Monza, Italian Grand Prix 2007

[Sureboss]

They always do this.

Ferrari dominate one session, McLaren the next.

There's your cheating, Max!

 

[Danny]

You mean this bag?

When is a handbag not a handbag?

When it's a manbag.


Edit: Oh and by the way Liuzzi will in fact, win it all.

 

[Pupik]

You mean this bag?

He is carrying the Sandbag of Shame that seems to weigh down every STR driver.

 

[Lee]

👎

What's with you? It seems like in every race you want Kimi to DNF. To me it is very annoying and borderline flamebait and should be prohibited like it is to wish for a driver to crash.

You would probably just want every other driver to DNF and BMW to win every race by default, or maybe you could just go watch Formula BMW.

Oh god here we go again. Look I don't wish Kimi to get injured or anything, I just don't like seeing him win. As for your BMW comment, wouldn't you wish to see Kimi win every race and see everyone else DNF?

Everyone knows I'm not the biggest fan of Kimi, just get over it.

 

[peterjford]

Oh god here we go again. Look I don't wish Kimi to get injured or anything, I just don't like seeing him win. As for your BMW comment, wouldn't you wish to see Kimi win every race and see everyone else DNF?

Everyone knows I'm not the biggest fan of Kimi, just get over it.

I am a bit of a Kimi fan. I would rather see him win, by a few hundredths of a second, after battling for the entire race. I would really love a race where everyone finished... even better, if everyone finished on the same lap. Hell, if that happened I wouldn't care who won. If Kimi won because everyone else DNF I would not be happy. That would be such hollow victory.

The same could be said if Ferrari win the constructors championship because of the spy scandal. If McLaren did cheat, then the should not win. But if Ferrari wins because McLaren looses its points, did Ferrari really win on its own merits? Did the spying really help McLaren? Would McLaren have won anyway? Those kinds of questions don't sit well with someone who is a fan of F1, or racing, or competition in general.

 

[peterjford]

Practice Session 2
Well, well what do we have here? Both McLaren and Ferrari fastest in each session? Its going down to the wire during raceday. I wonder who would qualify fastest tomorrow? (probably Massa) And for all the Liuzzites can only hope. He is not a miracle worker and driving a Toro Rosso doesn't help either Only managed 20th......

Hey, Liuzzi went up 2 places in one day. At this rate he should be 2nd in Belgium and then win the rest of the races. Unless of course he wraps around and ends up in last at Japan.

 

[Muzaffar]

Hey, Liuzzi went up 2 places in one day. At this rate he should be 2nd in Belgium and then win the rest of the races. Unless of course he wraps around and ends up in last at Japan.

Of course if he didn't crash crash in Canada he would be still in the team next year would he? I mean Liuzzi is a talented driver, but most of the misfortunes has nobody to blame but himself. If he was in RBR it would have been a totally different story altogether.....

And stop dreaming, we all know how pathetic Toro Rosso are. They can't even finish a race without suffering an engine failure or some mishaps....

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

The same could be said if Ferrari win the constructors championship because of the spy scandal. If McLaren did cheat, then the should not win. But if Ferrari wins because McLaren looses its points, did Ferrari really win on its own merits? Did the spying really help McLaren? Would McLaren have won anyway? Those kinds of questions don't sit well with someone who is a fan of F1, or racing, or competition in general.

That's my feeling as well.

Considering all that has happened, if McLaren wins either or both championships there will always be an asterisk next to their names and the whole 2007 season. It's a shame as I've always wanted McLaren to do well, and Hamilton made me a true believer, but it's very hard to ignore not only all the speculation, but the actual evidence that has already been discovered showing McLaren's hands are far from clean.

After this year, I personally hope BMW whoops every body in 2008.

 

[Lee]

Of course if he didn't crash crash in Canada he would be still in the team next year would he? I mean Liuzzi is a talented driver, but most of the misfortunes has nobody to blame but himself.

I think that's a bit unfair, the Toro Rosso is a god awful car this season, as useful as a shedload of 🤬. Also both Tonio Liuzzi and Scott Speed have been very poorly managed by Gerhard Berger and Franz Tost. Anyway back to my case for Liuzzi.

If we look at the results both Liuzzi and Speed whilst they were together..

Liuzzi: 14-17-Ret-Ret-Ret-Ret-17*-Ret-16*-Ret
Speed: Ret-14-Ret-Ret-9-Ret-13-Ret-Ret-Ret

[I]*Driver retired but still classified[/I]

Thats 15 times they have not completed a race distance in 20 races, hardly reliable, but lets see the reasons why they were caused:

Australia: Speed retired with a puncture.
Malaysia: Both drivers finished.
Bahrain: Liuzzi retired with a hydrulic failure, Speed retired after a collision with Button, caused by another driver.
Spain: Liuzzi retired with a hydrulic failure, Speed retired after a tyre failure.
Monaco: Liuzzi retired after crashing out with damage due to an earlier collision.
Canada: Liuzzi retired after a crashing out due to a driver error.
USA: Liuzzi was classified but retired with a mechanical failure.
France: Liuzzi retired due to collision with Davidson, Speed retired with a gearbox failure.
Britain: Liuzzi was classified but only completed 53 laps due to a gearbox failure, Speed retired after a collision with Wurz.
Europe: Liuzzi retired after spinning off due to a suspension failure and poor conditions, Speed retired just before spinning off due to poor conditions.

So with Tonio retiring only once by a driver error at Canada, I really can't see how you can say he only has himself to blame, the car has failed on him 5 times this season and has been hit by another car 2 times. To further my point about STR's reliability, Speed pulled up 4 times due to problems with the car, so 9 out of those 15 retirements were due to mechanical.

Granted Speed has had the measure of Tonio but thats for another aguement, I firmly believe Tonio deserves a shot in a car that wont fall apart on him, maybe then we can find out how truly good he is.

EDIT: I got all the information from Wikipedia.

 

[Metar]

He does have only himself and his luck to blame for landing him the STR...

Liuzzi is talented, he's got speed when he needs it. Take Canada - last pitstop, he's 5th, some in front didn't pit yet. Obviously good chances, but he overpushes it. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have been 5th, even in a safety-car loaded race like this. But, Canada was a race with lots of bad luck for some - Davidson's beaver, Fisi and Massa's stupid mistake, and the double crashes by Spyker.

I believe he has what it takes to score points, but not in a car as unreliable and slow as the STR. Even Spyker is out-doing them now... In the earlier days, a backmarker could hope for luck because the fast teams were unreliable as well. Nowadays, they aren't - McLaren didn't get a single failure, and the other teams are usually pretty reliable, too, at least more than STR, Spyker and the likes - so they can only hope for bizarre safety-car races and luck with the tyres (Sato @ Canada), or extra stops by rivals (Sato @ Spain). When you have the most unreliable car on the grid, which is also slowest (or 2nd-slowest), you can't hope that others will be less lucky. Cars are, in general, very reliable this season, I think.

I'm a Liuzzite, but I've lost hope with that car. Hopefully he can get Karthikeyan's test-seat at Williams when the latter moves to Team Orange-India.


Also, guys, on another subject. McLaren's front wing-bridge.

It's been removed for Monza, probably because of the low-downforce requirements. Or rather, low-drag.

Yet Williams decided it's a good time to make their own:

While RBR decided their's goes off too for Monza:

Could anyone explain why Williams uses that thingy while McLaren themselves, inventors and biggest profiteers from the bridge, opted not to use it?

 

[Blake]

Clearly Williams feel that the increase in downforce generated by the bridge-wing outweighs the negative impact of the increase in drag.

 

[Metar]

Obviously, yes. They're also among the slowest in the speed traps:

Pos  	No  	Driver  		Time of Day  	Speed
1 	10 	Robert Kubica 		15:17:53 	349.6
2 	9 	Nick Heidfeld 		14:54:16 	349.4
3 	1 	Fernando Alonso 	14:07:00 	348.9
4 	2 	Lewis Hamilton	 	15:25:48 	348.7
5 	5 	Felipe Massa 		14:46:52 	346.1
6 	6 	Kimi Räikkönen 		15:31:26 	346.1
7 	12 	Jarno Trulli 		15:15:17 	345.4
8 	15 	Mark Webber 		15:15:13 	345.0
9 	14 	David Coulthard 	14:13:21 	344.8
10 	11 	Ralf Schumacher 	14:22:57 	344.0
11 	19 	Sebastian Vettel 	15:28:22 	343.2
12 	3 	Giancarlo Fisichella 	14:22:04 	343.1
13 	18 	Vitantonio Liuzzi 	14:58:23 	343.1
14 	4 	Heikki Kovalainen 	14:04:13 	342.7
15 	20 	Adrian Sutil 		15:26:58 	342.0
16 	21 	Sakon Yamamoto 		15:27:11 	341.2
17 	16 	Nico Rosberg 		14:06:50 	339.8
18 	17 	Alexander Wurz 		14:07:11 	339.6
19 	8 	Rubens Barrichello 	14:28:34 	339.5
20 	23 	Anthony Davidson 	14:32:11 	338.8
21 	22 	Takuma Sato 		14:52:08 	338.5
22 	7 	Jenson Button 		15:01:59 	337.0

Meaning, they're obviously going for a high-downforce setup. 10 Km/h doesn't go by the leg, yet their times are near the top.


Sunday Practice:

Raikkonen crashes. This article says he's unhurt:
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/9/6731.html

 

[Blake]

Gah, will have to use the spare car for qualifying and race.

The only word I’ve heard so far is that it may have been suspension failure, which is the obvious conclusion to jump to. Especially with the high curbs at the second chicane.

 

[Metar]

Very probably option, though Lauda and Heidfeld reckoned it might've been a rear brake locking, too.

 

[Alex.]

I'll follow Bee and tip R.Kyoobitzer to do well

 

[MustangSVT]

This Liuzzi guy is quite a character. They were showing him on Inside Grand Prix and quote "When in Italy, Mama Liuzzi worries about little Tonio". I just about fell down laughing. And then it showed how Scott Speed and Liuzzi had some good times with the nightlife and all and how Liuzzi was discussing something with 2 attractive girls. What a guy.

However I do miss Scott Speed. He was the "true" underdog, similar to that movie that recently came out. 👍

 

[Alex.]

I just saw Raikkonen's crash

nearly took out the marshalls

 

[Metar]

Monza Qualifying:

Pos  	No  	Driver  		Team  			Q1		Q2		Q3	
1 	1 	Fernando Alonso 	McLaren-Mercedes 	1:21.718	1:21.356	1:21.997 	
2 	2 	Lewis Hamilton 		McLaren-Mercedes 	1:21.956	1:21.746	1:22.034 	
3 	5 	Felipe Massa 		Ferrari 		1:22.309	1:21.993	1:22.549 	
4 	9 	Nick Heidfeld 		BMW 			1:23.107	1:22.466	1:23.174 	
5 	6 	Kimi Räikkönen 		Ferrari 		1:22.673	1:22.369	1:23.183 	
6 	10 	Robert Kubica 		BMW 			1:23.088	1:22.400	1:23.446 	
7 	4 	Heikki Kovalainen 	Renault 		1:23.505	1:23.134	1:24.102 	
8 	16 	Nico Rosberg 		Williams-Toyota 	1:23.333	1:22.748	1:24.382 	
9 	12 	Jarno Trulli 		Toyota 			1:23.724	1:23.107	1:24.555 	
10 	7 	Jenson Button	 	Honda 			1:23.639	1:23.021	1:25.165 	
11 	15 	Mark Webber 		Red Bull-Renault 	1:23.575	1:23.166		
12 	8 	Rubens Barrichello 	Honda 			1:23.474	1:23.176		
13 	17 	Alexander Wurz 		Williams-Toyota 	1:23.739	1:23.209		
14 	23 	Anthony Davidson 	Super Aguri-Honda 	1:23.646	1:23.274		
15 	3 	Giancarlo Fisichella 	Renault 		1:23.559	1:23.325		
16 	19 	Sebastian Vettel 	STR-Ferrari 		1:23.578	1:23.351		
17 	22 	Takuma Sato 		Super Aguri-Honda 	1:23.749			
18 	11 	Ralf Schumacher 	Toyota 			1:23.787			
19 	18 	Vitantonio Liuzzi 	STR-Ferrari 		1:23.886			
20 	14 	David Coulthard 	Red Bull-Renault 	1:24.019			
21 	20 	Adrian Sutil 		Spyker-Ferrari 		1:24.699			
22 	21 	Sakon Yamamoto 		Spyker-Ferrari 		1:25.084

Poor Sato, no Q2 because of a missing 0.01s of a second. Yamamoto was severely hampered by a Red Bull, might see a punishment come out of that one...

 

[Blake]

I like that Vedttel was 0.3 off the top 10… Other than that a pretty disappointing session. Knew Alonso would be on pole since this mornings session.

 

[darkfinal]

Next caption game picture, anyone?

 

[m7ammed]

I really hope BMWs gets a poduim 2moro , its going to be there best chance

 

[Muzaffar]

That was really bad qualifying session for Ferrari. (just watched it. It god delayed ) Massa got 3rd and Nick got 4th over Kimi. The McLaren's are undeniably fast at Monza, where people are expecting Ferrari to perform well here. The 1st corner lock up seems to be quite weird though. I only see Sakon Yamamoto (who barely got to control his car) and David Coulthard lock up and spun there. Its a day to enjoy for McLaren, and Alonso couldn't even care less about the scandal....

 

[dkstz]

Poor Sato, no Q2 because of a missing 0.01s of a second. Yamamoto was severely hampered by a Red Bull, might see a punishment come out of that one...

Do you mean like last year when Alonso hampered Massa's qualifying? Well, for some reason Spyker doesn't seem to have so much influence like Ferrari ... they don't have Montezemolo and they aren't in the chase at the constructors championship so FIA would help them, in order to spice things up a little bit. 💡
Just wondering, but no punishment in this case I guess...

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I loved the commentary by Speed.

(After Barichello went out in front of Fisichella)

"This could be something the FIA might want to review"
"Yeah, he could've waited."
"But he learned from the best."

Then, when they were holding Hamilton

"They're holding Hamilton in the pits for that perfect release point."
"Didn't Hamilton in Hungary say they never do that?"

I also thought the readout of the positions to Alonso was funny.



On another note, did anyone else notice how Alonso's hair has grown back through the season?

 

[Venari]

"Well, Sid told me I needed to chill out, and Bernie had just rolled up. Got a llight?"

 

[GT4 genius]

Kimi looks like he is on a 1 stop strategy, this is looking like a good race!

 

[Muzaffar]

Man that was one exciting race! (completely the opposite of Istanbul) There was a lot of overtaking in the race. The best being Lewis Hamilton overtaking and outbraking Kimi Raikonnen at the first corner. Just brilliant!!! *goes crazy* I think McLaren really deserved to win here. They dominated testing, practice, qualifying and to win the race 1-2 to boot! Too bad the Ferrari had a hard time at Monza (with Massa retiring on lap 10) and "Chubby" Kimi barely bringing back the Ferrari in 3rd, almost 20 secs behind.....

Well if this is some coincidence, Alonso got his second pole here in Monza (his first in Monaco minus the pole in Hungary) and he leads the race from start to finish and finish 1-2 with Ferrari far behind. Weird huh?

Well it's going to be even tighter now that the gap between 1st to 2nd in the champonship is 3 points. Anything can happen in the last few races. We don't even know what is the fate of McLaren would be after the "Stepneygate" case. Well whatever it is, formula one is getting more exciting by the races leading to the end with a result which was very unexpected at the beginning of the season. Cheers to that!

 

[Appie]

Well, Fernando one it nice and easy and the of Lewis on Kimi was brilliant:tup:

 

[Roo]

Man that was one exciting race! (completely the opposite of Istanbul) There was a lot of overtaking in the race.

You must've been watching a different race to me then, because after the first lap, I can only remember 3 on-track overtaking manoeuvers: Rosberg on Button, Kubica on Rosberg and Hamilton on Raikkonen. Unless 3 counts as a lot - which in modern day F1 I could easily grant you

Wondering whether Kimi could pip either McLaren was vaguely interesting, but I found it to be a fairly dull race. No-one made more than 3 positions on their starting slot, and for most drivers, one of those was Massa retiring.

Good to see Button doubling his points tally.

Let's hope Spa is a bit more exciting - but with lots of high-speed corners, cars closely following one another just ain't gonna happen. Yay.

 

[Muzaffar]

You must've been watching a different race to me then, because after the first lap, I can only remember 3 on-track overtaking manoeuvers: Rosberg on Button, Kubica on Rosberg and Hamilton on Raikkonen. Unless 3 counts as a lot - which in modern day F1 I could easily grant you

Wondering whether Kimi could pip either McLaren was vaguely interesting, but I found it to be a fairly dull race. No-one made more than 3 positions on their starting slot, and for most drivers, one of those was Massa retiring.

Good to see Button doubling his points tally.

Let's hope Spa is a bit more exciting - but with lots of high-speed corners, cars closely following one another just ain't gonna happen. Yay.

Lol, must have been a different coverage for the race. (i got star sports as the F1 coverage) like there's lots of battle on that first few laps. (can't remember though but i think it was a battle from 6th to 11th which involves Kovalainen, Rosberg, Button, and some other guys. Oh yeah, as well as the battle between Davidson, Fisichella and Trulli was good as well)

Yeah, Button really deserved it. I mean for a person like him to only score 2 points this season i better hope Honda improves next year or Button would move to Super Aguri