled worldwide anyway, they would've found a way to continue US sales had it been a success. Or they'd be more certain about a successor.

 

[YSSMAN]

...Okay, back on topic...

Now that we know what the next-gen Commodore is like, and possibly what to expect with the next "G8" and Impala, what would you like to see done with the Ford model?

 

[McLaren]

I wonder how the US will take to the 50ish year old based 4.0L inline six the Falcon/Fairlanes/Territorys have? Unless the US will get V8 models only and assuming Ford Australia don't completely change engine before then.





If this happens the interior will be Australian made like the car.



Oh and please no Shelby versions, FPV, SVT yes but Shelby name has been milked enough.

True, but didn't Ford just come out with a SUV concept called a Fairlane?

EDIT: Yes, yes they did it seems.

Talk about completely changing body style. At least the Charger remained a car.

 

[a6m5]

True, but didn't Ford just come out with a SUV concept called a Fairlane?

EDIT: Yes, yes they did it seems.

Talk about completely changing body style. At least the Charger remained a car.

I seriously think people who come up with ideas like that should be fired. "OK. We got this car that look like a cross between Scion xB and Range Rover. What should we call it?" "I know! How about Crown Victoria!".

Last gen GTO did flop in the States. It did come here late in its' life-cycle, was sold as Pontiac, was sold as GTO(!?). I think the new Mustang GT pretty much put it away. If it actually sold as affordable muscle car import from Australia, I think it'd have sold quite well.