Manual Transmission

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Take a slow car around Laguna Seca and learn how to race with manual.

Each car has a powerband that you want to stay in. A powerband is the area of the rpm range where your engine generates the most power (most acceleration).

Manual allows you to choose where to shift so that you can take advantage of this.

Generally, in a real car you want to shift before redline, but in the game shift well into it (just before the limiter) seems to work well for most cases.

Shift down for turns as you are braking, you always want to be in a gear that gives you acceleration out of a corner.

You want to set up your racing transmission for the car and for the specific track to maximize performance.
 
Use your ears.

When the engine note sounds right (or more importantly, just about to be wrong), change up. Under braking there's two schools of thought - I prefer to stay in a higher gear longer and do all my downshifting in a short time, though some like to change down through the gears as they're braking.
 
You should really try to learn how to use manual. You have so much more control and because of that you have a small advantage. Not sure if the advantage is proven, but I feel like I have one. Using manual in the game is not like in real life. There is no clutch so all you have to do is press one button for shifting up, and one button for shifting down. Once you've learned how to use manual, you'll wonder why you ever used automatic. Good luck.
 
You could also do it the way I've trained myself to do it: shift by the next 0 or 5 until fuel cut-off. For example, if 3rd gear cuts off at 97 MPH, shift into 4th at 95 MPH. It actually works quite well for me. Some cars, however, don't like to shift this way, particularly big engined cars and supercharged cars, like the 'Cuda 440-6 or the Chevelle SS 454 (or the R-34 Skyline in the transition from 5th to 6th gear), as the tourque is very low down in the rev range instead of up by the rev line, so if you shift at high RPM's you may end up being past the peak torque figure for the car in the next gear. Similarly, some cars run out of power in the higher revs. It all depends on the car.
 
I upshift by sound, or sometimes the light depending on what car I'm driving. Some cars don't like to be buried into the red, and benefit from a short-shift to use more torque.

When downshifting, I'll downshift pretty much every time I hit the brakes, and then in a long braking section I downshift every 1/2second or so, maybe it's longer, I dunno? I'm usually quite rythmic in the downshifting.

These methods work for me. :)
 
After you get a little practice, you'll be able to tell by ear. If the engine sounds like it's laboring, downshift once. If it sounds like you're not accelerating any more, upshift once.

For the most part, you can upshift well after the red light starts blinking. But beware the rev limiter which is above the redline; hitting that will slow you down a lot.
 
So that's why some cars kinda go weak on 6th gear.

About two months ago, I brought GT4 to my friend's house, and we raced the Test Course.

He picked the BMW with the most hp (can't remember the name). I picked the Corvette C5. By the time I was on 6th gear, I was losing power while my friend's BMW was having no problems. I would've lost the race If it weren't for drafting and some Schumacher techniques. :sly:
 
Ekh... the BMW with the most power? The M5 is much muc faster than the C5 Corvette. Good win if you did.

One thing with the auto-tranny, high revving cars like the M5 are really shortchanged by it unless you use the gear-hold (R2) button, as their powerband extends past redline. Cars with long gears and high torque, like the Mercedes E55, are at a disadvantage, because you lose a lot of time while the AT "hunts" for the right gear.
 
Here's a hint. When you hear, VRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM, TAT, TAT, TAT, TAT, TAT, TAT......... It's time to upshift. :lol: lol just kidding.

But seriously I've been driving with manual for years now (even in real life) In real life you can feel when you need to shift, I ran a 5-speed that didn't have a tach for over a year and it's alot easier than you think. In videogames, though, I still just go by ear, or if that's not obvious enough I keep an eye on it and shift when it touches red line. This game has a really cool feature that when you red line, a red light starts flashing and it's easily seen out of the corner of your eye (last thing you want to do is take your eyes of the road) so if nothing else you'll see that.
And for downshifting, you'll just know what gear you need to downshift into for each turn after a while, and you need to know what gear your in so you know how many gears to go down to. And remember, it's always better to be in too high of a gear than too low of a gear for a turn.

Other than that just practice, practice, practice and don't worry about making mistakes.

P.S. DON'T DOWNSHIFT FROM 4th GEAR RED LINE DOWN TO 1st GEAR WHILE ACCELERATING!!!!! Unless, ofcourse, you don't like your engine, or your hood after the cylinder head blows a hole in it.
 
Well, I've only ever driven manual cars in real life (maybe a little lie, I drove an auto S13 silvia for about 5 minutes once). I gotta say that downshifts on GT4 suck, there isn't proper engine breaking and that's the hardest thing I found getting used to using manual on GT4. Also, I'd really like to be able to set the shift light on each car. After playing GT since the beginning on auto it took me about an hour to get fully used to driving manual, it's kinda strange to start with but definately adds to the experience, a lot more fun than just accelerate, brake, turn.
 
Yet another benefit of manual - You can shortshift, meaning shifting up a gear (early) to prevent the engine from hitting the powerband - which will help reduce wheelspin on slippery surfaces with high powered cars...

Not all cars benefit from this though. Especially Scoobys with turbo upgrades - drop it out of the powerband and you've got time to check the oil and tire pressure before it picks up again :grumpy:
 
Why is it that you shift in the game so late, like at redline, but in real life you shift at 3000 or 4000 RPM? Is it because you're racing in the game and going faster? I know it's a dumb question but I would like to know.
 
Flerbizky
Especially Scoobys with turbo upgrades - drop it out of the powerband and you've got time to check the oil and tire pressure before it picks up again :grumpy:

:lol::lol::lol:



STiGoFLyBy
Why is it that you shift in the game so late, like at redline, but in real life you shift at 3000 or 4000 RPM? Is it because you're racing in the game and going faster? I know it's a dumb question but I would like to know.

if you shift that high in real life then your engines gonna take a bit of a beating. we drive casually around rather than ragging it and killing ourselves
 
The first thing I do before even driving the car is to go into the settings and look at the powerband. I shift at the point where the peak HP lies. I never take it to the full extent unless I have to (i.e. difficult passing or cornering). I really dont feel like typing anything else but just read what everyone else says because they are all correct. My only suggestion is to shift at the point on the tach where the peak HP is achieved.
 
STiGoFLyBy
Why is it that you shift in the game so late, like at redline, but in real life you shift at 3000 or 4000 RPM?
In real life racers shift at the redline, or wherever the calculated best shift point is. In real life, however, racers also get their engines rebuilt every couple hundred to couple thousand miles, even in near-stock classes. They also bring a spare to the track...
95GTIVR6
My only suggestion is to shift at the point on the tach where the peak HP is achieved.
This is not usually the best method. In most cases, you will do better to stay in the lower gear well past the power peak, so that when you shift up, you are starting closer to the power peak in the new gear. What you lose in going past the peak is usually much much more than offset by the gains you make by being nearer the peak on the other side of the shift.
 
Duke
This is not usually the best method. In most cases, you will do better to stay in the lower gear well past the power peak, so that when you shift up, you are starting closer to the power peak in the new gear. What you lose in going past the peak is usually much much more than offset by the gains you make by being nearer the peak on the other side of the shift.

I forget what license test it is but I think its for the B license. But you have to drive the Viper from stop to stop. I noticed that if i shifted where the limiter was, the power and pull was not as good after I shifted. When I shifted right where the redline started it had better pull. (I think that was how it went). I noticed this from the auto-ghost update.

But yes, you are correct in stating that that its not always the best method. It really depends on your driving style and the torque/horsepower band of the vehicle. I usually tend not to extend it really far into the redline because its not how I would drive in RL. Yes, I know its a game but I still feel I get more out of my cars with earlier shifting. Hell, sometimes I wont even shift at the redline and just cruise.
 
95GTIVR6
I noticed that if i shifted where the limiter was, the power and pull was not as good after I shifted. When I shifted right where the redline started it had better pull.
That's very possible. The Viper is a big, high-displacement car with the power peak down fairly low. So shifting at redline may well be the best place for it.

But what you said is to shift at the power peak, which is not a good method. Imagine the power curve as a hill. The trick is to keep your engine revs near the top of the hill. So you want to go past the power peak, and down the back side until your shifts are bringing the revs back to about the same height on the front side of the hill. This maximizes your available power at all times.

If you shift at the power peak, though, at the top of the hill, you start your next gear way down near the bottom. Not good.
 
Duke
That's very possible. The Viper is a big, high-displacement car with the power peak down fairly low. So shifting at redline may well be the best place for it.

But what you said is to shift at the power peak, which is not a good method. Imagine the power curve as a hill. The trick is to keep your engine revs near the top of the hill. So you want to go past the power peak, and down the back side until your shifts are bringing the revs back to about the same height on the front side of the hill. This maximizes your available power at all times.

If you shift at the power peak, though, at the top of the hill, you start your next gear way down near the bottom. Not good.

Yes, you stand true once again. But I also look at the torque cirve in relation to the power curve. In many of my cars, I feel i benefit shifting earlier to take advantage of the torque to bring me back to speed (I keep NA cars NA). When I was driving my '78 Mirage around Citta di Aria, I found on some of the uphill sections it actually benefitted me more to be at a lower rpm to take advantage of the torque.

I think I will have to test both theories once I can get around to playing. Yours does seem more viable than mine (im just used to doing it that way) but if I can find an accurate series of tests I will deffinatley see which bebefits more.

Again, I still think that modifications play a major role in appropriate shift times.
 
95GTIVR6
Again, I still think that modifications play a major role in appropriate shift times.
Agreed. For instance, in GT3 anyway, the JGTC Skylines definitely benefitted from being kept below about 5500 rpm, even though their redlines were something like 7500 rpm.

Here's a long post that sheds some theoretical light on the subject:
Ed Lansinger
Greetings to all who love torque and horsepower,

First, a clarification: torque is no more real than power. Consider torque and power as concepts used to describe how things interact to produce movement and how "energy" (another concept) is transferred.

Both torque and power can be observed "directly". Think of slowing a free-spinning tire with your hand. Feel the tug on your palm and the tension in your arm? That's a measure of torque, the torque the tire experiences as a result of your palm slowing it down. Feel the heat build up from friction? That's a measure of power.

Incidentally, water brake dynamometers get a direct measurement of power by measuring the increase in the temperature of water flowing past a propeller spun by the engine under test. You can solve for torque if you know engine RPM.

MAXIMUM ACCELERATION vs. TORQUE:

I'd *like* to think that torque is an intuitively easier concept to understand. If that were true, though, then more people would understand the relationship between torque, horsepower, and vehicle acceleration. In reality, none of it is intuitive. If it were, Newton wouldn't be considered the Really Great Guy that he is.

The classic mistake is to conclude that the fastest way down, let's say, a 1/4 mile drag strip is to keep the engine RPM at the torque peak (or as close as possible). The technique is usually stated as "shift just after the torque peak", or "shift N RPM above the torque peak so you are N RPM below the torque peak in the next gear when you finish the shift".

Unfortunately, *engine* torque does not tell you the full story. What matters is the torque *delivered to the tires*, including the effects of the transmission. We all know a car does not accelerate as hard in second gear at peak torque RPM as it does in first gear. The transmission amplifies or multiplies the torque coming from the engine by a factor equal to the gear ratio. So to determine how much the car is accelerating at a particular instant, you have to know both the torque output of the engine as well as the gear ratio.

To figure out your shift points knowing only torque, generate tables of transmission output torque vs. RPM for each gear. To get transmission output torque, multiply the engine torque by the gear ratio. You are simply comparing gear to gear, so the final drive ratio can be ignored. You may also need to know the relationship between RPM in one gear and RPM in another gear (which is RPM * (gear2ratio / gear1ratio) at any particular vehicle speed.) Then it's easy to see what shift points to choose to maximize your transmission output torque at all times.

Here's an example for the Neon's DOHC motor w/ std. 5spd. Before you flame, understand that I do not have an accurate torque curve for this motor. I'm estimating visually from the curve printed in the '99 brochure, which is seriously flawed (it makes a lot more sense if the torque curve is shifted to the right 1000 RPM). I get:

Engine Transmission output torque (ft-lb):
Torque 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
RPM (ft-lb) 3.54 2.13 1.36 1.03 0.72 <- gear ratio
---- ----- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
1000 50 177 107 68 52 36
1500 65 230 138 88 67 47
2000 80 283 170 109 82 58
2500 92 326 196 125 95 66
3000 104 368 222 141 107 75
3500 114 404 243 155 117 82
4000 120 425 256 163 124 86
4500 125 443 266 170 129 90
5000 130 460 277 177 134 94
5500 133 471 283 181 137 96
6000 130 460 277 177 134 94
6500 122 432 260 166 126 88
7000 110 389 234 150 113 79

(note: peak torque is at 5500 RPM, peak horsepower is at 6500 RPM)

Without graphing, there's something immediately apparent: in any gear, at 7000 RPM, the transmission torque output is always higher than at any RPM in the next gear up. What this means is, for this car:

Shift at the redline, not at the torque peak!

Walk through an example. You're hammering down the track in 1st gear. Engine RPM is 6000, just past the engine's torque peak. Do you shift? Well, if you do, the engine will be pulled down to 3600 RPM, and 2nd gear will send 246 ft-lb of torque to the wheels (actually, to the differential first, which amplifies the torque by a constant factor and sends it to the wheels). Don't you think it would be better to hold it in first gear? Torque is dropping off, but it's still 389 ft-lb at 7000 RPM, right before the 7200 RPM redline. So, for this powertrain, first gear is *always* the best deal for acceleration, at any speed, except that you can't accelerate past the redline.

The 1-2 shift at 7200 RPM pulls the engine down to 4400 RPM, where 2nd will deliver 265 ft-lb of torque. Not only did you win by maintaining the high torque of 1st all the way to 7200 RPM, you are now better off in second gear.

Same thing goes for the 2-3 shift. 2nd gear output torque at the redline is still greater than 3rd gear output torque at any engine speed, so you wind her out as far as she'll go before you shift to 3rd. Same for the 3-4, same for the 4-5.

But, you ask, isn't your acceleration greatest at the torque peak? Yes, it is! BUT ONLY WITHIN THAT GEAR. The next gear down will give you even greater acceleration at the same speed, unless the vehicle speed is too high for that gear.

To use engine torque to understand how your car performs, you MUST include the effects of the transmission.

MAXIMUM ACCELERATION vs. POWER:

OK, so what about power? As has been noted by a previous contributor, Power (hp) = Torque (ft-lb) * RPM / 5252. Note that power is also force * velocity, specifically:

Power (hp) = Force (lb) * Velocity (MPH) / 374

That's net horsepower, which is engine power minus losses like transmission and tire friction. The force is the sum of the longitudinal forces at the contact patches of the two driven tires.

Hmmm... P = F * V ...rearrange to get F = P / V ... that means that you get the maximum force pushing the car if you maximize your *Power* at any given velocity. This gives us another useful rule:

Shift to maximize engine POWER, not engine torque!

This is *exactly* the same as saying "shift to maximize transmission output torque". But it's a little easier to apply. Here's how.

Using the torque information above, I get the following power curve:

RPM HP
1000 10
1500 19
2000 30
2500 44
3000 59
3500 76
4000 91
4500 107
5000 124
5500 139 (peak torque)
6000 149
6500 151 (peak power)
7000 147

The tires don't see quite these numbers due to losses, but I'm going to assume that the losses are comparable from gear to gear and that the overall shape of the power curve remains the same.

Applying the maximum power rule, we'd like to race down the 1/4 mile with the engine always as close to 6500 RPM as possible. If we had a continuously variable transmission, the lowest E.T. would be achieved by keeping the engine dead on 6500 RPM. 5500 is not the best; at any vehicle speed, the engine would put out more torque but the transmission will have a less advantageous gear ratio, so you get a net loss of force to the tires. Apply P = F * V or P = T * RPM to prove this.

Since the Neon doesn't have a CVT, we have to shift. The shift points are pretty easy to determine. In fact, you don't really need to know anything about the gear ratios of the different gears, which is why power is sometimes easier to understand than torque.

I'm going to assume that the DOHC puts out at least 145 horsepower at the redline (7200 RPM). Shifting at the redline in each gear should drag the engine down as follows:

shift RPM drop Horsepower change
------ --------------- ------------------
1->2 7200->4700 145->114
2->3 7200->4600 145->110
3->4 7200->5500 145->139
4->5 7200->5000 145->124

I derived this, but all you really need to do is drive the car, shift, and find out where the motor lands.

Note - and this is important - the transmission does not amplify power. Power in = power out, minus losses (which are low for a manual transmission). This is predicted by the law of conservation of energy.

Is 7200 the correct shift point? It would *not* be the correct shift point if the engine was making more power in the new gear than the old gear. That would mean that you should have shifted earlier. But in this case, the power output at redline is always greater than the power output after the shift. So it's the best performance you can get.

A more rigorous way of doing this is to graph horsepower vs. velocity in each of the gears. If power in one gear drops below the horsepower of the next gear at a particular MPH, then that MPH is where you should shift, otherwise shift at the redline.

I leave as an exercise for the reader the following: predicting shift points based on engine torque, RPM, and gear ratio gives the same results as predicting shift points based on power and vehicle velocity.

EXCEPTIONS:

There are no exceptions; a car running at its (net) power peak can accelerate no harder at that same vehicle speed. There is no better gear to choose, even if another gear would place the engine closer to its torque peak. You'll find that a car running at peak power at a given vehicle speed is delivering the maximum possible torque to the tires (although the engine may not be spinning at its torque peak). This derives immediately from first principles in physics.

However, note the following:
-- Transmission losses are not shown on engine power curves. The net power curve (power delivered to the ground) may have a different shape or even a different peak RPM as a result. This would result in different shift point. Best results are obtained from a power curve measured by a chassis dynamometer.
-- The discussion above assumes negligible tire slip. If you exceed the maximum traction available from the tires, then additional power doesn't help. That's why it's sometimes no loss at all to shift early when the tires break loose, and in fact it can be a benefit.

TO THE POINT!

Torque and power are (almost) flip sides of the same coin. Increasing the torque of an engine at a particular RPM is the same as increasing the power output at the same RPM. Power is just as useful and relevant in determining vehicle performance as is torque. In some situations it's more useful, because you may not have to play with gear ratios and a calculator to understand what's going on.

A car accelerates hardest with gearing selected to stay as close as possible to the engine *power* peak, subject to the traction capability of the tires. Not all cars should be shifted at the redline for maximum performance. But it's true for many cars. You can determine optimal shift points by graphing horsepower vs. velocity or transmission torque vs. RPM. Engine torque alone will not determine shift points."

- Ed Lansinger
(Design Engineer, Ford Motor Company, Visteon Automotive Systems)
(former Design Engineer at GM Powertrain; inventor of Cadillac's Performance Algorithm Shifting feature)
Sorry about the length, but that's a good read.
 
Duke
Agreed. For instance, in GT3 anyway, the JGTC Skylines definitely benefitted from being kept below about 5500 rpm, even though their redlines were something like 7500 rpm.

Here's a long post that sheds some theoretical light on the subject:

Sorry about the length, but that's a good read.

I was just about to post exactly the same thing, its an excellent read.

Regards

Scaff
 
Yes, a very good read indeed.

So basically, in order to really get the best out of your power/torque band, you need to fine tune the gear ratios (if applicable) to the point that when you shift the rpm's drop to the peak torque so you dont loose any hp to the wheels but still maintain the maximum amount of torque? Did I understand that correct?
 
STiGoFLyBy
Why is it that you shift in the game so late, like at redline, but in real life you shift at 3000 or 4000 RPM? Is it because you're racing in the game and going faster? I know it's a dumb question but I would like to know.

In addition to all of the reasons people have already mentioned, I'll say that it saves fuel as well. Ever wonder why a car with a manual transmission gets better reported fuel mileage (or kilometerage) than the exact same car with an automatic? It's because automatics suck at shifting at the proper time, and lack the ability to coast (I guess you could put it in neutral down a hill, but most people won't think of that).

Also, there is no point redlining it if you're stuck behind a minivan going 35 anyway. :)
 
kylehnat
In addition to all of the reasons people have already mentioned, I'll say that it saves fuel as well. Ever wonder why a car with a manual transmission gets better reported fuel mileage (or kilometerage) than the exact same car with an automatic? It's because automatics suck at shifting at the proper time, and lack the ability to coast (I guess you could put it in neutral down a hill, but most people won't think of that).

What?!

A modern engine, with the clutch depressed, will use a small amount of fuel in order to stop itself from stalling. With the clutch untouched, the wheels will drive the engine under deceleration and no fuel will be used at all.

Coasting is the enemy of fuel economy*.


*This may or may not apply to OHV.
 
Famine
What?!

A modern engine, with the clutch depressed, will use a small amount of fuel in order to stop itself from stalling. With the clutch untouched, the wheels will drive the engine under deceleration and no fuel will be used at all.

Coasting is the enemy of fuel economy*.


*This may or may not apply to OHV.

Do you know anything about combustion? Under engine braking, the cylinders are stilll firing and burning fuel. Coasting, the cylinders are firing, but at idle speed, as opposed to a couple thousand RPM. Bottom line: when the engine is running, it is burning fuel, so in order to save gas, the revs should be kept as low as possible (without sputtering). Driving normally, I get about 29-30 mpg. Driving the SAME routes at the same times of day, but using more coasting, i can get 32-33 mpg. And, no there aren't any changing variables in that.
 
kylehnat
Do you know anything about combustion? Under engine braking, the cylinders are stilll firing and burning fuel. Coasting, the cylinders are firing, but at idle speed, as opposed to a couple thousand RPM. Bottom line: when the engine is running, it is burning fuel, so in order to save gas, the revs should be kept as low as possible (without sputtering). Driving normally, I get about 29-30 mpg. Driving the SAME routes at the same times of day, but using more coasting, i can get 32-33 mpg. And, no there aren't any changing variables in that.

Save your condescension and look it up.

If you brake in gear, the wheels drive the engine and the engine uses no fuel. If you brake and take the car out of gear, the engine drives the engine, using up 800-1500rpm's worth of fuel.
 
Please point me to your source; I'd like to see it.
 
*shrugs* Find a car maker that has an electronic fuel-injected engine in their range. That should do it.

Failing that, Google for "fuel-saving tips".
 
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