Mosley comes up with radical engine plan

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We can’t answer that, we don’t know how much fuel they have to play with. I imagine it would be kept low enough so that HP numbers were kept under control.
 
Maybe we'll see super-compact configured W-format engines.
 
scoobyonline200
So if this plan goes into effect, what sort of HP numbers would come out? would there be the 1000HP numbers of the 80's during the turbos...or 900HP numbers of last season? And what types of engine's have been used in F1???
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Pretty close to everything you can think of. Inline-4s, V6s, V8s, V10s, V12s, V16s, etc, etc, etc, etc. The HP numbers would all depend on amount of fuel available and the amount of displacement allowed. Though I doubt we ever see the 1000+HP numbers of the turbo monsters of the 80s.

Omnis
Maybe we'll see super-compact configured W-format engines.
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W-engine format engines are so freakin' confusing to look at. They just look odd, not too mention very complicated looking at the same time. But you do make a good point in that they are more compact.
 
Flat engines don't package as efficiently as Vs. There's a narrow range of useable V-angles for racing engines, and narrow Vs seem a bit better, because they allow you to keep the heaviest part of the engine (the crank) as low as possible.

Diesels = heavy. Doubt we'll be seeing them just yet.

If you've got an anything goes engine rule, and limited fuel, I'm putting my bets on low to medium displacement V-engines (under 3 liters, 2-2.5 liters may be a possiblity) with turbocharging. That'll allow you to produce in excess of 1000 hp for overtaking instances, then turn down the boost to coast and save gas. And running low displacement with less cylinders would allow you to put in sturdier parts to meet the three race engine life-cycle, while the turbo would allow you to make big numbers without running extreme engine speeds. I bet a 3-liter turbo could last five or six races if built right.

There would be a lot of coasting, but a lot of action, and tight racing in instances where some people are running a lot of boost to catch up with the pole-sitter.
 
Gearing Technology.
If the main design brief is to extract the speed from the fuel then the way to manage that would be to use big power & big torque in weight taut chassies i.e supremely tuned/tunable gearsets to make use of pull from lower rev grunt, getting to maximal ratios for straightaways w/ speed & efficiency.

They'll need the tranny trick.
 
Sounds like a great idea, but it'll lead to a complete re-design of the cars to accomodate larger fuel tanks than they have now as well as the obvious engine re-designs. Even the biggest tanks they fit in current cars only get them half a race and back when no refuelling was allowed in the GP they'd run with IIRC 220 litres maximum. The total weight of car at the start of the race is going to be huge (could result in more dangerous accidents/spectator deaths due to young/inexperienced drivers misjudging conditions (I'm thinking specifically of Gilles Villeneuve at Fuji)). Would make for exciting racing not only because of the (possible) power difference between cars but also because of the change in pace as the fuel burns off (and the cars lose 150 kilos+ of weight near the end of the race). Could also lead to drivers running out of fuel after pushing early in the race (especially if turbo boost "overtake" buttons are employed)
 
Actually, Max never said anything about one tank... just "a limited amount". Today's cars already coast in areas to conserve fuel, because too many pitstops for gas can lose the race. So the "limited fuel" idea doesn't change things very much at all.

But it would make it difficult to switch to gas turbines or rotaries, which aren't as efficient as piston engines, though a gas turbine engine might be the most durable... could it be? A diesel could work well under those rules, but the weight vs. horses issue is one that's of more relevance in F1 than at LeMans, as F1 cars have to turn more corners than LeMans cars.
 
niky
Actually, Max never said anything about one tank... just "a limited amount". Today's cars already coast in areas to conserve fuel, because too many pitstops for gas can lose the race. So the "limited fuel" idea doesn't change things very much at all.
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Ah, I misread this as "you start with enough fuel to finish the race and can't pit". :dunce:
 
amp88
Ah, I misread this as "you start with enough fuel to finish the race and can't pit". :dunce:
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:lol: Bet that would be interesting. And, as you pointed out... dangerous.
 
I agree that the constant rule changes are getting ridiculous, but I also agree that reintroducing variety to the engine configurations would be one of the best moves the sport could possibly make. (After listening to the Ferrari onboards on F1 Decade for the past two seasons I can only hope that they would go back to a V12. :drool: )
 
imagine the sounds at an F1 race if multi engine's were run...such as V12's, V8's, V10's, and maybe even V6's....although I wouldnt like much the V6's. Sort of what it used to sound like no??
 
yea, as it's been pointed out earlier, letting teams have a maximum amount of fuel isn't a new concept. it was done in the turbo era, and anyway, something will have to be done about the consumption of F1 cars anyway.

F1racing.net
Formula One could be banned if an oil crisis grips the world, according to Max Mosley.
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full story

so yea, definately don't want that.





rock. :indiff:
 
I agree. Its not F1s responsibility to ensure that every manufacturer in the world is responsible enough to make more fuel efficient vehicles.
 
There is way too much money tied up in F1 for a worldwide ban. And if you ban Formula One, you have to ban all other motorsports—the market is way to big for that. At least 2.5 billion dollars are invested into F1 each year, you can’t just ‘ban’ that sort of industry. F1 is so much more than a sport, nowadays.

F1 will be forced, just like the rest of the world, into making more fuel efficient engines. When there is not enough oil left, the entire world will be forced onto other alternatives because prices will be way too high.

I suspect Formula One will be one of the pioneers in researchings and developing alternative energy sources. Hell, if it wasn’t banned, we’d have had hybrid engines in F1 for decades, now.
 
Apparently I've been watching F1 longer than some of you. Entirely possible, as I've been a fan since Jim Clark and Graham Hill drove for Lotus.

Flat-12s were stressed members in Ferraris and Brabhams in the 70's, before the turbo era relegated everone to V6 or L4 engines since they were only 1.5 liters. Flat engines weren't given up for packaging or C/G, they were given up for ground effects, the other big development of the turbo era. Flat-engined cars had very low rear bodywork, giving a clean air path to the rear wing, but no room for under-body venturis. Today's flat-bottomed cars might return to this configuration.

The current V10s (up to last year) weren't chosen because they package better, necessarily, as some teams would still run a V-12 to get that little extra mmmph of power or a V8 to get even smaller packaging; the V10s were mandated by the rules, first at 3.5 liters, then down to 3. One of the engine rules also limits materials because very exotic, expensive, and potentially toxic alloys were being used.

I have never liked fuel limitations. Granted, Mosley didn't suggest you had to start with enough fuel to finish, i.e. no pitting for fuel, he only said you should only use so much during the race, but that still makes an economy run out of the racing, rather than racing.

I like the idea of free engine rules, even if it's limited to gasoline engines (meaning no diesels or turbines). That was part of the excitement of the series before the '90s, keeping up with engine technologies in the cars: V-8, V-12, flat-12, turbo V6 or L4, and if you go back far enough (the early 60s 1.5-liter NA formula) you even had a flat-8 and a laterally-mounted V-12!

Also keep in mind that Mosley is trying to save F1 from the defection of the many manufacturers who have yet to sign on to stay after the current Concorde expires. If they're leaving to form their own series, they're unhappy with how things are presently. If you want to entice them to stay, you HAVE to make some changes somewhere. While recent rules changes for the cars have been pretty much little aero adjustments, this year's engine rule, etc., the big farce to me has been the experimental nature of trying to find a qualifying setup. Maybe this year's "elimination rounds" will make life more exciting. I've always despised the single-car qualifying in whatever guise.
 

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