LSD Drift setup: wheels only (G27)

[Tvensky]

English is my 3d language!
LSD Drift setup
Can someone explain me how it works, Im trying to figure it out and I dont understand how. Trying to drive and tune but it does not help to understand.

I'm trying to learn drifts with my G27! (I can do anything with sixaxis and I can drift with G27, but nowhere near sixaxis, I want to learn better drifts & more predictable)
in GT default setup:
NISSAN FAIRLADY Z VERSION S (Z33) '07 (premium)

Initial torque - 10
acceleration sensitivity - 40
braking sensitivity - 20

Questions:
I want to understand what is the difference for each selection!?
what does it do?
How it helps me to drift?
How do I tune it?

Wikipedia:
Drive train
A proper mechanical limited slip differential (LSD) is almost considered essential for drifting. Attempting to drift with an open or viscous differential in a sustained slide generally yields relatively less impressive results. All other modifications are secondary to the LSD.[13] Two popular LSD brands amongst drifters are OS Giken & Cusco.
The most preferred form of LSD for drifting is the clutch type, in "2-way" form, for its consistent and aggressive lockup behavior under all conditions (acceleration and deceleration). Some drift cars use a spool "differential", which actually has no differential action at all - the wheels are locked to each other. Budget-minded drifters may use a welded differential, where the side gears are welded to give the same effect as a spool. This makes it easier to break rear traction because it reduces maximum traction in all situations except traveling in a straight line. Welded differentials have an inherent risk involved, due to the tremendous amounts of internal stress the welds may fail and the differential completely locks up leaving the rear wheels immobilized. Helical torque sensing types such as the Torsen or Quaife (available on cars in certain stock trims such as S15, FD3S, MX-5, JZA8x, UZZ3x) differentials are also adequate.
The clutches on drift cars tend to be very tough ceramic brass button or multiple-plate varieties, for durability, as well as to allow rapid "clutch kick" techniques to upset the balance of the car. Gearbox and engine mounts are often replaced with urethane or aluminum mounts, and dampers added to control the violent motion of the engine/gearbox under these conditions.
Gearsets may be replaced with closer ratios to keep the engine in the power band. These may be coarser dog engagement straight cut gears instead of synchronised helical gears, for durability and faster shifting at the expense of noise and refinement. Wealthier drifters may use sequential gearboxes to make gear selection easier/faster, while sequential shift lever adapters can be used to make shifts easier without increasing shift time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drifting_(motorsport)#Drive_train

Wikipedia does not explain me how to tune LSD and what changes does it makes (how it works).

I did use search!

 

[fastfox400]

Here is what I have learned.. A 5/5/5 diff acts similiar to a open diff, where as a 60/60/60 acts similiar to a completely welded diff. I personally run a me to 37/21/29 allows me to stay in throttle a little longer an maintain slightly more angle.

 

[Tvensky]

Here is what I have learned.. A 5/5/5 diff acts similiar to a open diff, where as a 60/60/60 acts similiar to a completely welded diff. I personally run a me to 37/21/29 allows me to stay in throttle a little longer an maintain slightly more angle.

Thanks alot for the quick answer mate! 👍 I will try out your setup now 👍, but I would love to know more about LSD. any Help much appreciated!

Questions:
I want to understand what is the difference for each selection!?
what does it do?
How it helps me to drift?
How do I tune it?

 

[fastfox400]

Thanks alot for the quick answer mate! 👍 I will try out your setup now 👍, but I would love to know more about LSD. any Help much appreciated!

Questions:
I want to understand what is the difference for each selection!?
what does it do?
How it helps me to drift?
How do I tune it?

Initial is basically how soon it will lock the diff under initial acceleration. The lower the number the longer the diff takes to lock up, Higher the sooner it locks.

Acceleration is when your on the throttle going thru a turn. The lower the number the more wheel spin the inside tire will have. The higher the number is the more even the wheel speed will be among the rear wheels.

Braking is how the diff reacts during braking and decelleration. The higher the number the more even the breaking will be.

Here are some different setups to give you a Idea what setting I found that work for myself.
15/30/25
20/55/60
10/60/5
17/27/14
5/60/45

Now here are some different setups.
1 way-5/60/5
2 way-5/60/60
1.25/5/60/15
1.5 way-5/60/30
1.75 way-5/60/45

For the Z33 my best over all diff is more .5/.75 way
For high speed I use 25-30/20-25/15-20
For tighter tracks and faster transitions i use 10-15/40-45/60

 

[Tvensky]

I can say my feelings about those setups!

5/5/5
car was more stable, I was able to drive more aggressive and car was very forgiving esspecially when braking, and I could step out of drifts more easy. I can say for sure drift itself was very poor, car wanted to drive fast instead of drifting.

60/60/60
car setup was for very aggressive drivers, it felt very unpredictable fast turning monster, drifts where very impressive but very hard pull out of drift. Car felt like welded together, very primitive but very easy to understand.

fastfox400 setup
37/21/29
felt in the middle drifts more stable and with good cornering capability, more easy to pull out of drift mean time easy to begin next one. nice setup, will try to improve for my style of driving it seems I need more primitive setup maybe like 40/40/40 will try it out now..

what I didnt understand why did you reduce:
acceleration sensitivity - from 40 to 21

and meanwhile set more:
braking sensitivity - from 20 to 29

what does that change?

 

[Tvensky]

Initial is basically how soon it will lock the diff under initial acceleration. The lower the number the longer the diff takes to lock up, Higher the sooner it locks.

Acceleration is when your on the throttle going thru a turn. The lower the number the more wheel spin the inside tire will have. The higher the number is the more even the wheel speed will be among the rear wheels.

Braking is how the diff reacts during braking and decelleration. The higher the number the more even the breaking will be.

👍 THANKS! you helped me a lot today!

my best regards to fastfox400!
greetings from Latvia! 👍

Anyone can feel free to post setups for steering wheels I would love to try out some of your cars with your LSD setup!

 

[fastfox400]

what I didnt understand why did you reduce:
acceleration sensitivity - from 40 to 21

and meanwhile set more:
braking sensitivity - from 20 to 29

what does that change?

Dropping the Acceleration sensitivity will allow you stay in the throttle longer during the drift. While raising the braking will keep the car more stable when braking mid drift.

 

[squirlybmx]

So I'm gonna add a question here if I may. My BMW 1series understeers as if it was a driveable moon. I was told adjusting my dif would help since my suspension setup isn't low enough to bottom out. So how would I adjust the dif to rid of understeer?

 

[Tvensky]

Dropping the Acceleration sensitivity will allow you stay in the throttle longer during the drift. While raising the braking will keep the car more stable when braking mid drift.

interesting! thanks!

how about real world setups.. ? I suppose those setups was best for GT5 drifting, but maybe some similar to real world setups would be different and fun... I have noticed that GT5 is more serious about Grip racing, and Drift is GT5 weakness.. maybe im wrong a bit...

anyways how would lets say D1 tune they're LSD..? transferred tuning for GT5!

 

[Tvensky]

So I'm gonna add a question here if I may. My BMW 1series understeers as if it was a driveable moon. I was told adjusting my dif would help since my suspension setup isn't low enough to bottom out. So how would I adjust the dif to rid of understeer?

your suspension have to be stiff so the tail dont jump around side to side. Low height, high spring rate, stronger dampers & anti-roll bars.

since Im new to LSD tuning, I cant help you on this one, maybe explanation how LSD works will help like it did for me.. (I did only tune all other bits all the time and skipped LSD)

so far 40/30/40 for me in a Z33 works just fine. but still not perfect. no understeer for me so far!

 

[fastfox400]

So I'm gonna add a question here if I may. My BMW 1series understeers as if it was a driveable moon. I was told adjusting my dif would help since my suspension setup isn't low enough to bottom out. So how would I adjust the dif to rid of understeer?

Bring the the rear spring rate down, along with running a higher intial and acceleration setting on the lsd will help with understeer. Mine doesnt understeer at all. All try having a lower rear ride height than the front will help tremendously.

 

[twitcher]

I'm still learning the ropes of LSD tuning, this thread has given me some great info. Team KYOKI has a good write-up about drift tuning, and how changing the different parameters affect drifting (add understeer, add oversteer, increase or decrease transition speed etc etc).

Here is the link:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=225678

The tuning info is near the bottom of the first post.

 

[monsterGAUZ]

5/60/60
I literally never use anything else on driftcars

 

[squirlybmx]

Bring the the rear spring rate down, along with running a higher intial and acceleration setting on the lsd will help with understeer. Mine doesnt understeer at all. All try having a lower rear ride height than the front will help tremendously.

He spring rate is 10.6 infront and 6.6 in back. The dif is at 60/60/5 right now since it understeers less than 60/60/60. The height is at -20 front and back so that may be al that's left. My camber is at 2.7 upfront and .7 in the back and toe is -.15 upfront and 0 in the back but I don't think that'd make much of a difference, right?

 

[fastfox400]

Bring the front height up. you dont want it the same as the rear.

 

[djinline]

I have DFGT and my most used LSD setup is 5/45/30. It feels good with 280-400hp cars.

 

[fastfox400]

5/45/30 is a very stable lsd setup that works great with cars even upto the 500hp lvl.

 

[xGuNzABLaZiNx]

5/60/60
I literally never use anything else on driftcars

Im almost the same, I use 5-60-32 on most cars. Only on lower HP cars do I change it, I use 60-60-32 on those.

 

[Stavingo]

Actually I rock 60/60/60 on most drift cars or I go with the default values of the mechanical differential.

 

[Tvensky]

it seems everyone has they're own setups, and I found mine with Z33 FAIRLADY

10/60/45 works, but I feel it can be better. anyways.

I still would like to know what LSD setups use real drifters, maybe someone may know how do I simulate that in GT5. Just want to make my drifting experience with wheel as real as possible.

 

[Powellx235]

I run 5/60/60 on most of my cars. I bump up the torque if the power is low.

 

[Gonales]

5/60/60
I literally never use anything else on driftcars

+1: This is most realistic. You should never use a setup that differs from this one.

it seems everyone has they're own setups, and I found mine with Z33 FAIRLADY

10/60/45 works, but I feel it can be better. anyways.

I still would like to know what LSD setups use real drifters, maybe someone may know how do I simulate that in GT5. Just want to make my drifting experience with wheel as real as possible.

TTCH once told me that nearly every drifter who had the financial possibility, and the will to make it out there would use a 2 way differential, (5 60 60). Irl, it has some major advantages that don't show ingame (because of a lack of reality in clutch usage, and mechanical erors).

 

[zedfonsie]

I can say my feelings about those setups!

5/5/5
car was more stable, I was able to drive more aggressive and car was very forgiving esspecially when braking, and I could step out of drifts more easy. I can say for sure drift itself was very poor, car wanted to drive fast instead of drifting.

60/60/60
car setup was for very aggressive drivers, it felt very unpredictable fast turning monster, drifts where very impressive but very hard pull out of drift. Car felt like welded together, very primitive but very easy to understand.

fastfox400 setup
37/21/29
felt in the middle drifts more stable and with good cornering capability, more easy to pull out of drift mean time easy to begin next one. nice setup, will try to improve for my style of driving it seems I need more primitive setup maybe like 40/40/40 will try it out now..

what I didnt understand why did you reduce:
acceleration sensitivity - from 40 to 21

and meanwhile set more:
braking sensitivity - from 20 to 29

what does that change?

So you can keep your foot on the throttle more.

I run 5/15/15 and my foot is welded down in my 350z

 

[MSTER232]

I use a DFGT (close enough), and for my LSD setups I use 60/60/30 to start off, then I tune the LSD to my liking from there.

 

[Powellx235]

So you can keep your foot on the throttle more.

I run 5/15/15 and my foot is welded down in my 350z

Yeah, no wonder Your car is slow as hell!

 

[BkS]

T'is a funny subject this... I'm a DFGT drifter and I almost all of the time run 10/60/20. My foot is always cemented to the peddle hence why it broke a couple of weeks ago.. (too much of a man foot I think XD)

Some of my cars differ like my two Z4's which run 10/40/20 and 10/35/10.

My 1 series doesn't even have a LSD. It's got enough torque to keep itself sideways in 3rd gear for however long I need it too, which is always a bonus.

 

[jay s13]

in real life i use 100/100/100 lol welded diff, i just use 60 in all in game

 

[GTP_Kazama]

Welded diff = 5/60/60, Open diff = 5/5/5. As explained earlier the initial torque setting(the first setting) is used to determine how much throttle is needed to lock the differential. Example of this is: if i was to put the initial at 5, the side gears(ones delivering the power) will be locked to spin together 100% of the time. If I used an Initial Torque setting of 60, the diff will do what is called 'Free-wheeling' where one driven wheel will spin at a totally different speed to the other, this usually being the outside wheel spinning more thus creating more oversteer or what is known as tracking to be easier.(being smooth and without traction issues.

This is not what you want, a drifter knows that his driven wheels should spin at very similar if not identical speeds(locked differential) for smoother, easier initiation and also transition. On the other hand, having a fully locked differential is great for the basics of drifting which is why plenty of budget drifters opt to weld, creating the 5/60/60 feeling. Though this is widely used by 'budget drifters' and is highly recommended if you cannot afford a proper setup, It will only last as long as the welds can hold, which isn't very long usually. Most professional drifters will use a 2-way setup which is more like the setup I try to use which is more like 10/60/60. Unfortunately the settings in GT5 go from 5 to 60 which makes judging the percentage of lock much more difficult but most real drifters prefer some play before diff-lock even if it is only slight. This creates pretty much a locked differential but once mastered makes for more corner entry speeds, and more adjustments when you can perfect the throttle control.

As I mentioned above though, the 5-60 adjustment makes percentages a bit different and as such 10/60/60 may be too much for some, not enough for others. So I tend to play around between 5-15max initial torque.

That being said, no-one can tell you how you will like it, as shown by many other peoples' settings, the variation is big, but using low accel and decel(anything under 45ish accel and 30 decel) will lead you to free-wheel more which may feel easier to drift and seem better but if you go and watch your replay, you'll notice pretty quickly, the infamous one wheel tyre fryer mark left usually by your outer driven wheel because it is trying to spin faster to correct the drift you've put the car into. Not a pretty sight to a true drifter.

When I was learning on my G27 I started with 5/60/60 just to get the feeling of what the car should feel like mid-drift and before the big physics patch I experimented with lower decel (from 45 to 60) to get more lift-off oversteer which is: when you back off the throttle the differential will open somewhat to allow more turn in with out stopping your drift. But since the patch I find that with most of the notorious GT-snap gone, a more aggresively locked differential can be used with less effort required to control entry and exiting of corners.

 

[jay s13]

Welded diff = 5/60/60, Open diff = 5/5/5. As explained earlier the initial torque setting(the first setting) is used to determine how much throttle is needed to lock the differential.

wow are you sure about that? i always assumed that the first setting should be maxed lol, because judging by the tyre wear indicator im spinning both instantly, guess i'll test it out now

might explain why i always felt drifting in gt5 was wierd haha. also fyi my welded diff has lasted 9 months and is still strong(broken 3 axles though lol)

 

[Powellx235]

Welded diff = 5/60/60, Open diff = 5/5/5. As explained earlier the initial torque setting(the first setting) is used to determine how much throttle is needed to lock the differential. Example of this is: if i was to put the initial at 5, the side gears(ones delivering the power) will be locked to spin together 100% of the time. If I used an Initial Torque setting of 60, the diff will do what is called 'Free-wheeling' where one driven wheel will spin at a totally different speed to the other, this usually being the outside wheel spinning more thus creating more oversteer or what is known as tracking to be easier.(being smooth and without traction issues.

This is not what you want, a drifter knows that his driven wheels should spin at very similar if not identical speeds(locked differential) for smoother, easier initiation and also transition. On the other hand, having a fully locked differential is great for the basics of drifting which is why plenty of budget drifters opt to weld, creating the 5/60/60 feeling. Though this is widely used by 'budget drifters' and is highly recommended if you cannot afford a proper setup, It will only last as long as the welds can hold, which isn't very long usually. Most professional drifters will use a 2-way setup which is more like the setup I try to use which is more like 10/60/60. Unfortunately the settings in GT5 go from 5 to 60 which makes judging the percentage of lock much more difficult but most real drifters prefer some play before diff-lock even if it is only slight. This creates pretty much a locked differential but once mastered makes for more corner entry speeds, and more adjustments when you can perfect the throttle control.

As I mentioned above though, the 5-60 adjustment makes percentages a bit different and as such 10/60/60 may be too much for some, not enough for others. So I tend to play around between 5-15max initial torque.

That being said, no-one can tell you how you will like it, as shown by many other peoples' settings, the variation is big, but using low accel and decel(anything under 45ish accel and 30 decel) will lead you to free-wheel more which may feel easier to drift and seem better but if you go and watch your replay, you'll notice pretty quickly, the infamous one wheel tyre fryer mark left usually by your outer driven wheel because it is trying to spin faster to correct the drift you've put the car into. Not a pretty sight to a true drifter.

When I was learning on my G27 I started with 5/60/60 just to get the feeling of what the car should feel like mid-drift and before the big physics patch I experimented with lower decel (from 45 to 60) to get more lift-off oversteer which is: when you back off the throttle the differential will open somewhat to allow more turn in with out stopping your drift. But since the patch I find that with most of the notorious GT-snap gone, a more aggresively locked differential can be used with less effort required to control entry and exiting of corners.

Your wrong. 5/60/60 is a 2-way, 60/60/60 is replicating a welded diff.