Magnets for TM paddle shifters mod

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by Outspacer, Jun 21, 2018.

  1. Outspacer

    Outspacer

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    Prompted by this post where @super_gt rounded up vids and pics, I decided to finally get round to doing this mod.

    So the question I had was "which magnets to get?" - the various videos used various sizes and strengths. Also, with neodymium it's hard to be sure that something sold as N42 or N52 is actually what it says it is - many reports of cheap magnets not having the strength they should have.

    I first chose 40x20x10 N42, with a 21.7kg pull rating. These give a very tactile feel but are a bit too strong for me - the morning after an hour or two of racing with them my fingers ached a bit (only slightly, but still). I used 3M command strips to attach them which are about 1mm thick, which reduced the strength slightly compared to just holding the magnet against the casing (or, I guess, using thin double-sided tape). So there's a little bit of tweaking that can be done by changing the distance from the paddles. (The minimum distance is about 3.5mm, from back of case to back of paddle, so 1mm increases that by about 30% which is not insignificant).

    The comparison vid and another on youtube are using 50x25x10 N52 (32kg pull) - which is a monster! There's another vid on youtube which used cylindrical 20x10 N52 (about 15kg pull) and the above mod vid which uses 30x20x10 N35 (unknown, probably between 10 and 15kg pull).

    I think that slimmer would be better for that strength range as it seems to me that it will be more efficient for this usage to have a larger surface area than to have more height. So I've just got two more types to try: 40x20x5 N52 (15.1kg) and 30x15x5 N42 epoxy coated (10.1kg). I have a feeling that the 15kg ones will be fine, but if the 10kg ones give sufficient tactility then their size and coating will look neater (not that it really matters) - I don't see any need to have them as beefy as possible.

    Will add more when those are tested :)
     
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  2. Outspacer

    Outspacer

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    Been experimenting with the 30x15x5 N42 epoxy coated 10.1kg magnets. With them fitted flush to the edge of the casing, the force needed to activate the switches is similar to the stock springs. However, it does of course feel entirely different to springs, with a much better, more tactile, feel.

    T300_Magnets_10kg1.jpg

    Then I had an idea for measuring it - I lowered the wheel slowly onto some scales with just the edge of the paddle on the scale. Stock springs rise in force from about 3 or 400g up to about 600g when the switch clicks. These magnets in that position start at about 640g then fall in force down to about 400g at activation. So the 10kg magnets give a useful reference point.

    Another way to tweak the strength is to fix the magnets so they overhang the edge of the casing, closer to the paddles. I tried it with them almost touching the paddles, and measured - about 1100g! However, the force still falls off to about 400g, so really I found this excessively tactile, with too much difference between min and max force. Overhanging the edge by about 1mm or so seems more like right for me - 750g measured, still falling off to about 400g.

    I was hoping that by trying a few magnets and describing them in some detail that I would make it easier for people to choose magnets. But now there's two aspects to consider - tactility and strength - and both are going to be very much down to personal preference! At least it's quick and easy to move magnets to a different postion or swap them for another type, once the springs are removed.

    The summary is that for more strength and tactile feel ('snap') place the magnet closer to the paddle. For less strength and less snap, closer to the middle of the wheel. There is a surprisingly large difference in strength between the two extremes, making choice of magnet less critical, but I think the sweet spot is flush with or just over the edge of the casing.
     
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  3. super_gt

    super_gt

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    This is very interesting,Thank you!
    I was thinking to do this mod to this steering wheel but the paddles are stainless steel.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Outspacer

    Outspacer

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    A quick measure of the 40x20x10 21kg magnet roughly where I had it before, just a tiny bit inside of flush with the edge - 1050g falling to about 850g. That's about where most people seem to be placing the magnets, and to my mind it doesn't give a great tactile response - too little difference between min and max.

    Roughly the lower force seems to mostly follow the strength of the magnet and doesn't change much with positioning, whereas the higher initial force is really sensitive to positioning.


    No problem! I'm just waffling on in case it's useful :)

    Stainless is nice :) ... but not for this :( Maybe you could stick a flat piece of steel on somewhere? Probably doesn't need to be very thick.
     
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  5. super_gt

    super_gt

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    I probably can put this magnet between the paddle and plastic but it has to be glued to the paddle and I'm not sure how strong it will be.

    Без име.png
     
  6. Outspacer

    Outspacer

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    Ah, I was thinking of putting steel on the other side of the paddle so it wouldn't risk coming unstuck by the pull of the magnet. But, looking at that pic, the case looks to be thicker than the T300 - a magnet stuck to the back of the case would be further from the paddle, and even further from a bit of steel stuck to the other side of it. So you might be onto something there since it would make the gap smaller, as long as there room for it - I've no idea what the layout is like inside.
     
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  7. asteroulis

    asteroulis

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    Really useful information on the mod. I did it before I realised the magnet ratings with a pair of 50*25*10 magnets that feel great, and a second wheel with 30*15*10 magnets that feel less nice compared to the first. Now I'm gonna try with a round 25*20 for a third wheel.
     
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  8. Outspacer

    Outspacer

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    Great to hear from someone else who's trying different magnets! :cheers:

    I didn't get 50x25x10 to try so I'm not sure on this, but I reckon since the paddles are only 35mm wide that at least some of the extra 15mm of length goes to waste. Possibly a similar waste happens with greater than 20mm width as well, since some of the magnet would be over the pivot point of the paddle. So I'm not sure if they act much more strongly than 40x20x10 in this usage.

    The surface area of the magnet has much more effect than the height - halving the area is weaker than halving the height, for example. So that's one reason why I'm sticking to rectangular magnets. The other is that it means more magnet is further from the pivot of the paddle, making it more effective.

    Where are your 30x15x10 magnets positioned - do they overhang the edge a little? If not, probably worth trying that first :) (By the edge I mean the straight edge where the paddle sticks out, not the rounded parts which are different on the various button boxes).
     
  9. super_gt

    super_gt

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    I ordered these magnets:

    [​IMG]
    Neodymium magnet with patch cube 30x10x1 N 80 ° C - set 2 pcs, VMM4-N35
    Length A 30 mm
    on magnetic surface B 10 mm
    Height C 1 mm
    Thermal resistance 80 ° C
    Separation force (H) 10 N
    Separation force (kg) 1 kg
    Magnetic Properties VMM4-N35
    Weight 4.6 g

    [​IMG]
    Neodymium magnet cube 30x10x10 N 80 ° C, VMM4-N35
    Length A 30 mm
    on magnetic surface B 10
    mm
    Height C 10
    mm
    Thermal resistance 80
    ° C
    Separation force (H) 80.4
    N
    Separation force (kg) 8.04
    kg
    Magnetic Properties VMM4-N35
    Weight 22.5
    g

    Let's see if this will work.
     
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  10. super_gt

    super_gt

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    Plan change:

    (The bolts are at the height of the plastic)

    Snapshot_20180624.JPG
    Snapshot_20180624_11.JPG

    Before

    Snapshot_20180624_3.JPG

    After

    Snapshot_20180624_4.JPG

    Before

    Snapshot_20180624_8.JPG

    After

    Snapshot_20180624_7.JPG

    The magnets will arrive next week and then I will test it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
  11. Anuso

    Anuso

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    4
    Hi guys! I'm new around here. I'm Anuso and paly on xbox one with thrustmaster ts xw racer wheel. I wanted to do the magnets paddles mod and after watching a few videos and reading about it for a while, I have a doubt wich you might be able to solve: the things is: why bother taking the springs off? do they make the magnet behave in a different way? is it regarding the feeling of the paddles? the magnet will harden the paddles and they will snap even with the springs, right? excuse my ignorance hehehe and thank you!
     
  12. super_gt

    super_gt

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    Yes, but the snap will not be as strong as without springs. If you do not feel confident about disassembling the steering wheel or you don't want to void your warranty try it without removing the springs because even this way the feel will be improved. I've tried my this mod with and without springs.
     
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  13. Outspacer

    Outspacer

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    With the magnets I chose there would be very little snap at all if the springs were still there. It would also feel a lot stiffer. In my case it would start at 1150g and reduce to 1000g where the switch activates - that would get quite tiring, I think, compared to my 750g down to 400g.

    I'd say it's probably only an option to leave the springs in if you think you'll want a pretty firm feel (over 1500g at the start) - then hanging the magnets over the case towards the paddle would increase the tactile snap.
     
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  14. Anuso

    Anuso

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    Im thinking on getting the 50x25x10mm from aliexpress. Ill try without taking the springs off and placing the magnet the closer to the paddle the better and if i am satisfied ill leave it like that. If not ill try to take the springs off. Thanks a lot for your answers!!!
     
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  15. super_gt

    super_gt

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    These magnets look like a perfect fit for Thrustmaster wheels:

     
  16. asteroulis

    asteroulis

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    Compact kit indeed , but if you don't feel it you cannot judge it tbh. My latest magnets that I tried were 30*20*10mm , and I think they were slightly more than needed. So what I thought was why not get smaller ones and try to build up to the force that one feels comfortable. So instead of using 30*20*10 one can use more pieces of 30*20*3 or whatever. Once the first magnet is glued then the rest just stack up and add force..
     
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  17. Anuso

    Anuso

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    I finally got them! I didn't take the springs off and i'm very happy with the result. The magnets 50x25x10mm are very strong and so the paddles feel. At first I thought it would be a bit too much but I got used to it straight away. They need a hard pull and snap nicely. Thanks for your pieces of advice!

    Pd: On Thrustmaster Sparco P310 Competition Wheel add on
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
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  18. Nitefall

    Nitefall

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    1
    Im not sure if it's inappropriate to post here after so long but I want to upgrade my wheel and I am wondering if the magnet has to be square? Does it pull through the plastic or does it pull over the edge?
     
  19. Anuso

    Anuso

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    4
    If it touches the edge the snap will be stronger (or as close as possible). I didn't remove the springs and I like the strenth I need to pull the paddles
     
  20. Daz555

    Daz555

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    965
    I picked up some generic neodymium magnets from ebay for a few quid - 50x20x8mm which have worked out really well in terms of fit and strength. If you want a stronger pull then of course you can go bigger on the magnets. I would not go too much wider than 20mm however as you need to leave some room so that you can tighten the locking nut easily to secure the rim to the base.

    I removed the springs from the wheel also to remove the slightly spongy feel they caused. It feels more responsive to me with the magnets on their own.

    Here is how my 599xx rim looks now - the magnets are secured with adhesive pads (perhaps 0.5mm thick):

    IMG_20200121_013947.png
     
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