Motorsports unfulfilled talents

  • Thread starter Thread starter nitrorocks
  • 114 comments
  • 8,692 views
Call it Ayrton Senna Syndrome, but Stefan Bellof is dead and was just 27 when he died. He could have gone on to much more than he had achieved at the time of his death.

Montoya is 36, alive and will continue to race for many more years to come. He's done alright overall, but I agree that he could have done more in F1.
 
But your supposed definition doesn't make sense still. Bellof did achieve quite a bit of success in other series, just not in F1. As did Montoya, Herbert..many drivers.
Yet you swap and change which ones you agree with and which ones you don't - which just proves your definition doesn't apply. We are inevitably going to talk mostly about drivers who were pretty damn good and some of them actually will have achieved success somewhere in motorsport, just not the success we believe they should have achieved.
We are hardly going to be talking about random karters who never got anywhere past karting are we? We're going to be talking about pretty famous drivers who did ultimately get somewhere between junior level racing and international racing success. So its only natural several drivers will have actually achieved success - sometimes the early success is what convinces us to believe they could/should have achieved more.

Its all rather subjective anyway because naturally some of us are going to be reading more into some drivers' respective talents than others. Some people seem incapable of reading past statistics and results anyway so I fully expect people to disagree on this subject.
I'm also sure that some of us will have witnessed several drivers in person who we felt clearly had talent but for whatever reason never got the chance - its difficult for people to agree with that just looking back on the results.
 
Very true. It's always interesting to hear the other people's opinions on different drivers.

What about Giancarlo Fisichella? He moved to Benetton when they were enterting their twilight years and if he was alongside either Hill or Frentzen for 1999 we could have seen him win his first race a lot sooner. Benetton > Dying Jordan > Sauber was 7 seasons 1998-2004. We can only speculate what he could have done with really competative machinery. Granted, there was the win in Brazil but that was not a true showing of the Jordan's competence and apart from that it was a smattering of podiums for Benetton.

Then came Renault. What a start! Winning the opening round of 2005. Then came 3 consecutive DNFs. Consistently in the points but just one more win would happen during those three seasons.

Enterting the veteran stage of his career, we know he did a decent job at Force India, topped off by the brilliant pole and 2nd place at Spa. And then, Ferrari. Not the best car, and not the flattering finish to his career that he would have wanted. 0 points for the Prancing Horse.

I liked Fisichella, he was quite exciting to watch but somehow, it never quite worked out. He had his most competative machinery at Renault in 2005-06 but couldn't quite make it work. A reasonable shout for unfufilled talent, I'd say.
 
I'd be tempted to mention Robert Kubica, and really hope that I'm proven wrong and he does make a return. I just can't see it happening though.
 
Lehto did surprisingly well for Dallara/Scuderia Italia and Sauber, but it's his time with Benetton that were grossly underwhelming.

He had a major accident in pre-season testing, which broke his neck so that he wasn't able to take part in couple of first races. Accident was very severe, he was lucky to survive it. Then he was put back into the car too soon after the accident. Iirc, he's hinted the matter that his neck was far from okay at the time, but he was given an assumption, that it's better for his career to get back to track than miss more events. Even though the recovery wasn't ready until 1 year after the accident.

In the come back race weekend first his good friend Ratzenberger lost his life, then in the race he stalls in the start and Pedro Lamy crashes into him, which didn't help with the neck. On top of that, also Senna lost his life. It tear him apart mentally. All this at the time when Benetton and Flavio were putting all their efforts for Schumacher's car. Some politics and many very unfortunate incidents. So personally I would definitely pick him up for this category.
 
A bit of an old timer like myself has to go with guys like Clay Regazzoni, Carlos Reutemann, Michele Alboreto, Elio de Angelis and Ronnie Peterson. I wouldn't say Gilles Villeneuve fits this category, his short career didn't provide a WDC or that many wins. But with Gilles I'd say both the WDC and the number of wins aren't really needed. He was the way he was without the need of support statistics.

Carlos Reutemann!! Did you know he was governor of his native province of Santa Fe for several years?
Could have won with Ferrari, but didn't. Williams was his best shot but ignoring pit order and winning over Alan Jones? Not a very smart move...
 
What about Gene or Justin Wilson? Both great drivers on their day, just never really got the chance in a higher team.
 
Carlos Reutemann!! Did you know he was governor of his native province of Santa Fe for several years?
Could have won with Ferrari, but didn't. Williams was his best shot but ignoring pit order and winning over Alan Jones? Not a very smart move...

I knew he had a political career later in life but didn't know the details. El Lole was a great driver, one of the greatest even throughout the seventies, but was very unlucky in several occasions. Stayed at Ferrari in 1978 (partnering Villeneuve, after Lauda left) only to be beaten by the ground effect Lotuses (he was 3rd in that WDC title fight I think). Than he switched to Lotus in 1979, the year the title went back to ... Ferrari (Scheckter).

Then Williams. 1980 he sees Alan Jones get the title. 1981 he was better than Jones but Jones was Patrick Head's favourite and neither forgave him the rebellion against team orders early in the season. To the end, Carlos broke down in the last race, losing the title to Piquet by one point. A pity.

Regarding F1, everyone remembers Moss when we talk about great drivers without a WDC. I also remember Reutemann, one of the greatest of his era.
 
Jean Alesi- Went with his heart to Ferrari, not with his head which would've taken him to Williams and the possibility of world titles.

Pedro Rodriguez- Successful in sportscars and some success in F1, had he not died at the Norisring I think he could've done more in F1. The best wet weather driver ever.
 
That's like saying if all Trevor Bayne wins is the Daytona 500 his rookie year, that he accomplished more than Martin. Mark Martin is a significant figure in nascar, championship or not he was a key driver to make Jack Roush the well known man he is today Jeff Burton as well. Jeff Burton is more unfulfilled to me.

I don't think he really compares to other drivers that were truely unfufilled, like Davey Allison.

As far as F1 goes, I'd say Timo Glock.

Sorry, but I still feel Martin's talent has been unfulfilled, more or less the same way Dan Marino's talent went unfulfilled in the NFL, he has all kinds of accolades but not that one career defining achievement like Elway, Aikman, Brady etc. have. He has been close so many times to winning both the championship and 500 but has come up short several times, he has the amount of talent where he should have multiple's of each.

Jeff Burton isn't as unfulfilled in my eyes, his highest points finish was 3rd, once.
 
MazdaPrice
Call it Ayrton Senna Syndrome, but Stefan Bellof is dead and was just 27 when he died. He could have gone on to much more than he had achieved at the time of his death.

Montoya is 36, alive and will continue to race for many more years to come. He's done alright overall, but I agree that he could have done more in F1.

Yes, Bellof is a big one unfortunately. Also, I haven't heard anyone say Martin Brundle.
 
Also, I haven't heard anyone say Martin Brundle.

Brundle was very talented. Early class success in the BSCC and his duels with Senna in F3 set the tone for a great career, especially his success in sports car racing. World Champion in 1988.

But then there's Formula One. Undoubtedly one of the 'best of the rest' of his time, he had just one season with a competative car; Benetton in 1992. He kept pace with early Schumacher. But then he was dropped in favour of Riccardo Patrese. I'm convinced that if Brundle was with Benetton in 1993 he would have gotten even more podiums, and if he was to have stayed even longer at Benetton during their peak 94/95 years, he almost certainly would have won a race. As it was, he was at the right place at the wrong time; McLaren, 1994. Bad move. We all know what that Peugeot engine was like tha year... A competative midfield Ligier in 1995 was interrupted by having to rotate with Suzuki to keep Mugen happy. And then a final season with Jordan.

Heh, it's very much a case of what might have been with Brundle. Fortunately his name has not been forgotten and resonates throughout the F1 anglosphere thanks to his expert commentary. And then there are the gridwalks...
 
Brundle didn't exactly do bad, he had success in sportscars. A Le Mans and Daytona 24 win.
 
Brundle didn't exactly do bad, he had success in sportscars. A Le Mans and Daytona 24 win.

But within Formula One, he's a big what if. He had a horrible crash in his debut season in 1984, so did very well throughout the rest of his career all things considered. Gave Zakspeed their only F1 points.

A crash at the start of his F1 career and also infamously at the end of his career. He was incredibly lucky to walk away from this unscathed. This was 1996 and the car actually broke in half.

Looking up the crash I found some shots I've never seen before

Brundleclose_gallery__600x345.jpg


Martin_Brundle_1451284c.jpg


Martin+Brundle+crash.jpg


6485.jpg


Brundlewalks_gallery__600x397.jpg
 
The most awesome part about that is the fact that he jumped in the spare car 5 minutes later.
 
I'll add to the Gilles Villeneuve and Robert Kubica but I'd also like to argue Ayrton Senna. Had he stayed at Williams through to 1997 he would certainly have won more championships and who knows after that.
 
Kimi Raikkonen only has 1 f1 championship which he won by the hair on his chinny chin chin.... We'll see how the lotus goes...arguably he should be up to 3 right now because be Mclarens kept breaking down and now Alonso has 2.

KUBICA!!!!!!!!!!
 
Had he stayed at Williams through to 1997 he would certainly have won more championships and who knows after that.

Debateable. He was 33 when he died. Wouldn't be that far off retiring. Plus having won 3 championships I doubt he qualifies as 'unfufilled'.
 
From the few motorsports I watch religiously, I'd argue for Jean Alesi, Gilles Villeneuve, Jochen Rindt, Paul Radisich, Anthony Reid, Steve Soper and Stirling Moss. Oh, and Francois Cevert.

I'll come back with reasons later.

And here they are.

Jean Alesi

What can you say? As has often been said about Alesi, his heart took him to Ferrari when his head should have taken him to Williams. Always an exciting talent during his prime, it was so unfortunate that he was at the wrong place at the right time. The fact that he did so well in some of those Ferraris (1991, 1992) is testament to his skill. One pole position; Italy 1994 in front of the tifosi. The drama behind that on the VHS review is epic. And of course, that fantastic victory in 1995. Jean's 31st birthday. And Ferrari #27 won at Circuit de Gilles Villeneuve. Hollywood eat your heart out. These final two years at Ferrari 94-95 saw some very impressive drives. Even in his later years he was a steady pilot for Sauber during their difficult turn of the century period and then Prost. He was closer to the midfield whereas Heidfeld and Mazzacane were rooted amongst the Minardis in awful cars such as the AP03.

A very unfufilled talent in my honest opinion.

Gilles Villeneuve

Ayrton Senna with Ayrton Senna Syndrome before Senna. I don't think I can add anything to the unique legacy Villeneuve has amongst the F1 community.

Jochen Rindt

Written very highly of in Jackie Stewart's book, and the footage I have seen of him has been very impressive. Taken far too soon aged just 28 and to actually become a posthumous world champion with 4 races left is a staggering statistic.

Francois Cevert

Another driver in the Villeneuve mould but at the very beginning of his career. The 1973 Tyrrell was equally matched by his skills and thanks to 1970s track safety we have Watkins Glen to thank for taking this promising driver away.

Stirling Moss

The king who was never crowned. I've loved this phrase ever since I saw it caption a photo of Moss at Monaco in 1961 in an old F1 encyclopedia I had. Did everything right in 1958, but Ferrari and team orders saw the title go to Hawthorn. Then of course there are races such as the 1955 British Grand Prix and the 1961 Monaco Grand Prix. He deserved much more than the ignominaty of being arguably the best race winner to have never been champion.

Paul Radisich

And now onto the touring cars. Of all the drivers who I felt deserved a title, Radisich is right up there. A hugely talented driver and I'm certain that his loyalty to Ford cost him. The Mondeo only had an 18 month period from its introduction where it was genuinely competative. Had me moved to say, Renault, in 1995 and partnered Alain Menu during the period when the Laguna was the best car over an extended period of time, we can only foam at the mouth about how that could have gone. A huge disappointment in 1998 was the Peugeot. Always the weakest super tourer mechanically despite being the best looking, the final year of the 406 was a huge disaster for the superb on-paper line up of Radisich and Harvey. Moving to V8s was a completely different kettle of fish and he adapted remarkably well at first, finishing 4th in 2000 (I think) for DJR and cruely missing out on a Bathurst victory thanks to a puncture. Radisich is like the touring car Rubens Barrichello; hugely talented, but with less victories and accolades than those talents deserve.

Anthony Reid

Took Nissan to exceptional heights in 1998 and I'm still not quite sure how he lost the title at the final meeting in 2000. Took the fight against Vauxhall bravely and quite successfully with the MG and is someone else who I would not have begrudged a BTC championship. He was signed for a Jordan race seat in 1993 but sponsorship let him down. His career could have been so different.

Steve Soper

A highly successful touring car driver wherever he drove, but especially in Germany. Actually won the BSCC in 1983 but all Rovers were subsequently deemed illegal and were disqualified from the championship standings. Surprisingly sporadic in the BTCC but was always mighty impressive when he did drive. Infamy sees him blamed for the incident with Cleland in 1992 but there are other factors in that incident which should apportion blame to both drivers. Exceptional talent, but contractual obligations to race in Germany and later Japan prevented him from seriously competing in the BTCC and I think this cost him dearly.

---

You may notice that drivers who I never saw race have much less written about them. Well.. that's just how it is.
 
Last edited:
Greg Moore. He was killed in a champ car race at Fontana in 1999. He was going to be the next best driver for Penske in 2000, but since he died, that's how Helio Castroneves got his start driving for Penske.
 
John Hopkins
In his first year in MotoGP he was riding a 2-Stroke with almost everyone else on 4-Strokes.
Then he went to Suzuki which had horrible bikes and then to Kawasaki, which also had horrible bikes. If he had been riding an RC211V then he probably could've won a race.

Wayne Rainey
That crash stopped him from getting at least 1 more world title, if not several more as he was at his peak.
 
Kubica, Montoya, Bourdais, Trulli, Glock, Barrichelo all had poor luck in F1, but the biggest unfulfilled talent there was.... Marco Simoncelli, no doubt in my mind he would have been World Champion.:(
 
Kubica, Montoya, Bourdais, Trulli, Glock, Barrichelo all had poor luck in F1, but the biggest unfulfilled talent there was.... Marco Simoncelli, no doubt in my mind he would have been World Champion.:(

I agree, what an awesome rider, there will never be another Marco.
 
Back