Moderators Taking Liberties

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I thought I was clear earlier in stating that I have a professional background in community development & management

Good for you 👍 Why are you raising these points exactly? This community is developed and managed already. Sounds to me like maybe you had your mighty modship on another forum yanked?

You also said something earlier I would like to go back to....

I really feel for limited communities like this when things like this happen

Why is that? Extremely derogitory statement right there. I've got news for you, this site will be just fine without you knowing what is best for us. :rolleyes:
 
It has nothing to do with being unhappy, it's more about expectations. The reasoning behind starting this thread was an attempt at two things.. I wanted to bring attention to one of a few inefficiencies I've noticed over the last week. Secondly I wanted to voice my opinion that the staff here seems to be coming inundated and in turn the moderating is suffering..
I would seem you wanted to more than bring attention to "one of a few inefficiencies", rather slate the site and its owner.


I thought I was clear earlier in stating that I have a professional background in community development & management.. When I was referencing tools I was talking about actual tools and or modifications within vBulletin forum software.
I am well aware that you are talking about the tools and modifications that exist within vBulletin, as was I. The point still remains that as a lot of those tools and modifications run on the staff side you can't be sure what we are running and what we are not and more importantly why.

Opinion and constructive feedback is always welcome, but you appear to be making an awful lot of yours based upon assumptions.


I don't think this launch is like anything the series has seen before.
Given that you are not a member of staff here I don't think you are in a position to state what it has been like in comparison to other launches.



My communities are & were not run like other official communities. I base my experiences from a very large private community and I utilize them in all of my new projects & staff.
Care to provide a few examples so that we can judge that for ourselves, as to date you are claiming a wealth of experience, but it is just that, a claim.

I would like to judge the manner in which your sites are run and operate for myself.


I'm just making suggestions, a few people seems to be misconstruing that.

Quite a few actually, they're not all train wrecks. 👍
A someone who trains professionally I can provide the following for free.

If your audience is not receptive to your message then either the message is wrong or the manner in which you are presenting it is. If we are not clear on what you are saying then try saying it in a different manner.


* Edit for Famine


Your post is a great example of the stressed mentality the staff is suffering from that I'm speaking of.
And yours is a great example of mistaking Famine's rather distinctive posting style for stress, as a member from 2005 I would have thought you would have been aware of this.


Scaff
 
I apologize but I'm starting to find this whole thread a bit humorous.. I can't possibly spend the time necessary sitting here restoring context and continuously explaining things.. I hope that the attention this thread has received from the staff here is not lost in the attacks from the staff.. I hope instead that the attention I was seeking for my concern has been acquired and the community painlessly makes it through this launch. :cheers:

As I'm not staff I doubt I'd ever get the last word so I'll hand that over to you folks. I have no intentions of continuing this, with every reply the message is further being lost. I'll be unsubscribing from this thread so I will not be notified of your replies. When you've all taken your shots feel free to close it. I hope you all learned something, it's a shame you all turned it into this.

pretending that someone who disagrees with you is in some way emotionally compromised is a poor debating technique. As is failing to address any of the points raised.

Are you going to let us all in on the secret of which huge community you successfully run without ever deleting or editing any posts (spammers must have a field day), closing any threads and changing the rules every time people decide they can't be bothered with them?

Or are you just going to pontificate to the owner of the largest single-platform, single-series fansite anywhere on the internet that, after all this time, he's "doin it rong"?

I wasn't aware this was a debate? I also failed to see you raise a valid point?

If you'd like my coversheet or a list of the communities I've administered feel free to PM me.

Good for you 👍 Why are you raising these points exactly? This community is developed and managed already. Sounds to me like maybe you had your mighty modship on another forum yanked?

You also said something earlier I would like to go back to....

I really feel for limited communities like this when things like this happen

Why is that? Extremely derogitory statement right there. I've got news for you, this site will be just fine without you knowing what is best for us. :rolleyes:

Please review an earlier post of mine again for why this thread was started. I can't read it to you, sorry. Also see above, still employed.. Thanks again.

It seems you're the second person to take that out of context. The very fact that so many of you feel on the defensive right now is unfortunately furthering my very point. That comment was not meant to come of as derogatory. What I was implying was that the site and the staff aren't accustomed to this amount of traffic and mayhem. I was simply offering my opinion trying to help where I thought I could. I never imaged I would be attacked by so many staffers so quickly or have my posts individually quoted.

You're attacking both GTP and the staff who spend their limited free time trying to moderate it. You're implying that we're all incompetent. You're backing this up with baseless claims of your own prowess, and you're failing to acknowledge that the majority of moderating activities would be hidden from a regular user yourself.

In short, you're attempting to claim you know what we're doing, but in a manner that demonstrates the opposite to be true. This all boils down to the fact that you're just sore your thread got closed.

Again, I never intended for my posts to come off as attacks on the staff.. I'm sorry you feel that way. Further, I never meant to imply anyone was incompetent.. I was simply trying to bring attention to something that concerned me. I thought I could help.. I'm well aware of "moderating activities" a vB forum is the same as another. I understand you're speaking to implementation but please understand I'm speaking to the effect of actual tools that vB & modifcations offer.


I would seem you wanted to more than bring attention to "one of a few inefficiencies", rather slate the site and its owner.

I am well aware that you are talking about the tools and modifications that exist within vBulletin, as was I. The point still remains that as a lot of those tools and modifications run on the staff side you can't be sure what we are running and what we are not and more importantly why.

Opinion and constructive feedback is always welcome, but you appear to be making an awful lot of yours based upon assumptions.

Given that you are not a member of staff here I don't think you are in a position to state what it has been like in comparison to other launches.

Care to provide a few examples so that we can judge that for ourselves, as to date you are claiming a wealth of experience, but it is just that, a claim.

I would like to judge the manner in which your sites are run and operate for myself.

A someone who trains professionally I can provide the following for free.

If your audience is not receptive to your message then either the message is wrong or the manner in which you are presenting it is. If we are not clear on what you are saying then try saying it in a different manner.

And yours is a great example of mistaking Famine's rather distinctive posting style for stress, as a member from 2005 I would have thought you would have been aware of this.

Scaff

It is clear my intentions were misinterpreted by quote a few of you.. Hopefully my actual message was not. What I will say is there are no secrets in what you do here.. Trust me you're not doing anything that hasn't been done before.
 
The site is normally fine, I've been a member since 2005.. Again, this is about current moderation.
Allow me to mention the mods in this thread already. I've been a super mod since 2005. As has Famine. As has Scaff. Giles was a supermod before that. And Jordan has been the site owner since forever.

So the moderation in 2005 was exactly the same as the moderation now. It's just easier now with all the tools vBulletin supplies....
 
I apologize but I'm starting to find this whole thread a bit humorous.

Bit late to the party. We were all giggling when you reported the site owner.

the attacks from the staff.

You have a very peculiar use of language.

You started off by attacking us. Calling us, and the site owner in particular, lazy ("lack of effort") and "ignorant". We have since questioned your reasoning, your motivation and your evidence but not stooped to the same level of personal criticism that you opened with.


I wasn't aware this was a debate?

You brought a contradicting viewpoint and argument. We're discussing it. That is a debate.

Pretending I'm "stressed" when I'm not is a superb way of telling us you're not interested in debate, but in painting us as the villains (despite your opening salvo of insults and our non-compliance in returning them) for whatever ends you've determined.


I also failed to see you raise a valid point?

That's because you're unwilling to entertain any notion that you're incorrect.

If you'd like my coversheet or a list of the communities I've administered feel free to PM me.

That's not particularly good advertising. If they're already on the internet and, thus, available in public I see no reason why you'd hide them.

That comment was not meant to come of as derogatory.

Unlike calling us lazy and ignorant?

What I was implying was that the site and the staff aren't accustomed to this amount of traffic and mayhem.

Then you're implying incorrectly due to invented statistics.

a vB forum is the same as another

Not really, no.

It is clear my intentions were misinterpreted by quote a few of you.. Hopefully my actual message was not. What I will say is there are no secrets in what you do here.. Trust me you're not doing anything that hasn't been done before.

No secrets? Then tell me what the last moderating action I took was (receiving your report of this thread doesn't count - incidentally, stop abusing the Report button. It is for reporting messages which contravene the AUP only).
 
If you'd like my coversheet or a list of the communities I've administered feel free to PM me.

I have already asked for that:

Care to provide a few examples so that we can judge that for ourselves, as to date you are claiming a wealth of experience, but it is just that, a claim.

So why not provide it for all to see?




It is clear my intentions were misinterpreted by quote a few of you.. Hopefully my actual message was not. What I will say is there are no secrets in what you do here.. Trust me you're not doing anything that hasn't been done before.
I've simply left this quote in as quite representative of the whole.

To be blunt you come across as rude, abrasive and arrogant.

Your opening salvo was insulting, your tone both condescending and smug. Yet to date you have offered nothing of substance (simply told us what you think we are doing wrong), and certainly nothing to validate your claims of experience.

The whole site you are posting on is our validation along with the members and community that drives it. In other words you can see ours now show us yours.


Scaff
 
Never have I seen such a thing here on the planet before. *Grabs popcorn*.

When alot of moderators are in here, you know somethings up, just sayin'.
 
I've heard someone is attacking cheerleaders around this place, may I join the party? :dopey:
 
I've heard someone is attacking cheerleaders around this place, may I join the party? :dopey:

I just wish this place had cheerleader....hot, sexy cheerleader :lol:.
 
I really feel for limited communities like this when things like this happen. In the end it comes down to how you're able to adjust and moderate through it. The closing of the thread in question tells me the moderation staff didn't have the time nor the patience to do their job.

Limited? Or another words, not a gigantic mish-mash of discussions. Nobody needs another totally open, no-limit forum with no defined pattern of discussion; all of those forums died years ago, or are totally limited to the tiny handful of users that inhabit it, many to the point where the conversation is meaningless and clannish to anybody else who wishes to join it.

There's so much whining and banter about the GT games that it's patently ridiculous by now. Half of the discussions in there are total garbage with no meaning and no solid information; we are in fact, limited by what is truly leaked/reported by reputable sources. In fact, after almost nine years on this forum, I'm still not terribly sure why people want to know every bleeding detail about a game before they play it. Where's the fun in that? Sure, there's going to be a few gaming junkies that aren't racing or Gran Turismo-die-hards that will be on the fence about purchasing a copy of it. Some of you wouldn't know what "fun" is because you've argued and trampled all over it and wept tears and made your fingers sore over trying to make fun things even more fun, or over-justifying the experience. Some of you are really bent out of shape about the most micromanaged of details that it makes me sick to my stomach thinking that there's so many of you that waste valuable time bitching about it and not out there in the real world, with real air and fuel and love and sounds and crash damage doing something with your ever-shortening and soon-to-be meaningless lives.

We have many other sections in this forum that are not about GT that keep most members coming back, so I hope you enjoy your stay at GTPlanet in between real life.
 
I am firmly against any form of editing posts, deleting posts, and above all others the closing of threads.

Do you even know how to use and administrate phpBB, vBulletin, and/or Invision?! So if I put up a message board, you posted a thread, and then I edited it just to make you say "I'm happy to be here", would you still be against that?!
 
I am firmly against any form of editing posts, deleting posts, and above all others the closing of threads. As forum moderators we're given tools to get the job. All to many forums neglect the tools at hand...

I find this part the funniest of all of your posts. I can only imagine what a jumbled mess a forum run that way must look like, since users could post essentially anything and not have to worry about it being taken down or edited.

Since I spend a fair amount of time over in the GT5 section, I've looked through all of the big "debate" topics. That thread invited the done-to-death "Flopza vs Grand Turdismo" junk that already seeps into a lot of other threads. Comparing features between the games on a case-by-case basis is one thing, but every "complaint" in that thread has another thread dedicated specifically to that issue. The Standard vs Premium thread takes care of the differences between the two tiers, there's a thread about livery editors, and there's a thread about body mods/customization. The closed thread was just a jumble of those, all of which have already toed the line when they dissolve into personal attacks and/or cheerleading. We don't need a duplicate thread around here; if you feel you had comments of value to add to the discussion, why not add them into threads that already exist?

Unable to express their unhappiness? I'm disappointed with a couple of leaked bits of news about the game I'll own next week, and even I'll say there's already too much bitterness over in that section. From both the disappointed fans, and the fans disappointed with the disappointed fans. Your free-for-all ideas on moderation can't pre-emptively stop members from posting useless doubles or outdated information. Moderators can only do so much proactively; they can't think for individual users, and considering the size of the site, I'd say it's pretty impressive the small amount of crap that does make it through in the first place. I need only go to the official PlayStation boards to see how it can all be handled poorly. The rest of moderation, as far as I can tell anyways, needs to be done reactively. It's the nature of the system.

A quick Google didn't find anything tied to your PSN account name, or the other usernames you've used in relation to it, in any level of moderation on a site. Though I can't be too surprised, since after talking about your apparent previous experience, after being asked numerous times for an example you have yet to give one.
 
Just to counter this thread and follow my own remarks.

I believe I understand the point of the creator as follows:
1) there should be free speech on the internet
2) moderators are there to guide people, not to change the things they wrote
3) moderators are there to guide people, not to shut them up by closing a thread

I believe that most people agree with the points above, also the moderators of this forum. Why do people love this forum:

1) This forum is not the internet, it is a select bit that is moderated to try to give valuable information with a high focus on racing simulators and especially the Gran Turismo series.
2) This forum gathers a community that is there to get the latest news and discussions on the topics they love.
3) This forum has chosen to work in English, written in a way that translators can be used for other language users that want to google translate something to be able to get to the info.

So in the end:
1) You need to limit the amount of nonsense to make certain people still find the value. This is subjective, we might not agree with the choices of the moderators, but it is their job.
2) You need to have a AUP and apply it, even if this means removing things that are not in line.
3) You need to tell people to shut up, if they are not adding to the value you are aiming for.

The last three points are not the most pleasant, I believe also not for the moderators, but they are needed.
 
I'm not if the post violates the aup, there are standards here.



I'm not sure what to think about this one, I see your point.



I'm for closing goofie threads, sure it's easy enough not to click on it and better off not to read it, but others do and it reflects on gtp as a whole.



I don't think so.



Are you sure?



Wrong, they are doing there job.



He owns the site, no one is telling you to stay here. If you don't like how it is run simply frequent another site. This is not a democracy in any form.

I would say you should calm down mate, you are bordering on insulting a fellow member who has the right to express his views and you are wrong, this is a democracy, because the vast majority of members conduct themselves properly on this forum by respecting everyones opinions just like in the free world of democratic rights.
 
I would say you should calm down mate, you are bordering on insulting a fellow member who has the right to express his views and you are wrong, this is a democracy, because the vast majority of members conduct themselves properly on this forum by respecting everyones opinions just like in the free world of democratic rights.

This isn't a democracy, it's a privately ran forum(a dictatorship if you really want to apply a government title to it).

I also didn't see anything that would be considered insulting in arora's post.
 
I would say you should calm down mate, you are bordering on insulting a fellow member who has the right to express his views

With the sheer number of moderators in this thread, do you not think that this would have been brought up with the member if it were against the rules?

and you are wrong, this is a democracy

Let me know how you'd go about voting to change the site owner.

This site is not a democracy - no site is. The site owner sets the rules, everybody sticks by them and we enforce them where they don't. You have no more "democratic rights" than that which Jordan - and by extension, the staff - grants you.
 
With the sheer number of moderators in this thread, do you not think that this would have been brought up with the member if it were against the rules?



Let me know how you'd go about voting to change the site owner.

This site is not a democracy - no site is. The site owner sets the rules, everybody sticks by them and we enforce them where they don't. You have no more "democratic rights" than that which Jordan - and by extension, the staff - grants you.

Now before anyone goes "it's unfair we aren't a Democracy, first of all, GTPlanet is an internet site. It doesn't need a government system. Waah.
Second off, has GTP's apparent "single leader" system that bad? I have to say, if we had mindless idiots who had to finalize Jordan's ideas, well, the site would flop. There is nothing wrong with this "government." I might be biased (I'm a Communistic person....) but if the site isn't "tyrannically" ruled, then what sense does it make to change a fine working system?

Limited? Or another words, not a gigantic mish-mash of discussions. Nobody needs another totally open, no-limit forum with no defined pattern of discussion; all of those forums died years ago, or are totally limited to the tiny handful of users that inhabit it, many to the point where the conversation is meaningless and clannish to anybody else who wishes to join it.

There's so much whining and banter about the GT games that it's patently ridiculous by now. Half of the discussions in there are total garbage with no meaning and no solid information; we are in fact, limited by what is truly leaked/reported by reputable sources. In fact, after almost nine years on this forum, I'm still not terribly sure why people want to know every bleeding detail about a game before they play it. Where's the fun in that? Sure, there's going to be a few gaming junkies that aren't racing or Gran Turismo-die-hards that will be on the fence about purchasing a copy of it. Some of you wouldn't know what "fun" is because you've argued and trampled all over it and wept tears and made your fingers sore over trying to make fun things even more fun, or over-justifying the experience. Some of you are really bent out of shape about the most micromanaged of details that it makes me sick to my stomach thinking that there's so many of you that waste valuable time bitching about it and not out there in the real world, with real air and fuel and love and sounds and crash damage doing something with your ever-shortening and soon-to-be meaningless lives.

Wow. Everything I wish I could've said. It honestly disturbs me (and others) to see all these people file and scratch for every piece of tiny, worthless information. In fact, I wish we had no track or car list, it's stupid that people have to debate over that mindless stuff because they have no minds. I don't know what compels people to learn it all, I would have loved if everyone would've kept there mouths shut, and let the game come to me. That's why I loved GT4 so much. I didn't have a site to drool over and scan like an eagle for endless damn hours and bitch at other because they don't want to think like you, contradicting the fact that most of them, barely have mind to think with! The nonsensical crap that sits in there is simply put, blasphemy. There's such like "Veyron should've been Premium" or "GT5 Car Wishlist" that make no god damned sense because whatever they say, you AREN'T GOING TO CHANGE THE GAME. WHATEVER THEY SAY DOESN'T MATTER. The noobs can talk and talk like they do, like mindless little birds, but it isn't getting anyone anywhere! God. Just buy the damn game, play the damn game, and move on with your lives, INSTEAD OF SPENDING YOUR FREE TIME DOING NOTHING GREAT. YEAH, I'M FIRED UP NOW.

And 2JZ, I'd love to see what site you moderated. Because it won't be as good as GTPlanet.

Phew...been waiting for that one for a long time.
 
Just have to say that "INTERLUDES" is the worst admin on the site. He never gets 2 sides to the story and just jumps the gun. Ive seen a few posts now giving him FEEDBACK and he deletes them all instead of trying to resolve the issue like a good admin he just ignores the pms.
 
Just have to say that "INTERLUDES" is the worst admin on the site. He never gets 2 sides to the story and just jumps the gun. Ive seen a few posts now giving him FEEDBACK and he deletes them all instead of trying to resolve the issue like a good admin he just ignores the pms.

I'm sure you'll get the attention you seek now.
 
The site feedback is to give or ask questions about the site...not to pick or make comment about moderators...use your PM's if you have a problem with someone.
That is the best way to go about your topic.
 
THE ATTENTION I SEEK??? ITS THE "SITE FEEDBACK" PART OF THE FORUM SO GO BACK UNDER THAT ROCK YOU CRAWLED FROM 👎

Sure it's not the "Insult other members" forum?

Has anyone else noticed a trend recently of members being much more argumentative, rude and whiny? What is going on at GTP at the moment?

Rather than just complaining that someone is a bad mod, why not give some examples of where he might have gone wrong or something that you may disagree with? Even better, why not message one of the admins if you feel really strongly about it? Beleive it or not they do listen and take feedback on their actions very seriously.
 
Sure it's not the "Insult other members" forum?

Has anyone else noticed a trend recently of members being much more argumentative, rude and whiny? What is going on at GTP at the moment?

Rather than just complaining that someone is a bad mod, why not give some examples of where he might have gone wrong or something that you may disagree with? Even better, why not message one of the admins if you feel really strongly about it? Beleive it or not they do listen and take feedback on their actions very seriously.

Already pmd an admin. where in that above post did i offend him?
 
THE ATTENTION I SEEK??? ITS THE "SITE FEEDBACK" PART OF THE FORUM SO GO BACK UNDER THAT ROCK YOU CRAWLED FROM 👎

As I've said before, I'm sure you'll get the attention you seek now. :rolleyes:

Just a question, is your impressive use of caps lock supposed to intimidate me in any way at all?
 
It's the blatant disrespect that Mods get lately for doing their job. Without them, the site would be an apocalypse. Also saying people should crawl back under their rock isn't a compliment.
 
It's weird how some members feel that Mods are working with them, while others feel they are working against them, I wonder what causes that?
 
It's weird how some members feel that Mods are working with them, while others feel they are working against them, I wonder what causes that?

Different personalities, some people just get along with certain types of people better then others. Just because someone is a mod doesn't mean you are going to like them, and sometimes people voice that dislike in the wrong way and it gets out of hand.
 
It's weird how some members feel that Mods are working with them, while others feel they are working against them, I wonder what causes that?

A forum is like a society so you'll always have all kinds of persons here. And that is true for members as well as for mods.
 
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