Lister to Build the 670hp, 200mph LFP, the World's Fastest SUV
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May i confirm that you read the post correctly ?Now there's something I never thought I'd see, someone in Kuwait talking about fuel prices
That was copied from a site.
If you read my first sentences "before" the points from that site - i never complained about fuel.
Second - please draw a red line about using my country as a way to prove your points about economy - you really don't know what you're getting into since you don't know exactly what's going on in the middle east about oil prices.
The prices had increased double compared to the past & people are starting to pick V4 & V6 more than V8 lately as i was informed.
Please don't turn this personal.
Despite of higher oil prices - thankfully hybrid V8s & eco modes helps to solve that issue for better MPGs thankfully.
Back to word about SUVs VS Sedans.
I think we can use hydrolic suspensions on sedans to increase heights & decrease it based on our choice
Let's not forget about off road sedans like what was mentioned "Subaru Impreza"
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Danoff
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Let's not forget about off road sedans like what was mentioned "Subaru Impreza"
My neighbor has a WRX. It got stuck last year in a snow storm. His SUV and mine made it through the same spot no problem. He uses winter tires. His SUV had studs (mine did not), but the studs would not have helped in the deep snow.
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Danoff
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Um ... Hydraulic Suspension to increase height ?
I'm sure it'll make a difference if you can increase it's height manually by installing hydraulic suspension
I think more than enabling a low slung car to perform well in the snow, that would be better employed on an SUV. I could drop my SUV's ride height for most of the time (maybe an inch), and then boost it even more than its current height in the snow.
People generally find it more comfortable to deal with cars that are a bit taller (like SUVs) on a daily basis, and they don't want their car to look like its on stilts to accomplish that - they want it to look proportionate and filled out at that height.
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Joey D
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I figured the (
) was enough to show it was lighthearted, guess humor's lost on some. And no one picks V4's unless they're buying old Lancia's, Saab's, or ZAZ's. Although it's Kuwait, so some oil sheik might be driving around a Porsche 919. I mean your country does have one of, if not the, highest valued currencies in the entire world.
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You're talking about one particular aspect of safety (rollovers). I know I'd rather be in a Macan than a Miata if there were an unavoidable collision with another road-going crossover — although if I were choosing which was hitting me as a pedestrian, I'd much prefer the Miata.
I'm with @Danoff here. What inevitably happens with news of a performance crossover like the Lister is a bunch of loud noises from a vocal minority about how SUVs are the vehicular equivalent of the devil. They'll trumpet the idea that a dedicated sports car is better at ten-tenths as if that's a revelation, missing the point.
Considering this is GTPlanet, how about a similar situation: the sim racing wheel elitists. Is a wheel the most immersive input device for a realistic racing game? Sure. Is it vastly more money than the controller that comes with a console? Bingo. How's it work with a playthrough of Uncharted?
Performance crossovers don't rank highly on my personal dream drive wishlist, but I certainly understand their appeal in the real world we actually live in. That they also tend to be cash cows, enabling companies like Porsche (or Jag) to thrive and build the cars I do covet, is a bonus in my books.
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Makes sense - of course you want to get hit by something that's larger and heavier than you/your car less. Though personally, I think being in a car with a five-star (or maybe even four-star) safety rating should be well enough.I know I'd rather be in a Macan than a Miata if there were an unavoidable collision with another road-going crossover — although if I were choosing which was hitting me as a pedestrian, I'd much prefer the Miata.
I have a much, much better example: petrol engine and/or manual gearbox elitists.
Oh boy, don't you love reading their complaints about how EVs lack soul and how manual transmission is the only way to, like, TRULY drive a car.
The thought of performance SUVs being an automotive equivalent of Call of Duty and Battlefield made me giggle.
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I have a much, much better example: petrol engine and/or manual gearbox elitists.
Oh boy, don't you love reading their complaints about how EVs lack soul and how manual transmission is the only way to, like, TRULY drive a car.
I'm really not sure that's even an appropriate analogy--much less a better one. The implication was that if you're looking for an all-out performance vehicle (the sim racing wheel in the anology) and indeed get one, there's really only one thing for which it works well (sim racing)--try taking it off the beaten path (Uncharted playthrough) and see just how useless it is.
A performance SUV doesn't make any claim to be ideal for true performance driving, but it satisfies that desire for increased performance that those seeking a number of other attributes may have.
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You're picking on - everything unnecessary to be corrected which was mentioned by me earlier - to correct things that it should had been clear to you ( when i said V4 i meant 4 cylinder cars - not necessarily V shaped 4 cylinders, and i regret my mistake on not fixing that mistake - which gave you the reason to pick on it to correct unnecessary things ) also you're not making humors - more like making fun of me here by using my country & Sheikh in your points.I figured the (
And no one picks V4's unless they're buying old Lancia's, Saab's, or ZAZ's. Although it's Kuwait, so some oil sheik might be driving around a Porsche 919. I mean your country does have one of, if not the, highest valued currencies in the entire world.
I gave you early notice ( my country is a red line - don't bring it in your conversation about economy ) then you switched into the available expensive cars owned by sheikhs after talking about economy.
Now you talked twice about something related to oil which makes it two times you're picking about that i don't have the right to complain about economy & neither worry since it's easy to buy expensive cars ( as you wrongly assumed ) here so i shouldn't TALK IN THE FIRST PLACE !?
Look - i remind you again i never complained in the first place about Economy before stating a copied points from another website about SUVs disadvantages.
When i put SUVs disadvantages which are true in every place - you choose me to limb me with your logic about ( which it looks clear ) about me on not having the right to talk about economy just because of oil and the ease of owning expensive cars ( <<< which again you wrongly assumed ) just because i live in a place with good condition when it comes to economy ?
Isn't that racist enough when you limb my country in your conversation to silence me when i mentioned somethings copied from a website related to economy which i never complained about in the first place ?
Again you don't know what you're talking about.
Most expensive cars in my place are a used old cars which it's price had hit the ground.
Ironically you can now buy 2008 porsches at prices lower than a Ford Explorer ( heck even less than some normal full option Chevrolet cars ) so don't talk like you know everything in my place.
I hate it when people think that in every turn in my place - you see Porsche - Rolls Royce & Maseratis.
Most our cars here are Camry's & Land Cruiser.
If you talk about sheikhs i don't care what they own because in our generation you can buy an old Rolls Royce for a price close to Mercedes Benz E-Class highest option ( which is a car i rarely see new models in my place )
I almost forgot - there are people in my place who rent expensive cars just to look good infront of their friends or families.
I don't know the exact percentage, but they're common.
Ok back to word about the ease on owning expensive cars in my place ( which you've wrongly assumed )
Did you know that our Mercedes dealership don't have new cars ( based on latest information i got ) but only older models sold AT THE FREAKEN SHOW ROOM which should have new cars ?
Did you know that most people here own old Japanese cars from early 2010s & older ?
Did you know that most American cars here are also older models from also 2012s & below ?
Even Infiniti & Jaguar dealerships are near DEAD on selling their cars here ?
When the oil prices just doubled everyone had started to go for 4 Cylinder & 6 Cylinder cars here mostly.
Also when you mentioned our ( Sheikhs ) your racism are showing.
Right when you talked about my country like 'you know it all' i had a feeling that this conversation will shift into unwanted points.
I don't think you have ever visited there, give it a visit here and see if i'm wrong on my previous statements.
You're talking about one particular aspect of safety (rollovers). I know I'd rather be in a Macan than a Miata if there were an unavoidable collision with another road-going crossover — although if I were choosing which was hitting me as a pedestrian, I'd much prefer the Miata.
I'm with @Danoff here. What inevitably happens with news of a performance crossover like the Lister is a bunch of loud noises from a vocal minority about how SUVs are the vehicular equivalent of the devil. They'll trumpet the idea that a dedicated sports car is better at ten-tenths as if that's a revelation, missing the point.
Considering this is GTPlanet, how about a similar situation: the sim racing wheel elitists. Is a wheel the most immersive input device for a realistic racing game? Sure. Is it vastly more money than the controller that comes with a console? Bingo. How's it work with a playthrough of Uncharted?
Performance crossovers don't rank highly on my personal dream drive wishlist, but I certainly understand their appeal in the real world we actually live in. That they also tend to be cash cows, enabling companies like Porsche (or Jag) to thrive and build the cars I do covet, is a bonus in my books.
Fair points but my real issue isn't the existence of SUVs, my real issue is making them too fast.
Of course & it's obvious that companies are seeking cash cows in their cars fleet to build their empires XD
So to sum things up - i'm against ( crazy fast SUVs ) but not against the existence of SUVs.
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Joey D
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Look, I get that English probably isn't your first language and things might get lost in translation. But talking factually about Kuwait, it is one of the richest nations on Earth and is petroleum based, isn't racism. I'm also not talking ill about Kuwait either. You're right, I don't know much past it's a petroleum-based economy, has some of the cheapest and most affordable petrol prices in the world, and that the US fought a war over the Iraqi invasion in the early 90's.
All I did was say I found it strange to see someone from Kuwait mentioning fuel prices at all. I never mentioned that you couldn't complain about the price. It's a discussion board and you're free to post nearly anything you'd like to post.
And no, I've never been to Kuwait, nor is it on my list of places I want to go.
Look, I get that English probably isn't your first language and things might get lost in translation. But talking factually about Kuwait, it is one of the richest nations on Earth and is petroleum based, isn't racism. I'm also not talking ill about Kuwait either. You're right, I don't know much past it's a petroleum-based economy, has some of the cheapest and most affordable petrol prices in the world, and that the US fought a war over the Iraqi invasion in the early 90's.
All I did was say I found it strange to see someone from Kuwait mentioning fuel prices at all. I never mentioned that you couldn't complain about the price. It's a discussion board and you're free to post nearly anything you'd like to post.
And no, I've never been to Kuwait, nor is it on my list of places I want to go.
Danoff
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Why?
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For most people yes, but as you allude to in a later post not all people.
I don't have anything against SUV's and they do what they are designed to do well, just they aren't a do and end all vehicle for everyone. For us that will always be a station wagon purely because they are easier for Mrs Shaun to get into because they are lower.
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If you mentioned it in the first place that you didn't intend to offend or talking ill but just stating facts - i would have had a different response.
All in all - my apology for being hasty X)
To be honest i feel embarrassed for jumping the gun X)
But what i said was true that the fuel prices has doubled so the situation has changed since then - when it comes to people owning new cars lately < : )
To confirm one more time - before i mentioned the disadvantage points about SUV which was copied from other site - right before that - i never complained about economy in the first place.
More like it was one of the disadvantages which was copied by me from other site.
Because it's more dangerous due to roll over risk.
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Danoff
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Danoff
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But all cars are more dangerous than other cars at high speed, in different ways. For example, some cars are higher fire risks. Other cars are more unstable. Other cars have worse brakes.
The mistake you are making is to think that for some reason it makes sense to compare an SUV to some other hypothetical car at that speed. You might as well have said that you're against fast motorcycles because they're more dangerous to the motorcycle rider. Or that you're against 18 wheelers because they're more dangerous in windy conditions (and other conditions as well).
If you're against people putting you at risk on the road, you should be against anything with 670 hp. If you're against people putting themselves at risk on the road you should hate miatas and motorcycles.
You're drawing a very specific line here, against a very specific set of vehicle parameters, and your line just looks like arbitrary bias.
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Alright i'll be more specific
Compared to Sedans & Coupes - the SUV is more dangerous on high speed.
I know what you mean by each car is dangerous in it's own way.
To me - SUV should be limited to about 500 HP not higher than that, But for coupes & Sedans - they have the potential to be less dangerous when having higher than 500 HP since they're more stable than SUVs.
About people putting me at risk - i was referring to solo driving.
Danoff
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Alright i'll be more specific
Compared to Sedans & Coupes - the SUV is more dangerous on high speed.
I know what you mean by each car is dangerous in it's own way.
To me - SUV should be limited to about 500 HP not higher than that, But for coupes & Sedans - they have the potential to be less dangerous when having higher than 500 HP since they're more stable than SUVs.
About people putting me at risk - i was referring to solo driving.
At what horsepower do you think sedans and coupes should be limited? Because I assume that you have limits for every kind of car. What about motorcycles? Give me your hp limit for each of the following kinds of road-going vehicles:
- Pickup Truck
- SUV
- Semi-Truck
- Wagon
- Sedan
- Coupe (2+2)
- Coupe (3 seater)
- Coupe (2 seater)
- Convertible Sedan
- Convertible Coupe (2+2)
- Convertible Coupe (3 seater)
- Convertible Coupe (2 seater)
- Motorcyle
- 3 wheeler
- Open-wheel 2 seater
- Stretch sedan
- Stretch SUV
- Carboat
- Boatcar
Also, do your HP limits change when considering towing?
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Um - i'm not an expert to answer each car list exactly the preferred kind of HP.
Also my reference was meant for sport Sedans - Coupes & SUVs.
Sedans can range from 2 doors to 5 doors & Vise Versa for Coupes.
I remembered that the factories had given you the ignition key options to limit HPs like BMW M5 ( 400HP Key & 500HP+ Key )
I also remembered that even LM cars are limited to 600HP by ( i think ) FIA for safety.
Also in nurburgring they even limited top speed with ( i think HP ) for safety.
If we're talking about road driving - no matter what car you drive - either use power restrictors ( keys ) or simply doing both by minding your speed limit & using power restrictors systems
If they want to go beyond 600 either be on race track or drag racing.
For SUVs - on the road if there is a chance for power restriction it's better be below 400HP.
On race track it better be limited to 500HP.
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Danoff
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Just an expert on SUVs then?
Also my reference was meant for sport Sedans - Coupes & SUVs.
Sedans can range from 2 doors to 5 doors & Vise Versa for Coupes.
I remembered that the factories had given you the ignition key options to limit HPs like BMW M5 ( 400HP Key & 500HP+ Key )
I also remembered that even LM cars are limited to 600HP by ( i think ) FIA for safety.
Also in nurburgring they even limited top speed with ( i think HP ) for safety.
If we're talking about road driving - no matter what car you drive - either use power restrictors ( keys ) or simply doing both by minding your speed limit & using power restrictors systems
So like, the Camaro and the Corvette produce too much horsepower for what you think people should use on the road?
I'm curious about your track driving experience. I find that on the race track I have less need of horsepower, not more. I'd be more likely to kill myself with 500hp on the track than the street. On the street you punch it for about 1 second and you're doing over the speed limit and you giggle a bit and you're done. On the race track... you're doing 1 million miles per hour at the end of the straight and crapped yourself.
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Excuse me ?
I'm not an expert completely at all LOL
I never said i was an expert in the first place! LOL
Those were my suggestions based on my experience because i driven Coupe - Sedan & SUV X)
Also why are you very aggressive in your questioning ?
I feel like i'm being threatened by a lion with it's fangs on my throat XP
Take it easy man - we're not in a court XP
I feel like i'm a witness & you're the prosecutor XP
Yes the corvette & camaros if they pass 400HP mark - one wrong move at a certain conditions could be fatal ( i'm looking at you Mustangs memes )
On the race track - needing less horse power works on Autocross, but higher HP works on circuits like De La Sarthe Le Mans.
In short - it depends on the type of track.
So for 600HPs you need bigger circuits.
"On the street you punch it for about 1 second and you're doing over the speed limit"
1 second ?
That's a little exaggerating XP
It depends how much you want to speed up from a certain speed depending on your car setup ( Sport mode - Eco or Normal etc ) like if you're in Autobahn - you can go way higher speed.
To be honest - who sane person would punch a car ( hard acceleration ) with 600HP in towns or let alone normal roads ?
400HP is already scary if you push hard on a certain roads.
"I find that on the race track I have less need of horsepower, not more. I'd be more likely to kill myself with 500hp on the track than the street. On the street you punch it for about 1 second and you're doing over the speed limit and you giggle a bit and you're done. On the race track... you're doing 1 million miles per hour at the end of the straight and crapped yourself."
So i take it that you think it's ironic to have high HP car on the road while you don't need a high HP car on the race track ?
Did i just read that right ?
I'm having difficulty to comprehend your direction on your response.
I'll try to analyze your reply.
If you don't need high HP on race track then the conclusion - your fun is limited to a low HP sports cars on the race track ( and that's a respected opinion ) and you find it ironic to have a high HP just to push it for 1 second for giggles ?
My point isn't how much fun you get with high HP cars on the road - my point is the danger of pushing a high HP car on the road ( especially cars like SUVs )
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Danoff
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I understand your point.
The desire to have gobs of horsepower (in the US) is driven by street driving experiences. You want to punch it and pass instantly. You want to take off at a stop light. You want to fly down the on-ramp to merge. It's driven by the desire to go from 0-60 (more like 0-80) in tons of situations in a very short period. For unlimited speed situations like the autobahn that performance is more usable, but the reason to have a Bugatti Veyron is not to be able to do 250 mph down the autobahn. It's to jump up to high speeds quickly and hold it there briefly until you have to back off because traffic. Then you flash your lights or honk or give them a little rude salute and then take off again. Even at the autobahn, the high horsepower desire is to accelerate for brief periods quickly.
At the track the goal is to accelerate all the way down the straight until the last possible second. In between straights, horsepower is difficult to tap and you rely on handling. Obviously it depends on the track, some tracks are higher speed than others. Mostly what horsepower does at the track is help you take off down the straight, and add to the brown stain in your underwear going in to turn 1. Again, it depends on the track, I'm generalizing.
I have driven moderately high horsepower cars on the street (I think my highest figure to date is a mere 415hp) and not thought to myself "gosh that was too much". On the street it basically never feels like too much, because you never tap it long enough to scare yourself (unless you're crazy). Some exceptions apply, but mostly those exceptions have to do with how power gets put down rather than how much there is on tap. I had zero problem hopping in to the 415hp car and punching it on a city street. I didn't put anyone in danger or get a ticket either, still had fun.
Would I have taken that same 415hp car to the track? Uh... I'm not sure I have the stones for that (based on my current driving ability).
Here's the point I want to convey when it comes to your track hp vs. road hp. At the track, low horsepower cars can be a blast, and high horsepower cars can be scary. On the road, low horsepower cars can be dull (you will not get bored at the track), and high horsepower cars are usually not scary. The point? High horsepower is ironically for the road (and the drag strip). The market demand for it is based on peoples' road driving experience.
Ok, after that long winded explanation. Back to my take home point about SUVs... who cares? If people want a 670 monster hp sport SUV because they want a car that does all things, why does anyone (especially a car enthusiast) tell them they're wrong?
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It was a reasonable question: if you have the hard horsepower limit for SUVs (for "reasons"), other cars must have similar ceilings:
You're plucking numbers out of thin air. If your concern is road safety, no vehicle would have 400hp; that's far more than necessary for safe road speeds. In terms of rollover, a Mercedes A-Class in the 90s famously flipped doing a whopping... 60km/h. That had significantly less than 200hp.
Technology always marches forward, and the upper limits of performance move alongside. At the turn of the century, the general line of thinking about hot hatches was 200hp was pretty much the limit. Now, front-drive cars with 300hp have less of a problem with torque-steer than cars with half that from 30 years ago. They're clicking off sub 7:50 laps at the 'Ring.
A 670hp SUV is "pointless" in the same way the car in your avatar is. But we wouldn't begrudge someone proclaiming their affinity for a GT-R. This all comes off as you simply not liking a type of vehicle — which is perfectly acceptable, everyone has preferences — but trying to rationalize it with "logic".
I haven't driven any of the modern batch of performance crossovers yet, but I have had a pro driver sling me around a race track in the back of a Panamera. The arguments against crossovers can largely be applied to that car too — it's two tons, after all, and surely more car than what most people "need" — but I couldn't even hold a camera steady because I was too busy laughing. It's incredible, and fun in its own "unpure" way, that technology has evolved to a level that a car that big and seemingly unwieldy can hustle at such a level.
