Lotus. Future secure?

Toronado
Yeah, Lotus is probably screwed. Announcing 6 cars, 5 of which no one cared about; the lunatic running the company saying Lotus could easily be positioned as a British Ferrari because they were always totally the same thing, really; and making it clear that no one there actually knew what they were going to do while they were developing all of these hypothetical cars no one cared about (Oops! You mean we're starting to run out of Celica engines?! Quick, shove Camry and Corolla engines in there instead!).



The second the deal with Toyota fell through they were done, because there was clearly never any money to make any of the cars beyond the Esprit when they did have engine sources. Mr. Crazy basically saying "Fine, we'll make our own engines... jerks!" didn't really add any credibility to it either.
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I agree. Lotus over extended themselves for no good reason. I understand they want to compete with Porsche and Ferrari but you can't become one of those companies over night, especially when you have very little money to begin with. They should have just stuck to what they know and slowly expanded from there. Like go from the Exige to a car above the Exige with a bigger engine, more power, etc. Something that is fast and better but is still realistic.

Instead they decide to announce a bunch of cars that no one really cares about (like you said).

Announcing six cars at once is a lot for any company.
 
TVC
They should have just stuck to what they know and slowly expanded from there. Like go from the Exige to a car above the Exige with a bigger engine, more power, etc. Something that is fast and better but is still realistic.
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^ We have the Evora for that I think.

Also, they must do a lot of advertising to advertise and promote their new car. Otherwise, people still won't really care - unless it's really, really good as reviewed by the magazines.

Perhaps they can release the brand new Esprit first and see what people think about it, the sales and all only then they proceed to the next level. I think that is still realistic.

I definitely understand the future of Dany Bahar and what he wants to see in Lotus. Coming from Ferrari, hired to become the CEO of Group Lotus, he wanted to see Lotus becoming something like Ferrari, but stuck in a situation that he really could not make his dream into a reality. Now, he almost put Group Lotus into jeopardy.
 
InvincibleM5
^ We have the Evora for that I think.

Also, they must do a lot of advertising to advertise and promote their new car. Otherwise, people still won't really care - unless it's really, really good as reviewed by the magazines.

Perhaps they can release the brand new Esprit first and see what people think about it, the sales and all only then they proceed to the next level. I think that is still realistic.

I definitely understand the future of Dany Bahar and what he wants to see in Lotus. Coming from Ferrari, hired to become the CEO of Group Lotus, he wanted to see Lotus becoming something like Ferrari, but stuck in a situation that he really could not make his dream into a reality. Now, he almost put Group Lotus into jeopardy.
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The Evora was a step in the right direction and I don't really understand why they didn't keep going with it. But what they also needed was something truly better than the Exige not something that just cost more.

I agree with what you are saying. At this point I think it comes down to if they will even be able to produce the cars.
 
TVC
But what they also needed was something truly better than the Exige not something that just cost more.
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The Evora was something better than the Exige. Technically, something better will cost more but these Lotus cars have never been cheap (at least in Malaysia).

TVC
I agree with what you are saying. At this point I think it comes down to if they will even be able to produce the cars.
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I think they can still produce cars but can they produce a new production lines? We'll see.
 
Guessing the last thing Lotus needed was a lawsuit, but they got one anyways.

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I really am losing hope of a Lotus recovery, granted the lawsuit isn't for an insane amount(still 4.6Million US) but it seems to sum up Lotus as of late, too many checks their 🤬 can't cash.
 
Justin
Guessing the last thing Lotus needed was a lawsuit, but they got one anyways.

Link

I really am losing hope of a Lotus recovery, granted the lawsuit isn't for an insane amount(still 4.6Million US) but it seems to sum up Lotus as of late, too many checks their 🤬 can't cash.
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Oh. Lotus are seriously ****ed now.
 
Perhaps I just don't pay attention enough, but what did Lotus hope to achieve by getting into IRL in the first place? F1, as much of a farce as that became, I can understand. But IRL?
 
Toronado
Perhaps I just don't pay attention enough, but what did Lotus hope to achieve by getting into IRL in the first place? F1, as much of a farce as that became, I can understand. But IRL?
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They should stop Motorsport until they get more money. And giving a football stadium chairs with lotus logos on >:-|
 
Oh, don't get me wrong. At this point they should probably cute as many motorsports ties they have as possible.



But my point was more along the lines of even if they did have the financial footing to do this stuff, what were they set to gain from having a team in a race serious that has nothing to do with them? It just seems like them burning money for the sake of it.
 
Toronado
But my point was more along the lines of even if they did have the financial footing to do this stuff, what were they set to gain from having a team in a race serious that has nothing to do with them? It just seems like them burning money for the sake of it.
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I can't think of anything more than historical links. Other than that, no good reason at all.

As for Lotus in F1, I don't know how much it's costing them, but they are at least a high-ranking team, and I expect their overheads are comparatively low there since really the team is still being run by Renault.
 
obsessive rules
An f1 car costs roughly £20million I think :-|
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Yes, but that's not automatically £20 million out of Lotus's budget. The team is still Renault - Lotus is effectively just the main sponsor. They presumably foot some money towards the team as a result, but it's not as simple as Lotus paying £20 million per car, and then race entry fees, and then backhanders to Bernie, and team trucks, and wages, and all that stuff...

F1 is expensive, but I wouldn't be surprised if developing a car like the Evora cost Lotus more than they've put into F1 so far.
 
homeforsummer
Yes, but that's not automatically £20 million out of Lotus's budget. The team is still Renault - Lotus is effectively just the main sponsor. They presumably foot some money towards the team as a result, but it's not as simple as Lotus paying £20 million per car, and then race entry fees, and then backhanders to Bernie, and team trucks, and wages, and all that stuff...

F1 is expensive, but I wouldn't be surprised if developing a car like the Evora cost Lotus more than they've put into F1 so far.
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But all the money they save from f1 could go towards saving lotus.
 
homeforsummer
Theoretically, but there's no guarantee. It's not as easy as just pulling out of F1 - taking part in any major sport is an investment.
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Agreed but the do it for marketing. Most companies manage with an ad on tv or in a magazine. It's cheaper.
 
obsessive rules
Agreed but the do it for marketing. Most companies manage with an ad on tv or in a magazine. It's cheaper.
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It is, but Lotus isn't really the sort of company that would benefit from regular marketing. By and large, Lotus drivers will be the sort of people into F1 or sports car racing (much as Danny Bahar would like to think Swizz Beatz is the typical Lotus owner).

As I said: Not as simple as you're making it seem. Yes, F1 is expensive, but it's also incredibly high profile, there's real historical precedence, and Lotus owners are likely to appreciate the involvement, even if it's risky financially.
 
I think a better solution is iStream from Gordon Murray to make a sub £10,000 city car and other money makers.
 
homeforsummer
I can't think of anything more than historical links. Other than that, no good reason at all.

As for Lotus in F1, I don't know how much it's costing them, but they are at least a high-ranking team, and I expect their overheads are comparatively low there since really the team is still being run by Renault.
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The team has nothing to do with Renault now. Its owned by Genii. The rest of the team's budget comes from Genii themselves and the rest of their sponsors.
I think out of their main sponsors, Total contributes the most especially as they have Grosjean driving now.

obsessive rules
An f1 car costs roughly £20million I think :-|
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The top F1 teams have a budget of £300 million. I'd say the Lotus team probably has £150~£200 million budget judging by the random budget estimates I have seen over the years.
I can't see how you can put a price on the car itself - the car constantly needs to be developed through the season not to mention the cost of the engines, spares, etc etc.

In any case, Lotus Cars don't own the team and don't provide anywhere near the majority of the budget - they reportedly only put in £20 million (or did, before they terminated their deal and now they only have a naming deal).

To be honest, Lotus' F1 sponsorship is actually the most sensible marketing deal they have going. Its relatively cheap (compared to what other sponsors put in) and the team they sponsor is very close to the front - so they get plenty of coverage. Not to mention their cash-in on the obvious black/gold-Senna connections, etc. Not to mention F1 is the most widely-watched motorsport so any visibility they get is already 10x better than even owning a team in any other series.

Justin
Guessing the last thing Lotus needed was a lawsuit, but they got one anyways.

Link

I really am losing hope of a Lotus recovery, granted the lawsuit isn't for an insane amount(still 4.6Million US) but it seems to sum up Lotus as of late, too many checks their 🤬 can't cash.
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Oh its way worse than that - two teams have already terminated their engine contracts with them. Lotus are a laughing stock in Indycar.
Surprise, surprise Lotus didn't spend the money developing the engines and didn't even send Dragon the money they promised!

Toronado
Perhaps I just don't pay attention enough, but what did Lotus hope to achieve by getting into IRL in the first place? F1, as much of a farce as that became, I can understand. But IRL?
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Historical connection. Literally that is all its based on.

At least thats a better reason than GP2 and GP3 sponsorship!

Personally I don't understand any of the series they sponsor except for F1 and maybe GT-level Le Mans/Sportscars. Basically it seems Mr Bahar was trying to "do a Red Bull" and plaster Lotus' name everywhere....just without the money to do so.
 
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homeforsummer
It is, but Lotus isn't really the sort of company that would benefit from regular marketing. By and large, Lotus drivers will be the sort of people into F1 or sports car racing (much as Danny Bahar would like to think Swizz Beatz is the typical Lotus owner).

As I said: Not as simple as you're making it seem. Yes, F1 is expensive, but it's also incredibly high profile, there's real historical precedence, and Lotus owners are likely to appreciate the involvement, even if it's risky financially.
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As much as Bahar publicly talks about the importance of motorsport history, he also knows that the true money is appealing to lifestyle customers. Lotus is in all sorts of print media since his arrival, in particular in glossy fashion and trend magazines. In fact, I'd rather see them steal some market share from the Boxster and someday actually fund a factory racing team at a high profile level rather than licensing out their name and calling it a day (I'm aware of their GT3/GT4 efforts, but I'd love to see a proper return to F1 or LeMans)
 
^Problem with that is you need to have the cars to sell. Bahar just broke the bank on marketing without the cars he is/was promising. Its like Lotus hired him and went "here, have all the budget, even the money we need to make the cars!" - because as far as anyone can seem to tell, those new models still don't exist and don't look like existing for a long while yet (if ever!).
 


See? This is the future of Lotus. 440bhp+ Evora GTE. :D I'd say Lotus is safe..
 
Omnis
That sounds super annoying.
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None of the Toyota-powered Lotus have been particularly pleasing, exhaust-wise. The only exception I can think of is the 2ZZ with a quiet exhaust and aftermarket supercharger. It sounds like (and looks like, I guess) an electric RC car.
 
exigeracer
None of the Toyota-powered Lotus have been particularly pleasing, exhaust-wise. The only exception I can think of is the 2ZZ with a quiet exhaust and aftermarket supercharger. It sounds like (and looks like, I guess) an electric RC car.
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I disagree:


edit: I suppose that is mostly induction growl. So your point still stands.
 

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