McLaren MP4-12C: Lets make it better.

  • Thread starter paskowitz
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Z1-AV69
It's indeed quicker than the Tuner Challenge entries. I never doubted that those tunes work and are quick btw. But imo it has nothing to do with front being rear etc. With your tune you can clearly feel it's the front which has all the travel.
I don't know what makes those tunes so quick. I doubt a real car with -35/+15 (your tune reversed) would be. So I consider those tunes exploits.
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Changing the ride height doesn't affect the amount of travel the suspension has.

The spring is a fixed length.
 
Pretty sure that was incorrect in GT4 as 'slammed' cars would bottom out and you'd get unpredictable handling when doing so...

In GT5, I haven't really 'slammed' cars.
 
Stotty
Changing the ride height doesn't affect the amount of travel the suspension has.

The spring is a fixed length.
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budious
As for the ride height itself, I'm quite convinced that it is an extension of suspension travel in addition to a physical ride height change in the car. I've noted in the past where a car will handle as though a +5 addition of ride height equates to a %5 increase in suspension stiffness.
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As said, I agree with budious on this. Let's keep the discussion about that matter in the other thread.
 
I improved my close to stock tune somewhat, but it is still far from it's real world performance. Judging from this month test in the German Sport Auto, you need tyes 1 step better than a 458 Italia to get the real difference. So if sports hards are real for an Italia (they are a little too good), you would need sports medium on a MP4-12C to get the real difference.
 
Z1-AV69
I improved my close to stock tune somewhat, but it is still far from it's real world performance. Judging from this month test in the German Sport Auto, you need tyes 1 step better than a 458 Italia to get the real difference. So if sports hards are real for an Italia (they are a little too good), you would need sports medium on a MP4-12C to get the real difference.
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What was your tuning setup...? What sort of time on can you set on the "Ring" with that....?
 
My current "street" tune is:

McLaren MP4-12C
sports exhaust (sound is so much better)
custom LSD
custom suspension

brakes: 5/6
LSD: 8/13/5
height: -13/0
springs: 10.9/15.9
extension: 5/7
compression: 7/5
anti-roll: 5/3
camber: 2.0/1.0
toe: -0.20/0.00

sports medium tyres
ABS: 1 else off

The tune is optimized for traction. I hear my tunes don't turn in well while braking. I brake straight line and can ease the brakes slightly if necessary for turn in, so I don't mind that.

I never really tried where the limit of this tune is at the ring. So I just did a quick lap for you on sports medium and it was a 7.17,771.
 
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Z1-AV69
My current "street" tune is:

McLaren MP4-12C
sports exhaust (sound is so much better)
custom LSD
custom suspension

brakes: 5/6
LSD: 8/13/5
height: -13/0
springs: 10.9/15.9
extension: 5/7
compression: 7/5
anti-roll: 5/3
camber: 2.0/1.0
toe: -0.20/0.00

sports medium tyres
ABS: 1 else off

The tune is optimized for traction. I hear my tunes don't turn in well while braking. I brake straight line and can ease the brakes slightly if necessary for turn in, so I don't mind that.

I never really tried where the limit of this tune is at the ring. So I just did a quick lap for you on sports medium and it was a 7.17,771.
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Cheers:tup: Will this setup work with soft tyres...?
 
With sports softs yes. With racing tyres, especially softs, I prefer other settings. At least increase front camber to 3.0 and maybe LSD accel to 17 for racing softs.
 
I found this car more suited to flatter, less bumpy tracks so that's what I tuned it for. I still take it once in a while to Deep Forest, Trial Mountain etc. but as more of a challenge, although it still wins sometimes. This tune below is for the flatter tracks.

Some sample times I remember, online, on RS tires, at 600pp:
1:24.xx GP/D <<< GTR Academy 1:23
1:10 Deep Forest <<< GTR Vspec around 1:09.2
59.1 Grand Valley East <<< as fast as just about everything else
6:4xx Nurb << I don't race there, don't know the track very well, but took it out for one lap a few minutes ago for this thread only and was around 6:45...not sure if that's a good time or not but I'm sure it's capable of being much faster in the right hands. Take it for what it's worth.

I've never run the car on SS tires but for this thread I tried it at a couple of tracks. It was easily driveable, so long as you could feather the throttle on take off out of most corners as needed. Not a problem with my DFGT, could be an issue with a DS3.

1:03.5 GVE
1:15.xx Deep Forest
Again, I have nothing to compare those times to, maybe you guys would know better what good SS times are at 600pp


brakes: 5/6
LSD: 8/13/13
height: -10/-10
springs: 14.7/15.7
extension: 8/8
compression: 8/8
anti-roll: 1/1
camber: 1.9/1.3
toe: +.06/+.40
RS or SS tires
ABS=1

I found the trick to this car, as with the Enzo and several other cars in this game, is that it doesn't drive like an ordinary car, and to drive within the limits it gives you. You can't drive it like a GTR or McLaren F1, trail braking down to the apex and accelerating out early and hard. If you do that you'll never get the most out of the car and will always be disappointed. You have to ease it into the corner, keep it within the traction limits and get set up for early exit, taking care to feather the throttle as needed. Getting the power down early is everything in this car, the corners just get in the way. The car is faster in a straight line at a given PP level than most every other car. At GVE for example as you cross the finish line you are up about 10 km/h from the typical 600pp car.

This car's advantage in GT5 is straightline speed not cornering. Drive the car within it's limits, adjust your style a bit and it's in the top 25% of cars in it's PP range, on the tracks it's suited for.
 
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Johnnypenso
I found this car more suited to flatter, less bumpy tracks so that's what I tuned it for. I still take it once in a while to Deep Forest, Trial Mountain etc. but as more of a challenge, although it still wins sometimes. This tune below is for the flatter tracks.

Some sample times I remember, online, on RS tires, at 600pp:
1:24.xx GP/D <<< GTR Academy 1:23
1:10 Deep Forest <<< GTR Vspec around 1:09.2
59.1 Grand Valley East <<< as fast as just about everything else
6:4xx Nurb << I don't race there, don't know the track very well, but took it out for one lap a few minutes ago for this thread only and was around 6:45...not sure if that's a good time or not but I'm sure it's capable of being much faster in the right hands. Take it for what it's worth.

I've never run the car on SS tires but for this thread I tried it at a couple of tracks. It was easily driveable, so long as you could feather the throttle on take off out of most corners as needed. Not a problem with my DFGT, could be an issue with a DS3.

1:03.5 GVE
1:15.xx Deep Forest
Again, I have nothing to compare those times to, maybe you guys would know better what good SS times are at 600pp


brakes: 5/6
LSD: 8/13/13
height: -10/-10
springs: 14.7/15.7
extension: 8/8
compression: 8/8
anti-roll: 1/1
camber: 1.9/1.3
toe: +.06/+.40
RS or SS tires
ABS=1

I found the trick to this car, as with the Enzo and several other cars in this game, is that it doesn't drive like an ordinary car, and to drive within the limits it gives you. You can't drive it like a GTR or McLaren F1, trail braking down to the apex and accelerating out early and hard. If you do that you'll never get the most out of the car and will always be disappointed. You have to ease it into the corner, keep it within the traction limits and get set up for early exit, taking care to feather the throttle as needed. Getting the power down early is everything in this car, the corners just get in the way. The car is faster in a straight line at a given PP level than most every other car. At GVE for example as you cross the finish line you are up about 10 km/h from the typical 600pp car.

This car's advantage in GT5 is straightline speed not cornering. Drive the car within it's limits, adjust your style a bit and it's in the top 25% of cars in it's PP range, on the tracks it's suited for.
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Love this car and this sounds like a good tune! I'll try it out and let you know my thoughts:tup:
 
I'm out of town for a couple of days but I'd appreciate some feedback...good or bad...lol.
 
That's entirely possible. I don't run the 'Ring very often and never set up cars for there. I have found though that what you "feel" in GT5 and what is happening with your laptimes are often not as related as we think they are. I used to tune cars for sharp turn in as my first priority for months, but after messing with some positive toe figures and having the car feel like it was a bit sluggish at times , I found I was actually faster with positive toe.

I chalked it up to enhanced stability at high speeds and on corner exit. Sharp turn in benefits you only for a few dozen feet per corner, getting the power down early and having confidence in the stability of your ride, works everywhere. I tuned with a DFGT and most of the guys I know that use my tunes with a DS3 have to sharpen it up a bit. You can enhance the turn in by raising the front end a point or two, and usually by lowering the entire suspension a few points on both sides equally. Try adjusting the front ride height first and see what happens.
 
Johnnypenso
That's entirely possible. I don't run the 'Ring very often and never set up cars for there. I have found though that what you "feel" in GT5 and what is happening with your laptimes are often not as related as we think they are. I used to tune cars for sharp turn in as my first priority for months, but after messing with some positive toe figures and having the car feel like it was a bit sluggish at times , I found I was actually faster with positive toe.

I chalked it up to enhanced stability at high speeds and on corner exit. Sharp turn in benefits you only for a few dozen feet per corner, getting the power down early and having confidence in the stability of your ride, works everywhere. I tuned with a DFGT and most of the guys I know that use my tunes with a DS3 have to sharpen it up a bit. You can enhance the turn in by raising the front end a point or two, and usually by lowering the entire suspension a few points on both sides equally. Try adjusting the front ride height first and see what happens.
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Cheers, just saw this I'll give it a try:tup:
 
Z1-AV69
As an update to my previous post, after a few thousand kilometers more, I like this:

What to buy:
rear wing
oil change
sports exhaust
fully adjustable gearbox
LSD
fully adjustable suspension

Setup:
Ballast: 0kg at -7 position
Aero: 0/15
LSD: 8/17/5 (shamelessly stolen from Motor City Tunes, it's too good)
Height: -10/-7
Springs: 12.9/13.3
Damper Ext: 4/7
Damper Com: 6/5
Anti-Roll: 3/3
Camber (-): 2.0/0.8
Toe: -0.10/0.00
Brakes: 6/7 (ABS=1)

Gears:
highest gear: 3.600 (max speed: 383km/h)
1: 4060
2: 2680
3: 1930
4: 1485
5: 1190
6: 0985
7: 0840

Sport tyres of your preference. For use with racing tyres, increase camber to 3.0/1.0.
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I ran this exactly like your setup except that I had the downforce maxed to 28. It still ran like a dream. Well done and credit to Motor City for their LSD setup as well.
 
A question about spring stiffness: I read a driving theory book and they were talking about spring settings. The stiffer the springs the less body roll a car has, so if you want to improve the front grip of a car, you either strengthen the front springs or loosen the rear ones (this has the same relative effect, because by giving more slack in the rear, the front is stiffer in comparison). This is the general theory anyway. I know with some cars you have to do the opposite to get better turn in (Enzo) but I don't know why. Can someone explain to me why this sometimes is?
 

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