Mr. Bond, Your Esprit Is Ready

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Lotus has since officially deinied that this is the real Esprit, but new photos and information has come up, and some are saying that this is in fact again the new Esprit. But, it gets more interresting. Check this:

R8 (for comparison)
audi_r8_5.jpg


(R8 for comparison)
audi_r8_rear_400x215.jpg


(new picture of speculated Esprit replacement)


I'm not joking, it's as if it were a rebodied Audi R8. There's no denying the similarities within the rear taillight and vent lines, then the side intake that reaches above the c-pillar, then in addition to that, the pillars and sill lines are identical. Someone is definitely using an R8 as a testbed. If this is 90% of what the Esprit will look like, **** will hit the fan with Audi and their fanboys.
 
Actually, the top picture is the Audi R8 while the picture below is the Audi Le Mans concept car ;) And the third looks more like A Lamborghini Diablo or something to me :odd:
 
That first car looks like a bad customization of the R8, but how can Lotus deny such a thing? It has to
be an Espirit!

EDIT: I didn't know the R8 had a single taillight...
 
Bah, it was a comparison picture. The top two are Audis, the third is the test mule "Lotus" Sorry for the confusion.

Looking at it closer, I doubt the "Lotus" is an R8, but Lotus's design team has some working to do to difer itslef from the existing R8. Here's a fair comparison.



edot - 2 things:

E, then an S, P, then straight to the R, followed by the I and T

Spells out Esprit, es-pree, not Espirit, es-spirit.

Also, it's been again confirmed that the car pictured isn't a Lotus. The pictures were taken in The Netherlands, hence the plates and autoblog.nl source, and there was apparently some affiliation with the company Koni, whose building can be seen in the very picture. Sorry for bringing this all back again, but fortunately, this isn't the Lotus we're looking for. So far, we've only got the three set of pictures of the new car with an old Esprit body on it. (UK AU05 plates)

But is it a coincidence that this R8-esque (longer, just long enough to house another set of cylinders) car is running around the Koni facotry, from which Lamborghini and Audi both get their shocks?
 
The funny thing is Im now hearing rumours from reliable sources that the BMW engine is gonna be out the window, and theres a good possibility of it being a audi V8. This could be VAG's first RWD car in ages?

Specs as I hear them is.

1200-1300kg
400-480hp
MR layout

Very interesting. I hope it is running the R8 chassis. On another not, the updated gallardo will be upgrading to some of the R8's rear suspension setup. I wonder if Lamborghini will still bother making a lightweight, RWD gallardo.
 
Famine
When you think about including those words in a post, stop typing and click somewhere else.
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The news came from a publication.

However on GCF there are two BMW insiders, and one audi insider. Theres a reason why people like me know alot more about whats happening when and how than magazines.
 
Poverty
The news came from a publication.

However on GCF there are two BMW insiders, and one audi insider. Theres a reason why people like me know alot more about whats happening when and how than magazines.
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Then name the publication, post scans of the article and/or link to the threads on GCF; its not as if its difficult to do so.

I also can't recall a single incident when you have provided information that was not already in the public domain that has been proven correct, rumour and speculation is a very different thing.

Scaff
 
Poverty
Very interesting. I hope it is running the R8 chassis. On another not, the updated gallardo will be upgrading to some of the R8's rear suspension setup. I wonder if Lamborghini will still bother making a lightweight, RWD gallardo.
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Wouldn't that completely undermine their VVA format?
 
Scaff
Then name the publication, post scans of the article and/or link to the threads on GCF; its not as if its difficult to do so.

I also can't recall a single incident when you have provided information that was not already in the public domain that has been proven correct, rumour and speculation is a very different thing.

Scaff
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The thing is its in one of numerous audi threads that are absolutely pages long. They dont make seperate topics for info like this, I usually read about it when they go slighly off topic in a thread, and therefore I have so much difficulty then finding those sources again. Thats why I never post sources with alot of things I should because I will be forever looking for it.

On the R8 I posted a list of things it would have.

No magazine had those reports, and some of the things I said it would do was opposite to magazines. I (or better still my sources) were correct.
 
Famine
What, apprentice plumbers?
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Not car enthusiasts. There have been cases where magazines have actually taken stuff from my sources and put it word for word in their magazines. Infact there was one case were one publication even gave credit to my source, using his online username.
 
Yes and my goal down the park was shown on Match of The Day.


Goddamn Poverty you can't just say stuff like that with no evidence.
 
Poverty
Magazines do it with no evidence so why cant I? And I believe I just did ;)
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Magazines will clearly say if something is rumour or speculation and do not post it as fact, very, very different to yourself.

Automotive magazines have also built up contacts over the years and quite frankly have far more credability that you do.

Scaff
 
Scaff
Magazines will clearly say if something is rumour or speculation and do not post it as fact, very, very different to yourself.

Automotive magazines have also built up contacts over the years and quite frankly have far more credability that you do.

Scaff
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No I didnt post it like a fact at all.

poverty
Im now hearing rumours from reliable sources....
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Magazines get things wrong all the time. I dont buy magazines anymore. Internets better.
 
Poverty
No I didnt post it like a fact at all.
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I don't believe I was citing a single incident, rather a trend you have displayed and been questioned on many tines.


Poverty
Magazines get things wrong all the time. I dont buy magazines anymore. Internets better.
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Stunning piece of logic that, so the internet is never wrong is it?

http://www.xanga.com/jakatta

I look forward to you citing this guy as a source in future then, he also claims to be a motor industry insider and as its on the internet must be more accurate than magazines (which are regulated in the UK - unlike the web).


:dunce:

Scaff
 
Poverty
The funny thing is Im now hearing rumours from reliable sources that the BMW engine is gonna be out the window, and theres a good possibility of it being a audi V8. This could be VAG's first RWD car in ages
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Well with VAG buying Proton, and as a result a controling stake in Lotus, that wouldn't suprise me. However I do think a BMW V8 would be far more suitable in character for a supercar like the Esprit. Audi V8's are more placid in nature, BMW V8's are more "I'll rip your throat out, I'm going to die screaminig" engines. If they can get that sort of character ou of an Audi V8 that'd be great, but I'm yet to see one on a road car that shouts out loud that it's raw performance.

Very interesting. I hope it is running the R8 chassis. On another not, the updated gallardo will be upgrading to some of the R8's rear suspension setup. I wonder if Lamborghini will still bother making a lightweight, RWD gallardo.
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My god I hope not. I think Evan put it as well as anyone can.

ExigeExcel
Wouldn't that completely undermine their VVA format?
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Yes it would, and if VAG decide to turn away from that for Lotus' premium car, then VAG are not going to be doing Lotus any favours. All VAG should do is give Lotus cash and let them sort themselves out with the engineering. If Lotus want to borrow parts, let Lotus pick them. But I'm pretty sure, the last thing they would want to borrow, would be a chassis.
 
live4speed
Well with VAG buying Proton, and as a result a controling stake in Lotus, that wouldn't suprise me. However I do think a BMW V8 would be far more suitable in character for a supercar like the Esprit. Audi V8's are more placid in nature, BMW V8's are more "I'll rip your throat out, I'm going to die screaminig" engines. If they can get that sort of character ou of an Audi V8 that'd be great, but I'm yet to see one on a road car that shouts out loud that it's raw performance.

My god I hope not. I think Evan put it as well as anyone can.
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Show me a BMW V8 in a roadcar thats better than the 4.2 V8 FSI tuned to 420hp and I will agree. I dont think BMW will outdo that engine till the M3 debuts with is rumoured 8500 rpm redline. Even then I dont think that engine will be a better overall engine, just better for sporting applications.

But I'm pretty sure, the last thing they would want to borrow, would be a chassis.
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Why?

I don't believe I was citing a single incident, rather a trend you have displayed and been questioned on many tines.
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Then why mention it, seeing as I never did do so this time?
 
Poverty
Why?
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Possibly because Lotus are generally regarded as one of the finest chassis design and development companies on the face of the planet, a company that the major companies still to this day go to for assistance. A company that has been responsible for some of the most important developments and innovations in both road and race car chassis's ever.

Don't get me wrong, they could certainly get a lot from VAG (certainly in the area of reliability and production methodology), but chassis know how is quite unlikely to be one of them.

Just 'google' Lotus Backbone Chassis for a very quick idea of what I am talking about, and don't be under any illusions that they have ever slacked off in this particular area. Lotus Engineering Consultancy do for the area of chassis development and set-up what Al Mellings does for engine development.

Regards

Scaff
 
Scaff is spot on.

Poverty
Show me a BMW V8 in a roadcar thats better than the 4.2 V8 FSI tuned to 420hp and I will agree. I dont think BMW will outdo that engine till the M3 debuts with is rumoured 8500 rpm redline. Even then I dont think that engine will be a better overall engine, just better for sporting applications.
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First of all, I never said better. I talked exclusively about character, and the character of BMW's engines is far more suitable to sportscars and supercars than Auidi's engines which have always had more of a lazy, I'm getting out of bed character to them in comparison to BMW's I'm fast and don't you all know it, character that comes out of performance oriented BMW's. Sure the Audi engines can be just as quick, powerful, reliable or whatever else. But I don't care about that. I could have a more reliable car than either of the cars I currently own, but I don't want a Honda Jazz. As for great BMW V8's, the last gen M5 V8 was one of the best engines ever made. And yes I consider it to be fantastic even compared to todays engines and it could easilly produce 400-500bhp. Also the new BMW V8 is likely going to be even better.
 
Scaff
Possibly because Lotus are generally regarded as one of the finest chassis design and development companies on the face of the planet, a company that the major companies still to this day go to for assistance. A company that has been responsible for some of the most important developments and innovations in both road and race car chassis's ever.

Don't get me wrong, they could certainly get a lot from VAG (certainly in the area of reliability and production methodology), but chassis know how is quite unlikely to be one of them.

Just 'google' Lotus Backbone Chassis for a very quick idea of what I am talking about, and don't be under any illusions that they have ever slacked off in this particular area. Lotus Engineering Consultancy do for the area of chassis development and set-up what Al Mellings does for engine development.

Regards

Scaff
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When I think of Al Melling, I think of fast and powerful engined cars that are unreliable. This could be because I only know of him having designed TVR's engines. What else has he designed?

As for the backbone chassis I read that back when it was introduced it was the best thing since sliced bread, but that in this day and age its no longer number one.

There is a similair story to Elise's chassis, although its still more or less in contention as being a class leader. The technology behind it however didnt originate from Lotus.
 
Poverty
When I think of Al Melling, I think of fast and powerful engined cars that are unreliable. This could be because I only know of him having designed TVR's engines. What else has he designed?
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Al Melling has desinged and built more engines than anyone else, ever. He's also one of the key reasons Jaguar won LeMans 4 times on the trot. He's built everything from engines suitable for mass production cars, to Formula 1 engines to Rolls Royce engines. Most of his work has been signed off as intelectual property of whoever employed him for the work.

As for the backbone chassis I read that back when it was introduced it was the best thing since sliced bread, but that in this day and age its no longer number one.
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Right, and Lotus are still up there with thier modern technology.

There is a similair story to Elise's chassis, although its still more or less in contention as being a class leader. The technology behind it however didnt originate from Lotus.
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The chassis was designed and built with Lotus, hydro-allumnium were sourced to build it for production afterwards. The only reason hydro-alluminium were needed is beecause at the time they were one of the few companies who could manufacture and bond a chassis in such a way that it would be kpet so light (and no, VAG coudn't, were talking about something that was pretty revolutionary at the time needing specific tools and equpment car manufacturers wouldn't just happen to have on hand). And yes, the Elise is still a class leader, particualry the Exige. No matter what you may think Lotus are one of the most renowned chassis engineers in the world. Much like Al Melling is when it comes to engines.
 
Poverty
When I think of Al Melling, I think of fast and powerful engined cars that are unreliable. This could be because I only know of him having designed TVR's engines. What else has he designed?
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Mellings designs for the AJP engine series are actually quite well proven in reliability terms (the Tuscan race series cars using these engines suffered from comparatively few engine failures), production quality was a much bigger issue. AJP's rebuilt to Mellings spec's run very well indeed and its was principally his work that improved the reliability. Much of his current work is in consultancy for automotive and aero engines, speak to just about any engineer about him and you will hear nothing but praise.



Poverty
As for the backbone chassis I read that back when it was introduced it was the best thing since sliced bread, but that in this day and age its no longer number one.
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Given that the fundamental idea behind it is still to this day used in almost all areas of race and sports car design, I would still say that its got a bit of life left in it yet.



Poverty
There is a similair story to Elise's chassis, although its still more or less in contention as being a class leader. The technology behind it however didnt originate from Lotus.
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You seem to have a few bits of info mixed up here.

Lotus most certainly did originate the design of the Elise chassis, what they lacked (as no one had done it before for a car) was the know how to extrude the aluminium for the chassis and the actual early production work was farmed out.

Indeed, once you've been talked through the elegant aluminium chassis by Richard Rackham, senior design engineer and father of the project, any doubts about the wider significance of the Elise are dispelled.

Lotus has a world production first in the bonded and extruded chassis, and is likely to use it again in future lotus cars, including an eventual replacement for the Esprit. The idea is simple. The chassis is constructed from around 25 different aluminum extrusions which are bonded and riveted together to give a light, cheap-to-make, super-stiff construction that's easy to adapt to other uses.
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Source - http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/information/press/magazine/magazine1996/car2.html
http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/thecar/chassis/index.html

Lotus designed the methodology to bond the pieces and carried out all the development and testing.

Now keep in mind that this is just the public work carried out by Lotus, much of the work they carry out is not public domain and open to speculation, but given that they were also one of the earliest companies to work on cam-less engine technology as well I would image that VAG are quite keen to gett o know Lotus as well.

Regards

Scaff
 

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