LMP cars accurate?

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Mad Runner

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when watching the 24 hours of Le Mans, i noticed that the top speed of the LMP cars, at the end of the long straights, were much lower than in GT5. The cars in real life reached approximately 320 km/h, while in GT5 if you take a 908 HDI fap or the R10 TDI they can easily reach 350-370 km/h at the straights.

Another thing that is buggering me is the brake distance. The cars in real life braked at the 100 mark (the blue 100 sign at the first chicane in the Mulsanne straight) while in GT5 we have to brake very early, usually before the 200 mark to not end offroad.

Last thing is the gearing. In GT5 the highest the first gear can go is usually 100 km/h or under, even after tampering with the transmission, it cant go beyond that. Looking at onboard telemetry of real LMP and various race cars, i saw that the first gear was set much higher. Usually the first gear change occured in 130- 150 km/h speed.

So my question is, does GT5 have the best or most accurate physics of LMP, Group C and other race cars?
 
Mad Runner
when watching the 24 hours of Le Mans, i noticed that the top speed of the LMP cars, at the end of the long straights, were much lower than in GT5. The cars in real life reached approximately 320 km/h, while in GT5 if you take a 908 HDI fap or the R10 TDI they can easily reach 350-370 km/h at the straights.

Another thing that is buggering me is the brake distance. The cars in real life braked at the 100 mark (the blue 100 sign at the first chicane in the Mulsanne straight) while in GT5 we have to brake very early, usually before the 200 mark to not end offroad.

Last thing is the gearing. In GT5 the highest the first gear can go is usually 100 km/h or under, even after tampering with the transmission, it cant go beyond that. Looking at onboard telemetry of real LMP and various race cars, i saw that the first gear was set much higher. Usually the first gear change occured in 130- 150 km/h speed.

So my question is, does GT5 have the best or most accurate physics of LMP, Group C and other race cars?
Click to expand...

You might try running that track with a completely stock (fresh from the dealer) and see how it compares?
 
Gt5 cars are all a bit boost if you compare with reality... just think to Nascar....

It's normal to break earlier than in the real life because you go faster than in the real life... and for the 24 hours of Lemans the cars are tuned for enduro... not for a fast lap so they choose to not go so fast but got better handling ( 24 hours is long so the car have to be easy to drive), save fuel, save tire, etc...

GT5 is a simulator... but still a lot of work to do to be close to the reality... just think about Nascar tire wear loll 12 laps at Motegi... i guess in real life they could do 60 laps before change the tires..

The best thing they should do is not allow any upgrades on the cars... run street car with only sport hard, ban race tire on ''normal everyday cars''... but too many people will complains... as most people think there is not enough upgrade options.. but upgrade cars make them unrealistic.
 
1. Almost all the LMPs in the game have way too much power. The 908 also has a totally unrealistic power band. Anyone who knows a thing or two about engines will tell you there is no way a 6 litre V12 diesel could produce that much power at such high revs. The real car would shift up between 5000 and 5500 rpm. After that the power curve would plummet.

2. All cars with fully customizable gearboxes have the same generic gear setups.
The only difference between different cars is the number of gears and the ratios. The gaps are always the same.
You should be able to make the gears more realistically stacked with some tuning.

3. My theory on brakes are as follow:
No cars in GT5 have actual brakes.
They all have identical retardation devices. The only big difference from car to car in regards to braking distance is the amount of grip available from the tyres and the amount downforce.

I did a test with 3 vastly different cars, Lotus 111R, Aston Martin DB9, and the Dodge challenger R/T '70.
All cars were completely standard except for the Challenger (sport hard tyres, and gears to reach 200 kph).
I did several braking tests from 200 kph with the three cars and they all were within 5 meters every time. :crazy:
 
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Vegard
1. Almost all the LMPs in the game have way too much power. The 908 also has a totally unrealistic power band. Anyone who knows a thing or two about engines will tell you there is no way a 6 litre V12 diesel could produce that much power at such high revs. The real car would shift up between 5000 and 5500 rpm. After that the power curve would plummet.
Click to expand...
inb4 someone claims "PD just took qualifying tunes" to defend them all again.
 
Although the physics in GT5 are off from a perfect match, this is only partly a physics problem. It's also a modeling problem.

The LMP cars were given projected unrestricted horsepower numbers. They also all have more or less the same downforce (in strange imaginary units) which would indicate that PD guessed or estimated the average downforce for these cars and applied them to all the LMPs. The same thing has probably happened for a few parameters we can't see in the game.

Physics wise, the aerodynamics model is poor and drag from downforce producing devices is extremely weak. Tires are generic and don't represent LMP tires, and the brake modeling is strange as it allows crazy biases without issue.

If you want a more accurate model of these cars, you'll probably have to look elsewhere. They can still be fun in GT though.
 
Exorcet
Although the physics in GT5 are off from a perfect match, this is only partly a physics problem. It's also a modeling problem.

The LMP cars were given projected unrestricted horsepower numbers. They also all have more or less the same downforce (in strange imaginary units) which would indicate that PD guessed or estimated the average downforce for these cars and applied them to all the LMPs. The same thing has probably happened for a few parameters we can't see in the game.

Physics wise, the aerodynamics model is poor and drag from downforce producing devices is extremely weak. Tires are generic and don't represent LMP tires, and the brake modeling is strange as it allows crazy biases without issue.

If you want a more accurate model of these cars, you'll probably have to look elsewhere. They can still be fun in GT though.
Click to expand...


i agree with mostly all of this... the aerodynamics kaz said himself though is very hard to model.. and that even f1 simulators use models to model their models and so on.

but also... im pretty sure some of the tunes when u buy the car are not the same as the real life tune. (obv ) such as the c9 sauber... i dought it drives that terrible in life... so it has to have a different tune in life... + the companies like Peugeot aren't just gonna give Kaz the tune to their lmp cars to put into gt5.

That being said... the reason they could be hitting different speeds and gear ratio's ect... is b.c there tuned so differently in life than they are in gt5

Vegard
I did a test with 3 vastly different cars, Lotus 111R, Aston Martin DB9, and the Dodge challenger R/T. All cars were completely standard except for the Challenger (gears to reach 200 kph)
I did several braking tests from 200 kph with the three cars and they all were within 5 meters every time. :crazy:
Click to expand...

try more different cars... i dont know much about these cars b.c im not a fan of any of them but they could all use carbon breaks ect... plus say the aston and dodge have better carbon and lotus has worse steel breaks... but the heavier weight from carbon break cars compaired to light steel break could even it out...

try comparing these 3 cars and then post again.. im sure they would be more different..

Fully Tuned Ford Gt40 ( can get up to 250 ) so should give u fun at breaking
YellowHat Super GT Supra (amazing breaks imo) evens things up
Formula Gran Turismo ( its a F1.. nuff said) There ya go

Run all those cars and break and idk like 150... and 200. Then tell me all there breaks are the same. Could be suprised.

if all breaks are same then i suppose there all break in the same spot.. but i dont see that happening.. b.c i can break later in some of these cars then the others while still going way faster... so id say pretty hard to be same breaks

such as this:
(not exactt breaking just example)
-formula at like 200 breaks in 50 ft
-YellowHat at 150 breaks in 60 ft

ive had situations act like this a lot... so no way breaks can be same if the f1 is breaking better than supra. ( not exact cars compared or speeds or stopping distance.. all is just example )
 
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DSUjoeDirte9
try more different cars... i dont know much about these cars b.c im not a fan of any of them but they could all use carbon breaks ect... plus say the aston and dodge have better carbon and lotus has worse steel breaks... but the heavier weight from carbon break cars compaired to light steel break could even it out...

try comparing these 3 cars and then post again.. im sure they would be more different..

Fully Tuned Ford Gt40 ( can get up to 250 ) so should give u fun at breaking
YellowHat Super GT Supra (amazing breaks imo) evens things up
Formula Gran Turismo ( its a F1.. nuff said) There ya go
Click to expand...

Firstly, I was using the 1970 Dodge Challenger.
I chose these three cars specifically for their different real life braking performance and for the big difference in weight.

Secondly, the three cars you mention all have downforce.
This is a major factor in regards to braking distance, especially from 200 kph.
 
Vegard
Firstly, I was using the 1970 Dodge Challenger.
I chose these three cars specifically for their different real life braking performance and for the big difference in weight.

Secondly, the three cars you mention all have downforce.
This is a major factor in regards to braking distance, especially from 200 kph.
Click to expand...

ah very true. i didnt even think about the downforce problem. hmm idk in that case i guess u could try these 3 much differently cars.

Ford Gt40 fully tuned (250 mph... no downforce downforce mods)
Lamborghini Gallardo (idk how fast but could be interesting)
Ferrari F40 tuned a bit (the breaks on this car arnt the best if i remember)

No downforce on these 3 and i think they would have pretty different values..

Although i almost do expect similar breaking habbits. Worth a try... do to not being race cars id say try 150-200 if u can reach that in a f40 or gallardo

also im curious to test this > what if you tuned the weight and hp with no aerodynamics on these cars to the same amount, and then breaked.. so that weight/bhp wouldnt be a problem it would be solely the breaks
 
Try an NSX Type-R 02 against M3 CSL, LFA, V12 Vantage, GTR, F458/430. You will find the Type-R will out break all of them by a large margin.
 
Reynard 002
Acura ARX-01
Acura ARX-02
Alba AR2
Aston Martin AMR-One
AutoExe LMP99
Epsilon EE1
Harrier LR9C
Oreca 01
Oreca 03
Oscar KK-LM
Pheonix
Spice AK93
Tiga GT286 Spyder
Zytek 04S
Zytek 06S
Zytek Z11SN
WR LMP
WR LMP93
WR LMP94
WR LMP2008
Tiga DBIV
Pegasus WSC
Pegasus NPTI
Picchio MB1
Picchio SR2
 
DuckOnTheLoose
Reynard 002
Acura ARX-01
Acura ARX-02
Alba AR2
Aston Martin AMR-One
AutoExe LMP99
Epsilon EE1
Harrier LR9C
Oreca 01
Oreca 03
Oscar KK-LM
Pheonix
Spice AK93
Tiga GT286 Spyder
Zytek 04S
Zytek 06S
Zytek Z11SN
WR LMP
WR LMP93
WR LMP94
WR LMP2008
Tiga DBIV
Pegasus WSC
Pegasus NPTI
Picchio MB1
Picchio SR2
Click to expand...

Yes...?
 

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