LIST of GT5 Gameplay failures

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chuyler1

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chuyler1
With the PSN network down, I've been going back to A-spec to gold events that I never got around to. Then I remembered why. The gameplay is horribly laid out and there are massive flaws in the progression. PD spent plenty of time testing and perfecting the racing physics, but the events appear to be thrown together with no regard for what the typical driver can accomplish using the DS3 or DFGT (the official wheel of GT5) or what challenges were more difficult than others.

Top Gear Test Track Intermediate (Lotus).
It takes maybe 20 minutes of practice to complete TGC 1 and 3 and receive a gold trophy, but why is 2 so difficult? First off, the brake balance is so bad on the Lotus that you spend the first hour trying to figure out the first turn. Even after that you'll still botch it up. The A.I. drivers have no trouble braking and turning but if you try to follow them into the turn your car spins uncontrollably. I feel bad for the DS3 players because I imagine even getting bronze in this is too much of a challenge.

Flight Academy Mercedes-Benz AMG Intermediate (full lap)
After completing each sector, which can be a challenge for someone unfamiliar with the track, you now have to run a 7:04 around the ring WITH traffic. Unlike the wet events, you don't get much slack in the time for mistakes. If you encounter another car at a key point on the track you might as well start over. The description says you should run at 80% to avoid mistakes, yeah right. The challenge is possible to gold, but it is the hardest of the series and should really be left to the end. The rain events are much easier because the times give some leeway for minor driver errors.

Grand Tour Stage 1 (Eiger Norwand).
I have seen that after days of practice it is possible to get 1:15 around this track while the gold time is under 1:17. However, this is the first stage of the special event. A typical game would make each stage progressively more difficult. I spent 2 evenings getting gold on this. Stages 2, 4, and 5 were golded on the first try.

Grand Tour Stage 3 (Toscana at Night)
This is another 2-3 hour grind. To make things worse, the track changed after a patch and the course appears to be a little more difficult now. If it were daylight, the times for gold may have been appropriate, but at night when it is difficult to pick up turn apexes you have to drive slower. You need a flawless daylight lap to gold this event. I only achieved it by boosting the contrast of my TV so I could see beyond my headlights.

Formula GT Championship
A vehicle specific event in the series is a great idea, but not when the vehicle isn't in the new car lot. The UCD should be reserved for finding deals on cars and picking up rare vehicles that would be fun to drive. Every event in the game should be winnable with a car from the new dealer. I could understand if the price of the car was high, but I do not understand why players are forced to cycle the UCD until a car turns up for an event. Someone mentioned the car is available in the online dealer...well if you don't have internet access or PSN is offline that doesn't help you much does it.

Endurance Races
No way to exit and come back? This should have been the #1 priority for the first patch of this game. Expecting players to run a 24 hour race in one sitting is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. Did anyone at PD even attempt it before releasing the game? Did anyone at PD even play the game start to finish before releasing it?

Classic Muscle Car Championship
Perhaps this is just a pet peiv of mine but I don't think there is a single muscle car that can compete in this event without first installing a custom transmission. Some people enjoy tuning cars but at the beginner and amateur levels of A-spec, I would expect a car straight from the dealer should be competitive. You get to Monza and the transmission tops out. Whoops. Are you telling me that a muscle car can't go faster than 110 mph?

Rally Gran Turismo Beginner
Wait 1 minute for map to load. Wait 1 minute for cars in front of you to drive off. Drive for 45 seconds. Repeat. Who's idea of fun was this? If you make a mistake, you'll have to start from the beginning again since there is no way to repeat a sector...and it will be different next time anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't rally drivers at least get a recon lap on the sector?

Rally Gran Turismo (Alaska events)
So you've picked a rally car that just barely wins the dirt event. Now you jump into the snow events. The same car is now passing the A.I. drivers, not just a few, but all of them. The A.I. needs some improvements to make the snow events a little more challenging.

License Tests
These become hot and cold. Some you get gold on the 2nd try, others you spend hours trying to figure out. I don't mind having to work for gold, but the order should be considered so that more difficult challenges appear in later license tests. Here are the highlights...

A-8 (Schumaker S)
Such a simple turn, yet to get gold you will run it endlessly trying to squeeze 100ths of a second out of it. For me this was the most difficult single car test. Drop the gold time by 1/10th and it probably would have been fine.

IC-2 (Trial Mountain banked left turn)
I know the track very well and can usually nail this turn in any car. However the gold time was extremely difficult to achieve. This test should have been saved for later or the times raised.

IC-10 (Rome with 512BB)
Lots of people had trouble with this one. It is arguably more difficult than some of the S license tests. After learning this track, I came back to it though. It's not that hard if you are familiar with the track but you have to be very aggressive on the first few turns, and the the 512BB doesn't respond well to heavy braking.

S-8 (Suzuka)
This really should have been the S-10 test. It was the most difficult for me even though I was familiar with the track. Some of the other S license tests were relatively easy. I spent more time on the Schumaker S than most S tests.



Overall, I compiled this list not because I expect something to be done about it. I compiled it for open discussion and hopes that PD might notice it and do a little better job working out the game play details in the next GT game. It really comes down to game testing. The average user should be able to bronze any event after 1 or 2 tries. They should silver event after 3-5 clean tries. Gold should be within reach by expert drivers given the circumstances. If you put cars on the track, you aren't going to run a clean lap. If you make it night time, you aren't going to hit all the apexes.
 
The Grand Tours and Endurance races are the only ones where your complaints are legit. I golded the Elise race first try. With a DS3. S-8 too. And IC-10. Have Silver on the other 2. FGT Championship is also easy.
 
With the PSN network down, I've been going back to A-spec to gold events that I never got around to. Then I remembered why. The gameplay is horribly laid out and there are massive flaws in the progression. PD spent plenty of time testing and perfecting the racing physics, but the events appear to be thrown together with no regard for what the typical driver can accomplish using the DS3 or DFGT (the official wheel of GT5) or what challenges were more difficult than others.


Classic Muscle Car Championship
Perhaps this is just a pet peiv of mine but I don't think there is a single muscle car that can compete in this event without first installing a custom transmission. Some people enjoy tuning cars but at the beginner and amateur levels of A-spec, I would expect a car straight from the dealer should be competitive. You get to Monza and the transmission tops out. Whoops. Are you telling me that a muscle car can't go faster than 110 mph?

just buy a new transmission ...
 
With the PSN network down, I've been going back to A-spec to gold events that I never got around to. Then I remembered why. The gameplay is horribly laid out and there are massive flaws in the progression. PD spent plenty of time testing and perfecting the racing physics, but the events appear to be thrown together with no regard for what the typical driver can accomplish using the DS3 or DFGT (the official wheel of GT5) or what challenges were more difficult than others.

Top Gear Test Track Intermediate (Lotus).
It takes maybe 20 minutes of practice to complete TGC 1 and 3 and receive a gold trophy, but why is 2 so difficult? First off, the brake balance is so bad on the Lotus that you spend the first hour trying to figure out the first turn. Even after that you'll still botch it up. The A.I. drivers have no trouble braking and turning but if you try to follow them into the turn your car spins uncontrollably. I feel bad for the DS3 players because I imagine even getting bronze in this is too much of a challenge.

Grand Tour Stage 1 (Eiger Norwand).
I have seen that after days of practice it is possible to get 1:15 around this track while the gold time is under 1:17. However, this is the first stage of the special event. A typical game would make each stage progressively more difficult. I spent 2 evenings getting gold on this. Stages 2, 4, and 5 were golded on the first try.

Grand Tour Stage 3 (Toscana at Night)
This is another 2-3 hour grind. To make things worse, the track changed after a patch and the course appears to be a little more difficult now. If it were daylight, the times for gold may have been appropriate, but at night when it is difficult to pick up turn apexes you have to drive slower. You need a flawless daylight lap to gold this event. I only achieved it by boosting the contrast of my TV so I could see beyond my headlights.

Rally Gran Turismo (Alaska events)
So you've picked a rally car that just barely wins the dirt event. Now you jump into the snow events. The same car is now passing the A.I. drivers, not just a few, but all of them. The A.I. needs some improvements to make the snow events a little more challenging.

We share these complaints and as you may remember, I am a DS3 user.

I can only get silver on the TGTT Lotus challenge. The first and third I'm in first before the second lap follow-through, but this one I make my pass into 2nd place on Gambon's.

Including licenses and endurance,the Formula GT, Vettel challenge and Stage 1 of the Grand Tour are the only bronze I have in the game. This was stage 1 was goodness sake. After this stage, the rest were easy. I did turn the brightness on my LCD up to the mid 70s and adjusted the contrast for the night race, but even that was more simple that stage 1.

All rally races are Easy in this game when facing the AI. If you can gold the Loeb events which is somewhat taxing...you can pass ALL AI cars in these challenges before the end. The dirt races I was winning by 4+ minutes and in the snow even more. The AI is slow in/slower out in the snow :lol:
 
The Grand Tours and Endurance races are the only ones where your complaints are legit. I golded the Elise race first try. With a DS3. S-8 too. And IC-10. Have Silver on the other 2. FGT Championship is also easy.

He is probably referring to having the Skid Force Recovery off in which case you didn't gold it the first time.

The Formula Series was the hardest series I've even done in GT and that is because I didn't touch the car before running the race; just changed the tranny as needed. But it was good fun. As for the rest of your list, I had very little problems golding everything so all I can say is practice practice practice.

Jerome
 
He is probably referring to having the Skid Force Recovery off in which case you didn't gold it the first time.

The Formula Series was the hardest series I've even done in GT and that is because I didn't touch the car before running the race; just changed the tranny as needed. But it was good fun. As for the rest of your list, I had very little problems golding everything so all I can say is practice practice practice.

Jerome

And you can prove that how? I got Bronze without, but yeah, I turned it on for Gold =P But he didn't say anything about that =P
 
I have never used SFR and it shouldn't be required to gold any event. Does the Lotus come with a SFR button on the dash in real life?
 
With the PSN network down, I've been going back to A-spec to gold events that I never got around to. Then I remembered why. The gameplay is horribly laid out and there are massive flaws in the progression. PD spent plenty of time testing and perfecting the racing physics, but the events appear to be thrown together with no regard for what the typical driver can accomplish using the DS3 or DFGT (the official wheel of GT5) or what challenges were more difficult than others.

Top Gear Test Track Intermediate (Lotus).
It takes maybe 20 minutes of practice to complete TGC 1 and 3 and receive a gold trophy, but why is 2 so difficult? First off, the brake balance is so bad on the Lotus that you spend the first hour trying to figure out the first turn. Even after that you'll still botch it up. The A.I. drivers have no trouble braking and turning but if you try to follow them into the turn your car spins uncontrollably. I feel bad for the DS3 players because I imagine even getting bronze in this is too much of a challenge.

Flight Academy Mercedes-Benz AMG Intermediate (full lap)
After completing each sector, which can be a challenge for someone unfamiliar with the track, you now have to run a 7:04 around the ring WITH traffic. Unlike the wet events, you don't get much slack in the time for mistakes. If you encounter another car at a key point on the track you might as well start over. The description says you should run at 80% to avoid mistakes, yeah right. The challenge is possible to gold, but it is the hardest of the series and should really be left to the end. The rain events are much easier because the times give some leeway for minor driver errors.

Grand Tour Stage 1 (Eiger Norwand).
I have seen that after days of practice it is possible to get 1:15 around this track while the gold time is under 1:17. However, this is the first stage of the special event. A typical game would make each stage progressively more difficult. I spent 2 evenings getting gold on this. Stages 2, 4, and 5 were golded on the first try.

Grand Tour Stage 3 (Toscana at Night)
This is another 2-3 hour grind. To make things worse, the track changed after a patch and the course appears to be a little more difficult now. If it were daylight, the times for gold may have been appropriate, but at night when it is difficult to pick up turn apexes you have to drive slower. You need a flawless daylight lap to gold this event. I only achieved it by boosting the contrast of my TV so I could see beyond my headlights.

Formula GT Championship
A vehicle specific event in the series is a great idea, but not when the vehicle isn't in the new car lot. The UCD should be reserved for finding deals on cars and picking up rare vehicles that would be fun to drive. Every event in the game should be winnable with a car from the new dealer. I could understand if the price of the car was high, but I do not understand why players are forced to cycle the UCD until a car turns up for an event. Someone mentioned the car is available in the online dealer...well if you don't have internet access or PSN is offline that doesn't help you much does it.

Endurance Races
No way to exit and come back? This should have been the #1 priority for the first patch of this game. Expecting players to run a 24 hour race in one sitting is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. Did anyone at PD even attempt it before releasing the game? Did anyone at PD even play the game start to finish before releasing it?

Classic Muscle Car Championship
Perhaps this is just a pet peiv of mine but I don't think there is a single muscle car that can compete in this event without first installing a custom transmission. Some people enjoy tuning cars but at the beginner and amateur levels of A-spec, I would expect a car straight from the dealer should be competitive. You get to Monza and the transmission tops out. Whoops. Are you telling me that a muscle car can't go faster than 110 mph?

Rally Gran Turismo Beginner
Wait 1 minute for map to load. Wait 1 minute for cars in front of you to drive off. Drive for 45 seconds. Repeat. Who's idea of fun was this? If you make a mistake, you'll have to start from the beginning again since there is no way to repeat a sector...and it will be different next time anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't rally drivers at least get a recon lap on the sector?

Rally Gran Turismo (Alaska events)
So you've picked a rally car that just barely wins the dirt event. Now you jump into the snow events. The same car is now passing the A.I. drivers, not just a few, but all of them. The A.I. needs some improvements to make the snow events a little more challenging.

License Tests
These become hot and cold. Some you get gold on the 2nd try, others you spend hours trying to figure out. I don't mind having to work for gold, but the order should be considered so that more difficult challenges appear in later license tests. Here are the highlights...

A-8 (Schumaker S)
Such a simple turn, yet to get gold you will run it endlessly trying to squeeze 100ths of a second out of it. For me this was the most difficult single car test. Drop the gold time by 1/10th and it probably would have been fine.

IC-2 (Trial Mountain banked left turn)
I know the track very well and can usually nail this turn in any car. However the gold time was extremely difficult to achieve. This test should have been saved for later or the times raised.

IC-10 (Rome with 512BB)
Lots of people had trouble with this one. It is arguably more difficult than some of the S license tests. After learning this track, I came back to it though. It's not that hard if you are familiar with the track but you have to be very aggressive on the first few turns, and the the 512BB doesn't respond well to heavy braking.

S-8 (Suzuka)
This really should have been the S-10 test. It was the most difficult for me even though I was familiar with the track. Some of the other S license tests were relatively easy. I spent more time on the Schumaker S than most S tests.



Overall, I compiled this list not because I expect something to be done about it. I compiled it for open discussion and hopes that PD might notice it and do a little better job working out the game play details in the next GT game. It really comes down to game testing. The average user should be able to bronze any event after 1 or 2 tries. They should silver event after 3-5 clean tries. Gold should be within reach by expert drivers given the circumstances. If you put cars on the track, you aren't going to run a clean lap. If you make it night time, you aren't going to hit all the apexes.

I use a DS3 and when I first got the game, the TGTT challenges were impossible to do anything but bronze. After I had moved through the ranks up to A spec lvl 30ish, I popped back in there and golded the first and third and hit silver by a svelt margin on the middle race which I golded with a few more tries.

I think the driving academy is a fine challenge, and I think while you are correct, realistically the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Difficulty is subjective, and as such some other racers may find it much more difficult to drive in the wet. I think PD rightly assumed that driving a higher powered car in the wet is more difficult than weaving through traffic.

The Grand Tours I thought were silly. Driving at night in this game is totally unrealistic, yet I'm at a loss for how a driving game could really better simulate this? Still though, in terms of scaled difficulty here, I think you're off base. I'm not certain it matters where the hard tracks lie in the order.

Formula GT I think is a great race, and there should be more 1 make races where the playing field is leveled. That said, while the race is/was fun, I thought the online Ferrari events were a million times better. I think it's foolish for them to put the car in the UCD only, especially at such a high price, but being that the UCD isn't "random" you may have noticed that if you progressed "the way that PD had wanted you to" that the FGT shows up in the UCD at just about the right time. Even still, I can tell you that while I generally think B-spec is completely pointless, not having the FGT, or a DTM car, or a JGTC car, I simply said... well, I guess I'll start running B-spec to cycle the UCD until they show up. This did great things for me in terms of money, rare cars (used to trade for expensive cars), and getting the AMG Merc 190, and the FTO STC. So think of it in terms of game play longevity. PD FORCED you to WORK to get a formula car.

No saving in the endurance races is just plain asinine.

As for classic muscle. Almost everything about the American cars (as an American) makes me a tad upset. The fantastic noise that my fully tuned Dodge Ram makes (sarcasm) same with my vintage corvette, the fact that these cars topped out in the race as you mentioned, however the top speeds of many of these muscle cars was only in the 100-130 range depending on transmission... so technically, this nuisance is accurate. Seriously though... I enjoy the sound of the "Japanese exhausts" (ugh that makes it (and me) sound racist) but not on a muscle car or an American truck? Save it for the sport compacts!

Rallying is awful in game. No question. 1000 minutes for loading and 20 second of racing. Awful. The snow was shocking to me as well... I was thinking my driving got better... until I went back to the dirt. Totally boring though.

License testing. Again, subjective. Yes some events are disproportionately hard TO GOLD, but that's the premise of this game. I don't think there should be any order aside from some sort of educational order (RUAC for those of you who educate out there).

Sorry for the long post.
 
The Lotus thing on TGTT is easy as hell.. what are you smoking?

I beat it on the second try (accidentally bumped into the AI who checked up the first) with a DS3 and i'm not a great driver. The car is supposed to be out of whack, thats why its on TGTT.. der. The AI struggle with it as well, make it to the middle on the down side of the track, dont know what the turn is called.. but i had 2 AI wipe out on what is the easiest turn on the track.

Its just a matter of controlling a car that doesnt want to drive like a normal car.


And I fail to see how the PSN being offline causing the FGT not to be in the OCD is a game failure.. its a PSN failure buddy.
 
I have never used SFR and it shouldn't be required to gold any event. Does the Lotus come with a SFR button on the dash in real life?

No it doesn't. But the event was still relatively easy.
 
I have no comment on the difficulty of the FGT races...as I have yet to acquire the car. My comment was merely to highlight the fact you can't easily purchase the car. I did the Grand Valley enduro the other day and was bored about 15 minutes into it. I put on comfort tires after gaining a 30 second lead. I fell back almost a minute and then went back to sport soft tires to catch up. I started pitting every 10 laps so I could at least have fun passing cars. I'm not sure how I will cope with the other enduro events that are much longer.

I know the license tests are subjective and everyone has trouble with one or another. I had trouble with several others but it wasn't because they were too difficult, it was because I needed to learn the racing line. The corkscrew at Laguna Seca is an example. I just had to keep practicing my braking point until I could get the right entry and exit speeds.

Maybe skid recovery force is the missing link to some of this. I have always had it off and enjoyed the challenge of tuning cars to drive without it. I was also told it usually made you slower just like traction control.

I have played quite a few racing games in my time and never has the game progression been so sporadic. I seriously spent 4 hours on that Grand Tour Eiger track squeezing a 10th here and there until I could lay down a perfect lap. Then I golded part 2 of the tour on my first attempt. Spent 2 solid hours in the dark with the lambo to get gold, then 10 minutes to gold the final 2 tracks.
 
And I fail to see how the PSN being offline causing the FGT not to be in the OCD is a game failure.. its a PSN failure buddy.
Not everyone with a playstation has internet access and PSN accounts. I have been racing and checking the UCD for a week and the car hasn't showed up yet. I'm not intentionally cycling the lot, I just run some races and check it every time I am in the menu.
 
I definitely agree with the endurance races. Acquiring the FGT can be a problem if you don't have access to online, and hence, the OCD is unavailable to you. Everything else is manageable since previous patches were implemented.


Heck, I got all golds on the Top Gear challenges (including the Elise one) before steering sensitivity was adjustable. All the license test woes now are stupidly easy now since most penalties were pretty much abolished. The rest aren't terribly difficult. Practice, practice, and more practice. And yes, I'm a DS3 user.
 
The failures in gameplay of GT5 are...no gameplay failures. It's perfect as a simulation.

In case you're wondering, gameplay actually refers to how good it is to play the game, not bad and hard parts of the game.

Although I still haven't found the time to do the FGT Championship. Yet I've done 4 endurances. Insane.
 
Most of my gripes are about the order, not the difficulty. I know everything is possible to complete. I would have liked to seen it in a more enjoyable order so you felt more and more challenged as things progressed.
 
Heck, I got all golds on the Top Gear challenges (including the Elise one) before steering sensitivity was adjustable. All the license test woes now are stupidly easy now since most penalties were pretty much abolished. The rest aren't terribly difficult. Practice, practice, and more practice. And yes, I'm a DS3 user.
Try turn 1 of the TGTT Lotus race with no aids on except abs=1. I've got golds on everything except that one all done without aids. Oh, and the Vettel challenges which I haven't even bothered with.
 
Try turn 1 of the TGTT Lotus race with no aids on except abs=1. I've got golds on everything except that one all done without aids. Oh, and the Vettel challenges which I haven't even bothered with.


That's exactly what I did. The Vettel challenges though, I can't comment you on that yet. Come back in a few years. :sick: :yuck:
 
So you want an easy game? You might aswell sell your GT5.
And for AMG acedemy it says:
"If you find that you're having difficulties try driving at 80% of your limit"
 
Hi Chuyler1, what do you exactly mean by "gameplay failures"? I thought you were making a list of the game's bugs which isn't the case apparently.

If a challenge is hard to achieve in gold i don't think we can call it a "gameplay failure".
 
Read the OP:

"the events appear to be thrown together with no regard for what the typical driver can accomplish using the DS3 or DFGT (the official wheel of GT5) or what challenges were more difficult than others."

I dont believe the gameplay failures are difficulty related. I think he's more interested in why the game is set-up so that races/stages that are more difficult to the average driver are available ahead of races/stages that are simple
 
These aren't really what I would consider "gameplay" failures.

I think in terms of difficulty level they are nigh-on perfect. Anyone with a bit of a feel for it can do them with a bit of practice, but they're harder for some than for others. If they were easy they wouldn't be tests or challenges at all.
 
Top Gear Test Track Intermediate (Lotus).
It takes maybe 20 minutes of practice to complete TGC 1 and 3 and receive a gold trophy, but why is 2 so difficult? First off, the brake balance is so bad on the Lotus that you spend the first hour trying to figure out the first turn. Even after that you'll still botch it up. The A.I. drivers have no trouble braking and turning but if you try to follow them into the turn your car spins uncontrollably. I feel bad for the DS3 players because I imagine even getting bronze in this is too much of a challenge.

Endurance Races
No way to exit and come back? This should have been the #1 priority for the first patch of this game. Expecting players to run a 24 hour race in one sitting is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. Did anyone at PD even attempt it before releasing the game? Did anyone at PD even play the game start to finish before releasing it?

License Tests
These become hot and cold. Some you get gold on the 2nd try, others you spend hours trying to figure out. I don't mind having to work for gold, but the order should be considered so that more difficult challenges appear in later license tests.

I didn't find that as hard as you, quite a few tries but not a major annoyance

Couldn't agree more, but it's "in development" or in other words they were silly to leave it out and it may soon be patched in.

Well you would expect some to be harder than others so the order of the tests are your real complaint, which I agree with. You may be forgetting that some parts of some tracks may suit your driving style more than others making them seem much easier.
 
My biggest gripe is spelled out in the OP as "The gameplay is horribly laid out and there are massive flaws in the progression."

These are not bugs, or things that are broken (well except for the enduro one). They are hiccups you encounter when trying to make progress in the game. As your skills improve, the events should get more difficult. If I am having trouble getting silver on an intermediate event, one would think getting gold on the next event should be even more difficult.

I have 60 gold license trophies yet I can't gold the intermediate TGTT event? I have to turn SFR on for that? That event is available very early in the game. Maybe they just chose the wrong car. For those who say its easy, turn off SFR and try it again. The car starts oversteering as soon as you touch the brakes in turn 1. I watched several videos on youtube just now. it's not my brake point, or how much brake i'm using. everyone must have SFR on to keep the car from instantly drifting.
 
chuyler1
With the PSN network down, I've been going back to A-spec to gold events that I never got around to. Then I remembered why. The gameplay is horribly laid out and there are massive flaws in the progression. PD spent plenty of time testing and perfecting the racing physics, but the events appear to be thrown together with no regard for what the typical driver can accomplish using the DS3 or DFGT (the official wheel of GT5) or what challenges were more difficult than others.

Top Gear Test Track Intermediate (Lotus).
It takes maybe 20 minutes of practice to complete TGC 1 and 3 and receive a gold trophy, but why is 2 so difficult? First off, the brake balance is so bad on the Lotus that you spend the first hour trying to figure out the first turn. Even after that you'll still botch it up. The A.I. drivers have no trouble braking and turning but if you try to follow them into the turn your car spins uncontrollably. I feel bad for the DS3 players because I imagine even getting bronze in this is too much of a challenge.

Flight Academy Mercedes-Benz AMG Intermediate (full lap)
After completing each sector, which can be a challenge for someone unfamiliar with the track, you now have to run a 7:04 around the ring WITH traffic. Unlike the wet events, you don't get much slack in the time for mistakes. If you encounter another car at a key point on the track you might as well start over. The description says you should run at 80% to avoid mistakes, yeah right. The challenge is possible to gold, but it is the hardest of the series and should really be left to the end. The rain events are much easier because the times give some leeway for minor driver errors.

Grand Tour Stage 1 (Eiger Norwand).
I have seen that after days of practice it is possible to get 1:15 around this track while the gold time is under 1:17. However, this is the first stage of the special event. A typical game would make each stage progressively more difficult. I spent 2 evenings getting gold on this. Stages 2, 4, and 5 were golded on the first try.

Grand Tour Stage 3 (Toscana at Night)
This is another 2-3 hour grind. To make things worse, the track changed after a patch and the course appears to be a little more difficult now. If it were daylight, the times for gold may have been appropriate, but at night when it is difficult to pick up turn apexes you have to drive slower. You need a flawless daylight lap to gold this event. I only achieved it by boosting the contrast of my TV so I could see beyond my headlights.

Formula GT Championship
A vehicle specific event in the series is a great idea, but not when the vehicle isn't in the new car lot. The UCD should be reserved for finding deals on cars and picking up rare vehicles that would be fun to drive. Every event in the game should be winnable with a car from the new dealer. I could understand if the price of the car was high, but I do not understand why players are forced to cycle the UCD until a car turns up for an event. Someone mentioned the car is available in the online dealer...well if you don't have internet access or PSN is offline that doesn't help you much does it.

Endurance Races
No way to exit and come back? This should have been the #1 priority for the first patch of this game. Expecting players to run a 24 hour race in one sitting is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. Did anyone at PD even attempt it before releasing the game? Did anyone at PD even play the game start to finish before releasing it?

Classic Muscle Car Championship
Perhaps this is just a pet peiv of mine but I don't think there is a single muscle car that can compete in this event without first installing a custom transmission. Some people enjoy tuning cars but at the beginner and amateur levels of A-spec, I would expect a car straight from the dealer should be competitive. You get to Monza and the transmission tops out. Whoops. Are you telling me that a muscle car can't go faster than 110 mph?

Rally Gran Turismo Beginner
Wait 1 minute for map to load. Wait 1 minute for cars in front of you to drive off. Drive for 45 seconds. Repeat. Who's idea of fun was this? If you make a mistake, you'll have to start from the beginning again since there is no way to repeat a sector...and it will be different next time anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't rally drivers at least get a recon lap on the sector?

Rally Gran Turismo (Alaska events)
So you've picked a rally car that just barely wins the dirt event. Now you jump into the snow events. The same car is now passing the A.I. drivers, not just a few, but all of them. The A.I. needs some improvements to make the snow events a little more challenging.

License Tests
These become hot and cold. Some you get gold on the 2nd try, others you spend hours trying to figure out. I don't mind having to work for gold, but the order should be considered so that more difficult challenges appear in later license tests. Here are the highlights...

A-8 (Schumaker S)
Such a simple turn, yet to get gold you will run it endlessly trying to squeeze 100ths of a second out of it. For me this was the most difficult single car test. Drop the gold time by 1/10th and it probably would have been fine.

IC-2 (Trial Mountain banked left turn)
I know the track very well and can usually nail this turn in any car. However the gold time was extremely difficult to achieve. This test should have been saved for later or the times raised.

IC-10 (Rome with 512BB)
Lots of people had trouble with this one. It is arguably more difficult than some of the S license tests. After learning this track, I came back to it though. It's not that hard if you are familiar with the track but you have to be very aggressive on the first few turns, and the the 512BB doesn't respond well to heavy braking.

S-8 (Suzuka)
This really should have been the S-10 test. It was the most difficult for me even though I was familiar with the track. Some of the other S license tests were relatively easy. I spent more time on the Schumaker S than most S tests.

Overall, I compiled this list not because I expect something to be done about it. I compiled it for open discussion and hopes that PD might notice it and do a little better job working out the game play details in the next GT game. It really comes down to game testing. The average user should be able to bronze any event after 1 or 2 tries. They should silver event after 3-5 clean tries. Gold should be within reach by expert drivers given the circumstances. If you put cars on the track, you aren't going to run a clean lap. If you make it night time, you aren't going to hit all the apexes.

And why did you tell us that?
 
My biggest gripe is spelled out in the OP as "The gameplay is horribly laid out and there are massive flaws in the progression."

These are not bugs, or things that are broken (well except for the enduro one). They are hiccups you encounter when trying to make progress in the game. As your skills improve, the events should get more difficult. If I am having trouble getting silver on an intermediate event, one would think getting gold on the next event should be even more difficult.

I have 60 gold license trophies yet I can't gold the intermediate TGTT event? I have to turn SFR on for that? That event is available very early in the game. Maybe they just chose the wrong car. For those who say its easy, turn off SFR and try it again. The car starts oversteering as soon as you touch the brakes in turn 1. I watched several videos on youtube just now. it's not my brake point, or how much brake i'm using. everyone must have SFR on to keep the car from instantly drifting.

I did it with no SRF on a DS3. Took me about 10 attempts, though.
 
A-8 was relatively easy for me. I just kept on the inside of the kerbs. It was the double hairpin IC-3 that I really struggled with (I still haven't golded it yet)
 
A-8 was relatively easy for me. I just kept on the inside of the kerbs. It was the double hairpin IC-3 that I really struggled with (I still haven't golded it yet)
IC-3 was tough, but I felt it fit well in the progression. I didn't spend as long on that one as I did A-8 though.
 
I think the OP raises some interesting and valid points.

However, I wouldn't consider anything the OP listed to be a "gameplay failure". I'd say their more "game progression incongruities".
(Although, life in general isn't a nice and tidy where things start out easy and gradually/consistently get harder sort of place. It's not terribly far out of place to have some difficulty fluctuation through the course of the game.)


Even with being new to the GT series, if you ask me, GT5 was a rushed and incomplete offering.
(Despite that, it's still an addictive and incredibly fun game to play - that has left my PS3 for only a few hours since it was released.)

Counting the things that have already been fixed and/or added, there's too many bugs/quirks/glitches that still exist in the game to worry about the order things were laid out.
(At least the general progression path is fairly wide open, which means if you're stuck/frustrated/dejected/defeated, you should more than likely be able to change up what you're doing and come back to it later - while still enjoying the game and progressing.)

Peace...
 
I agree with you about Grand Tour, very frustrating experience for me as well. As far as the license test, all matter of opinion.
You bring up some good grips and some new ones I have not heard yet, honestly there is so much more also. But you have to weigh the good vs bad. IMO there is too many good things going on with this game that far out weigh the shortcomings. Thats just me though. :D
 
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