looking to buy a car

[kensei]

I grew up not caring about cars. A car was to get from point A to B and nothing more. About 6 or so years ago I got very in to autoracing, then about 3 I bought a PS2 and GT3. Thus my knowledge of racing, various race drive techniques and tuning ideas grew quite a bit. The more I read and learned about autoracing then GT3 the more I began to get the desire to take that knowledge out of the video game and racing appreciation to the real world and improve my real world driving skills and even look into track days etc.

So I am looking at buying a new car, one that I can learn to drive better in, use for daily transportation and maybe even bring it to track days AND (this is the clincher) learn to drive stick on. I have only ever driven auto trans cars before (well other than a cranky Citreon one summer in norway). I can drive a tractor though (hahaha, long story) but never have driven a stick car really.

I currently drive a 1996 Dodge Neon (base model) with over 200k miles on it (like I said cars were always to get to point A to B for me, but I love this car it has served me well).

This car will be a daily driver for around town and road trips. Needs to handle well in the snow too as I am a skier and spend alot of time in the mtns). In racing and in Gran Turismo I am a avid porsche/RUF and VW fan. I'm not really a japanese car fan (though I love Subarus) but wouldn't rule them out. Most importantly I will NOT buy an American car again...

In an ideal world I'd jump into a base model 05 Porsche 911, but don't have the money for that. I also LOVE the boxster but living in the northeast I don't really want an open top car as my primary car.

So.....I have given myself a budget of $30,000 US and would prefer a new car but would be opened to a pre-owned car if it was the right fit for me.

My short list of cars I have been looking at (In no real order) is;

- VW Turbo Bettle (I love this car, always have)
- VW GTI
- BMW 325i (or xi which I prefer for the AWD but is over my budget - I've never been a BMW fan and only recently have warmed up to them)
- Mini S (this is the one car that has been recommended to my by friends who are real world car nuts/track guys....though it seems too small for daily use and the idea of a FF track car isn't that appealing)
- Subaru WRX (not the STI)
- Audi A4 (probably a last years model pre-owned one, though I drive an A4 recently and wasn't as impressed with it as I wanted to be)

I've also learned to drive in the snow in a V8 FR american car (oh the fun!) and have since then owned/driven only FF cars for the past 13 years. Now the idea of an FF car on the track doesn't sound that great but I like the idea of FF for daily driving and in snow. FR sounds great for the track but not in snow so AWD/4WD seems like the best option, no?

So I ask you all....any other cars I should look at? ANything else I should consider?

ANy tips for learning to drive stick (if only it was as easy to learn as with a DS 2 of Logitech wheel...hahaha).

 

[ShobThaBob]

G35. Much more power than the bimmer, and you can get it with AWD within your budget .

 

[kensei]

G35. Much more power than the bimmer, and you can get it with AWD within your budget .

Infiniti right? Which is Nissan's American make? Any specific model? Coupe Sedan? All I can find are 30k+ ones (on infiniti.com) without AWD.

Good looking car though, the coupe at least.

 

[Duke]

I currently drive a 1996 Dodge Neon (base model) with over 200k miles on it (like I said cars were always to get to point A to B for me, but I love this car it has served me well).

[snip]

Most importantly I will NOT buy an American car again...

I have to ask... WHY NOT?! You currently own an American car that you love and that has served you well for almost a quarter of a million miles. Don't tell me that you're giving in to peer pressure now. Anyone who says they will never buy a car of a given nationality - any nationality - is limiting themselves pointlessly, through ignorance and prejudice.

 

[kensei]

Well...I shouldn't be so harsh on the American car issue.

Honestly I'd buy another Neon (though I sorta want something different after spending close to 9 years with my current neon).

My dad was a Chrysler man, he always had Chryslers, so when I bought my first car after college in 96 I bought a neon (being the only car I liked at the time). So I would buy a Chrysler. None of them move me though, beyond the Neon.

Ford, never. Not only do they not make anything I even like I just couldn't support Ford anymore after what they have done in F1 and WRC. I can vote my objection to their policies by never buying a Ford product.

GM. I have stronger feels of anti-GM'ness (due to having them as a client for a few years years ago and being screwed out of alot of money). But beyond that all the GM cars I have seen recently are just plain cheesy.

 

[1X83Z]

G35. Much more power than the bimmer, and you can get it with AWD within your budget

It's a good idea, but the G35x (the all-wheel drive model) is available only with the automatic transmission.

My recommendations:

- Acura TSX: great standard features (front side airbags, curtain side airbags, dual-zone automatic climate control, steering wheel with audio controls, heated leather, power driver seat with memory, power sunroof, in-dash 6-disc CD changer, 17" alloys), great handling, good price. A little low on power. $26500.

- Chrysler GT Cruiser: it's a PT Cruiser with a 220-horsepower 2.4-liter turbocharged four-cylinder, capable of 0-60 in about 6.8 seconds with its standard 5-speed manual transmission. Decent standard spec and lots of interior room at a great price. $27600

- Honda Accord V6 coupe: my top choice. It's an Accord that kicks ass. Standard 240-horsepower 3-liter V6, optional 6-speed manual transmission. Dual power seats, dual-zone automatic climate control, curtain side airbags, heated leather, satellite radio, in-dash 6-disc CD changer, 17" alloys, steering wheel audio controls. $26500.

- Infiniti G35: It's a great car, but you'll have to buy used. Rear-wheel drive, 6-speed manual, 260 horsepower (280 in the coupe), heated leather, power seats, Xenon headlights, in-dash 6-disc CD changer, front side and side curtain airbags. MSRP new is about $30000, a 2003 model might run you $26000.

- Mazda RX-8 6-speed: It's a lot more practical than it looks. 0-60 in about 6.3 seconds thanks to a 238-horsepower 1.3-liter Rotary engine. Low standard spec, but that goes with a low price; options are available through three distinct packages each adding more than the previous one. Base goes for $26700, Sport goes for $27800 with traction control and Xenon headlights, Touring for a little over $30000 with a power sunroof.

- Mini Cooper S: Drive it before you discount it. Starting price of $20000 means you could add every option (automatic climate control, steering wheel audio controls, power sunroof, Xenon headlights, 17" wheels, fog lights, heated seats, navigation system, leather) and still end up under budget. 0-60 in 7.6 and it handles better than a Miata.

- Nissan Altima 3.5SE: 250-horsepower 3.5-liter V6, standard 5-speed manual, $23100. Standard spec is weak, but most are equipped with the Sport Plus package, which makes standard a power sunroof, in-dash 6-disc CD changer, and Xenon headlights. $25700 including Sport Plus package, $26100 including Leather package, which adds to the SE heated leather, automatic climate control, and in-dash 6-disc CD changer, and a power sunroof.

- Subaru Impreza WRX: $26300 including the Premium Package of a power sunroof and heated seats; starts at $24800. 227-horsepower 2-liter turbocharged boxer four, standard front side airbags and 6-disc CD changer, 0-60 in 6.4. Really, it's a kick-ass car, but there aren't enough options so you'd have to do without leather.

- Subaru Legacy GT: if you can handle the crappy fuel economy. Great standard spec (in-dash 6-disc CD changer, heated seats, dual-zone automatic climate control, 17" alloys, keyless entry) and a kick-ass 250-horsepower turbocharged 2.5-liter boxer four that propels it to sixty in 6.4 seconds. $26000 with a 5-speed manual.

- Volkswagen Jetta GLI VR6: As ever, Volkswagen clings to the manual transmission. GLI is an unbelievable car: everything's standard and you can afford everything that's not. Handling is spectacular with the GLI's 17" wheels and sport suspension, and the standard engine is a 200-horsepower 2.8-liter V6, capable of sixty in 6.7 seconds. Just $23200 with a 6-speed manual, the only available transmission.

- Volvo S40 T5: my second choice. It's a great car; 218-horsepower 2.5-liter straight five; it does 0-60 in 6.8 seconds. Standard spec is sparse, but options are relatively cheap, and handling is great with the cheap Sport package. Just $26100, $29000 with the Sport and Premium packages, which involve a power sunroof, leather upholstery, driver seat memory, sport suspension, and 17" alloys.

 

[Gil]

Well...I shouldn't be so harsh on the American car issue.

Honestly I'd buy another Neon (though I sorta want something different after spending close to 9 years with my current neon).

My dad was a Chrysler man, he always had Chryslers, so when I bought my first car after college in 96 I bought a neon (being the only car I liked at the time). So I would buy a Chrysler. None of them move me though, beyond the Neon.

Ford, never. Not only do they not make anything I even like I just couldn't support Ford anymore after what they have done in F1 and WRC. I can vote my objection to their policies by never buying a Ford product.

GM. I have stronger feels of anti-GM'ness (due to having them as a client for a few years years ago and being screwed out of alot of money). But beyond that all the GM cars I have seen recently are just plain cheesy.

Y'all knew I'd see this and put in my two cents, huh?

I've owned a Mopar until recently (thank God my son wrecked the damn thing). I have a butt-load of money in it, but now I know that I don't have to put anything more in it. However, my old man had a K-car that he drove for many years and only had to replace the engine once. (My Caravan has had the engine rebuilt 3 times).

I agree to some degree on GM cars. Though I currently own two and they haven't been any problem. They aren't pretty, but they are quite servicable.

I currently have 3 Fords. My 13 year-old Escort is a "life-support case", I has no compression in the number 2 cylinder. It's been sitting for 3-months, and it started right up yesterday. It still needs more work (in dollars) than it is worth and it will continue to sit for the forseeable future.

My '89 Probe, while in no way pretty, is still getting the kids wherever they need to go. Honestly though, it has left me "high, dry, and far from home" on one occasion. It is the only Ford to ever do this to me, and I've been riding in or driving Fords since the '60's. I've had little things go wrong, but I've always been able to limp-home or to the mechanic.

My newest Ford doesn't count (yet). I've only had it about a month. But it is a low-mileage '96 Ranger, and I anticipate that it isn't likely to give me any major problems for years to come.

While I was growing up, we had more Fords than I can count. I remember distictly at least 8. All of them were the epitome of reliable. Again, I must admit that they weren't the prettiest cars. Though the '62 T-bird and the '66 Mustang were far from ugly. And I was kind of fond of my mom's '64 Falcon Sprint with the 260 cid V-8.

Overall, I agree with Duke. If you rule out or limit yourself to cars that are of ceertain ethnic origin, you could be missing out on some very nice cars.

Also, a lot of the cars you like, Like the VW's are built by Americans in factories in the U. S. of A. So the lines are a bit blurred to some degree as to origin.
Keep that in mind.

*edit*
As for M5's recomedation of the Mini, I concur, except for the 17" wheels. All the testers have said the car equipped with the 15" wheels is quicker due to the lighter rotational weight of the wheels.
The 17's are better looking, but they slow the car down a fair bit.

 

[kensei]

M5Power - Thanks for that very detailed response. You pointed out some models I had never even considered. I'll definately take a look.

The Mini S is the one I am leaning too. It has everything I could want, I like the looks (the wife approves as well), I've read many articles about how well it drives, etc etc. I have also been told (by a mini owner) the transmission sucks and shifting is vague (not that I know enough to know anyway)....those are the only negatives I have read about it (other than cosmetic issues). On a personal side it just seems too small for lots of highway driving (given all the school bus sized SUVs) and I am still unsure how it would handle in the snow (though I am sure it is fun as hell to drive in the snow, just not practical).

Any opinions on the VW GTI? I've read lots of bad press about it's build quality and reliability in the US, but have also read it is getting better...and I do love VWs.

GIL - I feel very strongly about NOT supporting Ford or GM in anyway with my car buying dollars. They could make the best cars in the world but I would never buy one.

My first car, bought for $420 from a local farmer when I was 17 was a baby blue Pontiac V8 FR "Sport" Wagon. The car was a piece to say the least (snow shovel for the passenger's side floor, duct tape ceiling, more rust than I could count and an odd ded chicken smell in it along with many other smells). I learned to drive in that car, mainly in the snow and it was wonderful, practical now, but wonderful. I bought that car before i had any feelings on GM but do look back on it with wonderful memories.

So Chrysler is the only "American" make I would buy, but other than the Neons, nothing moves me from their line at all. Though I have always had a special place for the Jeep Wrangler and always wanted one as a ski car....maybe buying the Mini and taking what is left over and finding a beater Wrangler for snow could be an option...hmmmm.

Thanks for all the advice though...keep it coming if anyone else has anything to offer.

 

[1X83Z]

*edit*
As for M5's recomedation of the Mini, I concur, except for the 17" wheels. All the testers have said the car equipped with the 15" wheels is quicker due to the lighter rotational weight of the wheels.
The 17's are better looking, but they slow the car down a fair bit.

It's the trade-off. S models with the standard wheels (sixteens rather than fifteens) do acclerate faster, but S models with the seventeens handle better, though they do ride rougher. Neither one is a rocketship in acceleration, but the seventeen-equipped model can easily out-handle the best. That's probably the kind of decision you can't make on paper.

The Mini S is the one I am leaning too. It has everything I could want, I like the looks (the wife approves as well), I've read many articles about how well it drives, etc etc. I have also been told (by a mini owner) the transmission sucks and shifting is vague (not that I know enough to know anyway)....those are the only negatives I have read about it (other than cosmetic issues). On a personal side it just seems too small for lots of highway driving (given all the school bus sized SUVs) and I am still unsure how it would handle in the snow (though I am sure it is fun as hell to drive in the snow, just not practical).

I don't know why they wouldn't be as adequate in the snow as other front-drive manual-transmission cars, except for the large wheels. Sport Package models get an antiskid system, headlight washers, and fog lights, and standard is traction control. It shouldn't be awful.

I've only driven one Cooper S and it was a while ago, but I would've remembered if I thought there was some transmission problem, so it must not afflict all models.

I do agree that it seems small compared to all the huge vehicles on the road. It is indeed the smallest car on sale, and it looks it too. It's missing one key safety feature in curtain airbags, which could be a concern in the event you ever want to have rear passengers. Still, with all options a Cooper S's safety feature list is impressive, with standard dual front and front side airbags, traction control, antiskid, 4-wheel antilock disc brakes, a tire-pressure monitor and daytime running lights.

Any opinions on the VW GTI? I've read lots of bad press about it's build quality and reliability in the US, but have also read it is getting better...and I do love VWs.

I like the GTI, but the Mini is the all-round better car (as was the Ford Focus SVT 3-door, which was cancelled this year). The Golf GTI VR6 (the only decent GTI) is the same car as the Jetta GLI VR6 only as a 3-door hatch, so you'd have to decide whether you prefer a sedan or a hatch. They both handle and accelerate similarly, though the Jetta's about $1100 more expensive.