M5 VS Viper

[karolusa]

Last night i was racing with my brother ,he was driving Dodge VIPER GTSR Concept and me M5 ,but I was very suprised that M5 won with viper! he was going 280Km/h and me about 310Km/h

 

[samj_13]

That's interesting. Which track did you race on? Test Course? The M5 does have quite a good top speed, but I haven't driven the Viper Concept.

 

[KiwiBoy]

The M5 has better aerodynamics then the Dodge, and also the 7-speed SMG transmission is tuned well to fully use the power from the 500hp V10.

 

[samj_13]

The M5 has better aerodynamics then the Dodge, and also the 7-speed SMG transmission is tuned well to fully use the power from the 500hp V10.

I thought the M5 had a V8 for some reason. Oh well. Means its got even better weight transfer than I thought

 

[Rogue Ssv]

The M5 does have a V8.
Wait... you mean the new one? The newer, uglier one has a V10

 

[KiwiBoy]

The M5 does have a V8.
Wait... you mean the new one? The newer, uglier one has a V10

Yay, someone that actually likes the old M5. But the new M5 is better IMO

 

[samj_13]

Yay, someone that actually likes the old M5. But the new M5 is better IMO

I agree.

In GT5, you know they will have the ultra-slick M6.

 

[OZZYGT]

^^^^ Ohh yeah!!!, by all means, I just love that sexy look of the new M5 and M6 from the headlights to the back, anyway, I always thought the Viper had a better top speed than the M5. To me, the M5 was more like a cornering car, due to its wide range in the transmition (7-speed). that's curious!



Ciao....

 

[crazy]

The M5 does have a V8.
Wait... you mean the new one? The newer, uglier one has a V10

I like how the old one looks, but IMO the new M5 is one of the only new BMWs that doesn't look like designs picked out of a Kia trashcan *cough* 3 series *cough*

 

[KiwiBoy]

^^^^ Ohh yeah!!!, by all means, I just love that sexy look of the new M5 and M6 from the headlights to the back, anyway, I always thought the Viper had a better top speed than the M5. To me, the M5 was more like a cornering car, due to its wide range in the transmition (7-speed). that's curious!



Ciao....

I dont think that the transmission helps with cornering expect that with its wide range of gear ratios to choose from, you can find a gear that is suitable for any types of corners. Some cars have bad gear ratios that when you are cornering, the second gear is redlining and the third gear causes the revs to drop way out of the powerband. So you cant find a good gear ratio. I think best is when you are cornering, the engine speed is around the middle of the powerband, so when you exit the turn, you will be albe to start accelerating.

 

[ImprezaAddict]

This is sort of off-yopic, dont you think?
Anyways...The M5 has more torque (I think) than the Viper, and more horses (I think) than the Viper. And probably, if you were with a tuned M5 and Viper, tuned to speed, the M5 would fry the poor Viper.

 

[KiwiBoy]

This is sort of off-yopic, dont you think?
Anyways...The M5 has more torque (I think) than the Viper, and more horses (I think) than the Viper. And probably, if you were with a tuned M5 and Viper, tuned to speed, the M5 would fry the poor Viper.

The Dodge Viper has a 8.3 litre engine and can produce 525 lb-ft of torque and the M5 "only" has a 5.0 litre engine that produces 384 lb-ft of torque. In conclusion, bigger engines produe more torque, no matter how you tune it, so that is why Vtec has high horsepower but torque is low. ie.S2000: 240hp and 161 lb-ft of torque.

 

[ImprezaAddict]

The Dodge Viper has a 8.3 litre engine and can produce 525 lb-ft of torque and the M5 "only" has a 5.0 litre engine that produces 384 lb-ft of torque. In conclusion, bigger engines produe more torque, no matter how you tune it, so that is why Vtec has high horsepower but torque is low. ie.S2000: 240hp and 161 lb-ft of torque.

Ok, its just that I wasnt sure. Anyways what does everybody elese think?

 

[amp88]

I'd expect the Viper to have a higher top speed than the M5 when standard, but I haven't tested them, so that's just opinion.

The Dodge Viper has a 8.3 litre engine and can produce 525 lb-ft of torque and the M5 "only" has a 5.0 litre engine that produces 384 lb-ft of torque. In conclusion, bigger engines produe more torque, no matter how you tune it, so that is why Vtec has high horsepower but torque is low. ie.S2000: 240hp and 161 lb-ft of torque.

Whilst that's generally true, there are many exceptions. When forced induction (i.e. turbochargers and superchargers) come into the equation things change a lot. For example, the E46 M3 has a 3.2 litre engine and produces a maximum of 262 ft lbs torque, whereas the Impreza WRX STi has a smaller, 2 litre engine and produces a maximum of 300ft lbs of torque.

There are other exceptions even when comparing like to like (i.e. turbocharged car to turbocharged car or naturally aspirated car to naturally aspirated car). For example, the new Viper has an 8.3 litre engine but produces less torque than the Pagani Zonda C12 S, which has a 7.3 litre engine.

 

[GT4_Rule]

Isn't the Viper more to the "fast in straight line but horrible in corners"?

 

[chinny]

The stroke of an engine also plays a part in detirmining the torque. Longer stroke engines make more torque than over bored ones, given the same or similar capacity and aspiration of course. Things like compression also come into play, which is a big part of why diesel fueled engines make so much torque yet dont have huge horsepowers as well.
In regards to the M5 vs Viper I would say that unless you were on the test course the M5's superior chassis dynamics and suspension tune would give you much better mid-corner speed than the Viper which although it is hugely powerful suffers from the fact that American manufacturers dont quite understand the concept of corners.

 

[GT4_Rule]

How does diesel create that much of torque? Always wondered.

Sorry to take it OT.

 

[Leonidae]

First of all, the reason why M5 is faster than Viper in straights is, that M5's torque curve is way high on the rev range, where the revs are while pursuing top speed. Viper has all the grunt low down. they're two different animals. besides, Vipers block is pretty heavy when compared to M5's engine.. but still, i'd take Viper over M5, because Viper's diff won't go kaboom after slightly quicker takeoff from lights.

just my 0.02 cents

 

[the Interceptor]

How does diesel create that much of torque? Always wondered.

Diesels don't have more tourque than a turboed petrol engine of the same size. They can't rev as high though due to the time the Diesel needs to ignite itself, so their hp figures don't go as high.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[Jay]

How does diesel create that much of torque? Always wondered.

Sorry to take it OT.

Diesel fuel is denser (more energy) and burns for a longer period down the power stroke, the fuel is injected roughly 10 degrees BTDC (diesels are direct injection so fuel delivery is independant of the valves) and able to inject well into the power stroke.

Diesels don't have more tourque than a turboed petrol engine of the same size.

Comparing a Forced induction Petrol to a N/A Deisel is a bit unfair.

 

[the Interceptor]

Comparing a Forced induction Petrol to a N/A Deisel is a bit unfair.

Of course, I was talking about turbodiesels.

 

[Jay]

Well a turbo deisel of 3.0L vs a turbo petrol of 3.0L at say 2000rpm (for both) the deisel still should be developing more torque than the petrol.

 

[the Interceptor]

Well a turbo deisel of 3.0L vs a turbo petrol of 3.0L at say 2000rpm (for both) the deisel still should be developing more torque than the petrol.

Agreed, given a (quite low) rev number, the Diesel wins.

 

[amp88]

Volkswagen Golf Hatchback 2.0 GT TDI (236lb ft) vs Ford Focus RS (228 lb ft)

Both 2 litre turbos, VW a diesel, Focus a petrol. VW packs more torque.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Plus Diesels are better on fuel, so thats a big pluss for today's gas prices. Even if Diesel is a tad dearer.

 

[karolusa]

well I was racing on many tracks , like Test Course.... and realy the viper was first in first 5 second than BMW was "leader" all the way to the end.

 

[Wolfe]

well I was racing on many tracks , like Test Course.... and realy the viper was first in first 5 second than BMW was "leader" all the way to the end.

The reasons why the M5 won on the test course are because, as others have already said here, the M5 has better aerodynamics, an engine that produces most of its power at high RPMs, and a 7-speed transmission that is only geared a little bit beyond the car's drag-limited top speed.

The reason why the M5 won at any other course is most likely because you're a better driver than your brother. The fact that the M5 is an amazingly competent handler for its size, weight and vehicle-type helped, but the bottom line is that you were a faster driver.

 

[karolusa]

thanks! LOL I think I'am "good" driver in GT

 

[niky]

Actually, in the hands of an average driver, the M5 will usually post the quicker time because it's keener to turn-in. Get used to the Viper, adjust to the higher amount of understeer, and learn to drive it smoothly, and it'll hand the M5 its ass on a silver platter. It's lower and has much better grip on the same tires than an M5.

The looser rear end of the M5 is what makes it easier to drive, and more intuitive than the Viper. The high-revving nature makes it easier to gain traction in the M5, too... though with the ultra-wide rear meats, the Viper doesn't exactly burn all its power away in wheelspin, either.

 

[GT4_Rule]

Diesel fuel is denser (more energy) and burns for a longer period down the power stroke, the fuel is injected roughly 10 degrees BTDC (diesels are direct injection so fuel delivery is independant of the valves) and able to inject well into the power stroke.



Comparing a Forced induction Petrol to a N/A Deisel is a bit unfair.

Thanks Viper and Interceptor for your explanations