Motorsports unfulfilled talents

[nitrorocks]

Who do you think is or was an unfulfilled talent in Motorsports and why?

I'm thinking Jaques Villenueve. Well that's explainable.
Adam Petty. He was doing well in is NASCAR Busch Series after a few starts (now NASCAR Nationwide Series).
And I hear Ivan Capelli was, but why?

 

[PeterJB]

I'd say Gilles Villeneuve, because he died before he could win (hopefully several) championships.

 

[Liquid]

Who do you think is or was an unfulfilled talent in Motorsports and why?

I'm thinking Jaques Villenueve. Well that's explainable.

Winning Indy and F1 doesn't really qualify as unfufilled. Villeneuve simply struggled to do anything competative after leaving Williams. (I personally think he did well in 1998 all things considered.)

From the few motorsports I watch religiously, I'd argue for Jean Alesi, Gilles Villeneuve, Jochen Rindt, Paul Radisich, Anthony Reid, Steve Soper and Stirling Moss. Oh, and Francois Cevert.

I'll come back with reasons later.

 

[MatskiMonk]

All those that fell by the wayside who, despite the talent, didn't have the dollar... there are probably thousands!

 

[astrosdude91]

I think currently, my pick would be Nico Rosberg. Great talent. But he still hasn't had that first win.

 

[Bopop4]

Perry McCarthy
But the big one is Tommy Byrne.
If you read his book you would know why, he could beat Senna and when he won a test for McLaren, (Ron didn't like him) they put a throttle stop on his car and he was still the fastest driver at the test.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Felipe Massa - almost was world champion. The next season he took a spring to the head.

 

[nitrorocks]

Perry McCarthy
But the big one is Tommy Byrne.
If you read his book you would know why, he could beat Senna and when he won a test for McLaren, (Ron didn't like him) they put a throttle stop on his car and he was still the fastest driver at the test.

They did? That's horrible. If he drivers fast, then why wouldnt you want him to drive for your team?

 

[F1 fan]

And I hear Ivan Capelli was, but why?

Ivan Capelli did well for smaller teams. He almost pulled off a win in the Leyton House. Then, he got a dream move to Ferrari. Unfortunately, he found the atmosphere and politics in the Scuderia not to his liking. It really affected his mindset, and therefore his performance. After being sacked by the team, he did a short stint at Jordan (two races) but found that his time at Ferrari affected his confidence. So he called a day on his F1 career.

Jochen Rindt,

I wouldn't necessarily call Jochen an "unfulfilled talent". He promised his wife that he would retire if he won the world championship so it's a real shame that he even stepped in the car at Monza.

They did? That's horrible. If he drivers fast, then why wouldnt you want him to drive for your team?

Tommy is a bit of a character. I'm not sure of the validity of some of his claims.

Edit:

As for unfulfilled talents, I'm going to nominate Jan Magnussen. An absolute star in F3, Magnussen got to F1 and performed terribly.

 

[nitrorocks]

Ivan Capelli did well for smaller teams. He almost pulled off a win in the Leyton House. Then, he got a dream move to Ferrari. Unfortunately, he found the atmosphere and politics in the Scuderia not to his liking. It really affected his mindset, and therefore his performance. After being sacked by the team, he did a short stint at Jordan (two races) but found that his time at Ferrari affected his confidence. So he called a day on his F1 career.

I wouldn't necessarily call Jochen an "unfulfilled talent". He promised his wife that he would retire if he won the world championship so it's a real shame that he even stepped in the car at Monza.

Tommy is a bit of a character. I'm not sure of the validity of some of his claims.

Edit:

As for unfulfilled talents, I'm going to nominate Jan Magnussen. An absolute star in F3, Magnussen got to F1 and performed terribly.

Jan was a great driver and I wish he could've done better. Didn't be drive for Stewart GP? And does anyone know why Villenueve couldn't get a good seat after 1997?

 

[Bopop4]

They did? That's horrible. If he drivers fast, then why wouldnt you want him to drive for your team?

He didn't have the image that was required for an F1 champion.
He got off to a bad start when Ron said something about R&D and Tommy asked what that was...

 

[F1 fan]

Jan was a great driver and I wish he could've done better. Didn't be drive for Stewart GP? And does anyone know why Villenueve couldn't get a good seat after 1997?

But he just crumbled when he made it to F1. As for Jacques, he stayed with Williams for 1998. They had an uncompetitive engine and Jacques was disappointed that he wasn't given a car to challenge to retain his title. He then took the big money offer to join BAR. He also saw it as an opportunity to one up Schumacher by taking a new team to the top.

 

[nitrorocks]

And we see how it worked with BAR unfortunately...

 

[hawkeye122]

Jan Magnussen. Although he is currently making a name for himself in GTE, I think he turned in consistent results with Stewart GP. He could have been a bit more than he was..

 

[Northstar]

Mark Martin, one of the best drivers to never win anything really in NASCAR.

 

[hawkeye122]

Mark Martin, one of the best drivers to never win anything really in NASCAR.

How can you measure his greatness if he hasnt won anything?

 

[Northstar]

How can you measure his greatness if he hasnt won anything?

He has 40 wins, just none of them happen to be major races, he has also finished 2nd in the championship standings 5 times.

 

[SagarisGTB]

I'd say Gilles Villeneuve, because he died before he could win (hopefully several) championships.

Would he have though? I know the special stories, but did he have the speed for a championship? He was beaten comprehensively by Reutemann and then was evenly matched with Scheckter (who won the title as his teammate) and Pironi, who are not viewed as all-time greats. It was obviously before my time, by his F1 resume looks unremarkable.

 

[F1 fan]

He has 40 wins, just none of them happen to be major races, he has also finished 2nd in the championship standings 5 times.

Even though certain races like Daytona are "special" races, they're no more difficult than the rest of the races on the calendar. Yes, he may not have won a "big event" but he did win many races in the highest tier of Nascar.

 

[Seismica]

Robert Kubica. I doubt he will be the same when/if he returns to F1, which is a shame considering he was held in such high regard.

 

[DrKronin]

Felipe Massa - almost was world champion. The next season he took a spring to the head.

This. He really hasn't been the same. Every time I see an in-car view of him, it seems like he's having throttle control issues, but then again, this year's Ferrari isn't all that great, no matter how well Alonso does in it.

 

[GTPorsche]

Mark Martin isn't an "unfulfilled talent".

Sure he hasn't won any of the "major races", but multiple runner up in the championship, multiple Busch Series championships, and up until last year he had the record for most wins in that series.

Unfulfilled talents don't get called "The best driver to not win a championship".

 

[Roush_fan_99]

Mark Martin, one of the best drivers to never win anything really in NASCAR.

I saw this thread and immediately thought of Mark Martin, he has always been my favorite NASCAR driver but this is the first thing that comes to mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eJawR3pTlg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I was so incredibly in shock it took me quite awhile to get over it and move on, and it still gets me every time I watch it.…………

 

[daan]

Ivan Capelli ...

As for unfulfilled talents, I'm going to nominate Jan Magnussen. An absolute star in F3, Magnussen got to F1 and performed terribly.

That was 2 of mine.

Another, in the same way as Magnussen's "brilliant in lower formulae, crap higher up" mould, was JJ Lehto.

 

[Liquid]

That was 2 of mine.

Another, in the same way as Magnussen's "brilliant in lower formulae, crap higher up" mould, was JJ Lehto.

Lehto did surprisingly well for Dallara/Scuderia Italia and Sauber, but it's his time with Benetton that were grossly underwhelming.

Speaking of Finns, Mika Salo perhaps? We all know how well he did in 1999 but never really got a crack at the top and this is despite consistent performances for Tyrrell (5th place at Monaco when Tyrrell were really at the back) and Arrows. I was surprised he was dropped by Toyota.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

He has 40 wins, just none of them happen to be major races, he has also finished 2nd in the championship standings 5 times.

That's like saying if all Trevor Bayne wins is the Daytona 500 his rookie year, that he accomplished more than Martin. Mark Martin is a significant figure in nascar, championship or not he was a key driver to make Jack Roush the well known man he is today Jeff Burton as well. Jeff Burton is more unfulfilled to me.

I don't think he really compares to other drivers that were truely unfufilled, like Davey Allison.

As far as F1 goes, I'd say Timo Glock.

 

[Ardius]

Jarno Trulli/Toyota in general - could have won races, maybe even a championship, never did.

Stefan Bellof - no explanation needed.

Olivier Panis - never the same after his accident in 1997, could have potentially won more races.

Juan Pablo Montoya - really should have won a F1 WDC.

Martin Donnelly - an accident cut short a bright future.
Johnny Herbert - kind of the same for him too as he always had trouble with his legs.

 

[Liquid]

Jarno Trulli/Toyota in general - could have won races, maybe even a championship, never did.

Trulli was in Alonso's shade at Renault and didn't fufil his potential, true. And he did well in the 1997 Prost because it was a Ligier for all intents and purposes, and Ligier had good cars towards the end, but Prost's own cars were dismal.

But I never thought Toytoa were unfufilled. They had a big budget and simply failed to deliver. Mediocrity, rather than untapped talent not rising to the top. By which point Trulli was stagnating and past his peak, which was a shame.

Stefan Bellof - no explanation needed.

Definitely.

Olivier Panis - never the same after his accident in 1997, could have potentially won more races.

Also agreed. 1997 Spanish Grand Prix? He could have very feasably caught Villeneuve and won had Irvine not blocked him for so long. Always did well in the Ligier years, but he was never as on the pace after his crash. As alluded to with Trulli above, Prost building their own cars 1998 onwards didn't help, because they were rubbish.

Juan Pablo Montoya - really should have won a F1 WDC.

Unfufilled in F1? Maybe. But we're talking generally and he's done very well elsewhere so I'd say he has fufilled his potential overall.

Martin Donnelly - an accident cut short a bright future.

Unsure how bright his future was, but you wouldn't wish his career ending crash on anyone.

Johnny Herbert - kind of the same for him too as he always had trouble with his legs.

Sort of disagree. 3 time Grand Prix winner and winner of the 1991 Le Mans 24 Hours isn't too bad. He had his peaks, but I'd say that his crash probably kept him from staying at the top.

 

[Hun200kmh]

A bit of an old timer like myself has to go with guys like Clay Regazzoni, Carlos Reutemann, Michele Alboreto, Elio de Angelis and Ronnie Peterson. I wouldn't say Gilles Villeneuve fits this category, his short career didn't provide a WDC or that many wins. But with Gilles I'd say both the WDC and the number of wins aren't really needed. He was the way he was without the need of support statistics.

 

[Ardius]

Trulli was in Alonso's shade at Renault and didn't fufil his potential, true. And he did well in the 1997 Prost because it was a Ligier for all intents and purposes, and Ligier had good cars towards the end, but Prost's own cars were dismal.

But I never thought Toytoa were unfufilled. They had a big budget and simply failed to deliver. Mediocrity, rather than untapped talent not rising to the top. By which point Trulli was stagnating and past his peak, which was a shame.

Unfufilled in F1? Maybe. But we're talking generally and he's done very well elsewhere so I'd say he has fufilled his potential overall.

Sort of disagree. 3 time Grand Prix winner and winner of the 1991 Le Mans 24 Hours isn't too bad. He had his peaks, but I'd say that his crash probably kept him from staying at the top.

Trulli had the measure of Alonso for much of their time at Renault...he then moved to Toyota and almost won their first race in 2005. After their 2005 season, they really should have been able to build on their form and fight for the title especially with the budget they had.

Then it almost happened again in 2009 - several front row starts even a front row lockout in Bahrain, but they regularly screwed up strategy and failed to make the most of the advantage they started with as well as being unable to develop the car.

I think Trulli could have been a WDC in the right circumstances and given a top team drive but sadly for him he never really got the chance.

Montoya is an un-fulfilled talent in F1. Almost all of the drivers that have been mentioned or are going to be mentioned in this thread had success in different motorsport series - so don't start getting all "well that doesn't suit my definition". For example, according to you, Stefan Bellof isn't an un-fulfilled talent then as he achieved quite a bit of success in both touring cars and sports cars as well as junior single seater formula. But then you agree with me anyway on Bellof but not on Montoya.

Same applies for Herbert. Sure he did win races and even Le Mans. But I feel he could have done even better were it not for his injury.

An "unfulfilled talent" doesn't necessarily have to mean drivers that didn't win, it can also mean drivers who won but should/could have achieved more than that. I think you are confusing unfulfilled with "unsuccessful".