Muscle cars in GT5

[marvz]

Hi guys,

Now am not that very familiar with muscle cars. As a matter of fact I was planning to learn more about them through GT5, particularly the classic muscle cars. I got myself a 1970 Dodge Challenger R/T, and boy what a looker. Brought it to Daytona and I now realize what's the purpose of these cars -- while it is very notorious for bad handling, it feels at home in an oval. As a matter of fact, it feels better than a German car in an oval!

But what struck me though is the top speed. My Challenger hits terminal velocity at 180kph! For a car to have much power, that's a pretty low top speed. Are all muscle cars in the past like that? High power with very low top speed?

 

[Hayden]

Unfortunately, all the classic muscle suffers from the sane problem. It comes down to the fact that most off them have 3 or 4 gears and were tuned in the factory for acceleration. I'd buy a fully customizable transmission and try to ignore the whine for the drastic increase in top speed.

I had huge fun in my Shelby GT350 on the daytona seasonal and still repeat the race for $

 

[marvz]

You mean to say that even in real life muscle cars suffer the same problem as well? I was beginning to think that Kaz somehow manipulated American cars here so Japanese cars can dominate..

 

[Tired Tyres]

I found it comical that my Cobra couldn't win the Daytona seasonal event because it ran into the rev limiter given how many horses it has.

I remember reading an article ages ago on a Dax Cobra (kit car copy) with a Jaguar V12 engine. It was geared for 201 MPH.

 

[marvz]

Wow strange then. Guess PD failed to actually copy the actual performance of the cars. First the brakes and now this....

 

[Rico_S]

Hi guys,

Now am not that very familiar with muscle cars. As a matter of fact I was planning to learn more about them through GT5, particularly the classic muscle cars. I got myself a 1970 Dodge Challenger R/T, and boy what a looker. Brought it to Daytona and I now realize what's the purpose of these cars -- while it is very notorious for bad handling, it feels at home in an oval. As a matter of fact, it feels better than a German car in an oval!

But what struck me though is the top speed. My Challenger hits terminal velocity at 180kph! For a car to have much power, that's a pretty low top speed. Are all muscle cars in the past like that? High power with very low top speed?

No doubt, I've driven most of stock 60-70s classic muscle in the game and their speed never gets above 200km/h.

That's the old taste of Americans.

 

[niky]

Wow strange then. Guess PD failed to actually copy the actual performance of the cars. First the brakes and now this....

What did they fail at? The brake problem is a problem of applying universal values for brake bias to all cars.

The top speed issue is simply because muscle cars had low top speeds compared to modern performance cars. Typically, muscle cars had top speeds in the 120-130 mph range... not the 155 mph range you see for 300+ hp cars today... because they didn't have the proper gearing or the proper aerodynamics for it.

The AC Cobra... what does it top out in GT5 at? In real life, top speed was around 150 mph - 160 mph, depending on the engine. The SC should be faster, but if I recall right, it's the coupe versions that have the higher top speeds...

 

[witham]

Wow strange then. Guess PD failed to actually copy the actual performance of the cars. First the brakes and now this....

Are you not listening, this is there top speed in real life it has nothing to do with making them look bad american muscle cars will only do this in real life. The car that does 201mph was a tuner car I though the fact it had a jag engine and was in a tuner magazine would have gave it away.

 

[CyKosis1973]

I found it comical that my Cobra couldn't win the Daytona seasonal event because it ran into the rev limiter given how many horses it has.

I remember reading an article ages ago on a Dax Cobra (kit car copy) with a Jaguar V12 engine. It was geared for 201 MPH.

If you put a FC tranny in a Cobra, the default speed is 200mph, so I guess that's about right then...

{Cy}
PS - Even with the default tranny, I still beat the Daytona event. It was tedious as hell constantly banging off the limiter and I was pissy as hell with myself for not checking first...

 

[shirakawaa]

The muscle cars featured in GT5 in real life had many axle gear choices available from factory. It looks like PD modeled the shortest ones they could fit, causing this low top speed problem.

Also in real life most of those cars didn't have a rev limiter, so there wasn't really a hard wall for top speed. The limit was the engine and how much one was willing to risk.
Most of the time engine power dropped much after its peak, so top speed was intrinsically limited (not just because of poor aerodynamics). In GT5 the rev limiter kicks in before that happens in most cases. This is a common problem for carburated cars in GT5.

At the very least PD should offer an option to change the final gear ratio only, so that users aren't forced to install a racing transmission and get all that gear whine covering engine and exhaust noise.

 

[iamjajo]

Those cars were designed to run from stop light to stop light or 1/4 mile races. That was what the market wanted, and the manufacturers responded.

I used to run mine at an 1/8th mile drag strip. You would rarely see speeds over 100mph in the 1/8th.

Lots of noise, great acceleration (for the time). And, they were inexpensive. I remember a bunch of guys bought Challengers and Cudas brand new for about $3000.

Later, the big 3 manufacturers got into Trans Am racing and things began changing in terms of top speeds and handling.

PS. Back then, I bought 4 Polyglass GT tires for about $200. I recently bought new tires for my M3 and they were $500 apiece.

 

[FishHunters]

The racing circuits in the US back then didn't have long staightaways. No La Sarthes. They didn't need to have high end speeds. The beauty of them are their sound, their acceleration and the skill needed to handle them. Handling them is also a big part of the fun. Try the new seasonal with one and make it slide around the corners. "Heaven!" PD needs to add "Classic Muscle" tracks in the future.

 

[iamjajo]

So, I looked up the specs for some popular UK machinery at the time. While they were much more expensive than the American muscle cars, the Triumph GT 6 and the MGB GT were popular sports cars. These cars were about 30-50% more expensive than something like a Mustang or GTO.

Their top speeds were about 105 MPH.

 

[Tired Tyres]

So, I looked up the specs for some popular UK machinery at the time. While they were much more expensive than the American muscle cars, the Triumph GT 6 and the MGB GT were popular sports cars. These cars were about 30-50% more expensive than something like a Mustang or GTO.

Their top speeds were about 105 MPH.

Err what? You're comparing those small underpowered cars to V8 Muscle cars?

 

[marvz]

Didn't notice that the Cobra is a modified one with a Jag engine. My apologies!

 

[Antonisbob]

My stock Shelby A/C Cobra does 158 then backs down. I won the seasonals with it

 

[maxpontiac]

When it comes to console racing titles, GT5's collection of 60-70's cars is unmatched to me.

All that is need is certain Pontiac GTO, and I would be all set.

The Judge.

 

[Tired Tyres]

When it comes to console racing titles, GT5's collection of 60-70's cars is unmatched to me.

All that is need is certain Pontiac GTO, and I would be all set.

The Judge.

Agreed. There are so many classics. If only they were all premiums, I don't think I'd drive anything else.

 

[maxpontiac]

Agreed. There are so many classics. If only they were all premiums, I don't think I'd drive anything else.

Now while having the Muscle cars all at premium level would be nice, it's not really necessary to me.

All I need is to have the ability to change the wheels on them.

I love turning the Premium Muscle into my version of Pro Touring monsters.

Factory exterior body, custom wheels, and everything else under the hood replaced.👍

 

[Nurburgthing.]

I remember reading an article ages ago on a Dax Cobra (kit car copy) with a Jaguar V12 engine. It was geared for 201 MPH.

More recently, this......

Supercharged Mercedes V12.

 

[Zenkat]

Did you know some of these same muscle cars in GT3 were drag limited and not gear limited? They topped out in the 130-140 range. I find it incredibly retarded to have the HP to go a lot faster and hit a limiter like that. There's no drag racing in GT5, so why the hell are all the muscle cars geared for it?

Those aren't the only cars they've messed up the gears on. In GT4, they couldn't get the gearing right in the SRT-4. In GT5, they actually made it worse. And i can't just fix the gears, i have to buy a full transmission with 6 gears, and the SRT-4's do not have 6 gears. I'm unsure how many other cars in the game have completely wrong gearing.

 

[witham]

Did you know some of these same muscle cars in GT3 were drag limited and not gear limited? They topped out in the 130-140 range. I find it incredibly retarded to have the HP to go a lot faster and hit a limiter like that. There's no drag racing in GT5, so why the hell are all the muscle cars geared for it?

Those aren't the only cars they've messed up the gears on. In GT4, they couldn't get the gearing right in the SRT-4. In GT5, they actually made it worse. And i can't just fix the gears, i have to buy a full transmission with 6 gears, and the SRT-4's do not have 6 gears. I'm unsure how many other cars in the game have completely wrong gearing.

They are geared for it in gt5 becuase they were geared for it in real life!!!

 

[Zenkat]

They are geared for it in gt5 becuase they were geared for it in real life!!!

Half-wrong. They had multiple gear options from the factory. My question is sound. Go back and re-read. These same cars were drag limited in previous GTs. Why the change-up?

 

[Jaydub757]

I can get my '70 Dodge Challenger 440 R/T up to 215 no problem same with a few of my other muscle cars. Buy the FC tranny and tweak the gears, top speed and final gear individually.

 

[GTP_FastM3]

The muscle cars featured in GT5 in real life had many axle gear choices available from factory. It looks like PD modeled the shortest ones they could fit, causing this low top speed problem.

Also in real life most of those cars didn't have a rev limiter, so there wasn't really a hard wall for top speed. The limit was the engine and how much one was willing to risk.
Most of the time engine power dropped much after its peak, so top speed was intrinsically limited (not just because of poor aerodynamics). In GT5 the rev limiter kicks in before that happens in most cases. This is a common problem for carburated cars in GT5.

At the very least PD should offer an option to change the final gear ratio only, so that users aren't forced to install a racing transmission and get all that gear whine covering engine and exhaust noise.

Exactly

I was a big fan of muscle cars in my youth. I owned a '74 Cuda and had friends with others. There were many cars with a 4.11 rear end that would be similar to those in GT5, but you could get many different ratios from factory, and it was quite a simple job to change the ring and pinion gear and change the ratio. The majority of muscle cars on the road actually had 3.xx gears as most people didn't want the car buzzing at 3500+ RPM's at highway speed. Some even had ratios <3.xx.

 

[Zenkat]

Exactly

I was a big fan of muscle cars in my youth. I owned a '74 Cuda and had friends with others. There were many cars with a 4.11 rear end that would be similar to those in GT5, but you could get many different ratios from factory, and it was quite a simple job to change the ring and pinion gear and change the ratio. The majority of muscle cars on the road actually had 3.xx gears as most people didn't want the car buzzing at 3500+ RPM's at highway speed. Some even had ratios <3.xx.

I actually did some investigating today and if you buy a full trans for a car, you can then go back and check on the gear ratio and final ratio of the stock trans. I discovered a couple of cars with 3.89 gears (69 Camaro, 67 Cougar for example), and a couple with 4.10's (70 Charger, 71 Cuda, 70 Chevelle).

I noticed the 64 GTO had very low top speed, so I investigated that one thoroughly with the help of a website that has all the options available for that year of car. According to PD, they put in the base motor (325hp), with a 4 speed transmission (not close ratio). The gear ratios are dead on for all 4 gears, just as they were from the factory. The problem is, PD put in a final gear of 4.00.... ? The highest gear you could get with that engine and trans from the factory was a 3.55, with a few more even lower than that (3.08, 3.23).

The only muscle cars that seem to be pretty well done are the premium ones. I do wish we could just change the final gear on any car without buying that stupid whining transmission. It ruins the sound of every car...

 

[themartlab]

The Corvette convertible from the premium dealership have a top speed of 241kph with stock 4 gears gearbox.

 

[shirakawaa]

The Corvette convertible from the premium dealership have a top speed of 241kph with stock 4 gears gearbox.

If I remember correctly (can't run the game right now), compared to most other Standard muscle cars, you can also rev it up much higher, way past the indicated redline. This contributes to the higher top speed.

 

[themartlab]

If I remember correctly (can't run the game right now), compared to most other Standard muscle cars, you can also rev it up much higher, way past the indicated redline. This contributes to the higher top speed.

True that it can rev higher than the redline indicated.

 

[witham]

I wish that gt5 had options, like ratios and other stuff!