Lotus 98T pain in the rainPS4

[guyr1]

This is my first moan about project cars. Whilst racing in my career, a 6 lapper at Zolder. I am in second place and closing on first. Then half way through lap 5 it starts to rain, being only 1 and a half laps from finishing, I push on. Still chasing for first I continue into lap 6. Then the rain is belting it down, and the car slides everywhere, and I finish 7th. I restart the race and this time I pit, but the AI cars continue without pitting and I finish last. Has anyone else had this issue?

 

[TJC_69]

This is my first moan about project cars. Whilst racing in my career, a 6 lapper at Zolder. I am in second place and closing on first. Then half way through lap 5 it starts to rain, being only 1 and a half laps from finishing, I push on. Still chasing for first I continue into lap 6. Then the rain is belting it down, and the car slides everywhere, and I finish 7th. I restart the race and this time I pit, but the AI cars continue without pitting and I finish last. Has anyone else had this issue?

Even though SMS told us in the latest patch that the AI have been slowed in the wet , I can confirm , many others also , that the AI still laps in the wet like Ayrton Senna in the rain soaked 1993 donington British grand prix .

Take a look in here for any issues you're having also if you want to find out any other issues .
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-cars-glitches-bugs-and-errors-thread.327082/

 

[ApexDrift123]

Or just turn rain effects off completely. Or set the weather slots to clear only .

 

[Mike_grpA]

You just need to know how to handle slicks in the wet and you'll be fine. There is no problem with AI in the wet anymore. The people still moaning about it are most likely just not good at driving in the wet. It takes time if you're not used to it.

Don't treat the tyres like other games, where you back off and take it easier when you're losing grip. The tyre simulation in Pcars is the closest to real life I've ever experienced.

When the rain starts coming down, the track surface cools very quickly. This cools the tyres. The slicks are made, like real slicks, to operate in a certain temperature range. If you take it too easy when the track is getting wet and cooling, your tyres will drop out of their operating window very quickly, which will make it near impossible to drive, as without track temp, you won't be able to get the tyres back into their window, so they won't bite into the surface.

What I do, is as soon as I see rain drops, I'll start really leaning hard on the tyres in corners. Braking late and accelerating hard, to put as much heat into the tyres as I can. This way, my tyres will take much longer to cool down, and I'll keep them in their window a lot longer. I usually don't need to pit until the same lap, or a lap later, than the AI drivers.

I'll also add that I play on 90 - 100%, so I'm not racing against easy AI.

 

[ApexDrift123]

You could come prepared and start on rain tyres ? It's what I do. I know the driver in real life isn't sykick but if you know it's coming you know you have an advantage if the AI start on hards.

 

[Mike_grpA]

That depends on race length, and when the rain arrives. A ten lap race with rain for the last three will see the rain tyres ruined before the track is wet enough to get any advantage out of them. It's crucial to learn how to get the most out of the tyres in changing conditions in this game. Practice makes perfect.

 

[guyr1]

You just need to know how to handle slicks in the wet and you'll be fine. There is no problem with AI in the wet anymore. The people still moaning about it are most likely just not good at driving in the wet. It takes time if you're not used to it.

Don't treat the tyres like other games, where you back off and take it easier when you're losing grip. The tyre simulation in Pcars is the closest to real life I've ever experienced.

When the rain starts coming down, the track surface cools very quickly. This cools the tyres. The slicks are made, like real slicks, to operate in a certain temperature range. If you take it too easy when the track is getting wet and cooling, your tyres will drop out of their operating window very quickly, which will make it near impossible to drive, as without track temp, you won't be able to get the tyres back into their window, so they won't bite into the surface.

What I do, is as soon as I see rain drops, I'll start really leaning hard on the tyres in corners. Braking late and accelerating hard, to put as much heat into the tyres as I can. This way, my tyres will take much longer to cool down, and I'll keep them in their window a lot longer. I usually don't need to pit until the same lap, or a lap later, than the AI drivers.

I'll also add that I play on 90 - 100%, so I'm not racing against easy AI.

Thank you for the advise. I would never of thought about temperature of tyre against surface temperature. Would you recommend dropping down a gear but push for temperature, or go with the normal gear for cornering and acceleration. I am driving manual gears so changing down or up is not a problem.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Thank you for the advise. I would never of thought about temperature of tyre against surface temperature. Would you recommend dropping down a gear but push for temperature, or go with the normal gear for cornering and acceleration. I am driving manual gears so changing down or up is not a problem.

I wouldn't worry about gear selection, as the ideal gear for any given corner and conditions will vary. It will also depend on car.
Read this, it'll give you an insight into just how deep the tyre simulation goes in this game. Before I read this, I was treating the game like any other racing game I've played on console. After I read this, I realised the tyres need to be treated as real tyres to get the most performance out of them.

http://www.wmdportal.com/projectnews/inside-project-cars-seta-tire-model/

Even braking harder into corners, to generate more brake temp, will increase tyre temps. The reason is they actually model radiant heat from brakes transfer into the tyres via the wheel. A couple of times I even put the brakes on lightly while still on the throttle, before braking proper for the corner. Anything and everything you can do to keep putting heat into the tyres will keep them alive while it's getting wet.

Of course there will come a point where you'll lose grip due to aqua planing, when the surface water reaches a certain point, and just before this point is the ideal point to pit for wet tyres. The AI drivers will pit before this happens. What most people experience with grip loss in changing conditions is the loss of heat though. The track is still dry enough, but it's lowering temperature causes the tyres to drop out of their operating window quickly if you don't drive hard enough. It feels odd at first, because instincts will be telling you to be careful, but being too careful won't keep your tyres warm enough to grip the surface. Braking as hard as you can without locking up, accelerating hard, even allowing a little wheel spin, and most importantly, leaning hard on the tyres in the corners. Practice makes perfect!

 

[theapex]

You just need to know how to handle slicks in the wet and you'll be fine. There is no problem with AI in the wet anymore. The people still moaning about it are most likely just not good at driving in the wet. It takes time if you're not used to it.

Don't treat the tyres like other games, where you back off and take it easier when you're losing grip. The tyre simulation in Pcars is the closest to real life I've ever experienced.

When the rain starts coming down, the track surface cools very quickly. This cools the tyres. The slicks are made, like real slicks, to operate in a certain temperature range. If you take it too easy when the track is getting wet and cooling, your tyres will drop out of their operating window very quickly, which will make it near impossible to drive, as without track temp, you won't be able to get the tyres back into their window, so they won't bite into the surface.

What I do, is as soon as I see rain drops, I'll start really leaning hard on the tyres in corners. Braking late and accelerating hard, to put as much heat into the tyres as I can. This way, my tyres will take much longer to cool down, and I'll keep them in their window a lot longer. I usually don't need to pit until the same lap, or a lap later, than the AI drivers.

I'll also add that I play on 90 - 100%, so I'm not racing against easy AI.

lol. Good one...

You were joking..right?

 

[Mike_grpA]

Are you trolling?

Do you think there's something wrong with the AI in the rain still? Or do you deny that keeping heat in the tyres is important to retaining grip in changing conditions?

 

[theapex]

Are you trolling?

Do you think there's something wrong with the AI in the rain still? Or do you deny that keeping heat in the tyres is important to retaining grip in changing conditions?

Oh the classic "you disagree, you must be a troll", what you say is absurd, in real life a wet Tyre dispels water, slicks don't, so however much heat generated (if any as no friction) won't really make much difference to the fact the click Tyre just is sitting on top of the water, its not on the tarmac at all...

I just think your totally wrong and i assumed you were saying what you did as a joke...

I think your talking about a damp track..

 

[Mike_grpA]

Oh the classic "you disagree, you must be a troll", what you say is absurd, in real life a wet Tyre dispels water, slicks don't, so however much heat generated (if any as no friction) won't really make much difference to the fact the click Tyre just is sitting on top of the water, its not on the tarmac at all...

I just think your totally wrong and i assumed you were saying what you did as a joke...

I think your talking about a damp track..

No it's the classic "you didn't even read all of what I wrote before trying to laugh off what I actually wrote, so therefore you must be trolling right?".

Read what I wrote buddy. Did I say that standing water could be avoided by keeping the tyres warm? That's what you're claiming I wrote, so re-read my posts and tell me where I wrote that.

I actually wrote specifically about track temperature due to changing conditions dropping, and the need to keep your tyres in their operating window in the face of the lowering of track temp. I specifically mentioned that the surface water would get to the point where you would no longer benefit from this as aqua planing would become possible.

Anything and everything you can do to keep putting heat into the tyres will keep them alive while it's getting wet.

Of course there will come a point where you'll lose grip due to aqua planing, when the surface water reaches a certain point, and just before this point is the ideal point to pit for wet tyres. The AI drivers will pit before this happens. What most people experience with grip loss in changing conditions is the loss of heat though. The track is still dry enough, but it's lowering temperature causes the tyres to drop out of their operating window quickly if you don't drive hard enough. It feels odd at first, because instincts will be telling you to be careful, but being too careful won't keep your tyres warm enough to grip the surface. Braking as hard as you can without locking up, accelerating hard, even allowing a little wheel spin, and most importantly, leaning hard on the tyres in the corners. Practice makes perfect!

Next time perhaps read everything someone's written before making silly assumptions about what they mean.

 

[theapex]

No it's the classic "you didn't even read all of what I wrote before trying to laugh off what I actually wrote, so therefore you must be trolling right?".

Read what I wrote buddy. Did I say that standing water could be avoided by keeping the tyres warm? That's what you're claiming I wrote, so re-read my posts and tell me where I wrote that.

I actually wrote specifically about track temperature due to changing conditions dropping, and the need to keep your tyres in their operating window in the face of the lowering of track temp. I specifically mentioned that the surface water would get to the point where you would no longer benefit from this as aqua planing would become possible.




Next time perhaps read everything someone's written before making silly assumptions about what they mean.

You were wrong in your first post, the second one I didn't read... you go telling someone in real life they need to lean on the slicks to get heat into them on a wet track they would laugh at you..
Problem is if i asked you what experience you had of track driving you'd probably answer "GT5".....

 

[Mike_grpA]

You were wrong in your first post, the second one I didn't read... you go telling someone in real life they need to lean on the slicks to get heat into them on a wet track they would laugh at you..
Problem is if i asked you what experience you had of track driving you'd probably answer "GT5".....

Wow your ignorance is outstanding. How old are you?

I stated in my first post that you should try and prevent heat loss on your tyres on a track which is GETTING wet, when it has STARTED raining, i.e. No standing water, as it takes a lot of water to aquaplane. Any real racer would agree with what I wrote. When it starts raining, your tyres can quickly fall out of their operating window. So it is important to try to keep them in their window, and pit as late as you can for wets. If you come into the pits for wets as soon as the rain starts falling, your wet tyres will have been overheated running on a semi dry track until enough rain has fallen to actually leave enough standing water on the surface.

Just ask Kimi Raikkonen. He pitted too early at Silverstone for wet tyres (Inters), a number of laps after the rain had started falling, and Sebastian Vettel continued on until the track had gotten wet enough to make slicks the worse choice. Vettel had kept the heat in his tyres better than kimi, and had run for quite a while in the rain on slicks, setting better times than others on the track. He pitted at the optimum time, and leapfrogged a number of cars who hadn't made such a good strategy call. Kimi had pitted too early for inters, and by the time the track was wet enough, his tyres had been overheated, and ruined. He ended up needing another stop for fresh inters due to that mistake, while Vettel was able to go to the end on the one set.

It can make or break a race, and yes I do have experience track driving.

 

[theapex]

Wow your ignorance is outstanding. How old are you?

I stated in my first post that you should try and prevent heat loss on your tyres on a track which is GETTING wet, when it has STARTED raining, i.e. No standing water, as it takes a lot of water to aquaplane. Any real racer would agree with what I wrote. When it starts raining, your tyres can quickly fall out of their operating window. So it is important to try to keep them in their window, and pit as late as you can for wets. If you come into the pits for wets as soon as the rain starts falling, your wet tyres will have been overheated running on a semi dry track until enough rain has fallen to actually leave enough standing water on the surface.

Just ask Kimi Raikkonen. He pitted too early at Silverstone for wet tyres (Inters), a number of laps after the rain had started falling, and Sebastian Vettel continued on until the track had gotten wet enough to make slicks the worse choice. Vettel had kept the heat in his tyres better than kimi, and had run for quite a while in the rain on slicks, setting better times than others on the track. He pitted at the optimum time, and leapfrogged a number of cars who hadn't made such a good strategy call. Kimi had pitted too early for inters, and by the time the track was wet enough, his tyres had been overheated, and ruined. He ended up needing another stop for fresh inters due to that mistake, while Vettel was able to go to the end on the one set.

It can make or break a race, and yes I do have experience track driving.

Ignorance? Really? Your the one getting abusive and back tracking... you were making out your some rain god, but now say all you meant was once it starts raining how to drive the lap back into pits to change to wets....

 

[Mike_grpA]

Ignorance? Really? Your the one getting abusive and back tracking... you were making out your some rain god, but now say all you meant was once it starts raining how to drive the lap back into pits to change to wets....

Yes ignorance, and once again you ignore what I actually said, and try to make up your own version of what I said to argue with.

I didn't say how to drive back to the pits when it starts raining. Do you actually think that as soon as it starts raining, you should drive straight to the pits? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I was very clear in all of my posts what I was talking about, and no one with any racing experience or knowledge would disagree with it. I even gave you a recent example of what I'm saying working in an F1 race, to the benefit of the driver who kept his tyres warm in the rain.

I think what you don't understand, is it takes more than a few drops of rain to aquaplane. You need a significant amount of standing water for that. I'm not going to bother trying to explain myself AGAIN, as my posts were all very clear. Obviously you don't understand, and are now claiming I'm back peddling, which I'm not. Every post I've made explain the same things, and I stand by them. I explained real life techniques to try and help someone understand the difference between loss of grip due to tyres falling out of their optimum temperature range, and loss of grip due to aqua planing.

Now instead of ignoring my posts, and 'reading between the lines' to decide that I actually mean something completely different to what I've written, try to read and understand what I've written, or move on. You raised a dead thread to argue about something which nobody in their right mind would contest.

 

[guyr1]

Yes ignorance, and once again you ignore what I actually said, and try to make up your own version of what I said to argue with.

I didn't say how to drive back to the pits when it starts raining. Do you actually think that as soon as it starts raining, you should drive straight to the pits? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I was very clear in all of my posts what I was talking about, and no one with any racing experience or knowledge would disagree with it. I even gave you a recent example of what I'm saying working in an F1 race, to the benefit of the driver who kept his tyres warm in the rain.

I think what you don't understand, is it takes more than a few drops of rain to aquaplane. You need a significant amount of standing water for that. I'm not going to bother trying to explain myself AGAIN, as my posts were all very clear. Obviously you don't understand, and are now claiming I'm back peddling, which I'm not. Every post I've made explain the same things, and I stand by them. I explained real life techniques to try and help someone understand the difference between loss of grip due to tyres falling out of their optimum temperature range, and loss of grip due to aqua planing.

Now instead of ignoring my posts, and 'reading between the lines' to decide that I actually mean something completely different to what I've written, try to read and understand what I've written, or move on. You raised a dead thread to argue about something which nobody in their right mind would contest.

I asked for information and advise and you gave me it. Your information helped me, still practicing in the rain. Thank you for that and ignore the unnecessary words from someone who has got nothing else to do but resurrect a dead post.

 

[TJC_69]

I asked for information and advise and you gave me it. Your information helped me, still practicing in the rain. Thank you for that and ignore the unnecessary words from someone who has got nothing else to do but resurrect a dead post.

+1. He will be enjoying his ban it seems Mikes advice is spot on. 👍

 

[Mike_grpA]

I asked for information and advise and you gave me it. Your information helped me, still practicing in the rain. Thank you for that and ignore the unnecessary words from someone who has got nothing else to do but resurrect a dead post.

You're very welcome mate. If I can help others to get as much out of this great game as I am getting, I'll do it.

 

[Emmcee]

You just need to know how to handle slicks in the wet and you'll be fine. There is no problem with AI in the wet anymore. The people still moaning about it are most likely just not good at driving in the wet. It takes time if you're not used to it.

Don't treat the tyres like other games, where you back off and take it easier when you're losing grip. The tyre simulation in Pcars is the closest to real life I've ever experienced.

When the rain starts coming down, the track surface cools very quickly. This cools the tyres. The slicks are made, like real slicks, to operate in a certain temperature range. If you take it too easy when the track is getting wet and cooling, your tyres will drop out of their operating window very quickly, which will make it near impossible to drive, as without track temp, you won't be able to get the tyres back into their window, so they won't bite into the surface.

What I do, is as soon as I see rain drops, I'll start really leaning hard on the tyres in corners. Braking late and accelerating hard, to put as much heat into the tyres as I can. This way, my tyres will take much longer to cool down, and I'll keep them in their window a lot longer. I usually don't need to pit until the same lap, or a lap later, than the AI drivers.

I'll also add that I play on 90 - 100%, so I'm not racing against easy AI.

Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself. I think people are still not aware on just how close the tyre settings in Pcars is. These little things like just maintaining tyre temps is second nature to a race driver and they don't even have to think about how to do it. Yet people buy a hardcore racing sim expecting just that but won't use any technical knowledge to improve there gameplay. Simple things as just tyre pressures. Some people have no idea how affective this is. I think you get my point anyway.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself. I think people are still not aware on just how close the tyre settings in Pcars is. These little things like just maintaining tyre temps is second nature to a race driver and they don't even have to think about how to do it. Yet people buy a hardcore racing sim expecting just that but won't use any technical knowledge to improve there gameplay. Simple things as just tyre pressures. Some people have no idea how affective this is. I think you get my point anyway.

Yep agree. I had a Formula A race at silverstone a while ago, and it started raining half way through the race, and I managed to do another 6 laps before it was too wet for slicks, just by keeping my tyres alive. The sixth lap was a bit sketchy, as there were moments of aqua planing towards the end of the lap, and as the AI had pitted two laps earlier, I started to worry about them undercutting me. I managed to come out of the pits with my lead intact though, so it was all good, but the fact that I was able to run for 6 laps in the rain on soft slicks reinforces my point. My tyres only started turning blue half way through the sixth lap, as I was unable to keep the heat in them, because the standing water was preventing me from leaning on them by that stage.

 

[Emmcee]

Yeah it's all about when to push and for how hard, but again, this job can be made easier/harder depending on tyre pressures as well as compound and wear rate. Some circuits will also chew tyres more than others as well even though your using the same compound and using the same driving technique, won't make a difference as some circuits have a different surface than others. Also roll bars and spring rates also make a huge difference in all aspects of the cars handling. If I see that a race has medium or heavy cloud, I'll alter my roll bars,dampers and spring rates also in the likely hood of most likely getting rain.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Yeah it's a good practice to soften the set up in anticipation of rain. One of the reasons people still say the AI is too fast in the wet, despite the problem being fixed ages ago, is because they either set their car up for ultimate one lap pace, or don't bother setting it up at all, and then wonder why they struggle for pace when it's wet. It's like they expect to put wet tyres on and have the same grip they had in the dry lol.

 

[Emmcee]

Yep exactly, but I've been caught out a few times though, tweaking the car before the race, waiting for the rain and it doesn't come and you find yourself on the back foot just trying to lap as quick as AI let alone get close enough to pass. So It can bite you back but if you have enough experience with the game and basic knowledge towards car setup, it won't happen often. And that's what I can't understand with some people, driving is only half the fun, if that, finding the ultimate setup is majority of it, that's my opinion anyway. I also like how the damage has been improved on the formula a cars as well. One tap and you can do your suspension, makes you think twice before attempting a "divebomb" overtake.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Yeah they can be pretty fragile. It would be great if the AI weren't so mental lol. Really though, at most tracks you can have great races with the AI as long as you keep in the back of your mind the kind of crazy **** they attempt if you give them half a chance, but tracks like Monaco are just a disaster in FA due to the AI smashing into each other and the player constantly. They need some tweaking to get them where they need to be.

As far as set up, I'll usually use the entire practice session up finding a good set up and then trying out little things here and there to see how the car responds. Then, I'll go into quali with a fast set up to give myself the best chance of pole possible. When it comes to race time, if the sky looks ominous, I'll make sacrifices in the setup just in case of rain. More pain in the dry in exchange for less pain in the trickier wet conditions. If it looks ok I'll stick with the quali set up, or if the track is particularly abrasive, I might up the tyre pressure, soften the suspension a little, and adjust the diff, to try and reduce the wear, and allow myself some strategic leg room. I always do 100% distance (except for enduros like the 24 hour races, I ain't got time for that!), so some FA races can be as long as 70 laps, and having a consistent car which is easy on the tyres is more important than outright single lap pace.

Edit: I totally agree with you on tuning being a big part of the fun, it is for me too. In my stats, it says I've spent around a fifth of my total playtime tuning lol.

 

[JR98]

I recently did a thunderstorm race with GT3 cars in PCARS at the Nordschliefe, 1 lap, and running at 80% AI (the level I always run at) the AI was not that much faster compared to me as they were in the dry. Lost 3 or 4 places over an entire lap but 2 of those were on the final straight. I also ran the Clio race in Career that starts dry and starts to rain and despite the AI being faster than me at the end of the pit lap when the rain started I was still on similar pace to them after my pit stop. Rain AI seems ok to me.

 

[Emmcee]

It just opens a whole new element to a car. I raced go karts for years before my injury and they are a whole lot of fun, but what's the biggest adrenaline booster? Tuning your Kart yourself and it handles like a dream. The confidence booster you get is enormous, same applies in Pcars, you can tune a car into something totally different than the car you originally selected. I agree the AI is crazy, especially if you qualify mid pack, your in for a wild ride. they should also only make Drs available in designated zones, not the whole lap.

 

[Mike_grpA]

I recently did a thunderstorm race with GT3 cars in PCARS at the Nordschliefe, 1 lap, and running at 80% AI (the level I always run at) the AI was not that much faster compared to me as they were in the dry. Lost 3 or 4 places over an entire lap but 2 of those were on the final straight. I also ran the Clio race in Career that starts dry and starts to rain and despite the AI being faster than me at the end of the pit lap when the rain started I was still on similar pace to them after my pit stop. Rain AI seems ok to me.

Yeah the AI was only ever a problem in the rain before the first patch came out, as they'd be able to do dry lap times in full wet conditions on slicks, and also were very fast on wets, and their wets seemed to never wear out, even in dry conditions. SMS fixed all of that very quickly, and ever since they've been quite good to race against in changing conditions.

It just opens a whole new element to a car. I raced go karts for years before my injury and they are a whole lot of fun, but what's the biggest adrenaline booster? Tuning your Kart yourself and it handles like a dream. The confidence booster you get is enormous, same applies in Pcars, you can tune a car into something totally different than the car you originally selected. I agree the AI is crazy, especially if you qualify mid pack, your in for a wild ride. they should also only make Drs available in designated zones, not the whole lap.

I also raced karts for a couple of years when I was younger. I stopped due to my family being fairly poor, so I had to sell my kart, and never ended up getting back into it. I also used to have an E36 track car I built mostly myself (had help from friends doing some of the work).

I'd love to get into club racing just as a hobby once I've got the money to burn, but as my son is turning four at the start of next year, I'll be spending a bit on getting him into karting. I already get him steering in Pcars on my sim rig, and for a three year old he's getting quite good. Just driving at slow speeds atm, but at the rate he learns, he'll be tearing it up in no time lol.

Seriously, future world champion or what?

 

[Emmcee]

Haha good stuff, get him started early.

 

[David Bailey]

Try dropping the tyre pressure, I've found it helps with grip issues.